caryking said:

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oh, and BTW, Chem... Go "F" yourself!!! you are a disgusting human being and I haven't even met you in person. Oh, would I enjoy meeting you in person...

---

ohhhh, that sounds like a threat.

So your perspective is, when someone disagrees with you, they are a "disgusting" human being. No wonder this country is in utter discord.

Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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Well done, There's simply no arguing with your factoids.

---

Words matter....and when you leaders say really dumb things, it can cause people to react badly. There are many people in this country who are unvaccinated not because they've done research to determine what is best for them, but because Trump (or other elected official) told them not to trust the government....OR they think they were told that....you know, completely ignoring that almost every doctor imaginable has also suggested we should be vaccinated.

Or because a pastor (clearly another type of leader) who thinks God is speaking to him directly, has suggested that if its their time, its their time, or that we are being tested due to sin, blah blah blah....and some folks are following that right to the hospital room.

We can disagree on the danger of those comments coming from our national leaders....clearly, I think its bad.

---

Words matter? Okay, go back to pre election and play back all the audio of Biden and Harris telling everyone not to trust the vaccine because a Trump was in charge. Even telling puerile of color to not trust it, referencing the Tuskegee Experiments.

You are arguing in bad faith when you have selective memory of who said what when. Election fraud... same thing the previous 4-5 years. Nazis... same rhetoric from most Dems the last 2-3 years. Political prisoners... what would you call them when the people that did worse in Democratic cities have been released to the streets?

Cmon Chem, you're just being wilfully ignorant with this debate!

---

They should be held accountable for those statements -- like Biden saying he would not force a mandate. Someone has to press him on that, absolutely.
And sure, I agree with you on the Dems did the same thing -- that is exactly what I said the GOP who do taht are every bit as bad as the left wingers who do it. Neither should get a pass.

Go back and read my posts -- where did I say anything about being the right being unique in this? You're being influenced by the echo chamber of 4-5 posters who go off the deep end on this. What I said is -- both parties are guilty of this fringe that is becoming more influential (look at the millions Cawthorn has raised).

Packchem91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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I really hope they do shut down. Best thing that can happen is no new bills passing. Definitely NO to the new 3.5 trillion bill. The next election can't get here soon enough. And it's not because I think anything good will happen. I really hope we get iron clad gridlock again soon.

---

Gridlock has been the best outcome I could hope for for pretty much all of my adult life. We should have had it now if Republicans didn't bomb the Senate races in GA

---

Yep, it's a sad but true statement -- we need the gridlock. It's part of the checks and balances. And, particularly in the house, both parties have moved so far to the extremes, that gridlock is a welcome outcome.

---

Chem, I would be curious to see your list of extremes on the Right.

---

Far right or just far crazy enough that its sad they are helping make decisions on our behalf?
Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, the racist from GA - Green, Boebert, Gaetz.
I think those folks are every bit as dangerous as AOC and her crazy cohorts. I take that back...probably not as dangerous, because the media is pretty much aligned agaisnt them, as opposed to treating them as saints as they do with the Squad.

---

You want to clue me in on why Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, or Matt Gaetz are crazy, because I haven't seen it

---

So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.

Sorry....thats dangerous.

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)

---

I want to put a little bit of thought into each of your points above so please stick with me here:

So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.
I have been told for the last 4 years that Trump stole the election in 2016 and had to deal with all the democrat politicians from Schumer and Pelosi down that Trump didn't win the election fair and square. With this being the case why should it bother me that Trump and republicans did the same thing for this past election. The democrats have been telling me that most elections that the republicans won have been stolen for years now. This doesn't move me here and BBW going along doesn't bother me at all because I had to hear about it from 2016 on. Democrats have filed multiple lawsuits to stop a republican from taking a congressional seat, why should this bother me?

