hokiewolf said:

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Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

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Agreed. But could there be reasons why its made more difficult? Possibly to make illegal entry more attractive? Who does that benefit? Seems like so many of us react to what we observe but are unable or unwilling to analyze and understand the whys. America is no longer governed by "we the people".......its very simple. Legitimize the 10th amendment and get the money out of DC......and its taxes that fleece Americans. Think about the damn "why"

Werewolf said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Agreed. But could there be reasons why its made more difficult? Possibly to make illegal entry more attractive? Who does that benefit? Seems like so many of us react to what we observe but are unable or unwilling to analyze and understand the whys. America is no longer governed by "we the people".......its very simple. Legitimize the 10th amendment and get the money out of DC......and its taxes that fleece Americans. Think about the damn "why"

---

I think it's clear that many people, in the Republican Party, want illegal immigrants. It's helps them in many ways.

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Nah fam. It's because you believe in populist nationalist beliefs. There's no reason to be upset about it, it's the actual definition of what you guys believe! Not sure how that's an insult.

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Does that make you a globalist?

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pretty sure I'm a conservative, but packgrad thinks I'm a liberal.

Again, I don't understand why you would be insulted in me calling your beliefs the literal defining words of those beliefs. Just own it.

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Hokie, we truly have two types of Republicans. 1) America First 2) Globalist

So, I don't know which one you are. I don't doubt you are a Republican; however, in todays world, that really doesn't mean anything.

BTW, I'm using Republican instead of Conservative on purpose...

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I don't subscribe to the globalist agenda but I do believe in neoliberalism of spreading democracy that countries need to fit into the global economy if they are to achieve success: deregulation, privatization and cutting taxes.

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At this point, I'm concerned for the country my daughters have to live in, well after my days...

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See, here is where we differ....I am not particularly concerned for the country my kids have to live in --- the great thing about the US is....almost everything is correctable. We have free elections and if we don't like the way the country is going, we can elect someone differently. I'd rather live nowhere else than right here, for all the warts we may have, and all the craziness that plays out for the public consumption these days....I firmly believe ultimately, things work out ok in the US.


**I will say my bigger concern -- bigger than any type of political statement -- is just the environment / climate. Unlike many of you, I think things are getting worse faster than would be normal. I don't subscribed to the coast flooding in a few years like the worst of predictions, but drought / fire is more prevalent...which in turn means less food for more people that are populating the world. This isn't necessarily a US politics issue, because I believe the worst of this going forward will be driven by China and India, but we all have to live in it.

TheStorm said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Now imagine if your wife was from say Nicaragua or Somalia or Thailand and didn't know our language amd nuances. And someone who was not helped by a loving American husband, but someone who also was not well versed in the language, or someone looking to make $$ off of them.
And that they went in not trusting the US government to do the right thing, but fearful that it was a trap and that they'd show up for help amd be exported.

Yeah, it's easy as citizens to be self righteous about following the law…but in real life, it's much more difficult

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RWW, as I have said… thank you for following the process as hard as it's been. The process we have doesn't surprise me as being bureaucratic, even though I haven't experienced it.

Chem, your comment about being self righteous is so you…. I don't think this board is full of what you described. I think people here see and understand situations like RWW; however, they also see the 150K + illegals crossing our border every month.

For me, we have talked so long about creating universal legislation, in congress, that never goes anywhere. Now, I'm hoping, that it goes nowhere until the border wall is built, whether it stops illegal immigration or not! Show the effort of trying to control it, then immigration process will have my support, and probably from most here that you call self righteous!

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First, I didn't mention you or anyone else by name, and was not responding to your posts.

To me, self-righteous is when a person -- who thru mostly the good fortune of being born into something above abject poverty in the richest country in the world -- says "we need to take care of ourselves first, we dont' need anyone else coming here". Or when a person in those same conditions says -- hey immigrants, you're bad because you are a lawbreaker -- as if any of us who lived in horrible conditions in some remote land would consult the US law before heading this direction (lol, I mean, that really is a laughable belief if you take your blinders off).
Or, you're bad because someone in your group brought drugs, so we don't want any of you. Now, it so happens you've made those comments throughout this topic, but I actually wasn't talking to you, but really just more general

And let me be clear and in self-disclosure -- I recognize this because I've been guilty of it too. I used to think..."why do these poor black people keep falling into crime, why not just do like I did and get educated (I came from a very blue collar house where no one had been to college) and make themselves better instead of selling drugs on the corner".
Then I started doing charitable projects in Boulevard Homes housing project in Charlotte, and realizing all those poor little kids born with no father. Sometimes no mother. Not thru their own actions. World stacked on top of them, schools that you nor I would let our own kids go to ---- so who was I to hold them accountable for turning to something that looked better? I realized how darned fortunate I was, and how I should apply that lens to others before I grouped them as "bad" or whatever.

