i think the other office holding GOP members need to distance themselves from this fraud nonsense in a hurry and tell Trump to begin the transition. You can already see it starting with Chris Christie and a few others, and its a national embarrassment from which the GOP really needs to move on.

Here's what is really terrible about all of this:

I have friends and relatives....from super-smart to not-so-smart...blue collar folks, and engineer types with patents and software geniuses.....who are all-in on this conspiracy "the election was stolen" crap.

It's very disconcerting, how people who really are very intelligent can be duped into believing such BS without even considering that it might be all BS.

I have people who text me and post things where they think they're privy to things the rest of us don't know. As if I couldn't join Parler and see the same crap, lol.

Someone texted me the other day and said he'd "seen the real #'s and Trump actually won California". And believes it.

These folks actually believe they are part of some inside information network. Now, I can see how some of the less-gifted among us fall for this crap. We all have those types of friends, and probably some of them have been posting these bogus memes on FB for years now. You roll your eyes and scroll on past.

But for your smarter friends, folks that you KNOW should be above this, to fall "all in" on it?

We're in a really bad place as a country. All this Russian/Chinese/whoever disinformation is evidently working. It has taken its toll.

You can see it on the Brickyard....I don't post but read there occasionally....I saw a couple on the election thread claiming "this is a rapidly-developing situation behind the scenes, information is coming fast".

These folks really believe they're part of some investigative effort. They're even still posting the lie about the US Army raiding some server farm in Europe, which the Army has flatly denied. It didn't happen in any form or fashion.

A simply search finds that there are no election servers in Europe, all the servers related to the election were located in the USA and always have been. Further, the original tweet about an alleged raid didn't mention Dominion....someone added that in later.

But here is what these folks are running with:

"So our military does a little raid in Germany to retrieve the server where our voting info was routed," the posts read. "After analysis of the server, they discover that this is what the voting outcome actually looks like."

Such utter, complete BS. If there was such a raid, you think some idiot on a social media site would know about it, and that quickly? It's laughable, if it wasn't so sad that folks buy this crap.

Trump is making it worse. I really wish he'd come out and say "Look, I lost fair and square. Time to transition" and show some damn class. But I suspect he's probably one of the ones eating that BS up, like the other folks on Parler and elsewhere. Even when he knows the truth of the matter is different.

I don't know how we come back from this. Going to be a hard process. The misinformation has sown some very productive seeds of mistrust here.

Pack87 said:

---

The last sentence says it all. I am not necessarily sad to see Trump go, but I am not happy to see a Biden administration. If there was a way to hand this over to someone with Trumps policies and Pence's demeanor we would be in better shape. Say what you want I don't see Biden making it 4 years and the progressives taking over under Harris is really scary.

---

Yep, that's worrisome. Not that he won't live 4 years....all it takes is him getting good and sick and deciding to resign, and then it's "Hello President Harris".

At least the Senate was held. If they Biden administration starts veering too far left, hopefully there will be a message sent in 2022 like there was in 1994, and the Pubs can put a stop to that.

And then maybe we could get back to a "mostly stalemated but still cooperative" gov't like we had when Newt led the Pubs and Clinton was President.

Hell, at this point I'd take that as an option in a heartbeat over what we've had since W was elected.

All the more reason for term limits, IMO. Get these butt-hurt senators and reps out of there so they can't perpetually go back and forth with the obstructionism to "get the other side back for what happened in the previous administration"

Pacfanweb said:

---

Here's what is really terrible about all of this:

I have friends and relatives....from super-smart to not-so-smart...blue collar folks, and engineer types with patents and software geniuses.....who are all-in on this conspiracy "the election was stolen" crap.

It's very disconcerting, how people who really are very intelligent can be duped into believing such BS without even considering that it might be all BS.

I have people who text me and post things where they think they're privy to things the rest of us don't know. As if I couldn't join Parler and see the same crap, lol.

Someone texted me the other day and said he'd "seen the real #'s and Trump actually won California". And believes it.

These folks actually believe they are part of some inside information network. Now, I can see how some of the less-gifted among us fall for this crap. We all have those types of friends, and probably some of them have been posting these bogus memes on FB for years now. You roll your eyes and scroll on past.