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
I would agree with Cawthorn here. Were the people who attacked Republican politicians as they were leaving the white house last year arrested en-masse and hunted down by photos and videos of that night? Were the people who were burning down sheriff's offices and trying to burn down federal courthouses hunted down like this? Were the rioters that set DC on fire last year and in 2017 hunted down like this? Were the rioters who pulled down fences outside of the white house and hurt the secret service members that were protecting the area chased down like this? The answer to each of these questions is no. They weren't locked up for months on end without being able to see the evidence against them, they weren't hunted down from door to door, congress didn't set up offices for the capitol police in different states to hunt down these people, and congress didn't set up hearings for this. So yes...these people who went to the capital are being treated differently then the different groups...the only difference is the politician they support and by definition that would make them political prisoners.

About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.
Democrats have been very up front that they want to go from door to door and grab guns (see Diane Feinstein). Why shouldn't I believe that is they to go door to door for vaccines then why wouldn't they do the same for other things?

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"
I don't have to imagine it. The current Vice President Kamala Harris quite literally helped set up a bail fund for the people who tried to burn down a sheriff's office and a federal courthouse. Democrat politicians told people that if they saw a republican or anyone that worked for the Trump administration out in public that people should get in their face and tell them that they weren't wanted

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....
Every time Trump or anyone that did anything over the last 4 years he, republican politicians, and anybody that agreed with that action was called a Nazi by democrat politicians. This doesn't move the needle for me at all.

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.
You do realize that most of the big donors in the American political landscape donate to democrats, right? Of the top 12 donors politically democrats rake in a little over 2.5 Billion while the republicans rake in 967 Billion. These numbers are of private people, not corporations or unions, who we all know donate more to democrats.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.
Difference is that most republicans don't follow in lock step with the few oddballs of the party while democrats follow them like lemmings

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.
Every position that you disagree with isn't dangerous or controversial

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)
The only reason that Cooper hasn't is because he knows that he'll get overturned by the NC GA and Senate. To dive deeper on this I have a problem with people mandating things in general. People get really defensive about what DeSantis is doing because there is no common sense to their arguments. He said that school boards weren't allowed to have mask mandates. He didn't say that people couldn't wear mask or schools couldn't ask kids to wear a mask, He simply said that a school board couldn't force someone to do something that they didn't want to do. The entire school could decide that they were going to wear mask and what DeSantis pushed wouldn't matter to them at all because they made a personal choice.

Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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oh, and BTW, Chem... Go "F" yourself!!! you are a disgusting human being and I haven't even met you in person. Oh, would I enjoy meeting you in person...

---

ohhhh, that sounds like a threat.

So your perspective is, when someone disagrees with you, they are a "disgusting" human being. No wonder this country is in utter discord.

---

It seems pretty clear to me that he means just you. Probably has nothing to do with your trolling though right? And you talked about self-awareness. LOL.

cowboypack02 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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I really hope they do shut down. Best thing that can happen is no new bills passing. Definitely NO to the new 3.5 trillion bill. The next election can't get here soon enough. And it's not because I think anything good will happen. I really hope we get iron clad gridlock again soon.

---

Gridlock has been the best outcome I could hope for for pretty much all of my adult life. We should have had it now if Republicans didn't bomb the Senate races in GA

---

Yep, it's a sad but true statement -- we need the gridlock. It's part of the checks and balances. And, particularly in the house, both parties have moved so far to the extremes, that gridlock is a welcome outcome.

---

Chem, I would be curious to see your list of extremes on the Right.

---

Far right or just far crazy enough that its sad they are helping make decisions on our behalf?
Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, the racist from GA - Green, Boebert, Gaetz.
I think those folks are every bit as dangerous as AOC and her crazy cohorts. I take that back...probably not as dangerous, because the media is pretty much aligned agaisnt them, as opposed to treating them as saints as they do with the Squad.

---

You want to clue me in on why Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, or Matt Gaetz are crazy, because I haven't seen it

---

So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.

Sorry....thats dangerous.

