Election Interference/Fraud

275,706 Views | 3695 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by BBW12OG
caryking
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Cthepack said:

caryking said:

Cthepack said:

caryking said:

ciscopack said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

Tariffs paid by American consumers. Great job Mr. Trump.

Again your children and theirs will pay for climate change. Just look around fella.
He's a dumb ass and can't help it; momma and daddy dropped the ball. 6 time bankrupt.

American businesses and consumers, not China, are bearing the financial brunt of President Trump's trade war, new data shows, undermining the president's assertion that the United States is "taxing the hell out of China."

"U.S. tariffs continue to be almost entirely borne by U.S. firms and consumers," Mary Amiti, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, wrote in a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper. The other authors of the paper were David E. Weinstein of Columbia University and Stephen J. Redding of Princeton.

Many of the products that the United States sells to China are undifferentiated commodities, like agricultural goods, but China sends many specialized consumer goods like silk embroidery, laptops and smartphones to the United States. China can easily swap Brazilian soybeans for American ones, but the types of goods that China sends to the United States are harder for American businesses to substitute.

While Trump's tariffs may have brought some countries to the negotiating table, in the long run the tariffs likely also contributed to pushing other potential trade partners away. When negotiating trade agreements, countries want partners whose policies are stable and predictable, with the goal of establishing a long-term, win-win partnership. Trump's eagerness to resort to tariffs, including in relations with close allies, has made the U.S. a less desirable trade partner for other countries.

The national security case for tariffs on steel and aluminum is even murkier: while there may be a case for ensuring domestic production capacity for these commodities, it isn't clear tariffs are the best instrument (or that they even achieve this goal). These tariffs antagonized many of America's closest security partners, particularly Canada, which undermined efforts to cultivate a broader multilateral alliance to challenge China. Moreover, the Trump administration's frequent recourses to national security on flimsy grounds will make it more difficult for the U.S. to push back when other countries cloak protectionism in tenuous appeals to national security.



All of that is political speech.. (Edit) All of that is BS from some swamp person writing a paper.

Does anybody here work with international trade?

I do! The tariffs are doing exactly what they were intended to do. Companies are looking for alternative sources around the world. The fashion industry has been moving away from China as fast as they can, excluding fast fashion.

So, have you truly seen an increase in the price of goods? I haven't! Prices are set by the market. If the cost goes up, then margins are compressed. What are companies doing? They are finding alternative supply chains away from China.

The big threat the country has is this move will take a long time. So many raw materials are still made in China. The complete supply chain is not supportable in this hemisphere. If we pull back on the tariffs, this will stop the transition.

1) no appreciable increase in prices - go ahead and quote stats to dispute this. Just look at your pocketbook
2) stock market continues to go up - everyone's retirement, if invested, has seen a nice boost
3) gas prices have come down

The net affect is more cash in ones pocket
Very easy to spot the ones that do not work internationally and with international trade.


Meaning?
Agreeing with you.


Thank You!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
IseWolf22
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cowboypack02 said:

How does this make any sense at all?



He clearly means that 113k ballots needed to be adjudicated and 106k of that 113k have completed the process.
He's not saying 94% of ballots needed adjudication. There were approximately 525,000 votes in the county. So the percentage of ballots needing adjudication is closer to 21%. You're welcome to look up how that compares to previous years.
cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

How does this make any sense at all?



He clearly means that 113k ballots needed to be adjudicated and 106k of that 113k have completed the process.
He's not saying 94% of ballots needed adjudication. There were approximately 525,000 votes in the county. So the percentage of ballots needing adjudication is closer to 21%. You're welcome to look up how that compares to previous years.
My question is why are they adjudicating ballots at all?

What right does a group of people have to determine the intent of a voter? Couldn't they make the determination that every ballot needs to be adjudicated and then act accordingly?

