SupplyChainPack said:

---

And, aside from your point just being flat out wrong....this may be the gem of the entire thread:

"He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. "

After what dems and the left have done the last four years, you are now going to hop on a soapbox and scream about Trump poisoning the atmosphere in the country?

Truly, you have completely taken leave of your senses.

---

The Dems have done exactly what the Republicans did for 8 years of Obama. And that was what the Dems did for 8 years of W. Rinse and repeat.

Only difference is, the Dems have the media on their side

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Amen.

There have been so many lies and fabrications from Trump that the've become completely normalized.

I remember right after (within days) of his inauguration in 2017 and KellyAnne Conway used the phrase "alternative facts" to describe Spicer's description of the allegedly massive crowds (that were actually quite small) at Trump's inauguration.

I thought to myself, "this woman is bat**** crazy for standing up there in front of the county straight-faced and calling a complete fabrication an 'alternative fact'. Nobody's going to believe that *****"

Fast forward four years and we've all been subjected to Trump's "alternative fact" deluges via Twitter and in his press conferences virtually every day of his administration. For tens of millions of his sheep, he literally spoke a fabricated alternate reality into existence where his lies are true, and media and people that dispute those crazy lies are in on the conspiracy against him, or against the right.

Electing a contrarian with original thoughts that are untethered to conventional Washington wisdom = great.

Electing a trashy, petulant, impulsive, insecure, ill-equipped child that has a hyper-dysfunctional relationship with the truth and calling that guy a contrarian = extraordinarily damaging to our country.

---

We have also been subject to the same things by the media for the most part...and everyone is just suppose to accept it.

---

"The media" is thousands of reporters, writers, editors, etc. All make honest mistakes from time to time. Some have political agendas. Essentially none of them bold-faced lie multiple times on a daily basis the way Trump does.

But regardless, we don't elect the media. Around half the country chose to put a compulsive liar in the President's chair.

We should all agree that his treating the truth as an inconvenience that can just be edited to suit him has been terrible damaging for our country.

---

You are saying that with a straight face tells me a lot about you! Evasive truths are as bad as any so-called lie. They are manipulating and make people think they are true.

Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!

---

Deflect all you want....I don't disagree about Hunter Biden at all, but that doesn't change the fact that Trump lies as easily as he breathes.

You can just go to any month during his Presidency, take any 10 tweets and most of them will likely be lies.

We overlooked them because of 2 reasons:
1. The economy was going well and that's what most people care about.
2. It made the media go nuts and many of us still enjoyed their gnashing of teeth

But now it's different: He's lost. It was fair...as fair as any other election. There was nothing unprecedented about this one, other than voter turnout. He lost. He hasn't accepted it like a man. He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. He's ruining all the good he did.
And folks like you are basically jumping in front of a bullet for him, with zero regard for the facts.

It's very sad to see.

---

If the President is such a bald-faced lier, please take his tweets, starting today, and lets analyze them...

here's two this morning:

---

Great examples. Those are two lies by Trump right there. Neither of those statements are true and there's zero evidence to think there's any truth in them. Nice job.
He's just repeating more BS from that "forensic audit" that he paid for. Shocking that an audit done by someone associated with the Trump defense found something dubious.

pineknollshoresking said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

... numerous wins in the war against human trafficking and drug trafficking across our borders,
recognition and protection (where he could) of unborn human life,
Instead of closing down Gitmo, keeping it open, and keeping some of the world's worst terrorists locked down, as they should be,
Protecting our second amendment rights,
Keeping the economy from collapsing during the China pandemic,
Freakishly fast (you could call it warp speed) move to market of three new vaccines - and having them ready to distribute the second they were approved,
Ending the individual mandate,
Negotiating and signing historic peace agreements in the middle east.
.....

---

And the mouthpiece of the media said he was crazy for saying it would be ready before the end of the year. Biden said he wouldn't take a vaccine that was (basically) done by Trump. What a hack!!!

Now, the damn vaccine is being distributed in record time. I can tell you Governments don't do this. It takes a person, that has a different sense of urgency, to get something done. TRUMP DID THAT!!!!

