Just heard that there is an investigation into Russian funded advocation for anti-US drilling and fracking groups.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/03/democrats-are-padding-fossil-fuel-companies-profits/

Quote:

---

American families are experiencing the worst inflation in living memory. Inflation is rising faster than at any time during the 1970s up to 7.9 percent from just 1.2 percent in Donald Trump's last year in office. But that's nothing compared with what's happening at the pump, where gasoline prices are shattering all records, and now electricity prices are soaring, too.

The Biden administration is reducing the amount of federal land available for oil and gas production, while canceling or slow-walking leases. When a federal judge blocked new guidelines that would have required cost-benefit analyses to be skewed by climate impacts, the Department of Interior retaliated by halting all new federal oil and gas leases.

In April 2021, a federal court vacated a key permit for the nearly-complete Dakota Access Pipeline, and the pipeline has been in limbo ever since, with the administration making little effort to revive it.

Adding to the industry's worries, last summer's proposed listing of the lesser prairie-chicken under the Endangered Species Act could halt oil and gas drilling in the most important patches of Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico.

Next week, the Securities and Exchange Commission is expected to propose a new rule that would require all publicly traded companies to disclose their greenhouse-gas emissions as well as their estimates of climate risk. Any banks or investment funds that invest in fossil-fuel companies will have to "report" on how they are worsening climate change, subjecting those companies to public shaming and possible regulatory penalties. This can only increase the cost of capital for energy companies seeking to expand production.

New rules will require pipeline companies, liquefied natural gas (LNG) export facilities, and other energy infrastructure projects to report and reassess greenhouse-gas emissions at every stage in the federal approval process. As James Danly, a commissioner of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), recently testified to the Senate, the new rules will smother natural-gas investments and hence the nation's electricity sector in additional delays, costs, and uncertainty.

It could get much worse. The strategy behind Obama's Clean Power Plan was basically to foist California's suicidal regulation of electricity on the rest of the country. Because of renewable-energy mandates and other anti-fossil-fuel measures, Californians pay about 66 percent more for electricity than residents in the rest of the country. Depending on what the EPA does next, those increases could be coming to your neighborhood soon.

The Biden administration's anti-fossil-fuel policies are totally counterproductive, even to the goal of transitioning to "clean energy." The political obstacles to the Biden administration's clean-energy goals are daunting enough as it is.

---

Yes, Joe, it is your fault. No matter how many lies you tell or how many narratives you spin, it will remain your fault. 2024 can't get here fast enough!

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Some seem to believe that I believe that current policy at the border is fine. To clarify again I don't believe that nor do I believe that a wall and stepped up enforcement is the cure all for illegal immigration.

I don't believe that because I feel that it is a natural human nature to improve one's lot in life and being the the opportunity is greater in the US than any other nation in the world we should have an immigration policy that meets the demand of those who want to migrate to the US. Until that happens, you will NEVER get rid of illegal immigration.

It doesn't matter how high of wall you build humans are going to human

---

The wall and enforcement are meant to force people through the proper channels of legal immigration. I think we both agree that the proper channels is where the process needs adjusting. If someone is not willing to go through the proper channels, then maybe we don't want them here. We need to know who is coming into this country. Remember 9-11?

But again, we need to streamline the process.

---

I think if someone is willing to pay thousands to the cartels, then risk their life for each part of the journey, cross into the US in the desert and do all this without any guarantee for success and that's the EASIEST way to immigrate into the US, I question the process, not the person.

---

Really? They wouldn't do the same thing if they had a reason to evade the process...evade the authorities?

ETA: If they can afford to pay thousands to the cartel, why not go through the process and use that money to start your life in the US?

---

because Steve it is easier to get into the US illegally than legally. This is my point. This seems to be the point that you all are missing. The way to end illegal immigration is to provide more access to legal immigration. These people don't want to choose the path I described. They WOULD like to do so legally, it's just that that's impossible to do so.