If it isn't clear who the ballot is for then maybe we should find another way besides someone getting to arbitrarily decide who its for
dogplasma
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I think adjudication is used for things like ballots that are physically damaged and don't feed into the machines correctly, provisional ballots where they have to verify someone's eligibility to vote, or maybe write-in votes (not sure about that one). I don't think it implies that there are tons of ballots where the little circles aren't filled in correctly, although that might happen in some cases. And it's normally done by a committee of people representing both parties so you don't get into questions of bias. But I'm no voting expert - that's just what I've seen explained in the past.
caryking
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Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Pacfanweb
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caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Easy to explain:
And I say this somewhat seriously, because if you have any kids in schools and see what "average" is for testing....wow. It's really, really dumb.



And

BBW12OG
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caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Just more "right wing media nonsense.." Ask the socialists here. They'll tell you Biden is a moderate that wants nothing to do with China and is not going to enable Bernie, Pocahontas and the Squad's plans, the DNC run media is unbiased and honest. Trump is a big ol' orange meany that hates puppies and kisses Putin's ring every chance he gets. Don't look at all the democrat leaders that have flaunted their power in the faces of the people they are suppressing by dining out, taking trips and getting their hair done. It's all just so they can be more productive leaders for the masses. You know, kinda of like "All Animals Are Equal, Some Are Just More Equal Than Others.." type deal. The lefties who support the clowns in Washington really show their true character when they support crap like that. And to those who hate President Trump so bad as to support the lefties, you are worse than they are. Claiming to be "conservative" all the while supporting socialists to take his place. Definition of stupidity.
PackBacker07
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dogplasma said:

I think adjudication is used for things like ballots that are physically damaged and don't feed into the machines correctly, provisional ballots where they have to verify someone's eligibility to vote, or maybe write-in votes (not sure about that one). I don't think it implies that there are tons of ballots where the little circles aren't filled in correctly, although that might happen in some cases. And it's normally done by a committee of people representing both parties so you don't get into questions of bias. But I'm no voting expert - that's just what I've seen explained in the past.


This is correct. They don't arbitrarily select choices for voters.
Y'all means ALL.
IseWolf22
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Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Easy to explain:
And I say this somewhat seriously, because if you have any kids in schools and see what "average" is for testing....wow. It's really, really dumb.



And


I've always loved that first quote
dogplasma
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If there's real substance to any major voter irregularity claims, you'd think (or I would think) it would have gained traction in a judicial or law enforcement process somewhere by now. As an average joe citizen not spending time trying to connect a bunch of internet dots, that's my threshold for validity: An arrest or a lawsuit of consequence that actually sticks. So far as I know, there's been nothing like that, although I would never say it could never happen.

Actually, you know what definition seems to apply to Trump's "search" for corruption so far...? Witch hunt! I'd say that's ironic but, seeing how POTUS operates, I don't think it actually is.
IseWolf22
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dogplasma said:

I think adjudication is used for things like ballots that are physically damaged and don't feed into the machines correctly, provisional ballots where they have to verify someone's eligibility to vote, or maybe write-in votes (not sure about that one). I don't think it implies that there are tons of ballots where the little circles aren't filled in correctly, although that might happen in some cases. And it's normally done by a committee of people representing both parties so you don't get into questions of bias. But I'm no voting expert - that's just what I've seen explained in the past.
This is right.

Also, not all of these are flagged because of the presidential vote. An issue on a single down ballot race or referendum will send the whole ballot to adjudication.
If the bipartisan, 3 member panel can't determine the proper vote for that one issue, it won't be counted. But the ballot is still valid for the other races where the ballot was clear.
ciscopack
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You boys ever find this FRAUD??? .... just wondering if anyone knew if the people in Iowa were cheating or the machines were bad or if they did not allow 1000 people in each caucus to make sure things were done right.....did Cruz pay someone off...

'He stole it': Trump blasts Cruz for 'fraud' in Iowa

Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud,' calls for new Iowa election

Trump's Tweet About Ted Cruz Committing 'Fraud' During 2016 Iowa Caucuses

When Donald Trump lost the Iowa caucus to Ted Cruz in 2016, "he immediately cried that Cruz cheated."

