Understand your point, there won't be anymore debate about it from me
The Biden Administration
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Last: 2 yr ago by James Henderson
Back to the Biden Administration I have found it extremely curious the attacks on Joe Manchin from his own party regarding the build back better legislation. Do progressives not understand that they don't have an overwhelming majority in the Senate? There is no mandate from the voters that screams they want this bill.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
You make a good point here.hokiewolf said:
Back to the Biden Administration I have found it extremely curious the attacks on Joe Manchin from his own party regarding the build back better legislation. Do progressives not understand that they don't have an overwhelming majority in the Senate? There is no mandate from the voters that screams they want this bill.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
Lets be honest - politicians from both sides of the aisle are not very connected with their voters and probably pay a ton of attention to networks like CNN, MSNBC, and so forth. I also think that for all of the complaining that folks do about Fox and OAN, not that many politicians pay attention to those two networks
Politicians are also surrounded by people who think like them for the most part, so when something like the Build Back Better plan comes up Democrats feel like they have a mandate. I think that's evidenced in the comments like "only one vote is holding back progress" when in reality you don't have 51 votes for your bill and your in the minority.
In all reality the are probably several parts of this bill that a majority of the people in both the house and senate would vote for, and their constituents would support it. The truth is that the democrats have already shown that they'll disregard anyone who disagrees with a word that the they say, so why would the republicans work with them knowing that their ideas will be dismissed out of hand without any discussion at all? Especially when there isn't a framework in place for the spending outside of some highlight. Lets take the universal Pre-K for instance. I though that was already funded. With this apparently being a problem please tell me where it isn't funded at, how much money you need to spend to correct this, a project plan with deadlines, and who will benefit from this directly. How can I support someone getting money for something without telling me how your going to accomplish your goal at all?
To your point, a lot of the political discussion on networks is geared towards DC to Northeast and West Coasts. That's a lot of opinion that is left out of the political discussion on news networks.
I don't think this bill funds universal Pre-K, it's funding universal daycare, which if passed is going to make finding a daycare even worse than it is now, which if you don't have children in daycare is pretty much impossible and when you do find one, whether good or bad, you're locked in for a long time. There is a huge shortage of daycare workers in the Raleigh-Durham area, I suspect that this is also a nationwide issue.
Basically universal daycare is like Obamacare, if you like your daycare, you can keep your daycare. But I'm sure that there will be Easter eggs in this language of the bill that will create issues with that, not to mention the increased competition for services that are already in shortage.
I don't think this bill funds universal Pre-K, it's funding universal daycare, which if passed is going to make finding a daycare even worse than it is now, which if you don't have children in daycare is pretty much impossible and when you do find one, whether good or bad, you're locked in for a long time. There is a huge shortage of daycare workers in the Raleigh-Durham area, I suspect that this is also a nationwide issue.
Basically universal daycare is like Obamacare, if you like your daycare, you can keep your daycare. But I'm sure that there will be Easter eggs in this language of the bill that will create issues with that, not to mention the increased competition for services that are already in shortage.
hokiewolf said:
I don't think this bill funds universal Pre-K, it's funding universal daycare, which if passed is going to make finding a daycare even worse than it is now, which if you don't have children in daycare is pretty much impossible and when you do find one, whether good or bad, you're locked in for a long time. There is a huge shortage of daycare workers in the Raleigh-Durham area, I suspect that this is also a nationwide issue.
Thought I heard the bill required hiring employees with 4 year degrees, which would basically require paying a teachers salary. This in turn would significantly raise daycare costs for those families that don't qualify for free daycare.
That would depend on whether or not Manchin cares about his rep with the home folks versus, say, Richard Burr who doesn't care that he's viewed as a complete traitor in NC.jkpackfan said:
God bless Joe Manchin, hope he doesn't fold.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-sanders-slam-manchin-rejecting-build-back-better
I've said this before:Oldsouljer said:That would depend on whether or not Manchin cares about his rep with the home folks versus, say, Richard Burr who doesn't care that he's viewed as a complete traitor in NC.jkpackfan said:
God bless Joe Manchin, hope he doesn't fold.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-sanders-slam-manchin-rejecting-build-back-better
I went to a Burr fundraiser at a prominent persons house when he was running for Senate. There was a young lady, in college, that lived across the street from me. I asked her if she would like to join my wife and me. She was really into politics as a college student and her parent were close to my wife and me.