Through all his so-called rhetoric people are discussed by, he actually gets stuff done!!!

Give the guy some damn credit!!!!!!!

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one else would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

---

That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

Pacfanweb said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

"Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!"

Yep, perfect example.

---

Has the media actually said that lately? Or were they simply slow playing that story? Which is not good at all, no doubt, but not giving something air time isn't the same as blatant lying, like:

"I won the election by a lot"

Let me look through his recent tweets:

"68% error rate in Michigan Voting Machines."

" Tremendous problems being found with voting machines. They are so far off it is ridiculous. Able to take a landslide victory and reduce it to a tight loss. This is not what the USA is all about. Law enforcement shielding machines. DO NOT TAMPER, a crime. Much more to come!"

"Swing States that have found massive VOTER FRAUD, which is all of them, CANNOT LEGALLY CERTIFY these votes as complete & correct without committing a severely punishable crime. Everybody knows that dead people, below age people, illegal immigrants, fake signatures, prisoners,........and many others voted illegally. Also, machine "glitches" (another word for FRAUD), ballot harvesting, non-resident voters, fake ballots, "stuffing the ballot box", votes for pay, roughed up Republican Poll Watchers, and sometimes even more votes than people voting, took...."

"The fact that the Supreme Court wouldn't find standing in an original jurisdiction matter between multiple states, and including the President of the States, is absurd. It is enumerated in the Constitution..."

"I WON THE ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE, but remember, I only think in terms of legal votes, not all of the fake voters and fraud that miraculously floated in from everywhere! What a disgrace!"

"No Presidential candidate ever came even close to losing an Election who won Iowa, Florida and Ohio. I won all three, by a lot!"

That's just going back to December 10th. This is daily. Not a thing in any of those tweets is true. And it's always been like that.

Now the media certainly has bias and should be called out and answer for that, but come on.....nobody lies repeatedly on the national stage like Trump has, does and continues to. Nobody. Other than all these right wing sites that repeat all the same stuff....you know, the places where he gets his material from?

---

There was this significant event called the presidential election that marked the delineation of them treating as a wild conspiracy theory (or ignoring it altogether) - and them now treating (although still very mildly) as a legitimate story.

Don't you think maybe that significant event had something to do with the drastic change in how the story has been handled?

Pacfanweb said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

"Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!"

Yep, perfect example.

---

Has the media actually said that lately? Or were they simply slow playing that story? Which is not good at all, no doubt, but not giving something air time isn't the same as blatant lying, like:

"I won the election by a lot"

Let me look through his recent tweets:

"68% error rate in Michigan Voting Machines."

" Tremendous problems being found with voting machines. They are so far off it is ridiculous. Able to take a landslide victory and reduce it to a tight loss. This is not what the USA is all about. Law enforcement shielding machines. DO NOT TAMPER, a crime. Much more to come!"

"Swing States that have found massive VOTER FRAUD, which is all of them, CANNOT LEGALLY CERTIFY these votes as complete & correct without committing a severely punishable crime. Everybody knows that dead people, below age people, illegal immigrants, fake signatures, prisoners,........and many others voted illegally. Also, machine "glitches" (another word for FRAUD), ballot harvesting, non-resident voters, fake ballots, "stuffing the ballot box", votes for pay, roughed up Republican Poll Watchers, and sometimes even more votes than people voting, took...."

"The fact that the Supreme Court wouldn't find standing in an original jurisdiction matter between multiple states, and including the President of the States, is absurd. It is enumerated in the Constitution..."

"I WON THE ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE, but remember, I only think in terms of legal votes, not all of the fake voters and fraud that miraculously floated in from everywhere! What a disgrace!"

"No Presidential candidate ever came even close to losing an Election who won Iowa, Florida and Ohio. I won all three, by a lot!"

That's just going back to December 10th. This is daily. Not a thing in any of those tweets is true. And it's always been like that.

Now the media certainly has bias and should be called out and answer for that, but come on.....nobody lies repeatedly on the national stage like Trump has, does and continues to. Nobody. Other than all these right wing sites that repeat all the same stuff....you know, the places where he gets his material from?

