Gulfstream4 said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

Mountains of slime from this guy, his clown VP and his supporters.

#daGobbler fully supports sending this funding to the Ukraine war front, he's an advocate then and continues to be one now.

This sand slug sunning on the shore while Americans fight for their lives after Hurricane Helene.

Don’t forget: Biden/Harris cabal sends $232 MILLION to the Ukraine every single day.

While Americans flounder. pic.twitter.com/OlFTf3fr2o

— James Woods (@RealJamesWoods) September 30, 2024

---

Can you imagine being dumb enough to actually vote for more of this?

---

Ah shore can.

Werewolf said:

---

Mountains of slime from this guy, his clown VP and his supporters.

#daGobbler fully supports sending this funding to the Ukraine war front, he's an advocate then and continues to be one now.

---

No, I'm an advocate for Ukraine winning the war, which by the way continues to negatively impact Russia. Please show me where it's an either/or proposition with funding for disaster relief?

hokiewolf said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

Mountains of slime from this guy, his clown VP and his supporters.

#daGobbler fully supports sending this funding to the Ukraine war front, he's an advocate then and continues to be one now.

---

No, I'm an advocate for Ukraine winning the war, which by the way continues to negatively impact Russia. Please show me where it's an either/or proposition with funding for disaster relief?

---

I'm all for Ukraine kicking the snot out of Russia. But why do we need to fund it. We have our own issues that need to be a higher priority. Hell FEMA is saying they are out of money and won't be able to fund disaster recovery for this storm.

It's a false equivalency argument.

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

First in line for oil/nat gas/mineral deals on the Black Sea.

Oldsouljer said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

First in line for oil/nat gas/mineral deals on the Black Sea.

---

Hmm. I don't know about that.

Ncsufist said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

No it's not. We literally can not pay to take care of our own mess because we are paying for illegal aliens (fema funds… somehow) and still shelling out huge amounts to two wars we aren't even a part of.

---

The only reason FEMA is broke is because House Republicans just refused to give them money in the recent funding bill. That's it. They even knew the hurricane was coming, and STILL refused to fund them.

If you're saying we can't afford FEMA and military aid that will help to keep our boots out of Europe because of the deficit, then you should be calling for a rollback of Trump's kajillion dollar rich guy tax cuts that were just added to the deficit. But you won't, because bawling about the deficit is just a game you guys like to play.

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think its fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

First in line for oil/nat gas/mineral deals on the Black Sea.

---

Hmm. I don't know about that.

---

Allow me to admit, I'm speculating, but it is well known that these resources exist and most certainly Putin knows about them as well.

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

I swear, the contortions you guys go through to not give Biden any credit. He's handled Ukraine masterfully. He brought together a tattered NATO alliance (thanks Trump!) and made it stronger than ever, and kept Ukraine from getting bulldozed in a weekend by Russia, all without dragging NATO into open war with Russia.

So Republicans have spent a couple years bawling about Biden provoking WW3, and NOW you think Biden is going too slow? /facepalm

He repeatedly delayed shipments of weapons and continues to put special exceptions for using those weapons. Ie can't use them on targets in Russia. That's an error by the Biden Administration l that has extended the war. So he got the policy wrong there.


He inserted his political issues into the relationship with Israel to appease his base and specifically the Muslim population of Michigan. That has cost thousands of lives.

So, forgive me if I'm not impressed with Biden the master foreign policy expert. Nobody has been more wrong about foreign policy in the last 50 years like Joe Biden has.


I throughly disagree with the current populist position of isolation. Always have.

hokiewolf said:

---

He repeatedly delayed shipments of weapons and continues to put special exceptions for using those weapons. Ie can't use them on targets in Russia. That's an error by the Biden Administration l that has extended the war.

I throughly disagree with the current populist position of isolation. Always have.

---

The only way Biden could hold the entire NATO coalition together on Ukraine as well as he has (given a**holes like Hungary and Turkey gumming things up) has been to slow boil Russia with steadily increasing weapons capabilities. Giving Kiev long range missiles to strike Moscow first thing was never an option.

And he's bent over backwards to help Israel while trying to avoid a regional war.

You guys just start with "I want to be mad at the Dem" and work backwards from there.