12 Republicans were still in the race at that time

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of fraud in Iowa caucuses, calls for results to be invalidated

Donald Trump claims Ted Cruz 'stole' Iowa caucuses and calls for new election

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of "total voter fraud" in Iowa

Donald Trump wants Iowa rematch, accusing Cruz of 'fraud'

Trump accuses Cruz of stealing Iowa caucuses

Donald Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud' and seeks Iowa rerun


ciscopack
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IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Easy to explain:
And I say this somewhat seriously, because if you have any kids in schools and see what "average" is for testing....wow. It's really, really dumb.



And


I've always loved that first quote
I like the 2nd one
caryking
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Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Easy to explain:
And I say this somewhat seriously, because if you have any kids in schools and see what "average" is for testing....wow. It's really, really dumb.



And




And those two George Carlin quotes describe a Democrat perfectly. Stupid as Hell!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
BBW12OG
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ciscopack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
Easy to explain:
And I say this somewhat seriously, because if you have any kids in schools and see what "average" is for testing....wow. It's really, really dumb.



And


I've always loved that first quote
I like the 2nd one
Ironic that you find the last one your favorite all things considered..... baaaaaaa.....baaaaaaa.....baaaaaaa!!!
caryking
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ciscopack said:

You boys ever find this FRAUD??? .... just wondering if anyone knew if the people in Iowa were cheating or the machines were bad or if they did not allow 1000 people in each caucus to make sure things were done right.....did Cruz pay someone off...

'He stole it': Trump blasts Cruz for 'fraud' in Iowa

Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud,' calls for new Iowa election

Trump's Tweet About Ted Cruz Committing 'Fraud' During 2016 Iowa Caucuses

When Donald Trump lost the Iowa caucus to Ted Cruz in 2016, "he immediately cried that Cruz cheated."

12 Republicans were still in the race at that time

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of fraud in Iowa caucuses, calls for results to be invalidated

Donald Trump claims Ted Cruz 'stole' Iowa caucuses and calls for new election

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of "total voter fraud" in Iowa

Donald Trump wants Iowa rematch, accusing Cruz of 'fraud'

Trump accuses Cruz of stealing Iowa caucuses

Donald Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud' and seeks Iowa rerun





Yes we did! Now, you need to go prove it's even true. Show us the evidence!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Wolfpackrich1
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caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
CaryMonarch don't you mean "Poll Results"?

Then my next question is when did you start believing in polls?
caryking
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

caryking said:

Pole results:

Fair Election: 53%
Not Fair Election: 47%

That's a lot of conspiracy theorist in the country. Think about it, that is almost half the population thinking we have a problem. No MSM coverage! How could that happen?
CaryMonarch don't you mean "Poll Results"?

Then my next question is when did you start believing in polls?
Correct, you millennial (narcissist). Just a quick typing error...

Then my next question is when did you start believing in polls? I never said I did, do you? Rather, than your typical deflections (narcissist), provide some feedback... That is, if you have the mental capacity...



BTW, moderators... I'm only making it personal to this hack because he continues to take stabs at me...

pineknollshoresking or caryking
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Wolfpackrich1
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You have been making things personal with me since you called me racist. In you words to prove a point that anybody can say anything about someone.

Now I am no millennial. I would be a boomer. You were not correct on that I am a racist , millennial or narcissist.

caryking
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

You have been making things personal with me since you called me racist. In you words to prove a point that anybody can say anything about someone.

Now I am no millennial. I would be a boomer. You were not correct on that I am a racist , millennial or narcissist.


Yep, and it was warranted You may be a boomer; however, you exhibit SIGNIFICANT narcissist traits... That's why I thought you are a millennial...

So, a boomer, huh? that would make you older than me. Never would have guessed based on your responses, and the lack of responding to my POLE (poll)...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
ciscopack
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caryking said:

ciscopack said:

You boys ever find this FRAUD??? .... just wondering if anyone knew if the people in Iowa were cheating or the machines were bad or if they did not allow 1000 people in each caucus to make sure things were done right.....did Cruz pay someone off...

'He stole it': Trump blasts Cruz for 'fraud' in Iowa

Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud,' calls for new Iowa election

Trump's Tweet About Ted Cruz Committing 'Fraud' During 2016 Iowa Caucuses

When Donald Trump lost the Iowa caucus to Ted Cruz in 2016, "he immediately cried that Cruz cheated."