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)

---

I want to put a little bit of thought into each of your points above so please stick with me here:

So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.
I have been told for the last 4 years that Trump stole the election in 2016 and had to deal with all the democrat politicians from Schumer and Pelosi down that Trump didn't win the election fair and square. With this being the case why should it bother me that Trump and republicans did the same thing for this past election. The democrats have been telling me that most elections that the republicans won have been stolen for years now. This doesn't move me here and BBW going along doesn't bother me at all because I had to hear about it from 2016 on. Democrats have filed multiple lawsuits to stop a republican from taking a congressional seat, why should this bother me?

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
I would agree with Cawthorn here. Were the people who attacked Republican politicians as they were leaving the white house last year arrested en-masse and hunted down by photos and videos of that night? Were the people who were burning down sheriff's offices and trying to burn down federal courthouses hunted down like this? Were the rioters that set DC on fire last year and in 2017 hunted down like this? Were the rioters who pulled down fences outside of the white house and hurt the secret service members that were protecting the area chased down like this? The answer to each of these questions is no. They weren't locked up for months on end without being able to see the evidence against them, they weren't hunted down from door to door, congress didn't set up offices for the capitol police in different states to hunt down these people, and congress didn't set up hearings for this. So yes...these people who went to the capital are being treated differently then the different groups...the only difference is the politician they support and by definition that would make them political prisoners.

About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.
Democrats have been very up front that they want to go from door to door and grab guns (see Diane Feinstein). Why shouldn't I believe that is they to go door to door for vaccines then why wouldn't they do the same for other things?

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"
I don't have to imagine it. The current Vice President Kamala Harris quite literally helped set up a bail fund for the people who tried to burn down a sheriff's office and a federal courthouse. Democrat politicians told people that if they saw a republican or anyone that worked for the Trump administration out in public that people should get in their face and tell them that they weren't wanted

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....
Every time Trump or anyone that did anything over the last 4 years he, republican politicians, and anybody that agreed with that action was called a Nazi by democrat politicians. This doesn't move the needle for me at all.

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.
You do realize that most of the big donors in the American political landscape donate to democrats, right? Of the top 12 donors politically democrats rake in a little over 2.5 Billion while the republicans rake in 967 Billion. These numbers are of private people, not corporations or unions, who we all know donate more to democrats.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.
Difference is that most republicans don't follow in lock step with the few oddballs of the party while democrats follow them like lemmings

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.
Every position that you disagree with isn't dangerous or controversial

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)
The only reason that Cooper hasn't is because he knows that he'll get overturned by the NC GA and Senate. To dive deeper on this I have a problem with people mandating things in general. People get really defensive about what DeSantis is doing because there is no common sense to their arguments. He said that school boards weren't allowed to have mask mandates. He didn't say that people couldn't wear mask or schools couldn't ask kids to wear a mask, He simply said that a school board couldn't force someone to do something that they didn't want to do. The entire school could decide that they were going to wear mask and what DeSantis pushed wouldn't matter to them at all because they made a personal choice.

---

So like i said to Steve V....you're actually proving my point. You can't stand the Dems who did these things, right? I agree, its bad. We need both sides to quit doing these things that are (1) divisive and (2) not for the best of the whole country, in any way.

Remember the comment that started this --- gridlock is good if it helps keep the fringes from causing problems.

caryking said:

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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oh, and BTW, Chem... Go "F" yourself!!! you are a disgusting human being and I haven't even met you in person. Oh, would I enjoy meeting you in person...

---

ohhhh, that sounds like a threat.

So your perspective is, when someone disagrees with you, they are a "disgusting" human being. No wonder this country is in utter discord.

---

It seems pretty clear to me that he means just you. Probably has nothing to do with your trolling though right? And you talked about self-awareness. LOL.

---

Damn packgrad... I had put him on ignore and you had to respond so I could see what he said. Nonetheless, thanks for the response. It's accurate, as usual.

To chem, doesn't surprise me that you will take anything as a threat! What's next? A lawsuit?

Move along chem, you're too puny for me to debate with...

---

Well if ever your predictions of Arizona (and then PA and WI or GA, presumably, to overturn the overall election) being overturned come true, please take me off ignore so you can read my apologies for doubting you and your world-class sources.

Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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Well done, There's simply no arguing with your factoids.

---

Words matter....and when you leaders say really dumb things, it can cause people to react badly. There are many people in this country who are unvaccinated not because they've done research to determine what is best for them, but because Trump (or other elected official) told them not to trust the government....OR they think they were told that....you know, completely ignoring that almost every doctor imaginable has also suggested we should be vaccinated.

Or because a pastor (clearly another type of leader) who thinks God is speaking to him directly, has suggested that if its their time, its their time, or that we are being tested due to sin, blah blah blah....and some folks are following that right to the hospital room.

We can disagree on the danger of those comments coming from our national leaders....clearly, I think its bad.

---

Words matter? Okay, go back to pre election and play back all the audio of Biden and Harris telling everyone not to trust the vaccine because a Trump was in charge. Even telling puerile of color to not trust it, referencing the Tuskegee Experiments.

You are arguing in bad faith when you have selective memory of who said what when. Election fraud... same thing the previous 4-5 years. Nazis... same rhetoric from most Dems the last 2-3 years. Political prisoners... what would you call them when the people that did worse in Democratic cities have been released to the streets?

Cmon Chem, you're just being wilfully ignorant with this debate!

---

They should be held accountable for those statements -- like Biden saying he would not force a mandate. Someone has to press him on that, absolutely.
And sure, I agree with you on the Dems did the same thing -- that is exactly what I said the GOP who do taht are every bit as bad as the left wingers who do it. Neither should get a pass.

Go back and read my posts -- where did I say anything about being the right being unique in this? You're being influenced by the echo chamber of 4-5 posters who go off the deep end on this. What I said is -- both parties are guilty of this fringe that is becoming more influential (look at the millions Cawthorn has raised).

---

Okay, if you want to discuss this further, you can stop with the echo chamber bulls***! I have a brain and a s*** ton of common sense to make my own judgements!

I'm on record in this thread as having said that, if it were up to me, I'd clean house in DC on both sides and start all over. The problem with the rhetoric debate is that the Dems have been playing the ugly game for a long time. It's only been amplified in the last several years because of social media. The Republicans, for the most part, have rested on their laurels and been lazy.

Now you have a new group of Conservatives who are "getting in the mud" and fighting back against the Progressives. You compared this group to AOC and the Squad. That's where my opinion is different from yours.

This group claims that the US is responsible for the supposed "climate change" because of our use of fossil fuels. Meanwhile we are only 1 of many countries, producing and utilizing oil. But, it's our fault? The police should be defunded, but they require high level security... well because they're just more important than everyone else. We should bring over at least 200,000 Afghans because of what we did the last 20 years there. Meanwhile, that war has lasted over 200 years and will continue past our departure. These are just the greatest hits.

I don't know about you, but I believe we need to take care of our country first and rebuild it to being the greatest country in the world. Because we've lost that with the progressive movement. When we take care of our issues here, then we can help other parts of the world. We are not perfect, but we're still a better place than most!

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Well done, There's simply no arguing with your factoids.

---

Words matter....and when you leaders say really dumb things, it can cause people to react badly. There are many people in this country who are unvaccinated not because they've done research to determine what is best for them, but because Trump (or other elected official) told them not to trust the government....OR they think they were told that....you know, completely ignoring that almost every doctor imaginable has also suggested we should be vaccinated.

Or because a pastor (clearly another type of leader) who thinks God is speaking to him directly, has suggested that if its their time, its their time, or that we are being tested due to sin, blah blah blah....and some folks are following that right to the hospital room.

We can disagree on the danger of those comments coming from our national leaders....clearly, I think its bad.

---

Words matter? Okay, go back to pre election and play back all the audio of Biden and Harris telling everyone not to trust the vaccine because a Trump was in charge. Even telling puerile of color to not trust it, referencing the Tuskegee Experiments.

You are arguing in bad faith when you have selective memory of who said what when. Election fraud... same thing the previous 4-5 years. Nazis... same rhetoric from most Dems the last 2-3 years. Political prisoners... what would you call them when the people that did worse in Democratic cities have been released to the streets?