Accountable to the law, of course, just like immigration. But sorry, if it offends you, but this attitude of "I don't want any new immigrants here because America First" is....self righteous.

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Let's be honest here! You're being a little self righteous yourself by telling us about your help and experience in these low income areas and that that makes you more knowledgeable than Cary.

The debate over issues in low income areas and unmoderated countries, and what can be done to change places like these, is a while different debate.

What so many fail to respect when it comes to these debates, is the different perspective people are arguing from. Cary is coming from the perspective of having a family member become a victim of the drugs that are currently flooding across our borders. Chem is arguing from the perspective of having seen the type of lives people live in other countries and why they are fleeing.

Why can't both people be right?

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The answer is not a wide open system and it's not slam the door shut and lock it. That's why I asked the questions and wanted to see people thoughts on the process.

But, stop with the self righteous bull**** when you're being self righteous in the process.

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LOL...its self-righteous to share an experience that helped me move on from being self-righteous? Come on man.

And sorry, but well-to-do Americans who say "we don't want you here b/c we have things to clean up" -- taht is the height of self-righteousness.

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self righteous

having or characterized by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.

You both bit off a piece of this one, lol

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I like Chem - well, at least I try to like him (and I think i'd get along fine with him in person) - but damn, if he doesn't always take the contrarian position on anything and everything he participates in on these message boards.

But you called it perfectly here, Steve...

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But is it self-righteous if you actually are correct?

Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

---

That's fine, but half the country? That's an overstatement. The only ones that believe that are still falling for the BS from our MSM and still can't get over their emotions against Trump. Yes it was a bad day, yes it was a bad image. But to say it was the worst day in history? Not even close.

The US has always been the top dog when it comes to world stage. We've managed to defeat communism and dictators at every turn. Now, in the last 2 years, we've done nothing but empower Russia and China. Now we're talking about buying oil from Venezuela. Everything that was fought against during the cold War starting 40+ years ago, has almost been completely undone in 2 years.

And your only focus is Jan 6? Are you kidding me!

Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

---

That's fine, but half the country? That's an overstatement. The only ones that believe that are still falling for the BS from our MSM and still can't get over their emotions against Trump. Yes it was a bad day, yes it was a bad image. But to say it was the worst day in history? Not even close.

The US has always been the top dog when it comes to world stage. We've managed to defeat communism and dictators at every turn. Now, in the last 2 years, we've done nothing but empower Russia and China. Now we're talking about buying oil from Venezuela. Everything that was fought against during the cold War starting 40+ years ago, has almost been completely undone in 2 years.

And your only focus is Jan 6? Are you kidding me!

---

Who said it was the worst day in history -- again, you add your own bias to try to make something I said more negative than I said it. I notice you do this a lot.

A bad image....i mean people breaking into the Capitol. Breaking things. Spraying with bear spray (that one action alone should stop all the "peaceful intentions" nonsense). That is a bit more than "a bad image".
Lets be real...if Antifa or some group protesting a person killed by a cop, you and otehrs would have rightly treated it as a very serious offense. Not just a "bad image"

Is it the worst day? Of course not, when you have OKC bombing, the WTC attack, and other such events. But I will say unlike those other events, in this case you had an angry leader riling up an angry audience....so, that does make it bad.

And your last comment...again, you come on hear and say you want to have discussion...so stop with the making things up that were not said. I just said BOTH the far left and far right. Antifa is every bit as bad and violent. That is not close to your summary.

Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

---

That's fine, but half the country? That's an overstatement. The only ones that believe that are still falling for the BS from our MSM and still can't get over their emotions against Trump. Yes it was a bad day, yes it was a bad image. But to say it was the worst day in history? Not even close.

The US has always been the top dog when it comes to world stage. We've managed to defeat communism and dictators at every turn. Now, in the last 2 years, we've done nothing but empower Russia and China. Now we're talking about buying oil from Venezuela. Everything that was fought against during the cold War starting 40+ years ago, has almost been completely undone in 2 years.

And your only focus is Jan 6? Are you kidding me!

---

Who said it was the worst day in history -- again, you add your own bias to try to make something I said more negative than I said it. I notice you do this a lot.

A bad image....i mean people breaking into the Capitol. Breaking things. Spraying with bear spray (that one action alone should stop all the "peaceful intentions" nonsense). That is a bit more than "a bad image".
Lets be real...if Antifa or some group protesting a person killed by a cop, you and otehrs would have rightly treated it as a very serious offense. Not just a "bad image"

Is it the worst day? Of course not, when you have OKC bombing, the WTC attack, and other such events.

And your last comment...again, you come on hear and say you want to have discussion...so stop with the making things up that were not said. I just said BOTH the far left and far right. Antifa is every bit as bad and violent. That is not close to your summary.

---

OK, no you didn't say that, and I apologize! But, you keep bringing up Jan 6... you do that a lot!

