Election Interference/Fraud

275,989 Views | 3695 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by BBW12OG
caryking
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

I do not display any narcissist traits. However I believe you have self image issue by your attacks on me.
Yes older and much more wise evidently.
Narcissism is never self evident. Attacks on you... again narcissism! Older, well, you just haven't grown out of your ignorance...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
BBW12OG
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ciscopack said:

dogplasma said:

Recall that Trump also cried fraud after the 2016 election because he lost the popular vote. His own commission found no evidence there, either. So there's a well-established pattern of behavior that, in ACC basketball, would get Trump three quick touch fouls based on "tendencies".
It's good for everyone to have a mom and dad when growing up but sometimes it just does not help. Poor Donald; his niece will tell anyone that wants to listen.
You have issues comrade....go ahead and continue with your TDS...enjoy the next two years of controlling the House... after that it's a long damn time before the dumbocrats will ever see the White House again.
dogplasma
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cowboypack02 said:

dogplasma said:

Recall that Trump also cried fraud after the 2016 election because he lost the popular vote. His own commission found no evidence there, either. So there's a well-established pattern of behavior that, in ACC basketball, would get Trump three quick touch fouls based on "tendencies".
I'm pretty sure with enough time and the willingness to put forth the effort to do it I can find a comment from everyone here about the refs and tendencies in the basketball thread.
Well, I'm sure you could, but I'm not sure why you would? That was just a tendencies joke, and not a very good one I guess. But search away!
Dmax95
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https://www.zerohedge.com/political/missouri-joins-texas-taking-election-fight-supreme-court

More states joining the fight
Wolfpackrich1
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Cary Monarch you have not grown out of your self image problems. Poor Monarch can not control anything anymore. He throws insults when people do not believe his fake news and noise. Bless his heart!
Dmax95
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

Cary Monarch you have not grown out of your self image problems. Poor Monarch can not control anything anymore. He throws insults when people do not believe his fake news and noise. Bless his heart!
Don't be a troll, cmon man. Be above it.
caryking
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

Cary Monarch you have not grown out of your self image problems. Poor Monarch can not control anything anymore. He throws insults when people do not believe his fake news and noise. Bless his heart!
Sure I can... You're beneath me and you're gone...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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Dmax95 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

Cary Monarch you have not grown out of your self image problems. Poor Monarch can not control anything anymore. He throws insults when people do not believe his fake news and noise. Bless his heart!
Don't be a troll, cmon man. Be above it.
Dmax, Thanks for supporting me. He is on ignore now. I've tried to have constructive conversation; however, he is, as you say, a troll.

Earlier on, I used him as a test case. Ultimately, I called out what I was doing and apologized; however, it appears he doesn't know how to deal with people who want to be upfront. So, whatever... he's gone!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Dmax95
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Piers morgan using his brain
ncsualum05
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Dmax95 said:



Piers morgan using his brain
It's clear that we had major election interference before and leading up to election day as well as interference/ fraud on election day and after election day.

This is a crisis on so many levels. Who's got the courage to do what's right and try to fix this?
Dmax95
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ncsualum05 said:

Dmax95 said:



Piers morgan using his brain
It's clear that we had major election interference before and leading up to election day as well as interference/ fraud on election day and after election day.

This is a crisis on so many levels. Who's got the courage to do what's right and try to fix this?
I totally agree. Partisanship needs to be put aside or we're all in trouble
PackBacker07
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Why do states have a right to tell other states how to run their elections? This suit doesn't make sense to me. Do Republicans no longer believe in states rights?
Y'all means ALL.
Dmax95
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They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.
IseWolf22
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Civilized said:

IseWolf22 said:

Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.

You're right, the election is over. Biden won.

However, I do think big tech is on a slippery slope with the way their moderation decisions are trending. Enforcement hasn't been applied evenly and has been largely reactionary to public outcry by certain parts of the media.
That said, they are a private company and have the absolute right to moderate their platform as they see fit. People upset with big tech's decisions should migrate to their smaller competitors

Big tech moderation is a potential problem.

Disinformation campaigns, both foreign and domestic, and countless baseless claims of fraud and election rigging, including by our very own president, on social media is an actual problem.

Public distrust of mainstream media sources that typically attempt to adhere to some semblance of journalistic standards is an actual problem.

Big tech is between a rock and a hard place on this, if not from a legal standpoint then certainly from an ethical one.

On one hand, if they simply serve as a basically unmoderated information conduit, they become the means by which rando weirdos disseminate lies to tens or hundreds of millions that erode public trust and potentially harm our democracy and public health.

Millions or tens of millions of Americans now believe the election was fraudulent because those lies have gotten repeated over and over by our sitting president and others on social media. There is no legitimate evidence of mass fraud, but the volume of social media posts about it normalize and validate the claims.