But for your smarter friends, folks that you KNOW should be above this, to fall "all in" on it?

We're in a really bad place as a country. All this Russian/Chinese/whoever disinformation is evidently working. It has taken its toll.

You can see it on the Brickyard....I don't post but read there occasionally....I saw a couple on the election thread claiming "this is a rapidly-developing situation behind the scenes, information is coming fast".

These folks really believe they're part of some investigative effort. They're even still posting the lie about the US Army raiding some server farm in Europe, which the Army has flatly denied. It didn't happen in any form or fashion.

A simply search finds that there are no election servers in Europe, all the servers related to the election were located in the USA and always have been. Further, the original tweet about an alleged raid didn't mention Dominion....someone added that in later.

But here is what these folks are running with:

"So our military does a little raid in Germany to retrieve the server where our voting info was routed," the posts read. "After analysis of the server, they discover that this is what the voting outcome actually looks like."

Such utter, complete BS. If there was such a raid, you think some idiot on a social media site would know about it, and that quickly? It's laughable, if it wasn't so sad that folks buy this crap.

Trump is making it worse. I really wish he'd come out and say "Look, I lost fair and square. Time to transition" and show some damn class. But I suspect he's probably one of the ones eating that BS up, like the other folks on Parler and elsewhere. Even when he knows the truth of the matter is different.

I don't know how we come back from this. Going to be a hard process. The misinformation has sown some very productive seeds of mistrust here.

---

How do you classify all the people that have said Trump's presidency is illegitimate? I am not supporting what Trump is doing but it seems very TDS that everyone is upset about what Trump is doing and not so much about what Obama, Hillary, etc... did. They may not have been stating fraud but how else could a presidency be illegitimate?

Get rid of the two party system! Vote for a parties platform not for an individual! Term limits! And never vote for a candidate that says they are going to raise your taxes.

Pacfanweb said:

---

Here's what is really terrible about all of this:

I have friends and relatives....from super-smart to not-so-smart...blue collar folks, and engineer types with patents and software geniuses.....who are all-in on this conspiracy "the election was stolen" crap.

It's very disconcerting, how people who really are very intelligent can be duped into believing such BS without even considering that it might be all BS.

I have people who text me and post things where they think they're privy to things the rest of us don't know. As if I couldn't join Parler and see the same crap, lol.

Someone texted me the other day and said he'd "seen the real #'s and Trump actually won California". And believes it.

These folks actually believe they are part of some inside information network. Now, I can see how some of the less-gifted among us fall for this crap. We all have those types of friends, and probably some of them have been posting these bogus memes on FB for years now. You roll your eyes and scroll on past.

But for your smarter friends, folks that you KNOW should be above this, to fall "all in" on it?

We're in a really bad place as a country. All this Russian/Chinese/whoever disinformation is evidently working. It has taken its toll.

You can see it on the Brickyard....I don't post but read there occasionally....I saw a couple on the election thread claiming "this is a rapidly-developing situation behind the scenes, information is coming fast".

These folks really believe they're part of some investigative effort. They're even still posting the lie about the US Army raiding some server farm in Europe, which the Army has flatly denied. It didn't happen in any form or fashion.

A simply search finds that there are no election servers in Europe, all the servers related to the election were located in the USA and always have been. Further, the original tweet about an alleged raid didn't mention Dominion....someone added that in later.

But here is what these folks are running with:

"So our military does a little raid in Germany to retrieve the server where our voting info was routed," the posts read. "After analysis of the server, they discover that this is what the voting outcome actually looks like."

Such utter, complete BS. If there was such a raid, you think some idiot on a social media site would know about it, and that quickly? It's laughable, if it wasn't so sad that folks buy this crap.

Trump is making it worse. I really wish he'd come out and say "Look, I lost fair and square. Time to transition" and show some damn class. But I suspect he's probably one of the ones eating that BS up, like the other folks on Parler and elsewhere. Even when he knows the truth of the matter is different.

I don't know how we come back from this. Going to be a hard process. The misinformation has sown some very productive seeds of mistrust here.

---

Yea, that ain't gonna happen... you can keep saying everything you've said above and it's not going to change anything. This process is going to be a fight till the bitter end.