You also stated that half the country, maybe more, think we're under attack from people that were in DC in Jan 6. You really think that is accurate? How many people have been charged with insurrection from that day?

I agree with you that the far left and far right are dangerous. But, neither of those come close to making up half the country, not even if you combine them. But, they get all the attention from the media. Why is that? It sure isn't because they want or country to be unified!

Our internal attack, in my opinion is coming from corrupt politician elites. We have a sitting president that is 100% compromised, and has been for a while. We have politicians who are compromised because they care more about their bank accounts than they do the average American who voted them there. And you have a media that won't call them out for any of it.

And yes, I do come on here for discussion, and actually try to start most of it by asking questions or posting links to articles. How often have you asked people questions about their thoughts? How often have you posed a question just to start discussion?

And I apologize! But, I don't have a long fuse for hypocrisy and self righteous BS. I can be an ass that way. But, at least I'm aware of it!

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Of course the combine fringes don't make up 50%. But you said our greatest threat comes from within. I dont, but I'd guess many people believe that…amd the source of that threat likely aligns with your political beliefs.
If you polled the media, you know darned well they believe fundamental MAGA types are the bigger threat.

And I believe anybody who gets to POTUS is a bought out / compromised politician - even ones who try to pose as outsiders. Its just the nature of the beast.

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

that's a fair critique Steve and I appreciate it. I don't think that was my intent but I can see how it comes across that way.

As far as exact policy, I'm not a 100% expert on how everything works, but a broad general understanding based on what I've read has formed my opinion that there needs to be more avenues and speed to legal immigration or work permits in order for illegal immigration to go away. I've come to the conclusion that's that really is going to be the only way. Walls and policing only work for as long as the party in office that supports that stance. Amnesty only encourages more illegal immigration.

This has been an issue for almost 40 years and the same solutions are being applied to both sides - walls and enforcement or amnesty. Neither to me is a viable solution. All those two options do is allow for politicians to rile you up so that you donate to their campaign. But they aren't real solutions to the problem, it's just a bandaid

Steve Videtich said:

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Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

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Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

---

That's fine, but half the country? That's an overstatement. The only ones that believe that are still falling for the BS from our MSM and still can't get over their emotions against Trump. Yes it was a bad day, yes it was a bad image. But to say it was the worst day in history? Not even close.

The US has always been the top dog when it comes to world stage. We've managed to defeat communism and dictators at every turn. Now, in the last 2 years, we've done nothing but empower Russia and China. Now we're talking about buying oil from Venezuela. Everything that was fought against during the cold War starting 40+ years ago, has almost been completely undone in 2 years.

And your only focus is Jan 6? Are you kidding me!

---

Who said it was the worst day in history -- again, you add your own bias to try to make something I said more negative than I said it. I notice you do this a lot.

A bad image....i mean people breaking into the Capitol. Breaking things. Spraying with bear spray (that one action alone should stop all the "peaceful intentions" nonsense). That is a bit more than "a bad image".
Lets be real...if Antifa or some group protesting a person killed by a cop, you and otehrs would have rightly treated it as a very serious offense. Not just a "bad image"

Is it the worst day? Of course not, when you have OKC bombing, the WTC attack, and other such events.

And your last comment...again, you come on hear and say you want to have discussion...so stop with the making things up that were not said. I just said BOTH the far left and far right. Antifa is every bit as bad and violent. That is not close to your summary.

---

OK, no you didn't say that, and I apologize! But, you keep bringing up Jan 6... you do that a lot!

You also stated that half the country, maybe more, think we're under attack from people that were in DC in Jan 6. You really think that is accurate? How many people have been charged with insurrection from that day?

I agree with you that the far left and far right are dangerous. But, neither of those come close to making up half the country, not even if you combine them. But, they get all the attention from the media. Why is that? It sure isn't because they want or country to be unified!

Our internal attack, in my opinion is coming from corrupt politician elites. We have a sitting president that is 100% compromised, and has been for a while. We have politicians who are compromised because they care more about their bank accounts than they do the average American who voted them there. And you have a media that won't call them out for any of it.

And yes, I do come on here for discussion, and actually try to start most of it by asking questions or posting links to articles. How often have you asked people questions about their thoughts? How often have you posed a question just to start discussion?

And I apologize! But, I don't have a long fuse for hypocrisy and self righteous BS. I can be an ass that way. But, at least I'm aware of it!

---

Btw, you sound noble to say you have a short fuse for hypocrisy, etc, but you continually take what I say and add things I didn't say. So I'm not sure where you fit that into you list of dislikes, but it should be there

hokiewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

that's a fair critique Steve and I appreciate it. I don't think that was my intent but I can see how it comes across that way.

As far as exact policy, I'm not a 100% expert on how everything works, but a broad general understanding based on what I've read has formed my opinion that there needs to be more avenues and speed to legal immigration or work permits in order for illegal immigration to go away. I've come to the conclusion that's that really is going to be the only way. Walls and policing only work for as long as the party in office that supports that stance. Amnesty only encourages more illegal immigration.