There is never going to be a way for the US to limit the amount of people who want to come in from the Southern border except to increase the supply of means of legal entry.

BYW the going rate to pay cartels to get into the US is around $2500.

---

The only other way would be to make it better to stay in Central America. But most of those countries are led by despots who make Trump/Biden/any American leader look like saints.
In my experience, most people there live like rural poor people did in America 100 years ago.

So yeah....turning to America is by far the better option. In the community I've worked, we helped build a computer lab where people could learn English, as that clearly benefits them tremendously even in country. A few of those adult men who've learned were given a chance with a farm in the midwest to live there seasonally (and within the legal restrictions) to work on a potato farm.

But those kinds of opportunities are few and far between. And most young boys -- early teens -- are highly influenced to drop out of school b/c they need to work to make $$ for the family...so the circle continues -- until one of them can get to US and make real $$. They KNOW the risks -- specifically the risk of death / rape / violence on the trip, but the tradeoff is just too much, and the alternatives (the "legal" process") is just not readily available to most folks. Just as I'm sure it would not have been if a legal process had been in place when millions of Irish or Italians were coming over in the 1800s. There, but for the grace of God....

---

So Chem, that begs the question with the other part of my argument. Where does all the money go that we send to these countries for development purposes? Do we have any follow up on this money and how it's being used? If these countries were to improve, the lure of the US wouldn't be as desirable.

But, I just don't see how it makes sense for us to send millions to these countries for so many to only want to leave. If we want to take these people in, then we have to cut off the funding to these countries and use it here.

---

If chem is so passionate about these areas of concern, I would suggest he roll up his sleeves and move there. Raise private capital and build better education systems where the problems are.

The US is not the holding ground for all in need!!

---

LOL. The ol'' "if you don't like it, move out" from a guy who whines about the government multiple times every day.

I actually have been down there, a number of times. I don't pretend to understand it all....just bringing forth the human element, and the relative stupidity of telling people who live in abject poverty and are looking to make things better to "follow the law".

---

Chem, I think you will find most people are very sensitive to the plight of those in poverty, wherever they are. I can feel that way and still want a wall built. The US sends money all over the world to help. What are the results of those dollars? well, who knows...

What we do know is that the war on our border is out of control. It is a war when 100's of thousand of people are dying every year from fentanyl overdoses. I'm not blaming that on the impoverished; however, they are helping the situation by attempting to come here.

Regarding following the law: it is stated that 75% of the illegals that get here never come back for their hearing. So, they break the law coming here, then they break the law by not coming back for their hearing. No offense, but, that's not a stellar record for those that you point out as bringing a human element...

---

LOL, yeah I'm not sure the ignorance of equating normal people trying to pursue a better life with the criminals bringing fentanyl to the States qualifies as "very sensitive to the plight", but again, you're not about the plight, you're about nationalism.

As for the rest of your statement....I'll say again, "there but for the grace of God". We're very fortunate. I'd hate to have been born in a poor, backwards, criminally governed country....I know you're a God and law-fearing fella here in the States, but I also think you'd probalby see things differenlty if you had so much stacked against you.

What is really ironic about your last point is....you don't trust our government, despite the good life you have here (in part educated by that same government), yet you admonish a bunch of people who don't speak the language and know the customs -- and have been taught to fear the government especially under Trump -- to trust them).

Where's BBW?

PackFansXL said:

---

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/03/democrats-are-padding-fossil-fuel-companies-profits/

Quote:

---

American families are experiencing the worst inflation in living memory. Inflation is rising faster than at any time during the 1970s up to 7.9 percent from just 1.2 percent in Donald Trump's last year in office. But that's nothing compared with what's happening at the pump, where gasoline prices are shattering all records, and now electricity prices are soaring, too.

The Biden administration is reducing the amount of federal land available for oil and gas production, while canceling or slow-walking leases. When a federal judge blocked new guidelines that would have required cost-benefit analyses to be skewed by climate impacts, the Department of Interior retaliated by halting all new federal oil and gas leases.

