lumberpack5 said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

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Packchem91 said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Heres the thing with this for me - these tapes have existed since February. And now they are coming out 8 weeks before the election, one week before Woodward's book comes out. Its the same as Feinstein sitting on the Kavanaugh letter until September when she received it in July. Its a hail mary at this point, nothing more.

There are only so many times you can cry wolf until most people are just going to roll their eyes. Im just rolling my eyes at this point

---

Its capitalism 101, no?
Granted, its shady to the extent that it is capitalism usurping journalistic integrity, but the integrity part doesn't sell tons of books and generates millions of $$ of revenue like this book will.

Like others though...it amazes me that the POTUS would give these sound bytes to Woodward on tape. Maybe the scariest thing about Trump is, he has no filter, and he seems to not have one ounce of understanding of the decorum needed for the position of the most important job in the world?

---

I actually have zero issues with what Woodward himself is doing. His goal is to sell books. This sound byte will obviously entice people to buy said book. But, if he is actually trying to change opinions on Trump, I think hes failed. For starters, he held onto this information for seven(ish) months during one of the most unprecedented times in American history only to release it in the time frame I mentioned above. On top of that, I dont think a single person that can rationally think can say that this isnt motivated by outside factors (IE book sales and the election). Thirdly, Trump's base is incredibly strong and has little opinion for COVID and its restrictions overall. The left isnt going towards Trump anyway, and I cant speak for independent views outside of myself.

Just my thoughts

---

This is the problem with worshiping humans like an infallible God. So much is invested that any evidence to the contrary has to be smothered even if it costs you your life. Trump can do no wrong in his supporters eyes, no matter how dumb or how bad.

---

The exact opposite is also true. Despise an individual like the devil and no matter how smart or how good they are people are so invested in their hate they will only see the negative. Example is Trump can do no good is always wrong in the I despise trump crowd.

Bas2020 said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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Heres the thing with this for me - these tapes have existed since February. And now they are coming out 8 weeks before the election, one week before Woodward's book comes out. Its the same as Feinstein sitting on the Kavanaugh letter until September when she received it in July. Its a hail mary at this point, nothing more.

There are only so many times you can cry wolf until most people are just going to roll their eyes. Im just rolling my eyes at this point

---

There are 3-4 more "hit piece" books coming out.


One per week basically until the election. The media will treat each one like a "bomb shell" lololololol.


Rinse. Repeat.

---

Yep. They will run every one of them with big headlines in all the MSM outlets.

You will probably hear the word, "BOMBSHELL!!!!" about very non-bombshell "news".

As on the hay days of RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA, there will be a lot of robo-libs peepeeing all over themselves as they await each new dramatic revelation.

packgrad said:

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No surprise. You were FOS about your response if Trump said to wear a mask. Just admit it, it doesn't matter what he says or does, you will go into hysterics.

---

Why would I make that up?

Also, did you just give up on the mask thing?

lumberpack5 said:

---

We have reached the end of the usefulness of this particular two party system and it's time change again as has happened in about every 40 years or so, but to stay in power both parties fight that change, leading to wack jobs taking over the parties.

The real party ID break down is something like the following:

White anger - Right wing nut party - 15% of the population
Conspiracy, racists, nativists, anti-government, anti-tax, objectivism, socially Darwinistic

Traditional Republicans - 10% of the population - Sound money, sound military, stay out someone's bedroom

Suburban American Middle Party - 30% of the population
Same as TR's but more government spending, and support of light social engineering

Traditional Democrats - 20% of the population
Unsound money, Union, Pluralistic, Slow to do anything while feelings are examined

Wack Job Dems - 15% of the population
Commies, Socialists, Hyper Inflation, High Taxes

Coalltional poltiics for America need to happen with the middle groups. Piss on the 15% on the two wings.

---

You forgot conspiracy theorist nuts:. 99% of the Dems party.

RussiaRussiaRussia was and is the mother of all conspiracy theories.

FlossyDFlynt said:

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Packchem91 said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Heres the thing with this for me - these tapes have existed since February. And now they are coming out 8 weeks before the election, one week before Woodward's book comes out. Its the same as Feinstein sitting on the Kavanaugh letter until September when she received it in July. Its a hail mary at this point, nothing more.

There are only so many times you can cry wolf until most people are just going to roll their eyes. Im just rolling my eyes at this point

---

Its capitalism 101, no?
Granted, its shady to the extent that it is capitalism usurping journalistic integrity, but the integrity part doesn't sell tons of books and generates millions of $$ of revenue like this book will.

Like others though...it amazes me that the POTUS would give these sound bytes to Woodward on tape. Maybe the scariest thing about Trump is, he has no filter, and he seems to not have one ounce of understanding of the decorum needed for the position of the most important job in the world?