---

"I won the election by a lot" - That's not lie! It's his believe based on the information he's being provided.

"68% error rate in Michigan Voting Machines." - That is factual report that hasn't been disputed.

Swing States that have found massive VOTER FRAUD, which is all of them, CANNOT LEGALLY CERTIFY these votes as complete & correct without committing a severely punishable crime. Everybody knows that dead people, below age people, illegal immigrants, fake signatures, prisoners,........and many others voted illegally. Also, machine "glitches" (another word for FRAUD), ballot harvesting, non-resident voters, fake ballots, "stuffing the ballot box", votes for pay, roughed up Republican Poll Watchers, and sometimes even more votes than people voting, took...."

How can this be a lie? You may not agree with him; however, people are showing these facts. Example: dead people. That's pretty easy to determine and multiple people have list of people that fall in this category. This is why I say that it's now the Biden team that needs to step in and help resolve this. The list are the list. Trump people are saying they are dead. People are either dead or alive. This would be easy to dispute, right?

"The fact that the Supreme Court wouldn't find standing in an original jurisdiction matter between multiple states, and including the President of the States, is absurd. It is enumerated in the Constitution..."

People on the Trump team said this was going to be tough to expect the SCOTUS to take this by Texas; however, the SCOTUS is the only place for States to file complaints against another State. Also, I find it interesting that the President doesn't have standing at the Supreme Court. Really?

And I can go on and on with responses...

SupplyChainPack said:

---

...
Huge tax cuts for individuals and American businesses,
Oh, and have you noted what gas prices have been the last four years vs. the previous eight?


And so much more.... With Trump doing most of it without help from anyone - instead having to fight every step of the way for the above mentioned successes.

Yes indeed - a golden age.

---

What huge tax cut for individuals? I got $2.80 every two weeks. No it did not help me at April 15th either. And who is going to pay for the budget deficit that has swelled tremendously under Trump and yes that was before Covid bail out packages.

My Children and Granchilden will be paying for the deficit. And yours!

And as far as booming economy a president that is going to take credit before a Pandemic for the economy has to take blame for the economy when the USA has had the worse results on Covid than any other Western Country. Trump's record on the economy is the whole four years he served. Or better said served himself.

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

---

That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

---

But that's simply false. There was massive and obvious voter fraud for Biden.

Every one knows this - it's simply a matter of who is honest about it and who isn't.

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Amen.

There have been so many lies and fabrications from Trump that the've become completely normalized.

I remember right after (within days) of his inauguration in 2017 and KellyAnne Conway used the phrase "alternative facts" to describe Spicer's description of the allegedly massive crowds (that were actually quite small) at Trump's inauguration.

I thought to myself, "this woman is bat**** crazy for standing up there in front of the county straight-faced and calling a complete fabrication an 'alternative fact'. Nobody's going to believe that *****"

Fast forward four years and we've all been subjected to Trump's "alternative fact" deluges via Twitter and in his press conferences virtually every day of his administration. For tens of millions of his sheep, he literally spoke a fabricated alternate reality into existence where his lies are true, and media and people that dispute those crazy lies are in on the conspiracy against him, or against the right.

Electing a contrarian with original thoughts that are untethered to conventional Washington wisdom = great.

Electing a trashy, petulant, impulsive, insecure, ill-equipped child that has a hyper-dysfunctional relationship with the truth and calling that guy a contrarian = extraordinarily damaging to our country.

---

We have also been subject to the same things by the media for the most part...and everyone is just suppose to accept it.

---

"The media" is thousands of reporters, writers, editors, etc. All make honest mistakes from time to time. Some have political agendas. Essentially none of them bold-faced lie multiple times on a daily basis the way Trump does.

But regardless, we don't elect the media. Around half the country chose to put a compulsive liar in the President's chair.

We should all agree that his treating the truth as an inconvenience that can just be edited to suit him has been terrible damaging for our country.

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

---

That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

---

But that's simply false. There was massive and obvious voter fraud for Biden.