In April 2021, a federal court vacated a key permit for the nearly-complete Dakota Access Pipeline, and the pipeline has been in limbo ever since, with the administration making little effort to revive it.

Adding to the industry's worries, last summer's proposed listing of the lesser prairie-chicken under the Endangered Species Act could halt oil and gas drilling in the most important patches of Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico.

Next week, the Securities and Exchange Commission is expected to propose a new rule that would require all publicly traded companies to disclose their greenhouse-gas emissions as well as their estimates of climate risk. Any banks or investment funds that invest in fossil-fuel companies will have to "report" on how they are worsening climate change, subjecting those companies to public shaming and possible regulatory penalties. This can only increase the cost of capital for energy companies seeking to expand production.

New rules will require pipeline companies, liquefied natural gas (LNG) export facilities, and other energy infrastructure projects to report and reassess greenhouse-gas emissions at every stage in the federal approval process. As James Danly, a commissioner of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), recently testified to the Senate, the new rules will smother natural-gas investments and hence the nation's electricity sector in additional delays, costs, and uncertainty.

It could get much worse. The strategy behind Obama's Clean Power Plan was basically to foist California's suicidal regulation of electricity on the rest of the country. Because of renewable-energy mandates and other anti-fossil-fuel measures, Californians pay about 66 percent more for electricity than residents in the rest of the country. Depending on what the EPA does next, those increases could be coming to your neighborhood soon.

The Biden administration's anti-fossil-fuel policies are totally counterproductive, even to the goal of transitioning to "clean energy." The political obstacles to the Biden administration's clean-energy goals are daunting enough as it is.

---

Yes, Joe, it is your fault. No matter how many lies you tell or how many narratives you spin, it will remain your fault. 2024 can't get here fast enough!

---

Agreed. Hate to wish time by but this guy is going to wreck us.

PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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mrcpack17 said:

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caryking said:

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mrcpack17 said:

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caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

---

lol to that last part. Neither of those guys personally insulted you.

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

---

lol to that last part. Neither of those guys personally insulted you.

---

ok, condescending...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/biden-good-man-god-ever-created-needs-go-anybody-everybody-tries-prop-putin-lindsey-graham/

The Uniparty .....

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

---

The Fentanyl is a popular red herring. All thru this argument over the past few pages -- no one -- NO ONE -- is suggesting to allow criminals nor illegal immigrants into the US.
But you, and others, keep falling back to that.

Hey...if this helps -- IF we catch someone brining fentanyl into the States, punish them to the extent of the law. When we catch illegal immigrants, send them back.
But, by bringing that up, it allows you to bring up "their fault", "bad people", "war" and other inflammatory means to create broad brush negative stereotypes.

I think the discussion has been more around assuming any policy or wall or ____ is going to stop this migration, or that migration is necessarily a bad thing. We're all here because of it.

As for the rest...give me a break...coming from you, is especially rich.

---

Chem, I'll try to be more tactful...

How many people died from overdoses of Fentanyl in 2021?

If we can stop the flow of it, then that would be a good thing, right?

The migration of people, on the southern border, that has happened since 2021, is illegal, according our laws. I'm not sure why this is an issue. It sounds like its not, for you (based on your last post)

Again, I haven't said the people coming cross our border are bad people. Are there some bad people, in the group? Absolutely

I will say this, people that intentionally break the law are committing a.... CRIME!
Illegals coming into the US, on our southern border, are breaking a law, so that's a.... CRIME!!

Go and look at statistics from 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 and compare them to 2021. If you don't find we have an increase in illegal crossing, at our southern border, then, I'll say I am wrong.

"We're all here because of immigration". Is that True? Do you know my ancestry?

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

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lol to that last part. Neither of those guys personally insulted you.

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ok, condescending...

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Cary, your guy you opine for to come back here would not debate you on points but would just belittle and throw insults. Both of these guys debated you on points.

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I am assuming you're talking about my post about BBW? That was a joke.