12 Republicans were still in the race at that time

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of fraud in Iowa caucuses, calls for results to be invalidated

Donald Trump claims Ted Cruz 'stole' Iowa caucuses and calls for new election

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of "total voter fraud" in Iowa

Donald Trump wants Iowa rematch, accusing Cruz of 'fraud'

Trump accuses Cruz of stealing Iowa caucuses

Donald Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud' and seeks Iowa rerun





Yes we did! Now, you need to go prove it's even true. Show us the evidence!
The people in Iowa are crooked as hell or what?
caryking
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ciscopack said:

caryking said:

ciscopack said:

You boys ever find this FRAUD??? .... just wondering if anyone knew if the people in Iowa were cheating or the machines were bad or if they did not allow 1000 people in each caucus to make sure things were done right.....did Cruz pay someone off...

'He stole it': Trump blasts Cruz for 'fraud' in Iowa

Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud,' calls for new Iowa election

Trump's Tweet About Ted Cruz Committing 'Fraud' During 2016 Iowa Caucuses

When Donald Trump lost the Iowa caucus to Ted Cruz in 2016, "he immediately cried that Cruz cheated."

12 Republicans were still in the race at that time

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of fraud in Iowa caucuses, calls for results to be invalidated

Donald Trump claims Ted Cruz 'stole' Iowa caucuses and calls for new election

Donald Trump accuses Ted Cruz of "total voter fraud" in Iowa

Donald Trump wants Iowa rematch, accusing Cruz of 'fraud'

Trump accuses Cruz of stealing Iowa caucuses

Donald Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud' and seeks Iowa rerun





Yes we did! Now, you need to go prove it's even true. Show us the evidence!
The people in Iowa are crooked as hell or what?


You tell us
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
ncsualum05
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This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.
Civilized
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ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.
ciscopack
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Either Clarence Thomas, Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, Samuel Alito, Brian Kemp, Doug Ducey and the FBI and the CIA and the entire state Republican Parties of Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, and Pennsylvania are part of a deep state conspiracy ..............or Trump lost.
IseWolf22
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Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.

You're right, the election is over. Biden won.

However, I do think big tech is on a slippery slope with the way their moderation decisions are trending. Enforcement hasn't been applied evenly and has been largely reactionary to public outcry by certain parts of the media.
That said, they are a private company and have the absolute right to moderate their platform as they see fit. People upset with big tech's decisions should migrate to their smaller competitors
caryking
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Once again, you guys deflect the point. I don't give one crap about whether you think the election is over or not. The point, above, by ncsualum05 is about censoring...

At some point, it will be about a subject that's near and dear to your heart. Go ahead and say it... it's a private company! That, I will agree with. I believe every private company should be able to conduct business how they chose.

In fact, I would like to see a restaurant that will not allow black liberals in it. One would need to bring their voting registration form when they come in. Would you be ok with that?

My example is absurd at best! Nonetheless, it should scare people with what's going on at Google and their affiliate company's...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
ncsualum05
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Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.
It is debatable. Fraud happened and it should be allowed to be discussed whether you agree or not. Shutting down a widely held opinion is bad enough but there's also ongoing cases in court. There are house legislatures having hearings and sessions over this. And youtube has decided to take new video content down regarding it? How could someone have that much power? Think real hard.... you should be against this.

Look the russian hoax went on for 3 years. It took a long time for that story to unfold. There were people making claims out there with absolutely no evidence and no proof. I thought it was a disgrace. BUT.... what if youtube decided that all videos related to the story needed to be deleted or censored?

We have different opinions..... starkly different in some cases. It's clear that some people are following stories they believe are serious while others believe it's conspiracy theories and made up. The media has created alternate universes for people. That is another issue. But we absolutely cannot shut down one side and that is exactly what this is.
ncsualum05
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IseWolf22 said:

Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.

You're right, the election is over. Biden won.