I say: quit *****ing and accept the fact that Trump is going to continue the fight for State Electors.

Based on the some of things I'm reading, everyone better pay attention to Phill Kline and Sydney Powell. Sydney Powell has been un-encumbered from the Trump lawyers. She may be mad; however, she may blow the whole system up. This would include both Democrats and Republicans. If she does, then I say go for it.

For me: I can handle a Trump loss if we can just blow the whole damn system up. Bring them all down! These people are as corrupt as they can get! Damn near everyone of them...

BTW, the PA judge that gave the scathing response to Rudy's team, last week; well he just gave them an appeal.

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference.

that's funny..

There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

really?

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

if you are that confident, then let them be fools...

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

if you are that confident, then let them be fools... play the long game and Republicans will never win another national election.

---

Blow what system up?

caryking said:

---

Based on the some of things I'm reading, everyone better pay attention to Phill Kline and Sydney Powell. Sydney Powell has been un-encumbered from the Trump lawyers. She may be mad; however, she may blow the whole system up. This would include both Democrats and Republicans. If she does, then I say go for it.

For me: I can handle a Trump loss if we can just blow the whole damn system up. Bring them all down! These people are as corrupt as they can get! Damn near everyone of them...

BTW, the PA judge that gave the scathing response to Rudy's team, last week; well he just gave them an appeal.

---

So Sidney Powell is going to work on this pro bono now?

PackBacker07 said:

---

Blow what system up?

---

Don't know! She is making some strong allegations on insider trading stuff (not stock market but kick backs) relating to both political parties regarding the election.

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Based on the some of things I'm reading, everyone better pay attention to Phill Kline and Sydney Powell. Sydney Powell has been un-encumbered from the Trump lawyers. She may be mad; however, she may blow the whole system up. This would include both Democrats and Republicans. If she does, then I say go for it.

For me: I can handle a Trump loss if we can just blow the whole damn system up. Bring them all down! These people are as corrupt as they can get! Damn near everyone of them...

BTW, the PA judge that gave the scathing response to Rudy's team, last week; well he just gave them an appeal.

---

So Sidney Powell is going to work on this pro bono now?

---

Don't know how she will be compensated. Perhaps, you can do some due diligence and report back.

Why would an esteemed lawyer, with a career no where near its end, be saying the things she saying?

1) she is bat assed crazy? Or
2) she has something of biblical proportions as she says...

If it's #2, then I hope it brings them all down... Republican too..

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference. There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

---

Sorry but this is just distorted. The GOP politicians were for the most part the adults in the room for decades. I assume your definition of adult in the room is someone who "speaks presidential" or looks well mannered, polite, is quiet and speaks reservedly. Bush as president sounded very presidential in speeches and spent the rest of his time hiding while the democrats and their media prop beat him over the ****ing head for years. That ended with such a low approval rating for Bush and GOP that a new democrat party arose under Barak Obama who ushered in the new era of leftwing extremism. Every campaign for the last 40 years throughout my life has involved democrats screaming crazy hyperbolic statements and getting away with it while also talking empty platitudes and minority pandering. Meanwhile GOP politicians would just stand there and try to be civil and boring. Never fighting back against the branding the democrats put on them.

Romney was very nice and well spoken and would obey whatever the narrative was. So was McCain. These guys actually revered the democrat leaders in a way that Mike O'Cain revered UNC in his time at State. With the old country club GOP led by those types you always knew who the true masters were in DC. I never saw the GOP fight as a party like the democrats do until Trump. Only Trump has had the guts to fight back against the entire democrat apparatus including DC bureaucrats and the media.

I could go on about the movement itself but I'll leave that for another post/ thread.

ncsualum05 said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference. There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

---

Sorry but this is just distorted. The GOP politicians were for the most part the adults in the room for decades. I assume your definition of adult in the room is someone who "speaks presidential" or looks well mannered, polite, is quiet and speaks reservedly. Bush as president sounded very presidential in speeches and spent the rest of his time hiding while the democrats and their media prop beat him over the ****ing head for years. That ended with such a low approval rating for Bush and GOP that a new democrat party arose under Barak Obama who ushered in the new era of leftwing extremism. Every campaign for the last 40 years throughout my life has involved democrats screaming crazy hyperbolic statements and getting away with it while also talking empty platitudes and minority pandering. Meanwhile GOP politicians would just stand there and try to be civil and boring. Never fighting back against the branding the democrats put on them.