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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mrcpack17 said:

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caryking said:

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mrcpack17 said:

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caryking said:

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BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

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fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

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For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

---

The Fentanyl is a popular red herring. All thru this argument over the past few pages -- no one -- NO ONE -- is suggesting to allow criminals nor illegal immigrants into the US.
But you, and others, keep falling back to that.

Hey...if this helps -- IF we catch someone brining fentanyl into the States, punish them to the extent of the law. When we catch illegal immigrants, send them back.
But, by bringing that up, it allows you to bring up "their fault", "bad people", "war" and other inflammatory means to create broad brush negative stereotypes.

I think the discussion has been more around assuming any policy or wall or ____ is going to stop this migration, or that migration is necessarily a bad thing. We're all here because of it.

As for the rest...give me a break...coming from you, is especially rich.

---

Chem, I'll try to be more tactful...

How many people died from overdoses of Fentanyl in 2021?

If we can stop the flow of it, then that would be a good thing, right?

The migration of people, on the southern border, that has happened since 2021, is illegal, according our laws. I'm not sure why this is an issue. It sounds like its not, for you (based on your last post)

Again, I haven't said the people coming cross our border are bad people. Are there some bad people, in the group? Absolutely

I will say this, people that intentionally break the law are committing a.... CRIME!
Illegals coming into the US, on our southern border, are breaking a law, so that's a.... CRIME!!

Go and look at statistics from 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 and compare them to 2021. If you don't find we have an increase in illegal crossing, at our southern border, then, I'll say I am wrong.

"We're all here because of immigration". Is that True? Do you know my ancestry?

---

Like I said before, none of us have said we're trying to keep out the people with good intentions. But, to pretend that the people with bad intentions aren't a part of the same group of illegals is just being wilfully ignorant. Immigrants can definitely help our country. But, they can also do damage. See 9/11

Steve Videtich said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

mrcpack17 said:

---

caryking said:

---

BTW, should these illegals get US citizenship?

Also, what does everyone think about Russia invading Ukraine? Is Russia invading their National borders? Is this an attack on their Nationalism?

I believe the illegals coming in (roughly 1.5-2.0 million in 2021) is an attack on our Nationalism!!! An argument can be made that this is a war on America.


D-day (WW2) had about 156K allied forces hit the ground on the first days. February 2022 had 158K illegals hit our boarder.

---

Are migrants rolling across our borders with tanks? And destroying cities? Killing civilians? Is this a serious analogy you're making? Do you know any migrants? I know quite a few. One is now (thanks to DACA) a radiologist. Another is a large animal vet. Another works at a food truck. They all pay taxes and contribute to society yet you think they are attacking our borders? Sheesh man.

---

fentanyl kills citizens and it's coming across the border with illegal immigrants!! So, based on your points, then yes, its a war!!!

Scratch that below...

It really doesn't make a difference if I know illegal immigrants or not, does it? But, since you are wanting to swing a big dick, when would you like to compare the amount of personal money you've given to people impoverished? I feel very comfortable putting that on the table with you. I hope you will beat me by the way you talk...

---

Are migrants shoving fentanyl down the throats of US citizens? Are they forcing US citizens to become addicted?

Fentanyl is a horrendous problem, I agree with you there, but to pretend that migrants are the sole cause, or even a major cause at all is quite the feat of mental gymnastics that my brain is not flexible enough to perform.

---

Yeah, its like some fool saying NC Christmas tree farmers are a problem because some bad people in the NC Mountains are cooking meth right next to their properties.

---

For someone who expresses extreme hatred for mean-spirited tweets by Trump, you have learned to channel the technique quite well. I believe you're better than this.

---

i mean, the comment itself was very Trumpian -- which was not surprising given its source. You know, generalize a whole group of people and label them with the worst of the lot.

ETA: And mean spirited tweets are the very essence of Twitter. But its just not what a President should be doing.

---

Chem and the other person...