Every one knows this - it's simply a matter of who is honest about it and who isn't.

---

The election was decided long before Election Day. The process is being exposed. This was the last ditch attempt for the democrats to hold on and they got caught. The MSM has been exposed as well. This all will come to judgement in the next 4 years. Congrats dems.... you have shown who you are. And as far as the "moderate".... just stop.

Pacfanweb said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

And, aside from your point just being flat out wrong....this may be the gem of the entire thread:

"He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. "

After what dems and the left have done the last four years, you are now going to hop on a soapbox and scream about Trump poisoning the atmosphere in the country?

Truly, you have completely taken leave of your senses.

---

The Dems have done exactly what the Republicans did for 8 years of Obama. And that was what the Dems did for 8 years of W. Rinse and repeat.

Only difference is, the Dems have the media on their side

---

Your last sentence... do not gloss over that. That is without a doubt the single largest shaping of this country up to this point for decades. The left now shapes America through the schools and other govt agencies but the media... that is what has made it all possible.

Trump and GOP politicians in support of Trump are hated by a large portion of population who turns on their news at night and that media is telling them to hate them b/c they are destroying the country or are russian assets.

Where as when a real story takes place like fraud or a Hunter Biden scandal... well the media does a blackout. So conservative or independent media which reports truth does cover something that none of the traditional media will cover then it can be easily dismissed as a conspiracy. The credibility of the website or channel can be attacked with impunity. And best of all... the left/ establishment can get google, twitter, and facebook to censor or fact check the information. So all the kids or people in their 20s that use only their facebook or their phone news for info are going to get spoonfed the propaganda.

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

---

That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

---

But that's simply false. There was massive and obvious voter fraud for Biden.

Every one knows this - it's simply a matter of who is honest about it and who isn't.

---

Once again, if that was the case, why did Trump not present evidence of that in the courts? You keep saying it's so obvious, yet every single example anybody has ever put up has been debunked and proven to be BS. Continuing to claim there was fraud with zero evidence, does not make it so.

Wolfpackrich1 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

...
Huge tax cuts for individuals and American businesses,
Oh, and have you noted what gas prices have been the last four years vs. the previous eight?


And so much more.... With Trump doing most of it without help from anyone - instead having to fight every step of the way for the above mentioned successes.

Yes indeed - a golden age.

---

What huge tax cut for individuals? I got $2.80 every two weeks. No it did not help me at April 15th either. And who is going to pay for the budget deficit that has swelled tremendously under Trump and yes that was before Covid bail out packages.

My Children and Granchilden will be paying for the deficit. And yours!

And as far as booming economy a president that is going to take credit before a Pandemic for the economy has to take blame for the economy when the USA has had the worse results on Covid than any other Western Country. Trump's record on the economy is the whole four years he served. Or better said served himself.

---

Then you were paying very little in taxes in the first place. I'm not a millionaire, but I got a nice reduction in my taxes - I don't think it was just me.

Pacfanweb said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

---

Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

---

That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

---

But that's simply false. There was massive and obvious voter fraud for Biden.

Every one knows this - it's simply a matter of who is honest about it and who isn't.

---

Once again, if that was the case, why did Trump not present evidence of that in the courts? You keep saying it's so obvious, yet every single example anybody has ever put up has been debunked and proven to be BS. Continuing to claim there was fraud with zero evidence, does not make it so.

---

Pacfan, do you really believe all these people that have come forward with some issue is just flat out lying? Trump is not calling these people to lie... or, do you believe he did? You did say he is lying seven out of ten times he post...

Whether the evidence is presented in court, or not, for whatever reason (including the court not having hearings), that still doesn't make these people a lier.

I think you have to delineate your thoughts:

• People making accusations and writing them down in affidavits - are they lying?
• The court proceedings moving forward and ruling how they do - It is what it is...

I think it is very misguided to think all these people are just lying about this. That would be the most massive fraud we've ever seen. Are you really saying that?

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Wolfpackrich1 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

...
Huge tax cuts for individuals and American businesses,
Oh, and have you noted what gas prices have been the last four years vs. the previous eight?