OTOH, If they try to censor baseless claims that have clear potential to harm, they are accused of monopolizing and controlling the public narrative.

What can they do? What should they do?




It's a complex issue without easy answers for sure. They are between a rock and a hard place as Republicans and Democrats both attack section 230, but with completely different changes in mind. There likely isn't a perfect solution that pleases everyone.

IMO, their moderation should be relatively lax, with a bipartisan panel setting up clear, unambiguous rules. Moderation decisions inherently have human bias, and big tech should do whatever they can to provide transparency into what they are doing and why. The fact that most of the people leading the moderation teams at these companies, are former Democratic congressional or campaign staffers, does not breed trust overall.

IMO, when it comes to deliberate disinformation, there is no perfect solution. Blocking content can actually amplify the story because many people inherently do not trust a higher authority telling them that information is dangerous. There is always going to be a contingent of people who want to discuss or believe something solely because it's taboo or restricted.

I'm Ok with warnings and links to relatively unbiased sources, while not actually blocking the content from being displayed. Even then, it should be restricted to factual, not opinion reporting showing why this is wrong. Mainstream media is partially to blame for the state of today's fractured information ecosystem, but this will dovetail into an entire other conversation.
IseWolf22
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Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
Dmax95
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I think the state votes will be invalidated and the electors for each state will decide such. We shall see.

Either way, I don't think the elections will ever be the same. That's what I'm hoping for.
caryking
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IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
cowboypack02
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caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
caryking
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cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
I could be wrong; but, don't States delegate powers to agency's. I am assuming this is done via law. Regulations are created, typically, without being codified; however, they have significant impact on our daily lives.

BTW, I believe these types of actions are, lazy at best, by legislatures...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
cowboypack02
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caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
I could be wrong; but, don't States delegate powers to agency's. I am assuming this is done via law. Regulations are created, typically, without being codified; however, they have significant impact on our daily lives.

BTW, I believe these types of actions are, lazy at best, by legislatures...
I agree with you. Unfortunately on a federal level I think that between the congress delegating some of its powers to the executive branch and the judicial branch taking power from the congress we have a heck of a mess.

The founding fathers of this country were absolute geniuses when they originally designed our form of government. Someone once said that we have republic...if we can keep it. I do believe that we are creeping so far away from the initial design of the country that we can't come back.

Its unfortunate.
caryking
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All, you really need to take the tie and watch the video in this link...

https://populist.press/election-supervisor-watch-dominion-flip-delete-add-votes-count-the-same-ballots-multiple-times-and-count-blank-ballots/
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
I could be wrong; but, don't States delegate powers to agency's. I am assuming this is done via law. Regulations are created, typically, without being codified; however, they have significant impact on our daily lives.

BTW, I believe these types of actions are, lazy at best, by legislatures...
I agree with you. Unfortunately on a federal level I think that between the congress delegating some of its powers to the executive branch and the judicial branch taking power from the congress we have a heck of a mess.

The founding fathers of this country were absolute geniuses when they originally designed our form of government. Someone once said that we have republic...if we can keep it. I do believe that we are creeping so far away from the initial design of the country that we can't come back.

Its unfortunate.
Yes! It's unfortunate...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Cthepack
How long do you want to ignore this user?
caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
I could be wrong; but, don't States delegate powers to agency's. I am assuming this is done via law. Regulations are created, typically, without being codified; however, they have significant impact on our daily lives.

BTW, I believe these types of actions are, lazy at best, by legislatures...
I agree with you. Unfortunately on a federal level I think that between the congress delegating some of its powers to the executive branch and the judicial branch taking power from the congress we have a heck of a mess.

The founding fathers of this country were absolute geniuses when they originally designed our form of government. Someone once said that we have republic...if we can keep it. I do believe that we are creeping so far away from the initial design of the country that we can't come back.

Its unfortunate.
Yes! It's unfortunate...
Agree. Not sure good or bad? What I hate is that it is all about winning (Rep and Dem) and less about serving the people!
caryking
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Cthepack said:

caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

cowboypack02 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...
I don't know if the states can delegate or not, but at least in one instance (PA) the legislature specifically decided to not change election laws as the governor requested. The state was sued for the same changes that the legislature didn't vote on and then the PA court decided to implement those changes anyway.

You can't argue that a state has delegated its responsibility when it quite literally decided to not codify a law but the court changes the law anyway

edit - Its worth mentioning that the same thing happened in NC and the only reason that we aren't listed on the lawsuit is because Trump won the state. If the SC holds up the suit then NC is going to end up in court shortly as well
I could be wrong; but, don't States delegate powers to agency's. I am assuming this is done via law. Regulations are created, typically, without being codified; however, they have significant impact on our daily lives.