After the fundraiser, i asked her what she thought of Burr. She did get to spend some time talking with Burr. She was blown away! What I came to find out is that is was more about the experience than anything else. In other words, very impressionable.
She asked me my opinion of Burr. I said: I will vote for him, as a lesser of two evils; however, he is not a trustworthy person and I believe he will end up being a sleaze bag. The young lady was blown away that I would say that. I said: the political world is not good anymore! These people only care about themselves!
I tell that story because that political world is made up of two groups: elite globalist vs America First
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Oldsouljer said:That would depend on whether or not Manchin cares about his rep with the home folks versus, say, Richard Burr who doesn't care that he's viewed as a complete traitor in NC.jkpackfan said:
God bless Joe Manchin, hope he doesn't fold.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-sanders-slam-manchin-rejecting-build-back-better
Burr doesn't give a damn what the people who elected him say because he isn't running for re-election
Progressives largely aren't good at politics and negotiating with others. They've also worked themselves into a frenzy thinking they must pass "transformative" legislation or they will lose in 22 and 24. Regardless of BBB polling, or Biden's approval rating, they are convinced that their is a silent majority in America who really wants more government support. It's not a reality they live in. But I'd say similarly of anyone who thinks the majority of the electorate is to the right of a standard establishment Republican.hokiewolf said:
Back to the Biden Administration I have found it extremely curious the attacks on Joe Manchin from his own party regarding the build back better legislation. Do progressives not understand that they don't have an overwhelming majority in the Senate? There is no mandate from the voters that screams they want this bill.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
The bill is half baked and sucks on multiple levels. As you said, there are some "good intentions" in it, but they are implemented poorly or not funded. What happens when you try to shove large numbers of major changes into a single bill? They are poorly reasoned and full of unintended consequences. There is also blatant rent seeking by Democratic special interest groups around the SALT cap repeal, Union EVs, and more
I believe it says that daycare workers need to paid at comparable rates to elementary teachers. The degree requirement is muddy, I think it's changed a couple times as they iterate.packofwolves said:hokiewolf said:
I don't think this bill funds universal Pre-K, it's funding universal daycare, which if passed is going to make finding a daycare even worse than it is now, which if you don't have children in daycare is pretty much impossible and when you do find one, whether good or bad, you're locked in for a long time. There is a huge shortage of daycare workers in the Raleigh-Durham area, I suspect that this is also a nationwide issue.
Thought I heard the bill required hiring employees with 4 year degrees, which would basically require paying a teachers salary. This in turn would significantly raise daycare costs for those families that don't qualify for free daycare.
But yes, under pretty much any of the proposed frameworks, costs will go up for middle income to wealthy parents. The pay increases may actually assuage some of Hokie's concerns on supply, but those wage increases will of course be passed on.
what also happened on January 6th, and for that matter January 5th...
https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
and the Dems are for the people... right?IseWolf22 said:I believe it says that daycare workers need to paid at comparable rates to elementary teachers. The degree requirement is muddy, I think it's changed a couple times as they iterate.packofwolves said:hokiewolf said:
I don't think this bill funds universal Pre-K, it's funding universal daycare, which if passed is going to make finding a daycare even worse than it is now, which if you don't have children in daycare is pretty much impossible and when you do find one, whether good or bad, you're locked in for a long time. There is a huge shortage of daycare workers in the Raleigh-Durham area, I suspect that this is also a nationwide issue.
Thought I heard the bill required hiring employees with 4 year degrees, which would basically require paying a teachers salary. This in turn would significantly raise daycare costs for those families that don't qualify for free daycare.