This has been an issue for almost 40 years and the same solutions are being applied to both sides - walls and enforcement or amnesty. Neither to me is a viable solution. All those two options do is allow for politicians to rile you up so that you donate to their campaign. But they aren't real solutions to the problem, it's just a bandaid

---

Amnesty is a completely different issue from immigration, in my opinion. Amnesty is meant to be given when a person's life is threatened because of war, political threats, etc. And if I'm not mistaken, the rules of amnesty say that the person is supposed to seek amnesty in the next closest country that is considered safe, not shop the world for the best option.

That's another issue I have with the current administration. They are claiming these folks have a claim of amnesty. Financial reasons are not supposed to be an option for amnesty. That's not immigration.

I'll give an analogy I heard, that I think makes sense. I'm sure another poster will pop in and rip it apart. But, think about when you fly. You go to the airport and go through several steps of security before you ever get on the plane. We all take our shoes off, take out our electronics, empty our pockets and go through an xray machine, not to mention proper ID.

Now imagine if you saw somebody getting on your plane by other means, that evaded the proper security protocols. How would you feel about getting on that plane? Maybe they're just against the security process and it's harmless. Maybe they have a weapon and want to crash the plane into a building and are trying to evade getting caught. But, knowing the possibilities, are you okay with it?

We all want to go back to the day when you could go to the airport, get your ticket and head to your gate. When you're family could go to the gate and wave goodbye as you board the plane. But, those days don't exist anymore. They are gone because people do stupid ***** The security protocols are there to make sure you have a safe flight and arrive on time. And it's not a perfect system, and **** still happens.

I'm all for immigration. I'm proud of what our country has done around the world. But it's not the 1800's or even 1900's any more. Things are different. We need to make sure that everyone in this country continues to have a good life, and that the people that come here can still have a shot at a good life. More than 3/4 of our world still live in developing countries. The US can help a lot of people, but it can't help 5 billion.

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Why do you think The term nationalist or populist is a negative? I don't think that way. It's just the definition of your positions. That's all. I just don't happen to agree with those stances.

I have told you what we should do, In fact several times. And I love answered your questions several times. Im not sure I can be any more clear.

Again, my position. I'm order to kill ioff the supply of illegal means of entry - I.e. paying coyotes or the cartels to cross illegally, you have to increase the supply of legal means of entry.

So, I'll give you an example of this means. It used to be that Mexican nationals could gain daily work entry into the US to work primarily as farmers. Why not reinstate that?

---

Simple, it's taken as a negative because when you disagree with someone you throw out these names and titles. You and others have done it several times. You project it as a negative.

And no, you haven't once answered my question with regard to immigration. All you've said is that it needs to be opened up. You haven't mentioned one part of the process you would want to see, until just now regarding the farming permits.

I'll take the label "nationalist" if it means standing up for our country. When someone says or country is under attack, it is, but from an internal enemy. I'm proud of what this country has done in regards to foreign aid throughout the years. But, when things are not good at home, we can't keep doing what we've done.

It's okay that you disagree. But, when you disagree, give no understanding of your argument, and throw names around. Sorry, but yes, it comes across as a negative slander.

---

I think this is a bit overstated...but, to your point, Id guess at least half the country, maybe more, believe that threat is from folks who were in DC last Jan 6 who kind of lean towards that diehard America only agenda. And then the people who watch all of that, and somehow come to belief those actions were made up.

The reality (in my mind) is that it is the fringes on both sides that are the risk. Probably as it always has been. Just more of a voice now.

---

That's fine, but half the country? That's an overstatement. The only ones that believe that are still falling for the BS from our MSM and still can't get over their emotions against Trump. Yes it was a bad day, yes it was a bad image. But to say it was the worst day in history? Not even close.

The US has always been the top dog when it comes to world stage. We've managed to defeat communism and dictators at every turn. Now, in the last 2 years, we've done nothing but empower Russia and China. Now we're talking about buying oil from Venezuela. Everything that was fought against during the cold War starting 40+ years ago, has almost been completely undone in 2 years.

And your only focus is Jan 6? Are you kidding me!

---

Who said it was the worst day in history -- again, you add your own bias to try to make something I said more negative than I said it. I notice you do this a lot.

A bad image....i mean people breaking into the Capitol. Breaking things. Spraying with bear spray (that one action alone should stop all the "peaceful intentions" nonsense). That is a bit more than "a bad image".
Lets be real...if Antifa or some group protesting a person killed by a cop, you and otehrs would have rightly treated it as a very serious offense. Not just a "bad image"

Is it the worst day? Of course not, when you have OKC bombing, the WTC attack, and other such events.

And your last comment...again, you come on hear and say you want to have discussion...so stop with the making things up that were not said. I just said BOTH the far left and far right. Antifa is every bit as bad and violent. That is not close to your summary.