Cmon Chem, you're just being wilfully ignorant with this debate!

---

They should be held accountable for those statements -- like Biden saying he would not force a mandate. Someone has to press him on that, absolutely.
And sure, I agree with you on the Dems did the same thing -- that is exactly what I said the GOP who do taht are every bit as bad as the left wingers who do it. Neither should get a pass.

Go back and read my posts -- where did I say anything about being the right being unique in this? You're being influenced by the echo chamber of 4-5 posters who go off the deep end on this. What I said is -- both parties are guilty of this fringe that is becoming more influential (look at the millions Cawthorn has raised).

---

Okay, if you want to discuss this further, you can stop with the echo chamber bulls***! I have a brain and a s*** ton of common sense to make my own judgements!

I'm on record in this thread as having said that, if it were up to me, I'd clean house in DC on both sides and start all over. The problem with the rhetoric debate is that the Dems have been playing the ugly game for a long time. It's only been amplified in the last several years because of social media. The Republicans, for the most part, have rested on their laurels and been lazy.

Now you have a new group of Conservatives who are "getting in the mud" and fighting back against the Progressives. You compared this group to AOC and the Squad. That's where my opinion is different from yours.

This group claims that the US is responsible for the supposed "climate change" because of our use of fossil fuels. Meanwhile we are only 1 of many countries, producing and utilizing oil. But, it's our fault? The police should be defunded, but they require high level security... well because they're just more important than everyone else. We should bring over at least 200,000 Afghans because of what we did the last 20 years there. Meanwhile, that war has lasted over 200 years and will continue past our departure. These are just the greatest hits.

I don't know about you, but I believe we need to take care of our country first and rebuild it to being the greatest country in the world. Because we've lost that with the progressive movement. When we take care of our issues here, then we can help other parts of the world. We are not perfect, but we're still a better place than most!

---

Sorry, not referring to you as echo chamber, but a group of other posters here who steered away from teh original point, which was that the edges of both parties will make things worse.

And I'd take it up a step from you --- we are not better than most, on the average, this is the best country in the world to live. And much of that is due to the checks and balances of our system, not only between the three branches, but even within the legislative branch. You don't like a law...ok, get them voted out and find someone who agrees with you.

I just think the rhetoric -- which, fueled by SM is at an all-time fever pitch -- is counterproductive, divisive, and as an example, has helped fuel a country that can't even universally agree that a vaccination against a virus that has killed 650k Americans is a good thing.

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Well done, There's simply no arguing with your factoids.

---

Words matter....and when you leaders say really dumb things, it can cause people to react badly. There are many people in this country who are unvaccinated not because they've done research to determine what is best for them, but because Trump (or other elected official) told them not to trust the government....OR they think they were told that....you know, completely ignoring that almost every doctor imaginable has also suggested we should be vaccinated.

Or because a pastor (clearly another type of leader) who thinks God is speaking to him directly, has suggested that if its their time, its their time, or that we are being tested due to sin, blah blah blah....and some folks are following that right to the hospital room.

We can disagree on the danger of those comments coming from our national leaders....clearly, I think its bad.

---

Words matter? Okay, go back to pre election and play back all the audio of Biden and Harris telling everyone not to trust the vaccine because a Trump was in charge. Even telling puerile of color to not trust it, referencing the Tuskegee Experiments.

You are arguing in bad faith when you have selective memory of who said what when. Election fraud... same thing the previous 4-5 years. Nazis... same rhetoric from most Dems the last 2-3 years. Political prisoners... what would you call them when the people that did worse in Democratic cities have been released to the streets?

Cmon Chem, you're just being wilfully ignorant with this debate!

---

They should be held accountable for those statements -- like Biden saying he would not force a mandate. Someone has to press him on that, absolutely.
And sure, I agree with you on the Dems did the same thing -- that is exactly what I said the GOP who do taht are every bit as bad as the left wingers who do it. Neither should get a pass.

