Seems like am economic tool to get money pumped into the economy. A bunch of people with more monthly cash to spend on consumer goods and raise tax revenue as well.

Biden's Press Secretary he is on board to forgive $10k of student debt held by Federal Loans. I would only want to see it paired with mechanisms to try to combat the cost of college education.

Ridiculous. So everyone who has paid off their own education get to pay higher taxes to cover other's bills.

And I doubt it will end with the 50k.

Have taxes been raised?

statefan91 said:

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Seems like am economic tool to get money pumped into the economy. A bunch of people with more monthly cash to spend on consumer goods and raise tax revenue as well.

Biden's Press Secretary he is on board to forgive $10k of student debt held by Federal Loans. I would only want to see it paired with mechanisms to try to combat the cost of college education.

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That's not the way loans work. Yeah, if people don't have to pay loans back, they have more money to spend on other things. The logic behind that being ok is a bit mind boggling though.

packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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Seems like am economic tool to get money pumped into the economy. A bunch of people with more monthly cash to spend on consumer goods and raise tax revenue as well.

Biden's Press Secretary he is on board to forgive $10k of student debt held by Federal Loans. I would only want to see it paired with mechanisms to try to combat the cost of college education.

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That's not the way loans work. Yeah, if people don't have to pay loans back, they have more money to spend on other things. The logic behind that being ok is a bit mind boggling though.

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What is the issue with the logic of forgiving portions of student debt? Are you worried that it's a hand out like the Farmer subsidies? Or maybe that it's a hand out like the 2017 Tax Cut that primarily cut corporations taxes and ballooned national debt? Let's not pretend Republicans are fiscal conservatives again .

statefan91 said:

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Have taxes been raised?

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Lol, you don't think it's coming? It's coming in various forms. But hey, if the rich take the brunt of it, maybe that's ok.

The free gifts need to stop. There is talk about making the first 10K of unemployment tax free. For those who continued to work during the pandemic, keep up the good work paying taxes.

statefan91 said:

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packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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Seems like am economic tool to get money pumped into the economy. A bunch of people with more monthly cash to spend on consumer goods and raise tax revenue as well.

Biden's Press Secretary he is on board to forgive $10k of student debt held by Federal Loans. I would only want to see it paired with mechanisms to try to combat the cost of college education.

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That's not the way loans work. Yeah, if people don't have to pay loans back, they have more money to spend on other things. The logic behind that being ok is a bit mind boggling though.

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What is the issue with the logic of forgiving portions of student debt? Are you worried that it's a hand out like the Farmer subsidies? Or maybe that it's a hand out like the 2017 Tax Cut that primarily cut corporations taxes and ballooned national debt? Let's not pretend Republicans are fiscal conservatives again .

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I clearly stated my issue. No. No. We can play the whataboutism game all day though if you'd like. Let's not pretend that Democrats have ever cared about fiscal responsibility.

packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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Seems like am economic tool to get money pumped into the economy. A bunch of people with more monthly cash to spend on consumer goods and raise tax revenue as well.

Biden's Press Secretary he is on board to forgive $10k of student debt held by Federal Loans. I would only want to see it paired with mechanisms to try to combat the cost of college education.

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That's not the way loans work. Yeah, if people don't have to pay loans back, they have more money to spend on other things. The logic behind that being ok is a bit mind boggling though.

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This is one that hits close to heart. My medical education loans are pretty significant and there was no way I could get through school without them. My parents did all they could to put me through undergrad. I worked multiple jobs while in undergrad to help pay for school then and to save for professional school.

I would also like to somehow curb tuition hikes on undergrad and professional, but have no idea on how to accomplish that. Any ideas on this?

However, forgiveness of student loans could increase the individual's taxes, not everyone else's taxes as the common argument against forgiveness goes. We already have multiple types of public service loan forgiveness that do not cause anyone's taxes to increase already. This could be an extension of that. Also, could be labeled as emergency relief which would not be taxable. This could be done and not affect any of you that do not have student loans.

Studies do suggest that it would stimulate the economy. If you think of it this way, most folks with student loans are working in whichever specific field that they majored in and typically have well paying jobs. If they no longer have those monthly payments, that can go straight back into the economy. I know my student loan payments are a small mortgage payment and would definitely encourage me to spend more on other things without them.