BTW, I believe these types of actions are, lazy at best, by legislatures...
I agree with you. Unfortunately on a federal level I think that between the congress delegating some of its powers to the executive branch and the judicial branch taking power from the congress we have a heck of a mess.

The founding fathers of this country were absolute geniuses when they originally designed our form of government. Someone once said that we have republic...if we can keep it. I do believe that we are creeping so far away from the initial design of the country that we can't come back.

Its unfortunate.
Yes! It's unfortunate...
Agree. Not sure good or bad? What I hate is that it is all about winning (Rep and Dom) and less about serving the people!
I think winning is missing the real issue. It's all about money!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
PackBacker07
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Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.


I'm not sure this answers my question. The Texas AG may feel Pennsylvania (for example) changed election law without the legislature, as you state, but how can Texas sue Pennsylvania for doing this? Texas doesn't have oversight of Pennsylvania. Isn't that the crux of the suit - these state AGs don't believe other states followed their own laws? I'm not seeing how this makes sense. This seems anti-federalist IMO.

I also think flawed logic is being applied when people hold this up as another Florida 2000 example. I'm not sure 2020 is remotely close to that case.
Y'all means ALL.
PackBacker07
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If this happened in states Trump won, why aren't those processes also being thrown to SCOTUS? Simply political reasons? We only care about the law if it breaks for Trump in this particular instance?
Y'all means ALL.
Cthepack
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PackBacker07 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.


I'm not sure this answers my question. The Texas AG may feel Pennsylvania (for example) changed election law without the legislature, as you state, but how can Texas sue Pennsylvania for doing this? Texas doesn't have oversight of Pennsylvania. Isn't that the crux of the suit - these state AGs don't believe other states followed their own laws? I'm not seeing how this makes sense. This seems anti-federalist IMO.

I also think flawed logic is being applied when people hold this up as another Florida 2000 example. I'm not sure 2020 is remotely close to that case.
Not sure it will go far. However, you do not have jurisdiction over me but if I feel that you did something that impacted me I can sue you. Texas is saying that what the 4 states did impacted Texas so they are suing. Again not sure it will go far.
IseWolf22
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caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...

The SC has previously interpreted "legislature" in the elections clause very loosley. They've allowed things like independent redistricting commissions and referendums passed by voters. The lawsuit will first need to convince the SC that the changes in each state were invalid and the rule wasn't passed by the more nebulous definition of "legislature".
Then they would need to prove that in absense of the rule, Trump likely could win. Without the 2nd piece the SC is within their power to overturn specific laws/statutes that they find invalid without overturning the overall election results.
cowboypack02
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PackBacker07 said:

If this happened in states Trump won, why aren't those processes also being thrown to SCOTUS? Simply political reasons? We only care about the law if it breaks for Trump in this particular instance?
I think that NC should been of included in the lawsuit by Texas quite honestly.

To answer your question most people only care about law breaking if its at their determent. No one cares unless it hurts them
cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...

The SC has previously interpreted "legislature" in the elections clause very loosley. They've allowed things like independent redistricting commissions and referendums passed by voters. The lawsuit will first need to convince the SC that the changes in each state were invalid and the rule wasn't passed by the more nebulous definition of "legislature".
Then they would need to prove that in absense of the rule, Trump likely could win. Without the 2nd piece the SC is within their power to overturn specific laws/statutes that they find invalid without overturning the overall election results.
Your right here. So my question is who voted on these changes? No one got a vote. In fact in PA the legislature decided to not vote on the exact changes that the court enacted.

I agree that if voters pass something then it should respected. But no one got to vote here...
IseWolf22
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cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...

The SC has previously interpreted "legislature" in the elections clause very loosley. They've allowed things like independent redistricting commissions and referendums passed by voters. The lawsuit will first need to convince the SC that the changes in each state were invalid and the rule wasn't passed by the more nebulous definition of "legislature".
Then they would need to prove that in absense of the rule, Trump likely could win. Without the 2nd piece the SC is within their power to overturn specific laws/statutes that they find invalid without overturning the overall election results.
Your right here. So my question is who voted on these changes? No one got a vote. In fact in PA the legislature decided to not vote on the exact changes that the court enacted.

I agree that if voters pass something then it should respected. But no one got to vote here...

Well the original act was passed by the legislature. I think you're referring to the court case around if ballots should arrive by 8 PM on election day vs be postmarked by 8 PM on election day.
Without pulling up the specific text of Act 77 on my phone, yes the USSC may rule that the law's intent was for ballots to arrive by election day.
But that's only about 10,000 ballots, not nearly enough to overturn PA. So the PA court decision may be overturned without any impact to the election. It is possible other down ballot races could be affected
cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Dmax95 said:

They don't have the right to change election laws without approvals from state legislature votes. A lot of these rule changes were pushed through and approved by the local courts not legislatures. Left and Right made some mistakes. They also don't have precedent over the Constitution as well to do such(Florida 2000). This is a layup lawsuit if SCOTUS follows the precedent.