Romney was very nice and well spoken and would obey whatever the narrative was. So was McCain. These guys actually revered the democrat leaders in a way that Mike O'Cain revered UNC in his time at State. With the old country club GOP led by those types you always knew who the true masters were in DC. I never saw the GOP fight as a party like the democrats do until Trump. Only Trump has had the guts to fight back against the entire democrat apparatus including DC bureaucrats and the media.

I could go on about the movement itself but I'll leave that for another post/ thread.

---

Any analysis that presumes one side cornered the market on good behavior for decades at a time is completely full of *****

That is all.

Civilized said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference. There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

---

Sorry but this is just distorted. The GOP politicians were for the most part the adults in the room for decades. I assume your definition of adult in the room is someone who "speaks presidential" or looks well mannered, polite, is quiet and speaks reservedly. Bush as president sounded very presidential in speeches and spent the rest of his time hiding while the democrats and their media prop beat him over the ****ing head for years. That ended with such a low approval rating for Bush and GOP that a new democrat party arose under Barak Obama who ushered in the new era of leftwing extremism. Every campaign for the last 40 years throughout my life has involved democrats screaming crazy hyperbolic statements and getting away with it while also talking empty platitudes and minority pandering. Meanwhile GOP politicians would just stand there and try to be civil and boring. Never fighting back against the branding the democrats put on them.

Romney was very nice and well spoken and would obey whatever the narrative was. So was McCain. These guys actually revered the democrat leaders in a way that Mike O'Cain revered UNC in his time at State. With the old country club GOP led by those types you always knew who the true masters were in DC. I never saw the GOP fight as a party like the democrats do until Trump. Only Trump has had the guts to fight back against the entire democrat apparatus including DC bureaucrats and the media.

I could go on about the movement itself but I'll leave that for another post/ thread.

---

Any analysis that presumes one side cornered the market on good behavior for decades at a time is completely full of *****

That is all.

---

It's really funny how similar that was to things I've seen Democrats post about the Republican party

IseWolf22 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Any analysis that presumes one side cornered the market on good behavior for decades at a time is completely full of *****

That is all.

---

It's really funny how similar that was to things I've seen Democrats post about the Republican party

---

These parties are much more similar than they are different in the broader context of demographic makeup and human behavior, and given that we are talking about hundreds to thousands of different politicians over decades, party behaviors will approximate each other too.

To claim anything else is just seeing what you want to see.

ncsualum05 said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference. There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

---

Sorry but this is just distorted. The GOP politicians were for the most part the adults in the room for decades. I assume your definition of adult in the room is someone who "speaks presidential" or looks well mannered, polite, is quiet and speaks reservedly. Bush as president sounded very presidential in speeches and spent the rest of his time hiding while the democrats and their media prop beat him over the ****ing head for years. That ended with such a low approval rating for Bush and GOP that a new democrat party arose under Barak Obama who ushered in the new era of leftwing extremism. Every campaign for the last 40 years throughout my life has involved democrats screaming crazy hyperbolic statements and getting away with it while also talking empty platitudes and minority pandering. Meanwhile GOP politicians would just stand there and try to be civil and boring. Never fighting back against the branding the democrats put on them.

Romney was very nice and well spoken and would obey whatever the narrative was. So was McCain. These guys actually revered the democrat leaders in a way that Mike O'Cain revered UNC in his time at State. With the old country club GOP led by those types you always knew who the true masters were in DC. I never saw the GOP fight as a party like the democrats do until Trump. Only Trump has had the guts to fight back against the entire democrat apparatus including DC bureaucrats and the media.

I could go on about the movement itself but I'll leave that for another post/ thread.

---

You're not totally wrong. The Pubs DID "sit back and take it", to an extent. But I'd disagree that they did nothing....Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America proves otherwise. He kicked Clinton in the nuts and took over the legislative branches for the first time in over 40 years, IIRC.