Forbes Article on Taxes and Student Loan Forgiveness


ETA: Not sure why I quoted you Packgrad. This was not necessarily directed at you, just a general discussion point. Sorry about that!

Just an update for some of yall who havent had student loans in decades...

i graduated in 2013 and work for a local Municipality and have been part of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program since 2015, this program takes ten years off on time payments to get your balance forgiven and you dont have to pay taxes on it, the scary part is that your payment every month is so small it just causes your interest to balloon



my interest rate has been 6.6 since i graduated but it is at currently 0 because they have halted all payments for govt held student loans since last april and biden just extended it again till September.

Edit: my current payment is based of my W2 and is about 130 a month thats pretty much just pissed away when i have to make it

Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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That was a part of my post above. There already is loan forgiveness for employees whom provide specific public services that does not affect taxes one way or the other. There is another option as it being labeled as emergency relief and no taxes are affected just like the stimulus payments. Those individuals or families would not be affected.

I did without, worked 2 jobs, and still have student loans, because of my position in the medical field. Most of the medical providers that are dealing with the pandemic will have student loans. That therein lies the original problem. Why do so many people have insurmountable student loans?? That needs to be addressed, but in the meantime, this would be a great way to stimulate the economy, in my humble opinion. I think the theory is help the economy which helps individuals and businesses which provides more profits which generates tax income that way.

Business Insider Article

Disclaimer: I am by no means an economist, so I rely on others predictions for how the economy would benefit/worsen based on specific policies.

WPNfamily said:

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my only complaint on this has nothing to do with the fact that i paid of 90k in loans. it has to do with the fact that forgiving loans like this just feels like another softening of America. this feels like a participation trophy event to me. sucks. i want my kids to know how hard life is when they go to school. school loans is a rite of passage.

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except now a days a bachelors degree is just another piece of paper like the highschool diploma, it used to have weight to it but now everyone has one and its getting that way with masters from what i understand with all the online MBA programs.

its turned into a cash grab by the schools and banks, the govt should of never got involved into guaranteeing the loans.

Yep the post-secondary educational system needs reform. Jobs give you on-site training anyway..why do you need most of these core content college classes? Just a way for the universities to make money these days. My personal belief is that we should start to gear towards internships and apprenticeships in lieu of traditional college education in many fields.

I see both sides on the loan forgiveness..student loans suck, but this doesn't seem fair to those who paid for college or have already sacrificed to pay off their own loans.

Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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That's what i'm saying.

I took a job working from 2 am to 3:30 pm every day for 5 years laying up fiberglass at 8 bucks an hour because my college degree from State was paid for. I got a degree in business admin and have been very successful in my field

On the other hand my brother in law is in debt almost 100k and got a useless degree in international studies. He is working as a bartender now.

If you borrowed the damn money pay it back. Its not my fault and I shouldn't be responsible for having to carry someone's lazy ass because they chose a different path in life.

I'm not for free school and I am for the lowest interest possible on student loans. The interest should pay salaries, buildings, equipment and supplies of getting the loans out...that's it. Money off the loans should just keep loans available for those that need them and the interest should be as minimal as possible. Student loans can't be a cash grab.

2 Public school teachers (I have their first check stubs) saved enough money for their kids to go to any school in the world...they wanted to attend. Those 1954 check stubs were $200 for the 1st month ($1800/year).

cowboypack02 said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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On the other hand my brother in law is in debt almost 100k and got a useless degree in international studies. He is working as a bartender now.

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thats another thing that annoys the crap out of me, is youll allow a 18 year old kid to sign for a massive loan which they may highly regret down the lown and you cant even get out of it via bankruptcy...

PackPA2015 said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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That was a part of my post above. There already is loan forgiveness for employees whom provide specific public services that does not affect taxes one way or the other. There is another option as it being labeled as emergency relief and no taxes are affected just like the stimulus payments. Those individuals or families would not be affected.