And so much more.... With Trump doing most of it without help from anyone - instead having to fight every step of the way for the above mentioned successes.

Yes indeed - a golden age.

---

What huge tax cut for individuals? I got $2.80 every two weeks. No it did not help me at April 15th either. And who is going to pay for the budget deficit that has swelled tremendously under Trump and yes that was before Covid bail out packages.

My Children and Granchilden will be paying for the deficit. And yours!

And as far as booming economy a president that is going to take credit before a Pandemic for the economy has to take blame for the economy when the USA has had the worse results on Covid than any other Western Country. Trump's record on the economy is the whole four years he served. Or better said served himself.

---

Then you were paying very little in taxes in the first place. I'm not a millionaire, but I got a nice reduction in my taxes - I don't think it was just me.

---

I paid more in taxes!

They have no evidence. if they had any evidence they would have presented it in any of the numerous trials they have had. Many if not most of the lawsuits were thrown out. The reason? No evidence.

But yet they have lawyers like Sydney Powell standing in front of cameras saying she is going to release the Kraken. For no other purposes than to fire up the Trump Base. Give them false hope. Because she knew she had no evidence.

Yet the Trumpers march on supporting a man who only cares about himself.

William Barr knew there was no evidence. So he said it. He was forced to resign yesterday. Five weeks left before Trump is to leave office.

Wow. What a circus the last four years have been.

pineknollshoresking said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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IseWolf22 said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

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caryking said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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Apparently the Arizona Legislature is also looking at sending electors to vote for Trump as well - If so that's 4 states.

---

At this point its my understanding that the legislatures of Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona have cast their electoral college votes for Trump. Even though the state is sending democrat electors, the legislature of each state can send electors as well. When you get dueling electors from a state the VP gets to decide which to accept, or not accept either.

This is fun....

---

The Wisconsin legislature just decided to send their own electors as well. That makes 5 states so far.....

---

Democrats need to do an investigation into election misconduct, immediately!!!

---

lol....

As much as people are going to raise hell about it the legislatures do have the right to do it. The question is what is Pence going to do in January. Since there are enough states that are sending separate sets of electors Pence can decide to either accept or deny the second set. Since enough states have gone this way to take the number of votes away from Biden he needs to win I think that Congress is going to vote for who is the next president. It gets really interesting them because each state only gets one vote with republicans holding the advantage there.

We haven't seen anything like this since the 1880s. Wild man

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They actually don't have the right to do it. They are constrained by their own state laws.

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Did he just say "violating their own state law" in regards to this election?

Is this the Twilight Zone?

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Lol...the legislatures in several states would like to have a word about their own courts circumventing the constitution to change election laws

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Your alternate electors are neither legal or constitutional. If anyone tries to litigate this it will likely be dismissed immediately

---

The way I understand things.. The Governor certifies electors; however, the state congress can also certify electors. My understanding is the congress electors along with the Governors electors are sealed and sent to the President of the Senate. He then can chose the electors from the sealed envelope.

So, I don't think its as cut and dry as: if the Governor doesn't certify them, then they are not legal...

---

State laws and/or their constitution decide the method of selecting electors. That method cannot be changed after election day (set by congress).
The state legislature does not have the authority to decide to select alternate electors outside their own state's electoral process. Pence cannot choose to ignore legal electors and recognize another group.

pineknollshoresking said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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pineknollshoresking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

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Civilized said:

---

Amen.

There have been so many lies and fabrications from Trump that the've become completely normalized.

I remember right after (within days) of his inauguration in 2017 and KellyAnne Conway used the phrase "alternative facts" to describe Spicer's description of the allegedly massive crowds (that were actually quite small) at Trump's inauguration.

I thought to myself, "this woman is bat**** crazy for standing up there in front of the county straight-faced and calling a complete fabrication an 'alternative fact'. Nobody's going to believe that *****"

Fast forward four years and we've all been subjected to Trump's "alternative fact" deluges via Twitter and in his press conferences virtually every day of his administration. For tens of millions of his sheep, he literally spoke a fabricated alternate reality into existence where his lies are true, and media and people that dispute those crazy lies are in on the conspiracy against him, or against the right.