I don't think I said Mexicans and other people are bad people. I have said that we are getting fentanyl from people crossing the border. Where else are we getting the stuff? Based on that and the other person statements that's a war on the US.

It appear that you guys are always looking at things from a racial/ethnic stand point. I'm not. I am pointing out things that are a problem for this country (my opinion). You don't have to like my opinion; however, you also don't have to act like an ass when responding to my opinion.

Just give your opinion and move on... It's funny, you're acting just like the person that you (probably) wanted off the board...

---

The Fentanyl is a popular red herring. All thru this argument over the past few pages -- no one -- NO ONE -- is suggesting to allow criminals nor illegal immigrants into the US.
But you, and others, keep falling back to that.

Hey...if this helps -- IF we catch someone brining fentanyl into the States, punish them to the extent of the law. When we catch illegal immigrants, send them back.
But, by bringing that up, it allows you to bring up "their fault", "bad people", "war" and other inflammatory means to create broad brush negative stereotypes.

I think the discussion has been more around assuming any policy or wall or ____ is going to stop this migration, or that migration is necessarily a bad thing. We're all here because of it.

As for the rest...give me a break...coming from you, is especially rich.

---

Chem, I'll try to be more tactful...

How many people died from overdoses of Fentanyl in 2021?

If we can stop the flow of it, then that would be a good thing, right?

The migration of people, on the southern border, that has happened since 2021, is illegal, according our laws. I'm not sure why this is an issue. It sounds like its not, for you (based on your last post)

Again, I haven't said the people coming cross our border are bad people. Are there some bad people, in the group? Absolutely

I will say this, people that intentionally break the law are committing a.... CRIME!
Illegals coming into the US, on our southern border, are breaking a law, so that's a.... CRIME!!

Go and look at statistics from 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 and compare them to 2021. If you don't find we have an increase in illegal crossing, at our southern border, then, I'll say I am wrong.

"We're all here because of immigration". Is that True? Do you know my ancestry?

---

Like I said before, none of us have said we're trying to keep out the people with good intentions. But, to pretend that the people with bad intentions aren't a part of the same group of illegals is just being wilfully ignorant. Immigrants can definitely help our country. But, they can also do damage. See 9/11

---

Actually, I think we should keep out people with good intentions. That said, the surge of people coming here has been invited by this administration. For that, I understand the action.

I'm sure I have a different mindset (perhaps worldview) than others…

We have border/immigration laws that should absolutely be enforced. That statement comes from a non-emotional point of view.

Based on the mindset that people should be allowed to come here and we should be understanding for whatever reason, what other laws should be considered (basically, look the other way) for a similar understanding?

https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/the-new-york-times-hates-to-say-the-post-told-you-so/

https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/lawyer-for-mother-of-hunter-bidens-child-lunden-roberts-says-he-expects-presidents-son-to-be-indicted/

Big tech and media exposed for what they are…cover for Biden.

packofwolves said:

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https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/the-new-york-times-hates-to-say-the-post-told-you-so/

https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/lawyer-for-mother-of-hunter-bidens-child-lunden-roberts-says-he-expects-presidents-son-to-be-indicted/

Big tech and media exposed for what they are…cover for Biden.

---

I think we need to remember Biden, as VP, bragging about withholding money until some Ukraine official fires the prosecutor investigating corruption.

Was that corruption related to Hunters dealings over there?
Was that also related to the "Big Guy" on Hunters laptop?

We need to find out clearly if this President is compromised. I have my suspicions; however, wouldn't it be nice to see a real investigation into enough smoking guns within our government?

caryking said:

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packofwolves said:

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https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/the-new-york-times-hates-to-say-the-post-told-you-so/

https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/lawyer-for-mother-of-hunter-bidens-child-lunden-roberts-says-he-expects-presidents-son-to-be-indicted/

Big tech and media exposed for what they are…cover for Biden.

---

I think we need to remember Biden, as VP, bragging about withholding money until some Ukraine official fires the prosecutor investigating corruption.