Biden-Harris spending vs results:

$7.5 billion on EV charging stations
2.5+ years later: 7 stations installed

$42.5 billion on rural internet service
3+ years later: Not 1 home connected

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 2, 2024

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nation neighbors want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

Ncsufist said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Ncsufist said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

---

Exactly. WWIII gets fetishized a lot on here but it implies something that is going to be hard to replicate, i.e. the combined military might of pre-war Germany and its Axis allies.

Iran is not Germany.

The obvious elephant is China but I can't fathom a scenario where they want that smoke. Russia is depleted and a shell of itself. Iran is tiny and not even worth talking about aside from their nuclear threat. They're not equipped to fight a war of attrition against Israel much less Israel plus the US and all our NATO allies.

So is China really going to fight a war on Iran's behalf because Iran is full of hate for non-Muslims?

Civilized said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Ncsufist said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

---

Exactly. WWIII gets fetishized a lot on here but it implies something that is going to be hard to replicate, i.e. the combined military might of pre-war Germany and its Axis allies.

Iran is not Germany.

The obvious elephant is China but I can't fathom a scenario where they want that smoke. Russia is depleted and a shell of itself. Iran is tiny and not even worth talking about aside from their nuclear threat. They're not equipped to fight a war of attrition against Israel much less Israel plus the US and all our NATO allies.

So is China really going to fight a war on Iran's behalf because Iran is full of hate for non-Muslims?

---

Ya gotta wonder where Russia really is at these days. It seems they finally took Vuhledar albeit with horrendous losses, but I was reading about the severe labor shortages in defense industries let alone any other Russian manufacturing sector….i read that there were 16,600 open jobs in defense recently of which they'd only filled 600 and the hours were brutal, 11-12 hour days of a 6-7 day work week. The reporter who did this story asked a plant manager about this and he refused to answer….then immediately offered the reporter a job.

Civilized said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Ncsufist said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

---

Exactly. WWIII gets fetishized a lot on here but it implies something that is going to be hard to replicate, i.e. the combined military might of pre-war Germany and its Axis allies.

Iran is not Germany.

The obvious elephant is China but I can't fathom a scenario where they want that smoke. Russia is depleted and a shell of itself. Iran is tiny and not even worth talking about aside from their nuclear threat. They're not equipped to fight a war of attrition against Israel much less Israel plus the US and all our NATO allies.

So is China really going to fight a war on Iran's behalf because Iran is full of hate for non-Muslims?

---

Man, I'm so old I remember when democrats and the MSM were telling us all the time we were headed for war. Iran, NK, Russia, China….heck even Venezuela. What changed?

FlossyDFlynt said:

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Ncsufist said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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It's a false equivalency argument.

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Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

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I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

---

Israel attacked a Russian base in Syria last night. They are warning Russian citizens leave Israel.

Ncsufist said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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Ncsufist said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nations want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

I agree with that and I certainly don't know what the answer is. I'd rather support Israel in their fight than to keep pouring money into Ukraine.

---

I've said for a while now that the Middle East is what drags us into wwiii.

---

I disagree on that point. Who is coming to back Iran? Russia cannot fight two wars at once (they just passed a law yesterday allowing convicted criminals to get their sentences commuted if they fight in the war) and China has its own domestic problems. Ive said it in other threads before, but if WWIII happens, it starts either by Belarus invading Ukraine to aid Russia or China going into Taiwan. I think the Middle East, for the grease fire that it currently is, will be contained to the Middle East

---

Israel attacked a Russian base in Syria last night. They are warning Russian citizens leave Israel.

---

And how many times have the Houthi's hit one of our bases? We have much more capacity to respond (and we have responded). Russia does not have the ability at the moment to go into the Middle East as their military is already extremely strained due to the meat grinder in Ukraine

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

It's a false equivalency argument.

---

Is it? How much longer would you fund Ukraine? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Until Russia surrender's?

I know "Putin bad" but what does the U.S. gain?

---

Stability in Europe. If Europe goes to war, its World War III, which will undoubtedly include the US.

I do think it's fair to ask what the end game is. This is where I break away from Vance's (and Im assuming Trumps position, although he hasnt been clear about his actual position). I am fine with funding Ukraine, but we have to have an off ramp at some point.