Electing a contrarian with original thoughts that are untethered to conventional Washington wisdom = great.

Electing a trashy, petulant, impulsive, insecure, ill-equipped child that has a hyper-dysfunctional relationship with the truth and calling that guy a contrarian = extraordinarily damaging to our country.

---

We have also been subject to the same things by the media for the most part...and everyone is just suppose to accept it.

---

"The media" is thousands of reporters, writers, editors, etc. All make honest mistakes from time to time. Some have political agendas. Essentially none of them bold-faced lie multiple times on a daily basis the way Trump does.

But regardless, we don't elect the media. Around half the country chose to put a compulsive liar in the President's chair.

We should all agree that his treating the truth as an inconvenience that can just be edited to suit him has been terrible damaging for our country.

---

You are saying that with a straight face tells me a lot about you! Evasive truths are as bad as any so-called lie. They are manipulating and make people think they are true.

Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!

---

Deflect all you want....I don't disagree about Hunter Biden at all, but that doesn't change the fact that Trump lies as easily as he breathes.

You can just go to any month during his Presidency, take any 10 tweets and most of them will likely be lies.

We overlooked them because of 2 reasons:
1. The economy was going well and that's what most people care about.
2. It made the media go nuts and many of us still enjoyed their gnashing of teeth

But now it's different: He's lost. It was fair...as fair as any other election. There was nothing unprecedented about this one, other than voter turnout. He lost. He hasn't accepted it like a man. He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. He's ruining all the good he did.
And folks like you are basically jumping in front of a bullet for him, with zero regard for the facts.

It's very sad to see.

---

If the President is such a bald-faced lier, please take his tweets, starting today, and lets analyze them...

here's two this morning:

Dude is FOS as a Christmas turkey!!! Donald John Trump invented the SWAMP!

---

acslater1344 said:

---

Is it really a big surprise that Trump and his flunky followers have zero grace in defeat? Of course not!

It's like a football team that loses 38-17 and *****es about the refs being the only reason they lost. Shut the **** up, line up and shake hands like an adult.

---

mighty adult of you...

ciscopack said:

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pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Amen.

There have been so many lies and fabrications from Trump that the've become completely normalized.

I remember right after (within days) of his inauguration in 2017 and KellyAnne Conway used the phrase "alternative facts" to describe Spicer's description of the allegedly massive crowds (that were actually quite small) at Trump's inauguration.

I thought to myself, "this woman is bat**** crazy for standing up there in front of the county straight-faced and calling a complete fabrication an 'alternative fact'. Nobody's going to believe that *****"

Fast forward four years and we've all been subjected to Trump's "alternative fact" deluges via Twitter and in his press conferences virtually every day of his administration. For tens of millions of his sheep, he literally spoke a fabricated alternate reality into existence where his lies are true, and media and people that dispute those crazy lies are in on the conspiracy against him, or against the right.

Electing a contrarian with original thoughts that are untethered to conventional Washington wisdom = great.

Electing a trashy, petulant, impulsive, insecure, ill-equipped child that has a hyper-dysfunctional relationship with the truth and calling that guy a contrarian = extraordinarily damaging to our country.

---

We have also been subject to the same things by the media for the most part...and everyone is just suppose to accept it.

---

"The media" is thousands of reporters, writers, editors, etc. All make honest mistakes from time to time. Some have political agendas. Essentially none of them bold-faced lie multiple times on a daily basis the way Trump does.

But regardless, we don't elect the media. Around half the country chose to put a compulsive liar in the President's chair.

We should all agree that his treating the truth as an inconvenience that can just be edited to suit him has been terrible damaging for our country.

---

You are saying that with a straight face tells me a lot about you! Evasive truths are as bad as any so-called lie. They are manipulating and make people think they are true.

Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!

---

Deflect all you want....I don't disagree about Hunter Biden at all, but that doesn't change the fact that Trump lies as easily as he breathes.