If you're reading mainstream media outlets don't be surprised if this blindsides people. Like the Hunter Biden crap. There's been evidence and issues since the start that should be resolved like the election issues. It's amazing how much the mainstream narrative is to cover up the election issues. They're going to act like SCOTUS stole the election if the Texas lawsuit wins.

It's very clear why say a state like Pennsylvania is trying to shoot down the suits in court. Both sides messed up with the mail in ballot issues. Hence why it was petitioned to the supreme court asap. Avg person has no clue what's going on.


The statute is not absolute that the legislature must vote on every minutia of election law. The SC has allowed in the past that the power can be delegated (ex. Redistricting commissions, ballot referendums).

There is also the scale of remediation. Even if the SC finds an added rule was invalid, they may strike the rule while upholding the election results. Plaintiffs will need to prove the specific rule in question for each state would have resulted in significant enough shifts in voting to change the outcome.
I don't think you'll be getting the results you hope for.
IsleWolf, help me understand...

A state can delegate its legal powers to an agency (BTW, the federal government has done this as well); however, can they do this when it appears that it's in violations with the constitution?

Also, you referred to a statute.. Is that what is being argued. I was understanding that the states are arguing the constitutional nature of the actions by the states in question...

The SC has previously interpreted "legislature" in the elections clause very loosley. They've allowed things like independent redistricting commissions and referendums passed by voters. The lawsuit will first need to convince the SC that the changes in each state were invalid and the rule wasn't passed by the more nebulous definition of "legislature".
Then they would need to prove that in absense of the rule, Trump likely could win. Without the 2nd piece the SC is within their power to overturn specific laws/statutes that they find invalid without overturning the overall election results.
Your right here. So my question is who voted on these changes? No one got a vote. In fact in PA the legislature decided to not vote on the exact changes that the court enacted.

I agree that if voters pass something then it should respected. But no one got to vote here...

Well the original act was passed by the legislature. I think you're referring to the court case around if ballots should arrive by 8 PM on election day vs be postmarked by 8 PM on election day.
Without pulling up the specific text of Act 77 on my phone, yes the USSC may rule that the law's intent was for ballots to arrive by election day.
But that's only about 10,000 ballots, not nearly enough to overturn PA. So the PA court decision may be overturned without any impact to the election. It is possible other down ballot races could be affected
If this is the case...is it your argument that we should just ignore it because it may not overturn the election?
BBW12OG
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Of course it is... they want it certified and voted on before all the law breaking can be exposed. Just like keeping the vaccine approval quiet, holding up Covid relief and most of all, the Biden crime family taxes and Sleepy Joe being the "bid guy" before the election. Exactly what the dumbocrats accuse Republicans of they have already been doing it for years. The laws of accepting ballots past Election Day including mail ins is what is being contested. And if they are tossed it's MORE than enough to overturn the sham of an election. That's why the lefties are screaming so loudly. If Sleepy Joe and Willie's Side Piece are legit then why not let it play out in courth, audit all the ballots and verify signatures and registrations in the contested areas? If there's nothing to hide then show the votes.
DrummerboyWolf
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PackBacker07 said:

dogplasma said:

I think adjudication is used for things like ballots that are physically damaged and don't feed into the machines correctly, provisional ballots where they have to verify someone's eligibility to vote, or maybe write-in votes (not sure about that one). I don't think it implies that there are tons of ballots where the little circles aren't filled in correctly, although that might happen in some cases. And it's normally done by a committee of people representing both parties so you don't get into questions of bias. But I'm no voting expert - that's just what I've seen explained in the past.


This is correct. They don't arbitrarily select choices for voters.
Oh but they can select choices for voters. Just watch these two videos from Coffee County, Georgia, done my members of the election board there. This is just a demonstration of what can be done on the Dominion machines, but if you don't think it was done a lot during the adjudication process in Georgia, then I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you.

Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
ncsualum05
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cowboypack02 said:

PackBacker07 said:

If this happened in states Trump won, why aren't those processes also being thrown to SCOTUS? Simply political reasons? We only care about the law if it breaks for Trump in this particular instance?
I think that NC should been of included in the lawsuit by Texas quite honestly.

To answer your question most people only care about law breaking if its at their determent. No one cares unless it hurts them
Agree. NC had no election security and a bad process as well. Should be looked into. Does anyone know if NC actually uses those dominion machines? I haven't heard one way or another.
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