But yes, under pretty much any of the proposed frameworks, costs will go up for middle income to wealthy parents. The pay increases may actually assuage some of Hokie's concerns on supply, but those wage increases will of course be passed on.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
IseWolf22 said:Progressives largely aren't good at politics and negotiating with others. They've also worked themselves into a frenzy thinking they must pass "transformative" legislation or they will lose in 22 and 24. Regardless of BBB polling, or Biden's approval rating, they are convinced that their is a silent majority in America who really wants more government support. It's not a reality they live in. But I'd say similarly of anyone who thinks the majority of the electorate is to the right of a standard establishment Republican.hokiewolf said:
Back to the Biden Administration I have found it extremely curious the attacks on Joe Manchin from his own party regarding the build back better legislation. Do progressives not understand that they don't have an overwhelming majority in the Senate? There is no mandate from the voters that screams they want this bill.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
The bill is half baked and sucks on multiple levels. As you said, there are some "good intentions" in it, but they are implemented poorly or not funded. What happens when you try to shove large numbers of major changes into a single bill? They are poorly reasoned and full of unintended consequences. There is also blatant rent seeking by Democratic special interest groups around the SALT cap repeal, Union EVs, and more
They seem to be playing to the loud, vocal minority. I think the silent majority is starting to wake up. Most of the independents are shifting away from the **** show going on. Even some moderate dems are starting to say, "Okay, we've gone too far off the range here!"
These bloated bills are so full of things that many establishment politicians hope get through without public awareness. The whole lot of them have gotten so full of themselves. It's why I'm all for a full DC reboot.
Add this article to the one above (see above link)…
https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/21/was-the-fbis-whitmer-chicanery-a-warm-up-for-january-6/
https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/21/was-the-fbis-whitmer-chicanery-a-warm-up-for-january-6/
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
I made the drive up to DC from the Gulf Coast and was at the US Capitol that day. I happened to be on the US Supreme Court side but there was one man with similar appearance and bullhorn on that side. He orchestrated the removal of the barriers essentially inciting the efforts to remove barricades/fencing and charging to the three main Capitol building entrances on that side (House, Main Chambers, Senate). I spent time talking to others, etc. One interesting couple that I spent time with were from Mainland China and I posted my short interview of them on Facebook. They described what was going on now in America was exactly what had transpired in China many years back. They urged America to stand up now before it was too late........as in China.caryking said:
Add this article to the one above (see above link)…
https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/21/was-the-fbis-whitmer-chicanery-a-warm-up-for-january-6/
My God, it was cold that day!!!!!!!!!!!!
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
"I tell that story because that political world is made up of two groups: elite globalist vs America First"
You're too far in the Kool-Aid. The political world is made up of one group: "Me First, everyone else can **** off." These America First nincompoops are just playing down to you, sorry to say. They don't give a **** about you, or America - they just know they can make millions off you by spouting out nonsense. Whichever way the easiest wind blows is their moral compass. The wind of today is America First.
I'm sure you think some of these *******s really do believe in what they are saying on TV everyday, but I can assure you they do not.
You're too far in the Kool-Aid. The political world is made up of one group: "Me First, everyone else can **** off." These America First nincompoops are just playing down to you, sorry to say. They don't give a **** about you, or America - they just know they can make millions off you by spouting out nonsense. Whichever way the easiest wind blows is their moral compass. The wind of today is America First.
I'm sure you think some of these *******s really do believe in what they are saying on TV everyday, but I can assure you they do not.
Y'all means ALL.
^ Someone is obviously "triggered" again… might want to go hang out on the Bo Hines thread. You seemed to love that one!