You can just go to any month during his Presidency, take any 10 tweets and most of them will likely be lies.

We overlooked them because of 2 reasons:
1. The economy was going well and that's what most people care about.
2. It made the media go nuts and many of us still enjoyed their gnashing of teeth

But now it's different: He's lost. It was fair...as fair as any other election. There was nothing unprecedented about this one, other than voter turnout. He lost. He hasn't accepted it like a man. He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. He's ruining all the good he did.
And folks like you are basically jumping in front of a bullet for him, with zero regard for the facts.

It's very sad to see.

---

If the President is such a bald-faced lier, please take his tweets, starting today, and lets analyze them...

here's two this morning:

Dude is FOS as a Christmas turkey!!! Donald John Trump invented the SWAMP!

---

---

That is just a STUPID response...

pineknollshoresking said:

---

acslater1344 said:

---

Is it really a big surprise that Trump and his flunky followers have zero grace in defeat? Of course not!

It's like a football team that loses 38-17 and *****es about the refs being the only reason they lost. Shut the **** up, line up and shake hands like an adult.

---

mighty adult of you...

---

And you are being an adult? Calling people names when they don't follow you.

pineknollshoresking said:

---

ciscopack said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

pineknollshoresking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

cowboypack02 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Amen.

There have been so many lies and fabrications from Trump that the've become completely normalized.

I remember right after (within days) of his inauguration in 2017 and KellyAnne Conway used the phrase "alternative facts" to describe Spicer's description of the allegedly massive crowds (that were actually quite small) at Trump's inauguration.

I thought to myself, "this woman is bat**** crazy for standing up there in front of the county straight-faced and calling a complete fabrication an 'alternative fact'. Nobody's going to believe that *****"

Fast forward four years and we've all been subjected to Trump's "alternative fact" deluges via Twitter and in his press conferences virtually every day of his administration. For tens of millions of his sheep, he literally spoke a fabricated alternate reality into existence where his lies are true, and media and people that dispute those crazy lies are in on the conspiracy against him, or against the right.

Electing a contrarian with original thoughts that are untethered to conventional Washington wisdom = great.

Electing a trashy, petulant, impulsive, insecure, ill-equipped child that has a hyper-dysfunctional relationship with the truth and calling that guy a contrarian = extraordinarily damaging to our country.

---

We have also been subject to the same things by the media for the most part...and everyone is just suppose to accept it.

---

"The media" is thousands of reporters, writers, editors, etc. All make honest mistakes from time to time. Some have political agendas. Essentially none of them bold-faced lie multiple times on a daily basis the way Trump does.

But regardless, we don't elect the media. Around half the country chose to put a compulsive liar in the President's chair.

We should all agree that his treating the truth as an inconvenience that can just be edited to suit him has been terrible damaging for our country.

---

You are saying that with a straight face tells me a lot about you! Evasive truths are as bad as any so-called lie. They are manipulating and make people think they are true.

Latest example: There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong. A flat out lie!!!!!

---

Deflect all you want....I don't disagree about Hunter Biden at all, but that doesn't change the fact that Trump lies as easily as he breathes.

You can just go to any month during his Presidency, take any 10 tweets and most of them will likely be lies.

We overlooked them because of 2 reasons:
1. The economy was going well and that's what most people care about.
2. It made the media go nuts and many of us still enjoyed their gnashing of teeth

But now it's different: He's lost. It was fair...as fair as any other election. There was nothing unprecedented about this one, other than voter turnout. He lost. He hasn't accepted it like a man. He's now lashing out right and left and absolutely poisoning the atmosphere in the country. He's ruining all the good he did.
And folks like you are basically jumping in front of a bullet for him, with zero regard for the facts.

It's very sad to see.

---

If the President is such a bald-faced lier, please take his tweets, starting today, and lets analyze them...

here's two this morning:

Dude is FOS as a Christmas turkey!!! Donald John Trump invented the SWAMP!

---

---

That is just a STUPID response...

---

Looks like to me he is saying those disputed tweets are crap. I agree. Where is Trump's proof. He has none.
But yet you believe him?