---

OK, no you didn't say that, and I apologize! But, you keep bringing up Jan 6... you do that a lot!

You also stated that half the country, maybe more, think we're under attack from people that were in DC in Jan 6. You really think that is accurate? How many people have been charged with insurrection from that day?

I agree with you that the far left and far right are dangerous. But, neither of those come close to making up half the country, not even if you combine them. But, they get all the attention from the media. Why is that? It sure isn't because they want or country to be unified!

Our internal attack, in my opinion is coming from corrupt politician elites. We have a sitting president that is 100% compromised, and has been for a while. We have politicians who are compromised because they care more about their bank accounts than they do the average American who voted them there. And you have a media that won't call them out for any of it.

And yes, I do come on here for discussion, and actually try to start most of it by asking questions or posting links to articles. How often have you asked people questions about their thoughts? How often have you posed a question just to start discussion?

And I apologize! But, I don't have a long fuse for hypocrisy and self righteous BS. I can be an ass that way. But, at least I'm aware of it!

---

Btw, you sound noble to say you have a short fuse for hypocrisy, etc, but you continually take what I say and add things I didn't say. So I'm not sure where you fit that into you list of dislikes, but it should be there

---

Yea, but I apologize and admit when I'm wrong as well don't I?

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

FYI, don't watch any news. I don't believe any of it. When I post a link it's usually too provoke thought. I listen to a lot of talk radio and do a lot of reading on history. Even the talk I listen to, I call BS on at times. I have a brain and I use it based on common sense. Which is why I have a short fuse when I see a lack of it.

Seeing China as a threat as well as the fringes, I agree with you on. I guess I disagree with the source of their strength. The media is giving so much attention to the fringes because it causes a reaction which creates ratings. Ignore them and they go away, lose impact, in my opinion.

China, for sure! But, I say internal because we are doing everything we can to empower them. They are taking over the world financially. They are getting into Africa and South America for mining of rare earth materials. They are about to do the same in Afghanistan. They will take over Russia soon as their monetary system collapses. Everything this administration is doing is playing right into their hands. The extreme push for green energy, the slow collapse of our energy sector, and the pandemic showed our reliance on them for manufacturing.

Our politicians, are getting rich off of investments in China. This admin is radically changing our country by giving into the extreme left. And the media is watching it all happen and enjoying it. That's why I say that it's internal. And yes it can change at the midterms, but how much damage will be done by then. They know it's coming and are literally trying to cram as much down our throats as they can.

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

FYI, don't watch any news. I don't believe any of it. When I post a link it's usually too provoke thought. I listen to a lot of talk radio and do a lot of reading on history. Even the talk I listen to, I call BS on at times. I have a brain and I use it based on common sense. Which is why I have a short fuse when I see a lack of it.

Seeing China as a threat as well as the fringes, I agree with you on. I guess I disagree with the source of their strength. The media is giving so much attention to the fringes because it causes a reaction which creates ratings. Ignore them and they go away, lose impact, in my opinion.

China, for sure! But, I say internal because we are doing everything we can to empower them. They are taking over the world financially. They are getting into Africa and South America for mining of rare earth materials. They are about to do the same in Afghanistan. They will take over Russia soon as their monetary system collapses. Everything this administration is doing is playing right into their hands. The extreme push for green energy, the slow collapse of our energy sector, and the pandemic showed our reliance on them for manufacturing.

Our politicians, are getting rich off of investments in China. This admin is radically changing our country by giving into the extreme left. And the media is watching it all happen and enjoying it. That's why I say that it's internal. And yes it can change at the midterms, but how much damage will be done by then. They know it's coming and are literally trying to cram as much down our throats as they can.

---

So they are doing what we did in the Middle East due to oil, amd are flush with cash to buy up influence. I don't think we are as we are so in debt. Advantage - China.
And we have a movement to avoid foreign investment - even though there are tangible benefits, as you fear with China.
As for domestic…I'm just not as gloomy as you are about damage that can be done (or not undone).
We came out of the Carter presidency and rebounded just fine.

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

FYI, don't watch any news. I don't believe any of it. When I post a link it's usually too provoke thought. I listen to a lot of talk radio and do a lot of reading on history. Even the talk I listen to, I call BS on at times. I have a brain and I use it based on common sense. Which is why I have a short fuse when I see a lack of it.

Seeing China as a threat as well as the fringes, I agree with you on. I guess I disagree with the source of their strength. The media is giving so much attention to the fringes because it causes a reaction which creates ratings. Ignore them and they go away, lose impact, in my opinion.

China, for sure! But, I say internal because we are doing everything we can to empower them. They are taking over the world financially. They are getting into Africa and South America for mining of rare earth materials. They are about to do the same in Afghanistan. They will take over Russia soon as their monetary system collapses. Everything this administration is doing is playing right into their hands. The extreme push for green energy, the slow collapse of our energy sector, and the pandemic showed our reliance on them for manufacturing.