My only contention with this is that I don't beleive that there exists a "silent majority" that actually wants the same thing. Yes most people are unhappy with Biden and Democrats right now. But if you snapped your fingers and Trump was back in office, the majority would hate him too. American's are ideolfgicially very fractionalized right now, with no one group having a meaningful majority.Steve Videtich said:IseWolf22 said:Progressives largely aren't good at politics and negotiating with others. They've also worked themselves into a frenzy thinking they must pass "transformative" legislation or they will lose in 22 and 24. Regardless of BBB polling, or Biden's approval rating, they are convinced that their is a silent majority in America who really wants more government support. It's not a reality they live in. But I'd say similarly of anyone who thinks the majority of the electorate is to the right of a standard establishment Republican.hokiewolf said:
Back to the Biden Administration I have found it extremely curious the attacks on Joe Manchin from his own party regarding the build back better legislation. Do progressives not understand that they don't have an overwhelming majority in the Senate? There is no mandate from the voters that screams they want this bill.
What this bill screams to me however is that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There's a lot of programs in the bill that look the part of "good" but the underlying things that prop up that good clearly show how bad this legislation truly will be.
The bill is half baked and sucks on multiple levels. As you said, there are some "good intentions" in it, but they are implemented poorly or not funded. What happens when you try to shove large numbers of major changes into a single bill? They are poorly reasoned and full of unintended consequences. There is also blatant rent seeking by Democratic special interest groups around the SALT cap repeal, Union EVs, and more
They seem to be playing to the loud, vocal minority. I think the silent majority is starting to wake up. Most of the independents are shifting away from the **** show going on. Even some moderate dems are starting to say, "Okay, we've gone too far off the range here!"
These bloated bills are so full of things that many establishment politicians hope get through without public awareness. The whole lot of them have gotten so full of themselves. It's why I'm all for a full DC reboot.
Party affiliation is dropping every year. More and more people are just tired of the 24/7 political s#!t show. The electorate will probably lurch back and forth every cycle until a party can figure out how to unite multiple political groups with different goals under a common vision. But right now I mostly see purity testing and blind partisanship being sold. It works for a given election is your opponent is bad, but it doesn't really bring more voters into the fold and inspire a movement.
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
Your entire play is leftist propaganda. Excellent example of blind loyalist.
You are totally right that the blind loyalty goes both ways, I won't speak for Steve but I totally agree with you there.Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
The idea that the election was stolen is not, however, new ground. The idea that the 2000 election was not legitimately won by GWB is a mainstream position on the left and has been for a long time. Barbara Boxer voted against certifying the 2004 election because of a conspiracy theory about Diebold voting machines in Ohio. The idea that Trump is/was a Russian asset and was installed by Putin in 2016 got wall to wall coverage for almost his entire presidency and is just as much of a litmus test for the mainstream left as stop the steal.
Jan 6 was an escalation, sure, but also not new ground even in recent history. Wisconsin lawmakers had to flee their capital in 2011 as it was occupied by union members protesting a right to work law.
Those who sat on their hands/looked the other way/paid lip service to all of those things leading up to 2020 laid the ground work for, and created a permission structure for these types of things. The parallel movement on the right was entirely predictable and the asymmetry of coverage/outrage around these incidents fuels the type of thinking that leads to such escalations. Notice, I didn't even have to bring up James Hodgkinson, who was out of the news in about a week.....
You realize that the democrats did the exact same thing after Trump won in 2016, correct?Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
You had Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and others actually give interviews that Trump was not the legitimate president. I remember celebrities giving speeches saying that "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house". I remember the brigades of ***** hats running all over DC along with cars being set on fire and store fronts being destroyed.
You say its new ground but its not....there are loads and loads of evidence that everything you are complaining about happened for the 4 years that Trump was in office.
You say that democracy was challenged by 1/6 and that is unprecedented? I would say that the attempt to assault the white house that forced the president into a bunker and resulted in a secret service building being destroyed, fences being torn down, and over 50 secret service agents being hurt trying to protect the white house during the DC riots last year take the cake. How about when protestors beat on the doors of the Supreme Court building in 2018 during the Kavanaugh appointment? You do know that the leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, actually stood on the steps of the Supreme Court and said that there would be hell to pay if Kavanaugh was nominated...right?