The Dems did go full idiot mode after their attempts to steal the 2000 election were unsuccessful.

The Pubs returned the favor, and then the Dems did the same thing and here we are.

The answer to how the left has acted over the years isn't to get down in the mud with them and act 10x as ridiculous in the other direction.

To fight back? Sure.
I get that folks liked that Trump didn't just "take it". I liked that, too.

But:
To fight back while giving credence to all this conspiracy ridiculousness and looking like morons while doing so? NO.

And now here we are, with idiots in the Republican party that are actually elected officials, whose bull**** detectors evidently are offline, buying into all this nonsense about servers being confiscated and truckloads of ballots arriving in the dead of night with thousands of votes only for Biden, etc.

None of which has been proven to be the case.

THAT is what I meant by "Adults in the room".

You lost. Now do it with some damned dignity and class. I realize neither of those terms is Trump familiar with, but DAMN.....SOMEONE up there has to be. Stop kissing this fool's ass and tell it like it is.

There's no conspiracy, the election wasn't stolen, the People simply decided they had enough.

Now let's get on with the transition, hope for the best as we always do, and get rid of all this divisiveness. It didn't start with Trump, but there's no reason it can't end with him.

Pacfanweb said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

I'm not interested in "but the Democrats".

Someone has to be the adult in the room. Claiming Trump's presidency was illegitimate was not a big thing. It certainly has not been a big thing throughout his term.

But that's irrelevant. Whether the other side does ridiculous things or not is no excuse for conservatives and Republicans to do the same thing, except times 100.

It would be different if there was any truth in the matter, like there was with Trump and Russia interference. There was plenty of evidence there, and many people were indicted and convicted or plead guilty.

The only interference it's going to be found for this election it's probably going to be a few little podunk spots here and there where some idiot threw out 500 votes or something.

There is not, and it's not going to be found that there were hundreds of thousands, much less millions of votes that either didn't count or counted for the wrong person.

---

Sorry but this is just distorted. The GOP politicians were for the most part the adults in the room for decades. I assume your definition of adult in the room is someone who "speaks presidential" or looks well mannered, polite, is quiet and speaks reservedly. Bush as president sounded very presidential in speeches and spent the rest of his time hiding while the democrats and their media prop beat him over the ****ing head for years. That ended with such a low approval rating for Bush and GOP that a new democrat party arose under Barak Obama who ushered in the new era of leftwing extremism. Every campaign for the last 40 years throughout my life has involved democrats screaming crazy hyperbolic statements and getting away with it while also talking empty platitudes and minority pandering. Meanwhile GOP politicians would just stand there and try to be civil and boring. Never fighting back against the branding the democrats put on them.

Romney was very nice and well spoken and would obey whatever the narrative was. So was McCain. These guys actually revered the democrat leaders in a way that Mike O'Cain revered UNC in his time at State. With the old country club GOP led by those types you always knew who the true masters were in DC. I never saw the GOP fight as a party like the democrats do until Trump. Only Trump has had the guts to fight back against the entire democrat apparatus including DC bureaucrats and the media.

I could go on about the movement itself but I'll leave that for another post/ thread.

---

You're not totally wrong. The Pubs DID "sit back and take it", to an extent. But I'd disagree that they did nothing....Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America proves otherwise. He kicked Clinton in the nuts and took over the legislative branches for the first time in over 40 years, IIRC.

The Dems did go full idiot mode after their attempts to steal the 2000 election were unsuccessful.

The Pubs returned the favor, and then the Dems did the same thing and here we are.

The answer to how the left has acted over the years isn't to get down in the mud with them and act 10x as ridiculous in the other direction.

To fight back? Sure.
I get that folks liked that Trump didn't just "take it". I liked that, too.

But:
To fight back while giving credence to all this conspiracy ridiculousness and looking like morons while doing so? NO.

And now here we are, with idiots in the Republican party that are actually elected officials, whose bull**** detectors evidently are offline, buying into all this nonsense about servers being confiscated and truckloads of ballots arriving in the dead of night with thousands of votes only for Biden, etc.

None of which has been proven to be the case.