Go back and read my posts -- where did I say anything about being the right being unique in this? You're being influenced by the echo chamber of 4-5 posters who go off the deep end on this. What I said is -- both parties are guilty of this fringe that is becoming more influential (look at the millions Cawthorn has raised).

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Okay, if you want to discuss this further, you can stop with the echo chamber bulls***! I have a brain and a s*** ton of common sense to make my own judgements!

I'm on record in this thread as having said that, if it were up to me, I'd clean house in DC on both sides and start all over. The problem with the rhetoric debate is that the Dems have been playing the ugly game for a long time. It's only been amplified in the last several years because of social media. The Republicans, for the most part, have rested on their laurels and been lazy.

Now you have a new group of Conservatives who are "getting in the mud" and fighting back against the Progressives. You compared this group to AOC and the Squad. That's where my opinion is different from yours.

This group claims that the US is responsible for the supposed "climate change" because of our use of fossil fuels. Meanwhile we are only 1 of many countries, producing and utilizing oil. But, it's our fault? The police should be defunded, but they require high level security... well because they're just more important than everyone else. We should bring over at least 200,000 Afghans because of what we did the last 20 years there. Meanwhile, that war has lasted over 200 years and will continue past our departure. These are just the greatest hits.

I don't know about you, but I believe we need to take care of our country first and rebuild it to being the greatest country in the world. Because we've lost that with the progressive movement. When we take care of our issues here, then we can help other parts of the world. We are not perfect, but we're still a better place than most!

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*Slow clap

The US is responsible for 15% of the worlds CO2 emissions yet we think we can save the world by reducing it to 0 in 30-40 years? The only thing we will reduce to 0 will be our economy and the rest of the world will more than make up for our 15% in the process.

I do believe it's the best country. Remind me which Republicans have said we are a horrible racist country? Now think of how many Dems have said that?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's about to get a lot worse before it gets better! So, we have a choice to make. Sack up and fight for our country by getting rid of the anti America sentiment. Or, sit back and accept what you get and enjoy your participation trophy. I'll take my chances with Jim Jordan and that group.

As for the vaccines, I'm not arguing about it. My personal feeling is choice first. I made the decision to get it, MY choice.

The thing must don't think about when they want to show the government to make mandates, is where does it stop? A progressive group, one allowed a certain amount of power and control is not going to give that power and control back.

It's just this one time... no it's not! We're only going to tax the rich... well when they don't get the money they expect, who do they tax next? It goes on and on.

cowboypack02 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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I really hope they do shut down. Best thing that can happen is no new bills passing. Definitely NO to the new 3.5 trillion bill. The next election can't get here soon enough. And it's not because I think anything good will happen. I really hope we get iron clad gridlock again soon.

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Gridlock has been the best outcome I could hope for for pretty much all of my adult life. We should have had it now if Republicans didn't bomb the Senate races in GA

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Yep, it's a sad but true statement -- we need the gridlock. It's part of the checks and balances. And, particularly in the house, both parties have moved so far to the extremes, that gridlock is a welcome outcome.

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Chem, I would be curious to see your list of extremes on the Right.

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Far right or just far crazy enough that its sad they are helping make decisions on our behalf?
Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, the racist from GA - Green, Boebert, Gaetz.
I think those folks are every bit as dangerous as AOC and her crazy cohorts. I take that back...probably not as dangerous, because the media is pretty much aligned agaisnt them, as opposed to treating them as saints as they do with the Squad.

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You want to clue me in on why Jim Jordan, Madison Cawthorn, or Matt Gaetz are crazy, because I haven't seen it

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So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.

Sorry....thats dangerous.