I did without, worked 2 jobs, and still have student loans, because of my position in the medical field. Most of the medical providers that are dealing with the pandemic will have student loans. That therein lies the original problem. Why do so many people have insurmountable student loans?? That needs to be addressed, but in the meantime, this would be a great way to stimulate the economy, in my humble opinion. I think the theory is help the economy which helps individuals and businesses which provides more profits which generates tax income that way.

Business Insider Article

Disclaimer: I am by no means an economist, so I rely on others predictions for how the economy would benefit/worsen based on specific policies.

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I want to address both of the sentences here, but want them to be separate notes:

Why do so many people have insurmountable student loans?? - I believe that college loans are so expensive is because the the federal government guarantees them for the most part. Its no skin off of anyone's back if some kid borrows 200k and can't pay it back because the government deals with it on the back end if the kid defaults. Colleges know this and have increased their prices because they can. To solve for this the government needs to stop guaranteeing the loans. This will bring the entire college borrowing thing back down to reality. It will force companies that are loaning this money to look at the person that they are loaning money to as well as to why the kid is going to school and if they will be able to actually pay back the loan. It will also force colleges to re-evaluate their fees because the money won't be coming in as they lose revenue due to students deciding to go places with a lower cost.

This would be a great way to stimulate the economy - So for all of the people that had to work hard, struggle, do without, and break their backs to either pay back the college loans or go through an employer who was willing to pay or reimburse someone....you want to break their back again through what will surely end up being higher taxes to cover the trillions of dollars that it is going to cost in order to forgive all of these loans? Its a horrible financial strategy long term in the real world

mdreid said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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On the other hand my brother in law is in debt almost 100k and got a useless degree in international studies. He is working as a bartender now.

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thats another thing that annoys the crap out of me, is youll allow a 18 year old kid to sign for a massive loan which they may highly regret down the lown and you cant even get out of it via bankruptcy...

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Look at my comment to PackPA2015 directly above this note.....that should answer your question

cowboypack02 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Just for arguments sake, the kids/parents that did without, worked two jobs, saved, etc to pay their bills on time...what do they get other than the opportunity to pay off someone else's loan.

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That was a part of my post above. There already is loan forgiveness for employees whom provide specific public services that does not affect taxes one way or the other. There is another option as it being labeled as emergency relief and no taxes are affected just like the stimulus payments. Those individuals or families would not be affected.

I did without, worked 2 jobs, and still have student loans, because of my position in the medical field. Most of the medical providers that are dealing with the pandemic will have student loans. That therein lies the original problem. Why do so many people have insurmountable student loans?? That needs to be addressed, but in the meantime, this would be a great way to stimulate the economy, in my humble opinion. I think the theory is help the economy which helps individuals and businesses which provides more profits which generates tax income that way.

Business Insider Article

Disclaimer: I am by no means an economist, so I rely on others predictions for how the economy would benefit/worsen based on specific policies.

---

I want to address both of the sentences here, but want them to be separate notes:

Why do so many people have insurmountable student loans?? - I believe that college loans are so expensive is because the the federal government guarantees them for the most part. Its no skin off of anyone's back if some kid borrows 200k and can't pay it back because the government deals with it on the back end if the kid defaults. Colleges know this and have increased their prices because they can. To solve for this the government needs to stop guaranteeing the loans. This will bring the entire college borrowing thing back down to reality. It will force companies that are loaning this money to look at the person that they are loaning money to as well as to why the kid is going to school and if they will be able to actually pay back the loan. It will also force colleges to re-evaluate their fees because the money won't be coming in as they lose revenue due to students deciding to go places with a lower cost.

This would be a great way to stimulate the economy - So for all of the people that had to work hard, struggle, do without, and break their backs to either pay back the college loans or go through an employer who was willing to pay or reimburse someone....you want to break their back again through what will surely end up being higher taxes to cover the trillions of dollars that it is going to cost in order to forgive all of these loans? Its a horrible financial strategy long term in the real world

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1. I will try to do some research on your theory. I do not know if all those things are necessarily cause and affect, but again I am no economist. I will look some stuff up. Thanks for the info!