You say that its new ground to challenge the election? I can give you interview after interview by the candidate that was running against Trump, the current speaker of the house (who is #3 in charge of the country), and the current speaker of the senate that all say that Trump is illegitimate. DO you not remember the hashtag #notmypresident that was championed by all of the social media companies and the millions upon millions of people who are on those platforms for years after Trump was elected.
I can talk about unprecedented if you want....Lets talk about the current vice president of the United States of America paying the bail for people who set a federal courthouse on fire in MN. Lets talk about how the Obama administration actually used the FBI and CIA to investigate a political opponent during an election. Lets talk about how it was confirmed that people who supported Hillary Clinton's campaign who worked for the FBI actually passed off made up political opposition research as true and went so far as to get a FISA warrant to listen in on a President's communications.
I can obviously agree with you that 2 wrongs do not make a right....but to take what happened on 1/6 and treat it like it happened in a vacuum without all of the leadup to it by the other political party is disingenuous at best...
I have not heard one Politician, from either side, say the Jan 6 incident was good. We all know it was bad! Now, I posted a link to an article asking questions and laying out facts about other events that happened, on that day.
Those events are NOT to make light of the day; rather, to point out some inconsistencies to the media and left wing narrative. It's funny how no one has commented on the facts, of the report. Why?
Well, we all know why...
To me, multiple happenings, on that day, can be disgusting.
Those events are NOT to make light of the day; rather, to point out some inconsistencies to the media and left wing narrative. It's funny how no one has commented on the facts, of the report. Why?
Well, we all know why...
To me, multiple happenings, on that day, can be disgusting.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
cowboypack02 said:You realize that the democrats did the exact same thing after Trump won in 2016, correct?Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
You had Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and others actually give interviews that Trump was not the legitimate president. I remember celebrities giving speeches saying that "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house". I remember the brigades of ***** hats running all over DC along with cars being set on fire and store fronts being destroyed.
You say its new ground but its not....there are loads and loads of evidence that everything you are complaining about happened for the 4 years that Trump was in office.
You say that democracy was challenged by 1/6 and that is unprecedented? I would say that the attempt to assault the white house that forced the president into a bunker and resulted in a secret service building being destroyed, fences being torn down, and over 50 secret service agents being hurt trying to protect the white house during the DC riots last year take the cake. How about when protestors beat on the doors of the Supreme Court building in 2018 during the Kavanaugh appointment? You do know that the leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, actually stood on the steps of the Supreme Court and said that there would be hell to pay if Kavanaugh was nominated...right?
You say that its new ground to challenge the election? I can give you interview after interview by the candidate that was running against Trump, the current speaker of the house (who is #3 in charge of the country), and the current speaker of the senate that all say that Trump is illegitimate. DO you not remember the hashtag #notmypresident that was championed by all of the social media companies and the millions upon millions of people who are on those platforms for years after Trump was elected.
I can talk about unprecedented if you want....Lets talk about the current vice president of the United States of America paying the bail for people who set a federal courthouse on fire in MN. Lets talk about how the Obama administration actually used the FBI and CIA to investigate a political opponent during an election. Lets talk about how it was confirmed that people who supported Hillary Clinton's campaign who worked for the FBI actually passed off made up political opposition research as true and went so far as to get a FISA warrant to listen in on a President's communications.
I can obviously agree with you that 2 wrongs do not make a right....but to take what happened on 1/6 and treat it like it happened in a vacuum without all of the leadup to it by the other political party is disingenuous at best...
Kill shot. Excellent post.
Packbacker, I'll bet if I dig into your life, I'll find that you lean to the "Me First, everyone else can **** off" mindset. It's kind of human nature...PackBacker07 said:
"I tell that story because that political world is made up of two groups: elite globalist vs America First"
You're too far in the Kool-Aid. The political world is made up of one group: "Me First, everyone else can **** off." These America First nincompoops are just playing down to you, sorry to say. They don't give a **** about you, or America - they just know they can make millions off you by spouting out nonsense. Whichever way the easiest wind blows is their moral compass. The wind of today is America First.
I'm sure you think some of these *******s really do believe in what they are saying on TV everyday, but I can assure you they do not.