Our politicians, are getting rich off of investments in China. This admin is radically changing our country by giving into the extreme left. And the media is watching it all happen and enjoying it. That's why I say that it's internal. And yes it can change at the midterms, but how much damage will be done by then. They know it's coming and are literally trying to cram as much down our throats as they can.

---

So they are doing what we did in the Middle East due to oil, amd are flush with cash to buy up influence. I don't think we are as we are so in debt. Advantage - China.
And we have a movement to avoid foreign investment - even though there are tangible benefits, as you fear with China.
As for domestic…I'm just not as gloomy as you are about damage that can be done (or not undone).
We came out of the Carter presidency and rebounded just fine.

---

And who holds a large chunk of that debt that we keep growing it?

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

FYI, don't watch any news. I don't believe any of it. When I post a link it's usually too provoke thought. I listen to a lot of talk radio and do a lot of reading on history. Even the talk I listen to, I call BS on at times. I have a brain and I use it based on common sense. Which is why I have a short fuse when I see a lack of it.

Seeing China as a threat as well as the fringes, I agree with you on. I guess I disagree with the source of their strength. The media is giving so much attention to the fringes because it causes a reaction which creates ratings. Ignore them and they go away, lose impact, in my opinion.

China, for sure! But, I say internal because we are doing everything we can to empower them. They are taking over the world financially. They are getting into Africa and South America for mining of rare earth materials. They are about to do the same in Afghanistan. They will take over Russia soon as their monetary system collapses. Everything this administration is doing is playing right into their hands. The extreme push for green energy, the slow collapse of our energy sector, and the pandemic showed our reliance on them for manufacturing.

Our politicians, are getting rich off of investments in China. This admin is radically changing our country by giving into the extreme left. And the media is watching it all happen and enjoying it. That's why I say that it's internal. And yes it can change at the midterms, but how much damage will be done by then. They know it's coming and are literally trying to cram as much down our throats as they can.

---

So they are doing what we did in the Middle East due to oil, amd are flush with cash to buy up influence. I don't think we are as we are so in debt. Advantage - China.
And we have a movement to avoid foreign investment - even though there are tangible benefits, as you fear with China.
As for domestic…I'm just not as gloomy as you are about damage that can be done (or not undone).
We came out of the Carter presidency and rebounded just fine.

---

And who holds a large chunk of that debt that we keep growing it?

---

Exactly. Advantage China. Thats why they are much much bigger threat than our own internal divisionary groups, IMO.

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

FYI, don't watch any news. I don't believe any of it. When I post a link it's usually too provoke thought. I listen to a lot of talk radio and do a lot of reading on history. Even the talk I listen to, I call BS on at times. I have a brain and I use it based on common sense. Which is why I have a short fuse when I see a lack of it.

Seeing China as a threat as well as the fringes, I agree with you on. I guess I disagree with the source of their strength. The media is giving so much attention to the fringes because it causes a reaction which creates ratings. Ignore them and they go away, lose impact, in my opinion.

China, for sure! But, I say internal because we are doing everything we can to empower them. They are taking over the world financially. They are getting into Africa and South America for mining of rare earth materials. They are about to do the same in Afghanistan. They will take over Russia soon as their monetary system collapses. Everything this administration is doing is playing right into their hands. The extreme push for green energy, the slow collapse of our energy sector, and the pandemic showed our reliance on them for manufacturing.

Our politicians, are getting rich off of investments in China. This admin is radically changing our country by giving into the extreme left. And the media is watching it all happen and enjoying it. That's why I say that it's internal. And yes it can change at the midterms, but how much damage will be done by then. They know it's coming and are literally trying to cram as much down our throats as they can.

---

So they are doing what we did in the Middle East due to oil, amd are flush with cash to buy up influence. I don't think we are as we are so in debt. Advantage - China.
And we have a movement to avoid foreign investment - even though there are tangible benefits, as you fear with China.
As for domestic…I'm just not as gloomy as you are about damage that can be done (or not undone).
We came out of the Carter presidency and rebounded just fine.

---

And who holds a large chunk of that debt that we keep growing it?

---

Exactly. Advantage China. Thats why they are much much bigger threat than our own internal divisionary groups, IMO.

---

I agree with you. It just seems every move we make lately, completely empowers China in every way and weakens our country.

https://thetruedefender.com/lara-logan-shared-the-truth-about-the-history-with-globalists-on-ukraine-watch/?utm_source=jeeng

More truth bombs from Lara Logan on RAV's Cowboy Logic. The root of all evil and the driving force behind almost every problem in the world today can be found in Ukraine. This evil owns almost every single source of news we have. Lara is not one of them.

How many news organizations and leaders around the world are having the same laugh as these two Brits. Total embarrassment.