2. I hate when people say this. Just because you have student loans does not mean you don't work hard, doesn't mean you don't go through struggles, etc. I did all of that and still have student loans. I was 22 when I signed for my loans. I had just graduated from NC State with a human biology degree, minor in genetics and was already working 2 jobs as a CNA to 1)get medical hours and 2) to save up money for professional school. I still have student loans. I mean, who can afford to pay 38K per year which is in-state medical school tuition on average??

I currently work at 2 locations as a medical provider to increase my pay to be able to pay more on my loan than what is required every month. Again, in my other posts, there are ways that are already out there that do not affect taxes. Look up public service loan forgiveness. If the loan forgiveness that is being proposed is labeled "emergency relief", it is not taxed on the front end or the back end. It is not breaking anyone's backs. If loan forgiveness is given and is taxed, this increases the individual's taxes, not everyone else's. Again, if you forgive student loans of people with high end jobs that make good money, this frees them up to put money back into the economy which helps everyone.


I will repeat this for everyone, because this is the most common argument against loan forgiveness. There are ways that the federal government can do this without raising anyone's taxes that do not have student loans and possibly without even raising those individual's taxes. It is currently done with public service loan forgiveness and other programs. This would be a larger scale of course, but it can be done.

This father who confronted Warren sums it up...



It's absolutely not fair.

I thought trickle down economics didn't work?

So forgiving student loans will stimulate the economy by reducing costs to the borrower so he/she can spend more, but reducing the tax burden of any taxpayer doesn't do so? I'm not sure I understand.

Were taxes raised after other bailouts in US history?

Is this question directed to me? Not sure I have said anything about trickle down economics not working or vice-versa.

I was personally just addressing the student loan forgiveness question, that's all.

metcalfmafia said:

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Were taxes raised after other bailouts in US history?

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printer go burr... err i mean keyboard go delete

Really dumb.

Student loan forgiveness is highly regressive and will benefit middle and high income individuals more than people who are actually struggling.

The argument that this will stimulate the economy doesn't hold water either. Loans are currently 0% anyways. More importantly, stimulus does not work when there isn't consumer demand to actually get the money spent.

When you account for unemployment and direct covid payments, incomes in 2020 are actually really high. Savings are at historical highs and debts at historical lows. Some people and businesses are really struggling (especially food and entertainment) but the average US worker is still employed and working from home.

These workers have money to spend, they just don't have anything to spend it on. You can't vacation. You can't go out to bars. This is the primary reason right now that consumer spending is down. More stimulus isn't going to help that. We will see a huge recovery in a few months due to vaccines, even if the Feds pass no more covid relief

packofwolves said:

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This father who confronted Warren sums it up...



It's absolutely not fair.

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I agree!

The investigation on this entire topic of student loan forgiveness starts with a simple question that leads to others:

Why is it costing so much money to go to college?

Are you getting a return on your investment when you graduate?

What can be done about regulating interest rates?

Wasn't there a move by the fed government that flowed all student loans through one particular banks?? Not sure why that is stuck in my head. Thought it happened in the early 10's.

Is it going to be income based? Student loans are tough, the ones with the highest amounts of money usually have the highest income.
I'm not a fan of forgiving student loan debt but won't cry if 10-50k gets taken off of ours. I just fail to see how it's even remotely fair.

PackPA2015 said:

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Is this question directed to me? Not sure I have said anything about trickle down economics not working or vice-versa.

I was personally just addressing the student loan forgiveness question, that's all.

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Oh no, not at you at all. I literally am just trying to understand how the ideas are different, because I've argued for trickle down with friends for years and been told i was wrong. I think it seems to always depend mostly on which lens through which we view the topics we argue. No offense meant, friend.

I can buy a nice house with my student loans which has nothing to do with COVID. There are ways these folks can spend their money even through COVID.

Mormad said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Is this question directed to me? Not sure I have said anything about trickle down economics not working or vice-versa.

I was personally just addressing the student loan forgiveness question, that's all.

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Oh no, not at you at all. I literally am just trying to understand how the ideas are different, because I've argued for trickle down with friends for years and been told i was wrong. I think it seems to always depend mostly on which lens through which we view the topics we argue. No offense meant, friend.

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None taken! I tend to agree with you. I think it does work, but everyone around me says differently so oh well.