That said, I am always going to support the closest person to Federalism based on our Constitution. De we have perfect examples of that running for office and/or already in office? Nope!
You can call me a Kool-Aid drinker, all you want. Unfortunately, for you, you don't know me. Hell, you may not want to know me...
As far as people not giving a **** about America, well, in my estimation, that is the Democratic Party! They personify the very fact of caring for themselves. They do it by telling people, they care for them. What a joke?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
I apologize for not being a little clearer. My discussion of blind loyalty above, was more in reference to the politicians. The democrats expect blind loyalty from their entire party, as do Republicans, in every topic. But, it's worse right now for the democrats, as shown with Manchin. He is under a ridiculous attack from his own party for passing on the BBB. They don't care, despite the fact that the package could potentially be devastating for his state.
On the Republican side, their battle seems to reside more with the establishment group versus the new Maga movement. Meanwhile, still trying to hold off the progressive movement as a group. Yes, there is blind loyalty among voters, always will be.
On the Republican side, their battle seems to reside more with the establishment group versus the new Maga movement. Meanwhile, still trying to hold off the progressive movement as a group. Yes, there is blind loyalty among voters, always will be.
Oh, this country was not framed to be a majority rule. Each person has the same right as the next. So, with that, the federal government should and is prohibited from passing laws to favor one group over the next.
Yea, yea, I know... we have decades of slavery, decades of this, that or the other... people have failings. In fact they can't help themselves. That's why in the case of our federal government, less is more! As little of a federal government, the more freedom people have.
Freedom is the only way for people to have a potential to get ahead. Those that don't, well that's on them. Now, the people that don't, it would be nice if people/society took the time to help them. Wouldn't it be nice to see our society helping the unfortunate? We would have more sincere gratitude if we did. Now, the gratitude goes to the government that pits one against another.
Yea, yea, I know... we have decades of slavery, decades of this, that or the other... people have failings. In fact they can't help themselves. That's why in the case of our federal government, less is more! As little of a federal government, the more freedom people have.
Freedom is the only way for people to have a potential to get ahead. Those that don't, well that's on them. Now, the people that don't, it would be nice if people/society took the time to help them. Wouldn't it be nice to see our society helping the unfortunate? We would have more sincere gratitude if we did. Now, the gratitude goes to the government that pits one against another.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Yup. It is funny that out of one side of their mouth these people spout off how many horrible things the federal government has done (correctly, mostly, if you ask me), then immediately seek to consolidate power within that same structure.caryking said:
Oh, this country was not framed to be a majority rule. Each person has the same right as the next. So, with that, the federal government should and is prohibited from passing laws to favor one group over the next.
Yea, yea, I know... we have decades of slavery, decades of this, that or the other... people have failings. In fact they can't help themselves. That's why in the case of our federal government, less is more! As little of a federal government, the more freedom people have.
Freedom is the only way for people to have a potential to get ahead. Those that don't, well that's on them. Now, the people that don't, it would be nice if people/society took the time to help them. Wouldn't it be nice to see our society helping the unfortunate? We would have more sincere gratitude if we did. Now, the gratitude goes to the government that pits one against another.
They will never STFU about Jan 6th, then seek to pass a "voting rights bill" which works to nationalize elections. You know what would *really* allow a sitting president and their administration to "Stop the steal"? Federalizing elections....
Never set a precedent that you don't want the opposition to turn around and use on you.
You would be amazed by how often this happens through the course of history. Most people have an opposition to power if they are outside of the power system but then the second they are inside of that same system they attempt to consolidate the same power that they took issue with when it wasn't theirsbgr3 said:Yup. It is funny that out of one side of their mouth these people spout off how many horrible things the federal government has done (correctly, mostly, if you ask me), then immediately seek to consolidate power within that same structure.caryking said:
Oh, this country was not framed to be a majority rule. Each person has the same right as the next. So, with that, the federal government should and is prohibited from passing laws to favor one group over the next.