Rich sure does like responding to me. Again, because he has been a hack, I chose to ignore him.


I see he responds but I don't see what he says... Rich, see the quote at the bottom.

Ahh poor little monarch don't know what I am saying. Pretends he does not care. Bless his heart.

Classic!!!

acslater1344 said:

---

Is it really a big surprise that Trump and his flunky followers have zero grace in defeat? Of course not!

It's like a football team that loses 38-17 and *****es about the refs being the only reason they lost. Shut the **** up, line up and shake hands like an adult.

---

You realize that we do this about both basketball and football on this board constantly right?

cowboypack02 said:

---

acslater1344 said:

---

Is it really a big surprise that Trump and his flunky followers have zero grace in defeat? Of course not!

It's like a football team that loses 38-17 and *****es about the refs being the only reason they lost. Shut the **** up, line up and shake hands like an adult.

---

You realize that we do this about both basketball and football on this board constantly right?

---

No, he doesn't..

Pacfanweb said:

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pineknollshoresking said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

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SupplyChainPack said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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pineknollshoresking said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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pineknollshoresking said:

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BTW, I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary. I did not like Trumps antics (funny, huh). As he became President and when I saw the all out war against him, I started to support him more.

I have said this before: This country needed and continues to need a mouthpiece that's as bold as his (like it or not). I believe we are so misled by the media, the establishment GOP, the Democrats that no one would have been able to navigate though it...

Through it all, look at the positive accomplishments that have happened.

---

See, I don't even disagree with that. He was kind of a breath of fresh air compared to most politicians.

But it's worn thin, and he hasn't learned anything. He simply lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him.

Literally, if he claimed the sun rises in the west and someone corrected him, he'd fire them or tweet about how stupid they were.

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Basically, as with anybody in your life... you take the good with the bad. I fight in my support as I believe the good outweighs the bad!!!!

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That's fair enough, I have no problem with that at all. I was okay with it until the results of the election came in. There's nothing to fight with this. This has gone way over the line.
The people have spoken and he is trying to go against the will of the people. That's the line that you simply cannot cross.

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But that's simply false. There was massive and obvious voter fraud for Biden.

Every one knows this - it's simply a matter of who is honest about it and who isn't.

---

Once again, if that was the case, why did Trump not present evidence of that in the courts? You keep saying it's so obvious, yet every single example anybody has ever put up has been debunked and proven to be BS. Continuing to claim there was fraud with zero evidence, does not make it so.

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Pacfan, do you really believe all these people that have come forward with some issue is just flat out lying? Trump is not calling these people to lie... or, do you believe he did? You did say he is lying seven out of ten times he post...

Whether the evidence is presented in court, or not, for whatever reason (including the court not having hearings), that still doesn't make these people a lier.

I think you have to delineate your thoughts:

• People making accusations and writing them down in affidavits - are they lying?
• The court proceedings moving forward and ruling how they do - It is what it is...

I think it is very misguided to think all these people are just lying about this. That would be the most massive fraud w
e've ever seen. Are you really saying that?

---

Some of them are lying, yes. Some of them are just wrong. Either way, what they are saying is almost 100% not true. I will leave out a small little bit of a % of them that could possibly be right, but there's no evidence at all that there was any massive fraud. I'm sure there's always a little bit here and there, but there was no more in this election than there was in any other, and it did not affect the outcome.

All of it has proven to be either hearsay with no way to back it up, outright wrong, or just someone saying they believe this or that happened. A lot of them, actually. Someone signing an affidavit that says they believe there was fraud is nothing. That has literally been what some of them said.
Of the ones who actually claimed they saw something, I am unaware of any of them that have not been debunked as either wrong or at least inaccurate... Whether it was by choice or they just didn't know.

Regardless, there has been no evidence presented to a court anywhere that was legit. It's all either been hearsay or speculation, or lawsuits that were basically unlawful and got dismissed.

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pacfan, you continue to amaze me how you know what's in the heart and mind of other people. The absolutism you have should be used for something better than you currently do. Whatever job you have, I am confident you can use your powers for something better.