Was that corruption related to Hunters dealings over there?
Was that also related to the "Big Guy" on Hunters laptop?

We need to find out clearly if this President is compromised. I have my suspicions; however, wouldn't it be nice to see a real investigation into enough smoking guns within our government?

---

I doubt there will ever be a real investigation with Biden in office and Dems in control. Joe outright lied about the laptop. He knew, they all did.

I see what you did there.

packgrad said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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The ideas that a law should not be enforced if it's easy to break, or that the poor should not be expected to follow the law, are some of the dumbest ideas I've heard against enforcement of immigration policy. Having said that, It's a pretty standard mindset from the left. Its this type of mindset that leads to $9 million homes in California with a homeless encampment and a pile of human feces on the driveway out front. Or in NY and California the mass smash and grab robberies.

They shame you for saying that a law should be enforced on these poor, innocent, hard working people, and call you an -ist, and say it's -ism to expect the law to be enforced. They say it's not a slippery slope. It's just this one little issue they want flex on. Why are you so rigid in your -ist -ism?

It's the same play card they've been playing since Obama. It's why we have men swimming in women's NCAA events.

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that's a great statement except no one is arguing that.

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Your message board name is "hokiewolf", not "no one".

---

Hokie, isn't packgrad's point (arguing) the context of all this? I believe it is. For me, we have to different sides of the same coin:

Side one: people coming from impoverished areas wanting to improve their lives - I fully understand and empathize with them. It's a truly heart felt moment watching these families do everything they can for a better life.

Side two: the US has laws that need to be enforced. We are a nation of laws.

The question I have is: can we compartmentalize? I can!

^ good one, ha!

hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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packgrad said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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The ideas that a law should not be enforced if it's easy to break, or that the poor should not be expected to follow the law, are some of the dumbest ideas I've heard against enforcement of immigration policy. Having said that, It's a pretty standard mindset from the left. Its this type of mindset that leads to $9 million homes in California with a homeless encampment and a pile of human feces on the driveway out front. Or in NY and California the mass smash and grab robberies.

They shame you for saying that a law should be enforced on these poor, innocent, hard working people, and call you an -ist, and say it's -ism to expect the law to be enforced. They say it's not a slippery slope. It's just this one little issue they want flex on. Why are you so rigid in your -ist -ism?

It's the same play card they've been playing since Obama. It's why we have men swimming in women's NCAA events.

---

that's a great statement except no one is arguing that.

---

Your message board name is "hokiewolf", not "no one".

---

Hokie, isn't packgrad's point (arguing) the context of all this? I believe it is. For me, we have to different sides of the same coin:

Side one: people coming from impoverished areas wanting to improve their lives - I fully understand and empathize with them. It's a truly heart felt moment watching these families do everything they can for a better life.

Side two: the US has laws that need to be enforced. We are a nation of laws.

The question I have is: can we compartmentalize? I can!

---

I've never said that the laws shouldn't be applied. Again I AM NOT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. But I also do not believe building a big beautiful wall and stepping up enforcement of the law is going to stop illegal immigration.

Therefore packgrad (like he likes to do and argue points no one is making) is incorrect on my position as you are as well.

The definition of nativism:

the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.

Is this not what most of you are defending?

---

Hokie, slow down a moment, please...

the post you are responding to never mentioned your position on anything. My post was how "I" can take an issue and see different perspectives. Then, I asked a question on whether others can compartmentalize.

I'm not sure I get your commentary (nativism) and how its related to my post.

Addressing your first point: we can agree to disagree on a wall. I believe we have evidence where the wall has been built has shifted the illegal crossings to other areas. Based on that, my suspicion (to been seen) supports the idea of finishing the wall.

I don't know if you have an opinion on the wall, other than what's been stated. So share, if you do...

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

The ideas that a law should not be enforced if it's easy to break, or that the poor should not be expected to follow the law, are some of the dumbest ideas I've heard against enforcement of immigration policy. Having said that, It's a pretty standard mindset from the left. Its this type of mindset that leads to $9 million homes in California with a homeless encampment and a pile of human feces on the driveway out front. Or in NY and California the mass smash and grab robberies.