Yea, yea, I know... we have decades of slavery, decades of this, that or the other... people have failings. In fact they can't help themselves. That's why in the case of our federal government, less is more! As little of a federal government, the more freedom people have.
Freedom is the only way for people to have a potential to get ahead. Those that don't, well that's on them. Now, the people that don't, it would be nice if people/society took the time to help them. Wouldn't it be nice to see our society helping the unfortunate? We would have more sincere gratitude if we did. Now, the gratitude goes to the government that pits one against another.
They will never STFU about Jan 6th, then seek to pass a "voting rights bill" which works to nationalize elections. You know what would *really* allow a sitting president and their administration to "Stop the steal"? Federalizing elections....
Never set a precedent that you don't want the opposition to turn around and use on you.
Steve Videtich said:
I apologize for not being a little clearer. My discussion of blind loyalty above, was more in reference to the politicians. The democrats expect blind loyalty from their entire party, as do Republicans, in every topic. But, it's worse right now for the democrats, as shown with Manchin. He is under a ridiculous attack from his own party for passing on the BBB. They don't care, despite the fact that the package could potentially be devastating for his state.
On the Republican side, their battle seems to reside more with the establishment group versus the new Maga movement. Meanwhile, still trying to hold off the progressive movement as a group. Yes, there is blind loyalty among voters, always will be.
Dems thought they had Manchin's vote.
Then the White House heard from Manchin's staff 30 minutes before the Fox interview that he was going to go on Fox and explain why he wasn't going to support the bill.
Biden's staff desperately tried to reach out to figure out *** was happening and Manchin refused their calls.
That's a big part of why the Dems were so pissed about this.
It's Manchin's prerogative to not tender his support for the bill. It's bloated and expensive. But BBB polls at +43% favorable in WV. It's basically as popular amongst his people as any bill could possibly be in this political climate.
This is Manchin playing politics, not being some contrarian steward for his constituency.
*All that said about the way Manchin's BBB vote evolved, Manchin is serving an incredibly useful purpose in the Senate right now.
He's probably single-handedly saved us trillions by pushing back strongly on the scope and price tag of the Biden administration's liberal agenda.
I think BBB actually ends up passing with his support over the next few weeks, just in a more streamlined and less expensive form and in a way that's more tailored to increase the net benefit for his constituents. I strongly prefer that outcome, if it comes to pass, than BBB passing in its current form.
He's probably single-handedly saved us trillions by pushing back strongly on the scope and price tag of the Biden administration's liberal agenda.
I think BBB actually ends up passing with his support over the next few weeks, just in a more streamlined and less expensive form and in a way that's more tailored to increase the net benefit for his constituents. I strongly prefer that outcome, if it comes to pass, than BBB passing in its current form.
flylike44 said:cowboypack02 said:You realize that the democrats did the exact same thing after Trump won in 2016, correct?Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
You had Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and others actually give interviews that Trump was not the legitimate president. I remember celebrities giving speeches saying that "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house". I remember the brigades of ***** hats running all over DC along with cars being set on fire and store fronts being destroyed.
You say its new ground but its not....there are loads and loads of evidence that everything you are complaining about happened for the 4 years that Trump was in office.
You say that democracy was challenged by 1/6 and that is unprecedented? I would say that the attempt to assault the white house that forced the president into a bunker and resulted in a secret service building being destroyed, fences being torn down, and over 50 secret service agents being hurt trying to protect the white house during the DC riots last year take the cake. How about when protestors beat on the doors of the Supreme Court building in 2018 during the Kavanaugh appointment? You do know that the leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, actually stood on the steps of the Supreme Court and said that there would be hell to pay if Kavanaugh was nominated...right?
You say that its new ground to challenge the election? I can give you interview after interview by the candidate that was running against Trump, the current speaker of the house (who is #3 in charge of the country), and the current speaker of the senate that all say that Trump is illegitimate. DO you not remember the hashtag #notmypresident that was championed by all of the social media companies and the millions upon millions of people who are on those platforms for years after Trump was elected.