British reporters ROAST unstable Pelosi LIVE on air— the world is LITERALLY laughing at us pic.twitter.com/qoNaHrHuTm

— Benny (@bennyjohnson) March 17, 2022

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

---

Don't know. I'm much more concerned about cyber attacks that affect our financial industry, our healthcare system, our energy, our defense department --- the basic features of our economy and lives.

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

---

Don't know. I'm much more concerned about cyber attacks that affect our financial industry, our healthcare system, our energy, our defense department --- the basic features of our economy and lives.

---

fair enough...

The reason I asked is because a strong number of Democratic lawmakers believe (prior to the election) and were concerned of the impact it may have. Personally, I'm with them...

It todays world, war has transitioned from the traditional mindset we have. Kinetic is the old fashioned way of war. It's being exhibited in Ukraine right now. There is a book called "Unrestricted Warfare" that explains the different types of warfare.

Kinetic
Cyber
Economic
Informational

I "believe" we have started Economic Warfare on Russia when we attacked their economy. We put an all assault on the Ruble to collapse it. It worked! Russia shut down their markets for a coupe of weeks. I think they may be opening them as of today. Again, I "believe" that was an act of war, on our part. So, that makes You and I combatants in the war. How will they respond? Probably via cyber.

So, the very idea of a Cyber Attack on our systems, is real, as you showed concerns. I also, agree, we have to do things in order to protect ourselves, very much like buying more missiles, planes, etc...

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

---

Don't know. I'm much more concerned about cyber attacks that affect our financial industry, our healthcare system, our energy, our defense department --- the basic features of our economy and lives.

---

fair enough...

The reason I asked is because a strong number of Democratic lawmakers believe (prior to the election) and were concerned of the impact it may have. Personally, I'm with them...

It todays world, war has transitioned from the traditional mindset we have. Kinetic is the old fashioned way of war. It's being exhibited in Ukraine right now. There is a book called "Unrestricted Warfare" that explains the different types of warfare.

Kinetic
Cyber
Economic
Informational

I "believe" we have started Economic Warfare on Russia when we attacked their economy. We put an all assault on the Ruble to collapse it. It worked! Russia shut down their markets for a coupe of weeks. I think they may be opening them as of today. Again, I "believe" that was an act of war, on our part. So, that makes You and I combatants in the war. How will they respond? Probably via cyber.

So, the very idea of a Cyber Attack on our systems, is real, as you showed concerns. I also, agree, we have to do things in order to protect ourselves, very much like buying more missiles, planes, etc...

---

agreed too -- the financial "warfare" on Russia is interesting -- and frankly, credit where credit is due, a good move by Biden and NATO, etc.
Tough to sustain support for a war where you are the aggressor when your people are finding themselves under financial hardship and no longer interested in what is happening in a land 99% of them do not care about.

I do think this is the new warfare --- and why China concerns me, especially with the purse strings they hold (of course, at this point, they benefit from us being wealthy).

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

---

Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

---

Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

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Don't know. I'm much more concerned about cyber attacks that affect our financial industry, our healthcare system, our energy, our defense department --- the basic features of our economy and lives.

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fair enough...

The reason I asked is because a strong number of Democratic lawmakers believe (prior to the election) and were concerned of the impact it may have. Personally, I'm with them...

It todays world, war has transitioned from the traditional mindset we have. Kinetic is the old fashioned way of war. It's being exhibited in Ukraine right now. There is a book called "Unrestricted Warfare" that explains the different types of warfare.

Kinetic
Cyber
Economic
Informational

I "believe" we have started Economic Warfare on Russia when we attacked their economy. We put an all assault on the Ruble to collapse it. It worked! Russia shut down their markets for a coupe of weeks. I think they may be opening them as of today. Again, I "believe" that was an act of war, on our part. So, that makes You and I combatants in the war. How will they respond? Probably via cyber.

So, the very idea of a Cyber Attack on our systems, is real, as you showed concerns. I also, agree, we have to do things in order to protect ourselves, very much like buying more missiles, planes, etc...

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agreed too -- the financial "warfare" on Russia is interesting -- and frankly, credit where credit is due, a good move by Biden and NATO, etc.
Tough to sustain support for a war where you are the aggressor when your people are finding themselves under financial hardship and no longer interested in what is happening in a land 99% of them do not care about.

I do think this is the new warfare --- and why China concerns me, especially with the purse strings they hold (of course, at this point, they benefit from us being wealthy).

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My only concern with this is the going after the Oligarchs money and property. To me that's a very slippery slop that could be translated to something similar to what Canada did with the truckers protest in taking away private citizens banking ability

hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Okay, do you believe anything the media tells you?

ETA: What do you believe or biggest threat is?