THAT is what I meant by "Adults in the room".

You lost. Now do it with some damned dignity and class. I realize neither of those terms is Trump familiar with, but DAMN.....SOMEONE up there has to be. Stop kissing this fool's ass and tell it like it is.

There's no conspiracy, the election wasn't stolen, the People simply decided they had enough.

Now let's get on with the transition, hope for the best as we always do, and get rid of all this divisiveness. It didn't start with Trump, but there's no reason it can't end with him.

---

You're right that both sides have bickered and I wasn't arguing that gop politicians are saints. I'm just simply pointing out that over the years they were quite content to get their piece of the pie and betray the voters to bow down to big media and big democrat establishment. But let's move to now...

Fighting back looks ugly sometimes. You don't fight 90% of corporate media, DC govt, globalism, and everything else without it looking ugly. If you're referring to the election let it play out. What are you so angry about? There was some obvious weird stuff going on. Let's get to the bottom of it. Before a dimented old man who's not even going to be running the country assumes power for whatever oligarchs are in line let's just check everything out. Nobody is kissing a fool's ass here. You want to talk conspiracies that's the democrats... Russia, Ukraine, mailboxes, etc! The Russia deal opened my eyes to the cold fact that you CAN'T GO ANY LOWER than the democrat establishment. You can't fight dirty enough.

But whatever. They should investigate as long as they damn well want and get to the bottom of whatever they can. And even if/ when transition happens there's more to investigate go right ahead. That's all congress is anymore anyway is an investigative body. There sure isn't much legislation going on... and that's probably better for America anyway. Downside is courts and presidents make far too much law.

If this ends in Trump's army turning around and attacking the republican establishment, I'm all for it!

Yep, y'all are right, the pubs were in on it too... go get em'!!!!

Wolfpackrich1 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

Here's what is really terrible about all of this:

I have friends and relatives....from super-smart to not-so-smart...blue collar folks, and engineer types with patents and software geniuses.....who are all-in on this conspiracy "the election was stolen" crap.

It's very disconcerting, how people who really are very intelligent can be duped into believing such BS without even considering that it might be all BS.

I have people who text me and post things where they think they're privy to things the rest of us don't know. As if I couldn't join Parler and see the same crap, lol.

Someone texted me the other day and said he'd "seen the real #'s and Trump actually won California". And believes it.

These folks actually believe they are part of some inside information network. Now, I can see how some of the less-gifted among us fall for this crap. We all have those types of friends, and probably some of them have been posting these bogus memes on FB for years now. You roll your eyes and scroll on past.

But for your smarter friends, folks that you KNOW should be above this, to fall "all in" on it?

We're in a really bad place as a country. All this Russian/Chinese/whoever disinformation is evidently working. It has taken its toll.

You can see it on the Brickyard....I don't post but read there occasionally....I saw a couple on the election thread claiming "this is a rapidly-developing situation behind the scenes, information is coming fast".

These folks really believe they're part of some investigative effort. They're even still posting the lie about the US Army raiding some server farm in Europe, which the Army has flatly denied. It didn't happen in any form or fashion.

A simply search finds that there are no election servers in Europe, all the servers related to the election were located in the USA and always have been. Further, the original tweet about an alleged raid didn't mention Dominion....someone added that in later.

But here is what these folks are running with:

"So our military does a little raid in Germany to retrieve the server where our voting info was routed," the posts read. "After analysis of the server, they discover that this is what the voting outcome actually looks like."

Such utter, complete BS. If there was such a raid, you think some idiot on a social media site would know about it, and that quickly? It's laughable, if it wasn't so sad that folks buy this crap.

Trump is making it worse. I really wish he'd come out and say "Look, I lost fair and square. Time to transition" and show some damn class. But I suspect he's probably one of the ones eating that BS up, like the other folks on Parler and elsewhere. Even when he knows the truth of the matter is different.

I don't know how we come back from this. Going to be a hard process. The misinformation has sown some very productive seeds of mistrust here.

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Yea, that ain't gonna happen... you can keep saying everything you've said above and it's not going to change anything. This process is going to be a fight till the bitter end.

I say: quit *****ing and accept the fact that Trump is going to continue the fight for State Electors.