However, I do think big tech is on a slippery slope with the way their moderation decisions are trending. Enforcement hasn't been applied evenly and has been largely reactionary to public outcry by certain parts of the media.
That said, they are a private company and have the absolute right to moderate their platform as they see fit. People upset with big tech's decisions should migrate to their smaller competitors
That doesn't make things right but it does give people an option. However that even further divides our society into 2 separate sects. More so than traditional media has already done. We are quickly becoming 2 Americas. It's crazy.
dogplasma
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Recall that Trump also cried fraud after the 2016 election because he lost the popular vote. His own commission found no evidence there, either. So there's a well-established pattern of behavior that, in ACC basketball, would get Trump three quick touch fouls based on "tendencies".
Pacfanweb
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IseWolf22 said:

Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.

You're right, the election is over. Biden won.

However, I do think big tech is on a slippery slope with the way their moderation decisions are trending. Enforcement hasn't been applied evenly and has been largely reactionary to public outcry by certain parts of the media.
That said, they are a private company and have the absolute right to moderate their platform as they see fit. People upset with big tech's decisions should migrate to their smaller competitors

Agreed.
My problem with this is, where do they draw the line as to what to remove and what to leave? They're going to let all the flat-earth bogus BS stay up there, but they're going to remove incorrect claims about the election? They both have about as much credibility.
What about the anti-vax videos? Moon landing was faked? 9/11 truthers?
They going to leave all that alone?
cowboypack02
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dogplasma said:

Recall that Trump also cried fraud after the 2016 election because he lost the popular vote. His own commission found no evidence there, either. So there's a well-established pattern of behavior that, in ACC basketball, would get Trump three quick touch fouls based on "tendencies".
I'm pretty sure with enough time and the willingness to put forth the effort to do it I can find a comment from everyone here about the refs and tendencies in the basketball thread.
Civilized
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IseWolf22 said:

Civilized said:

ncsualum05 said:



This is what Youtube is apparently sending out. No matter what candidates you vote for or how you feel about policies, this right here should scare you. This is another shot from big tech saying that we deem the election to be over just like we deem what is correct about covid even though we are not doctors nor are we constitutional law experts. This is exactly how you become a communist nation like China. You want to see the death of freedom, there's a big factor right there.

The election is over. That's not debatable.

When will you believe it's over is the question.

You're right, the election is over. Biden won.

However, I do think big tech is on a slippery slope with the way their moderation decisions are trending. Enforcement hasn't been applied evenly and has been largely reactionary to public outcry by certain parts of the media.
That said, they are a private company and have the absolute right to moderate their platform as they see fit. People upset with big tech's decisions should migrate to their smaller competitors

Big tech moderation is a potential problem.

Disinformation campaigns, both foreign and domestic, and countless baseless claims of fraud and election rigging, including by our very own president, on social media is an actual problem.

Public distrust of mainstream media sources that typically attempt to adhere to some semblance of journalistic standards is an actual problem.

Big tech is between a rock and a hard place on this, if not from a legal standpoint then certainly from an ethical one.

On one hand, if they simply serve as a basically unmoderated information conduit, they become the means by which rando weirdos disseminate lies to tens or hundreds of millions that erode public trust and potentially harm our democracy and public health.

Millions or tens of millions of Americans now believe the election was fraudulent because those lies have gotten repeated over and over by our sitting president and others on social media. There is no legitimate evidence of mass fraud, but the volume of social media posts about it normalize and validate the claims.

OTOH, If they try to censor baseless claims that have clear potential to harm, they are accused of monopolizing and controlling the public narrative.

What can they do? What should they do?

Wolfpackrich1
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I do not display any narcissist traits. However I believe you have self image issue by your attacks on me.
Yes older and much more wise evidently.
ciscopack
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dogplasma said:

Recall that Trump also cried fraud after the 2016 election because he lost the popular vote. His own commission found no evidence there, either. So there's a well-established pattern of behavior that, in ACC basketball, would get Trump three quick touch fouls based on "tendencies".
It's good for everyone to have a mom and dad when growing up but sometimes it just does not help. Poor Donald; his niece will tell anyone that wants to listen.
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