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Split the diff on media - take in several sources and use judgement. I find it a bit disgusting to go to Fox / CNN sites amd see the huge differences in how their front pages cover the same news. If you are looking to be led one way…they sure make it easy

Our biggest threat - financial and cyber threats from other China. As we see in limited attacks, cyber can be bad news

Internally the increased voice the fringes get. These are groups we'd routinely ignore….but many have gotten smart with social messaging and make their message veiled with just enough "normalcy" to be acceptable…

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Chem, do you believe we had cyber attacks that affected the 2016 election?

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Don't know. I'm much more concerned about cyber attacks that affect our financial industry, our healthcare system, our energy, our defense department --- the basic features of our economy and lives.

---

fair enough...

The reason I asked is because a strong number of Democratic lawmakers believe (prior to the election) and were concerned of the impact it may have. Personally, I'm with them...

It todays world, war has transitioned from the traditional mindset we have. Kinetic is the old fashioned way of war. It's being exhibited in Ukraine right now. There is a book called "Unrestricted Warfare" that explains the different types of warfare.

Kinetic
Cyber
Economic
Informational

I "believe" we have started Economic Warfare on Russia when we attacked their economy. We put an all assault on the Ruble to collapse it. It worked! Russia shut down their markets for a coupe of weeks. I think they may be opening them as of today. Again, I "believe" that was an act of war, on our part. So, that makes You and I combatants in the war. How will they respond? Probably via cyber.

So, the very idea of a Cyber Attack on our systems, is real, as you showed concerns. I also, agree, we have to do things in order to protect ourselves, very much like buying more missiles, planes, etc...

---

agreed too -- the financial "warfare" on Russia is interesting -- and frankly, credit where credit is due, a good move by Biden and NATO, etc.
Tough to sustain support for a war where you are the aggressor when your people are finding themselves under financial hardship and no longer interested in what is happening in a land 99% of them do not care about.

I do think this is the new warfare --- and why China concerns me, especially with the purse strings they hold (of course, at this point, they benefit from us being wealthy).

---

My only concern with this is the going after the Oligarchs money and property. To me that's a very slippery slop that could be translated to something similar to what Canada did with the truckers protest in taking away private citizens banking ability

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I don't disagree with that. Thats why it really does fit the narrative of "warfare", and clearly things go off the rails in warfare.

I know its about much more than sports....but I've also been amazed at the rally against Russian athletes -- many of whom of course have no vested interest, other than their athletic training. Or the owner of Chelsea and the forced removal from that club.....do wonder the repurcussions a year or two down the line when things return to normal.

I think you guys may have missed my point. In a world of unrestricted warfare, I believe the actions taken by the Biden admin should have been brought to congress (or the people).

Only congress can declare war!

Now, as far as the action of what we did, I do not agree with it. The people that are being hurt are the Russian people. We don't know how many of them support or do not support Putins actions. Nonetheless, they are now living with the Ruble being worth about .01 to the US dollar. That action is hurting potentially the wrong people.

Putin and the Oligarchs live off their primary source. Oil! I would have stopped all buying of oil from Russia as well as find every means possible to get more supply domestically and sell it into Europe. This would have killed Putin!. Remember, the Oligarch's are only skimmer's off the profits and Putin allows it to happen.

As far as the oligarchs are concerned, once we confiscate certain assets, they will make it up quickly from the skim. They don't really care, in the big scheme.

My hunch tells me that Biden's actions are because he is hoping for regime change. If true, aren't we tired of that kind of thinking? If true, do we think the next person in line is going to be any better than Putin?

caryking said:

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Putin and the Oligarchs live off their primary source. Oil! I would have stopped all buying of oil from Russia as well as find every means possible to get more supply domestically and sell it into Europe. This would have killed Putin!. Remember, the Oligarch's are only skimmer's off the profits and Putin allows it to happen.

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Our current administration will never allow this to happen. Whitmer is trying to have yet another line shut down in Michigan.

Steve Videtich said:

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caryking said:

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Putin and the Oligarchs live off their primary source. Oil! I would have stopped all buying of oil from Russia as well as find every means possible to get more supply domestically and sell it into Europe. This would have killed Putin!. Remember, the Oligarch's are only skimmer's off the profits and Putin allows it to happen.

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Our current administration will never allow this to happen. Whitmer is trying to have yet another line shut down in Michigan.

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Isn't that sad? Like I said earlier, we don't need China to cause is to crumble. In fact, we are perfectly capable of doing it ourselves…

Steve Videtich said:

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caryking said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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caryking said:

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Putin and the Oligarchs live off their primary source. Oil! I would have stopped all buying of oil from Russia as well as find every means possible to get more supply domestically and sell it into Europe. This would have killed Putin!. Remember, the Oligarch's are only skimmer's off the profits and Putin allows it to happen.

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Our current administration will never allow this to happen. Whitmer is trying to have yet another line shut down in Michigan.

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Isn't that sad? Like I said earlier, we don't need China to cause is to crumble. In fact, we are perfectly capable of doing it ourselves…

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Almost makes you wonder if it's intentional, doesn't it!

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Doesn't make me wonder at all. I'm confident!