I can talk about unprecedented if you want....Lets talk about the current vice president of the United States of America paying the bail for people who set a federal courthouse on fire in MN. Lets talk about how the Obama administration actually used the FBI and CIA to investigate a political opponent during an election. Lets talk about how it was confirmed that people who supported Hillary Clinton's campaign who worked for the FBI actually passed off made up political opposition research as true and went so far as to get a FISA warrant to listen in on a President's communications.
I can obviously agree with you that 2 wrongs do not make a right....but to take what happened on 1/6 and treat it like it happened in a vacuum without all of the leadup to it by the other political party is disingenuous at best...
Kill shot. Excellent post.
Big time. Excellent post indeed.
Oh no doubt, there is a lot of human nature getting in the way of intellectual consistency there for sure. The unwillingness or inability to see and consider second and/or third order effects of actions is the way of the world, but it is unfortunate.
Very well said!!cowboypack02 said:You realize that the democrats did the exact same thing after Trump won in 2016, correct?Civilized said:Steve Videtich said:
Ha, I'm not sure that you'll ever get a majority of people to agree on any number of issues at any point in time. I do agree there's a lot of push for blind loyalty to a certain political party coming fcoming from both sides. But, I feel like that's more coming from the democrats currently. The battle with the Republican party seems to be with some of the establishment folks versus the rest of the party.
I guess my use of the term "silent majority" has more to do with people like myself, who 5 to 6 years ago didn't think too much about anything political. But, now we've become aware of what a **** show DC has become, we've become more politically educated, and we're now seeing through much of the BS. That's where I feel the change is happening.
Blind loyalty is definitely not limited to one side.
The "Stop the Steal" movement (and Jan 6 support) is the definition of a blind loyalty requirement. There's no evidence of consequence - none - that the election was stolen or fraudulent, but it's become a litmus test for your loyalty to Trump/MAGA if you're on the right. Politicians on the right that don't adhere to it or even actively promote it are risking political homicide.
It's new ground for our country where there's this complete falsehood attack on electoral system that tens of millions buy into and that politicians actively promote. Those on the right that don't promote it are afraid to speak up about lest they get primaried or cast out. Those that actually do speak up are quickly labeled traitorous RINO's/elite globalists, etc.
If that's not blind loyalty, what is?
You had Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and others actually give interviews that Trump was not the legitimate president. I remember celebrities giving speeches saying that "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house". I remember the brigades of ***** hats running all over DC along with cars being set on fire and store fronts being destroyed.
You say its new ground but its not....there are loads and loads of evidence that everything you are complaining about happened for the 4 years that Trump was in office.
You say that democracy was challenged by 1/6 and that is unprecedented? I would say that the attempt to assault the white house that forced the president into a bunker and resulted in a secret service building being destroyed, fences being torn down, and over 50 secret service agents being hurt trying to protect the white house during the DC riots last year take the cake. How about when protestors beat on the doors of the Supreme Court building in 2018 during the Kavanaugh appointment? You do know that the leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, actually stood on the steps of the Supreme Court and said that there would be hell to pay if Kavanaugh was nominated...right?
You say that its new ground to challenge the election? I can give you interview after interview by the candidate that was running against Trump, the current speaker of the house (who is #3 in charge of the country), and the current speaker of the senate that all say that Trump is illegitimate. DO you not remember the hashtag #notmypresident that was championed by all of the social media companies and the millions upon millions of people who are on those platforms for years after Trump was elected.
I can talk about unprecedented if you want....Lets talk about the current vice president of the United States of America paying the bail for people who set a federal courthouse on fire in MN. Lets talk about how the Obama administration actually used the FBI and CIA to investigate a political opponent during an election. Lets talk about how it was confirmed that people who supported Hillary Clinton's campaign who worked for the FBI actually passed off made up political opposition research as true and went so far as to get a FISA warrant to listen in on a President's communications.
I can obviously agree with you that 2 wrongs do not make a right....but to take what happened on 1/6 and treat it like it happened in a vacuum without all of the leadup to it by the other political party is disingenuous at best...
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