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)

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I want to put a little bit of thought into each of your points above so please stick with me here:

So first....while I support voting IDs, any person in a leadership position who is still publicly advocating that the elections were stolen is dangerous. Leave that to the loonies, like the guy on this board who keeps promising great news in AZ.
I have been told for the last 4 years that Trump stole the election in 2016 and had to deal with all the democrat politicians from Schumer and Pelosi down that Trump didn't win the election fair and square. With this being the case why should it bother me that Trump and republicans did the same thing for this past election. The democrats have been telling me that most elections that the republicans won have been stolen for years now. This doesn't move me here and BBW going along doesn't bother me at all because I had to hear about it from 2016 on. Democrats have filed multiple lawsuits to stop a republican from taking a congressional seat, why should this bother me?

Cawthorn's predicts bloodshed will follow the "stolen elections". I mean....come on, how can anyone think that is reasonable? He calls the people who have been arrested for breaking into the Capitol building "political prisoners".
I would agree with Cawthorn here. Were the people who attacked Republican politicians as they were leaving the white house last year arrested en-masse and hunted down by photos and videos of that night? Were the people who were burning down sheriff's offices and trying to burn down federal courthouses hunted down like this? Were the rioters that set DC on fire last year and in 2017 hunted down like this? Were the rioters who pulled down fences outside of the white house and hurt the secret service members that were protecting the area chased down like this? The answer to each of these questions is no. They weren't locked up for months on end without being able to see the evidence against them, they weren't hunted down from door to door, congress didn't set up offices for the capitol police in different states to hunt down these people, and congress didn't set up hearings for this. So yes...these people who went to the capital are being treated differently then the different groups...the only difference is the politician they support and by definition that would make them political prisoners.

About the "door-to-door" idea of vaccinating, Cawthorn suggested it could lead to seizing guns and bibles, lol.
Democrats have been very up front that they want to go from door to door and grab guns (see Diane Feinstein). Why shouldn't I believe that is they to go door to door for vaccines then why wouldn't they do the same for other things?

Gaetz teamed up with Greene to try to visit some of the imprisoned rioters from Jan 6. Imagine that. What would you say if AOC visited the criminal who broke into your house and sent your wife and daughter into hiding, just because that person had similar views to her? "well sure, thats no problem, she's just doing her job?"
I don't have to imagine it. The current Vice President Kamala Harris quite literally helped set up a bail fund for the people who tried to burn down a sheriff's office and a federal courthouse. Democrat politicians told people that if they saw a republican or anyone that worked for the Trump administration out in public that people should get in their face and tell them that they weren't wanted

Greene compared coronavirus preventative measures to Nazi actions....
Every time Trump or anyone that did anything over the last 4 years he, republican politicians, and anybody that agreed with that action was called a Nazi by democrat politicians. This doesn't move the needle for me at all.

And crazy thing is --- these guys are making tons of $$$ donations based on these wholly divisive comments.
You do realize that most of the big donors in the American political landscape donate to democrats, right? Of the top 12 donors politically democrats rake in a little over 2.5 Billion while the republicans rake in 967 Billion. These numbers are of private people, not corporations or unions, who we all know donate more to democrats.

So while they may not have driven much actual legislation yet, they are certainly going to be having a bigger voice in it. You can be ok with people with those thoughts having that influence....I think its every bit as sad and scary as the AOC's of the world.
Difference is that most republicans don't follow in lock step with the few oddballs of the party while democrats follow them like lemmings

Look....these guys want to fight about the legality or government over-reach of Biden's plan --- good on them. But that shouldn't mean they get a pass on these more controversial, dangerous views.
Every position that you disagree with isn't dangerous or controversial

One other -- imagine if Cooper threated school districts with fines / $$ withheld if they did not pass a mask mandate. I'm guessing many of you'd be ready to run him out....instead he's left it to the locals, as he should. But is there a similar outcry when DeSantis does the same? Is that not government overreach (almost entirely to make a political point at the national level)
The only reason that Cooper hasn't is because he knows that he'll get overturned by the NC GA and Senate. To dive deeper on this I have a problem with people mandating things in general. People get really defensive about what DeSantis is doing because there is no common sense to their arguments. He said that school boards weren't allowed to have mask mandates. He didn't say that people couldn't wear mask or schools couldn't ask kids to wear a mask, He simply said that a school board couldn't force someone to do something that they didn't want to do. The entire school could decide that they were going to wear mask and what DeSantis pushed wouldn't matter to them at all because they made a personal choice.