They shame you for saying that a law should be enforced on these poor, innocent, hard working people, and call you an -ist, and say it's -ism to expect the law to be enforced. They say it's not a slippery slope. It's just this one little issue they want flex on. Why are you so rigid in your -ist -ism?

It's the same play card they've been playing since Obama. It's why we have men swimming in women's NCAA events.

---

that's a great statement except no one is arguing that.

---

Your message board name is "hokiewolf", not "no one".

---

Hokie, isn't packgrad's point (arguing) the context of all this? I believe it is. For me, we have to different sides of the same coin:

Side one: people coming from impoverished areas wanting to improve their lives - I fully understand and empathize with them. It's a truly heart felt moment watching these families do everything they can for a better life.

Side two: the US has laws that need to be enforced. We are a nation of laws.

The question I have is: can we compartmentalize? I can!

---

I've never said that the laws shouldn't be applied. Again I AM NOT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. But I also do not believe building a big beautiful wall and stepping up enforcement of the law is going to stop illegal immigration.

Therefore packgrad (like he likes to do and argue points no one is making) is incorrect on my position as you are as well.

The definition of nativism:

the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.

Is this not what most of you are defending?

---

Hokie, slow down a moment, please...

the post you are responding to never mentioned your position on anything. My post was how "I" can take an issue and see different perspectives. Then, I asked a question on whether others can compartmentalize.

I'm not sure I get the commentary (nativism) not related to my post.

Addressing your first point: we can agree to disagree on a wall. I believe we have evidence where the wall has been built has shifted the illegal crossings to other areas. Based on that, my suspicion (to been seen) supports the idea of finishing the wall.

I don't know if you have an opinion on the wall, other than what's been stated. So share, if you do...

---

hey finish the wall all you want, it's not going to work. You won't be able to build a wall tall enough or beautiful enough to keep people out.

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

The ideas that a law should not be enforced if it's easy to break, or that the poor should not be expected to follow the law, are some of the dumbest ideas I've heard against enforcement of immigration policy. Having said that, It's a pretty standard mindset from the left. Its this type of mindset that leads to $9 million homes in California with a homeless encampment and a pile of human feces on the driveway out front. Or in NY and California the mass smash and grab robberies.

They shame you for saying that a law should be enforced on these poor, innocent, hard working people, and call you an -ist, and say it's -ism to expect the law to be enforced. They say it's not a slippery slope. It's just this one little issue they want flex on. Why are you so rigid in your -ist -ism?

It's the same play card they've been playing since Obama. It's why we have men swimming in women's NCAA events.

---

that's a great statement except no one is arguing that.

---

Your message board name is "hokiewolf", not "no one".

---

Hokie, isn't packgrad's point (arguing) the context of all this? I believe it is. For me, we have to different sides of the same coin:

Side one: people coming from impoverished areas wanting to improve their lives - I fully understand and empathize with them. It's a truly heart felt moment watching these families do everything they can for a better life.

Side two: the US has laws that need to be enforced. We are a nation of laws.

The question I have is: can we compartmentalize? I can!

---

I've never said that the laws shouldn't be applied. Again I AM NOT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. But I also do not believe building a big beautiful wall and stepping up enforcement of the law is going to stop illegal immigration.

Therefore packgrad (like he likes to do and argue points no one is making) is incorrect on my position as you are as well.

The definition of nativism:

the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.

Is this not what most of you are defending? Because I feel like im calling a spade a spade here and it's bad policy for a liberal democratic nation.

---

We are defending our nation from people coming here with bad intentions, not the ones with true intentions of a better life. At least for me. But, we also don't have the resources to bring in the entire world either. There has to be a limit. You seem to be arguing that there should be no limit.

And no a big beautiful wall doesn't end illegal crossings. But it doesn't make it easier either. You know like a wide open border that is severely under manned and underfunded?