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Caryking we are on separate sides of the political spectrum. However I have found you are reasonable and do listen another's view. So it is with that preface I say you could not be more wrong about accepting Trump's fight for State Electors. The time to do that is before an election not after. Accepting an election and ceding power is the most important thing that happens in a democracy.

A lot of history books give credit to John Adams as being the first to cede power and a peaceful transition of power in the United States. However I think it was George Washington when in 1783 he resigned his commission and went home to Mount Vernon.

Please note this was before Washington was President.
Also Note When King George III heard that Washington was going to do this he told an American painter painting his portrait that if Washington did this he would be the greatest man in the world.

Maybe he was. Maybe he was not. But he set a precedent that is important to The United States of America.

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I agree and thank you for recognizing I try to understand both sides. I will say this:

1) personally, I am an extremely conservative Christian
2) politically, I am very closely tied to libertarianism
3) I have never voted for a democrat and have 100% of the time voted Republican
4) I am 54 years old

Now, talking about Republicans, I have been to a number of small fund raising events for Republican: two of which are for current US Senators. I was at six person event for one that included Karl Rove. I could only wish for a solid libertarian leaning candidate as the two US Senators we have are not good! I went to an earlier event for Burr. When I left, I told my wife: that guy is sleezy! But, I vote him as he's the less of two evils.

What I can tell you based on my experience is that we have a great political system that is marred with corrupt people. The amount of money driving both parties is astounding.

That is why I am more libertarian! None of us is going to agree 100% of the time; so, I believe, the only role for our federal government is to protect our liberties, no matter what!

I certainly can see why Democrats have policies they want to get enacted. I completely disagree with most of them and if I want to push my Conservative Christian policies; then, I know some will disagree with me. With that, I believe we should back out of federal policy issues and leave them to the States. I believe it's the only way for people to quit fighting. Try reading reason.com for a different perspective.

Oh, and BTW; now is the prescribed time to fight for electors according to the constitution. So, that, I have no problem debating...

Pacfanweb said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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You're right that both sides have bickered and I wasn't arguing that gop politicians are saints. I'm just simply pointing out that over the years they were quite content to get their piece of the pie and betray the voters to bow down to big media and big democrat establishment. But let's move to now...

Fighting back looks ugly sometimes. You don't fight 90% of corporate media, DC govt, globalism, and everything else without it looking ugly. If you're referring to the election let it play out. What are you so angry about? There was some obvious weird stuff going on. Let's get to the bottom of it. Before a dimented old man who's not even going to be running the country assumes power for whatever oligarchs are in line let's just check everything out. Nobody is kissing a fool's ass here. You want to talk conspiracies that's the democrats... Russia, Ukraine, mailboxes, etc! The Russia deal opened my eyes to the cold fact that you CAN'T GO ANY LOWER than the democrat establishment. You can't fight dirty enough.

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Well, I agree about "fighting back looks ugly". Sometimes.

But there's legitimately fighting back, and then there's "totally denying the facts and just making crap up".

And that's exactly what's going on now.

So your reference to Russia and whatnot.....it was legit. There actually WAS some funny business going on between Trump's people and Russia. That's a proven, stone-cold fact.

But I still see Pubs that like to act like nothing was found and chant "Russia Russia Russia" at the Dems and deride them because they "didn't get Trump" after all was said and done.

But a LOT was found. Both sides should have been appalled.

So that was not illegitimate on the part of the Dems. Should it have gone to impeachment? Maybe not, but the investigation absolutely DID find quite a bit.

This is another example of "adults in the room" being needed. If the Pubs had any of those, they'd have been rightly pissed by all that. Just like they should be pissed at the Trump campaign's shenanigans right now.

But I see very, very few adults standing up and saying "Okay, that's enough". And telling it like it is.

That's another sad byproduct of the 24/7 news and social media. People are afraid to stand up and tell the truth for being attacked.

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The republicans did have adults in the room. Their names were John McCain and Mitt Romney. These two men are the same upstanding politicians (or as upstanding as a politician can be these days) as they were in 2008 and 2012 when republicans went to bat for them. Instead just a few years later they either are or were martyrs and outcasts within their own party.