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Cowboy = Einstein

PackChem = VILLAGE IDIOT!

Wow just reading through this last page. Agree completely with Steve V.

In fact I think it's fair to say you've split the uprights with those post Steve!

Steve Videtich said:

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I do believe it's the best country. Remind me which Republicans have said we are a horrible racist country? Now think of how many Dems have said that?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's about to get a lot worse before it gets better! So, we have a choice to make. Sack up and fight for our country by getting rid of the anti America sentiment. Or, sit back and accept what you get and enjoy your participation trophy. I'll take my chances with Jim Jordan and that group.

As for the vaccines, I'm not arguing about it. My personal feeling is choice first. I made the decision to get it, MY choice.

The thing must don't think about when they want to show the government to make mandates, is where does it stop? A progressive group, one allowed a certain amount of power and control is not going to give that power and control back.

It's just this one time... no it's not! We're only going to tax the rich... well when they don't get the money they expect, who do they tax next? It goes on and on.

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Here's the thing Steve -- I agree with all your points. Politically, we're in lock step on this. We just disagree on how our elected officials have to posture to get to those points. I think the current posturing is getting worse and worse, and is there a person here who disagrees that we are as divided as we've been in most of our lifetimes (I think anyone who lived thru the 60s would say that took the cake)?

I think our media, social media, and our elected leaders have all contributed significantly to that.
And I'm sure there will be those who disagree -- but all 3 of those went up exponentially in discord 4 years ago. And I think, will continue to worsen because many of the newer elected officials are taking thsi much more caustic approach.

Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I do believe it's the best country. Remind me which Republicans have said we are a horrible racist country? Now think of how many Dems have said that?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's about to get a lot worse before it gets better! So, we have a choice to make. Sack up and fight for our country by getting rid of the anti America sentiment. Or, sit back and accept what you get and enjoy your participation trophy. I'll take my chances with Jim Jordan and that group.

As for the vaccines, I'm not arguing about it. My personal feeling is choice first. I made the decision to get it, MY choice.

The thing must don't think about when they want to show the government to make mandates, is where does it stop? A progressive group, one allowed a certain amount of power and control is not going to give that power and control back.

It's just this one time... no it's not! We're only going to tax the rich... well when they don't get the money they expect, who do they tax next? It goes on and on.

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Here's the thing Steve -- I agree with all your points. Politically, we're in lock step on this. We just disagree on how our elected officials have to posture to get to those points. I think the current posturing is getting worse and worse, and is there a person here who disagrees that we are as divided as we've been in most of our lifetimes (I think anyone who lived thru the 60s would say that took the cake)?

I think our media, social media, and our elected leaders have all contributed significantly to that.
And I'm sure there will be those who disagree -- but all 3 of those went up exponentially in discord 4 years ago. And I think, will continue to worsen because many of the newer elected officials are taking thsi much more caustic approach.

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We are divided as a country. I just disagree with how and where that began. All have contributed for sure. But history has proven time and again that in times like these, the Dems are always on the wrong side of the equation.

The party of unity and transparency is a bigger lie than anything Trump was ever accused of saying, and the media is complicit in the entire drama playing out! Sorry he wasn't "presidential" enough for the faint of heart. But, if I was in his shoes and treated the way he was, I would've left every news conference with double birds for the media!

I respectfully will remain silent this weekend. It's not worth talking to the lefties. Hopefully they polish their halos, pat themselves on the back, tell themselves how much of a difference they make when the whole time they are nothing but a bunch of self absorbed richards. And they know it.

Go Pack.

Never Forget. 9/11

Didn't see this coming from college students. Growing tired of the mandates and failures?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/college-students-chant-fk-joe-biden-at-football-games

Funny that there hasn't been any moderation on the WC including deleted post since August 23rd. And one of those was a post of mine that Steve deleted.