---

you have explained my argument better than me, I appreciate that. Right now, I think the funding we are providing Ukraine and Israel is a good return on a minimal investment vs bringing in mass amounts of troops to support those efforts (ie the amount of money spent in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The Biden administration has extended both of these wars because they are technocrats and believe that brokering diplomacy is better than just winning a damn war. In actuality l they are just extending the conflict.

Just give Ukraine and Israel what they think they need to have to win and get out of their way and let them do it. It's their country they are defending. A victory for Ukraine and Israel only strengthens the US as the lone superpower.

Again, I do not want to live in a world that is dominated by Russia or China. I want the US to be the ones keeping everyone in line and being a dominant force. It's what is going to get the Arab States to fall in line, it's going to improve our impact in Europe, and it's going to keep China second guessing on invading Taiwan.

---

The problem in Israel is that Israel isn't fighting or winning a war in the traditional sense, no matter how much money or equipment we give them.

Hamas isn't a traditional military foe and you're never going to defeat them militarily.

The broader problem in the middle east is that they're fighting a war of ideology. Many of Israel's Muslim-majority nation neighbors want to end Israel because it's a Jewish state, not because of anything specific they're doing or not doing. The fact that they exist is enough to want them extinguished.

You can't defeat that hate and ignorance even with a never-ending supply of tanks and bombs and laser-guided missiles.

---

Civ… you are spot on!

but, but, butt-plug!

Rising to the top! #creamofthecdrop #devolution #Uniparty

🚨BREAKING🚨

I have just released the full report on politicians trading in 2023.

Like every year since 2020, US politicians beat the market.

And many in Congress made unusually timed trades resulting in huge gains.

Here are the top performers of 2023. pic.twitter.com/ykf9VICsBw

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) January 2, 2024

Convenient nuptials.

New: DOE Chancellor David Banks & his longtime partner, First Deputy Mayor Sheena Wright — whose home was raided by the feds this month — are getting married in Martha's Vineyard this weekend.

Married couples can't be made to testify against each other. https://t.co/2kqDxMJMrb

— Chris Sommerfeldt (@C_Sommerfeldt) September 28, 2024

The people's government has been overthrown. We have a Manchurian Candidate" running our country since the election theft of Nov 2020.

You witness White-Erasure in real time.

It was time for this destructive absurdity to end yesterday.

Go Free from the Antiwhite-Narrative and Antiwhiteism.

No White Guilt https://t.co/X6S3WpSMLx

— Westernkind United (@WesternkindUTD) September 28, 2024

October 30th is a date to keep in mind. I think she's doing a tour called "HILLARY LIVE" right now. She has a stop on Oct 17th in 'John' Durham, NC, I understand.

“Evergreen” is Hillary Clinton’s Secret Service code name it is also the name of a shipping company that transports CHILDREN, drugged and boxed up in containers marked “ Live Art” for delivery to elite pedophiles and pedovores (is someone who eats babies) for possible organ… pic.twitter.com/0hj97AECoa

— THiS LiL’ MiSS Can’t Be Wrong (@l42022425) October 6, 2024

“This is a country that's being run by fools.”

Trump calls Mayorkas’ claim that FEMA doesn’t have funding to last hurricane season “a disgrace”:

“They're doing a very bad job. They’ve given over a $1 billion to illegal migrants that came in and now they have no money for North… pic.twitter.com/9sfWnKMwi8

— Ben Swann (@BenSwann_) October 3, 2024

Guys like #daSieve, #daNappy, #daGrantNut and #daChuckster are not individual sovereign friends, they ar... enemies of the people.......let's hope its simply as unknowing brainwashed Saul Alinsky'ites, a la #UsefulIdiots

Of course, we cannot ignore the #daGobbler's of the world either. Never been a foreign war that he didn't support as long as his sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, and oh yes granchildren weren't doing the dieing. Let's send more tax dollars, other taxpayer's loved ones and military hardware.........the more the better.......and, of course, its great for the portfolio.

FEMA FAILURE IN THE SOUTHEAST

I was just alerted by friends in Greenville, SC that there is a massive failure by FEMA to deploy assets to assist those impacted by Hurricane Helene and they are feeling beyond frustrated and angry.

FEMA has 12 MEDVAC EC135 helicopters just… pic.twitter.com/rkW0ysisLd

— Kylie Jane Kremer (@KylieJaneKremer) October 3, 2024