---

I actually have zero issues with what Woodward himself is doing. His goal is to sell books. This sound byte will obviously entice people to buy said book. But, if he is actually trying to change opinions on Trump, I think hes failed. For starters, he held onto this information for seven(ish) months during one of the most unprecedented times in American history only to release it in the time frame I mentioned above. On top of that, I dont think a single person that can rationally think can say that this isnt motivated by outside factors (IE book sales and the election). Thirdly, Trump's base is incredibly strong and has little opinion for COVID and its restrictions overall. The left isnt going towards Trump anyway, and I cant speak for independent views outside of myself.

Just my thoughts

---

Oh I get it, and agree. Woodward will likely hit a HR here with releasing this now.
I think by now, no opinions are going to change on Trump. But there are enough that hate him, that a "look bad" book will sell like hotcakes.

Heck Trump probably went on record with the things he said thinking that by now this virus would be fully under control and saying then it was worse would look more heroic for him.

SupplyChainPack said:

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lumberpack5 said:

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We have reached the end of the usefulness of this particular two party system and it's time change again as has happened in about every 40 years or so, but to stay in power both parties fight that change, leading to wack jobs taking over the parties.

The real party ID break down is something like the following:

White anger - Right wing nut party - 15% of the population
Conspiracy, racists, nativists, anti-government, anti-tax, objectivism, socially Darwinistic

Traditional Republicans - 10% of the population - Sound money, sound military, stay out someone's bedroom

Suburban American Middle Party - 30% of the population
Same as TR's but more government spending, and support of light social engineering

Traditional Democrats - 20% of the population
Unsound money, Union, Pluralistic, Slow to do anything while feelings are examined

Wack Job Dems - 15% of the population
Commies, Socialists, Hyper Inflation, High Taxes

Coalltional poltiics for America need to happen with the middle groups. Piss on the 15% on the two wings.

---

You forgot conspiracy theorist nuts:. 99% of the Dems party.

RussiaRussiaRussia was and is the mother of all conspiracy theories.

---

" -- Woodward writes that Coats and his top staff members "examined the intelligence as carefully as possible," and that Coats still questions the relationship between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. "Coats saw how extraordinary it was for the president's top intelligence official to harbor such deep suspicions about the president's relationship with Putin. But he could not shake them."

I guess Republican Dan Coats is also a Democrat conspiracy nut?

GoPack2008 said:

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packgrad said:

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No surprise. You were FOS about your response if Trump said to wear a mask. Just admit it, it doesn't matter what he says or does, you will go into hysterics.

---

Why would I make that up?

Also, did you just give up on the mask thing?

---

Perhaps you are so deranged you can't even read your own posts. You contradicted yourself one post after your proclamation.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the mask thing. Is this something else you've made up?

GoPack2008 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

lumberpack5 said:

---

We have reached the end of the usefulness of this particular two party system and it's time change again as has happened in about every 40 years or so, but to stay in power both parties fight that change, leading to wack jobs taking over the parties.

The real party ID break down is something like the following:

White anger - Right wing nut party - 15% of the population
Conspiracy, racists, nativists, anti-government, anti-tax, objectivism, socially Darwinistic

Traditional Republicans - 10% of the population - Sound money, sound military, stay out someone's bedroom

Suburban American Middle Party - 30% of the population
Same as TR's but more government spending, and support of light social engineering

Traditional Democrats - 20% of the population
Unsound money, Union, Pluralistic, Slow to do anything while feelings are examined

Wack Job Dems - 15% of the population
Commies, Socialists, Hyper Inflation, High Taxes

Coalltional poltiics for America need to happen with the middle groups. Piss on the 15% on the two wings.

---

You forgot conspiracy theorist nuts:. 99% of the Dems party.

RussiaRussiaRussia was and is the mother of all conspiracy theories.

---

" -- Woodward writes that Coats and his top staff members "examined the intelligence as carefully as possible," and that Coats still questions the relationship between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. "Coats saw how extraordinary it was for the president's top intelligence official to harbor such deep suspicions about the president's relationship with Putin. But he could not shake them."

I guess Republican Dan Coats is also a Democrat conspiracy nut?

---

Nobody here is surprised that you still firmly believe the RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA conspiracy theory.

El presidente hits the nail on the head here.

I think there's a couple layers to that tweet:

- Woodward sucks for sitting on them as long as he did, because even if Trump thinks he was doing everything right it may have at least helped motivate Senators and other Representatives that also downplayed it to recognize that the President is saying it's very serious
- Trump obviously thinks he has done everything right, so those quotes in February or now don't really matter to him

packgrad said:

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El presidente hits the nail on the head here.

---

I haven't listened to any of it, but this was my first thought.

If what Trump said was so bad or so important, Woodward would have an obligation to put it out THEN.

He did not.

It's clear this is just another attempt to chip away at the President right before the election.

My sense of it, just glancing around the internet and the news is, people are getting wise to them.

Pacfanweb said:

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packgrad said:

---

El presidente hits the nail on the head here.

---

I haven't listened to any of it, but this was my first thought.

If what Trump said was so bad or so important, Woodward would have an obligation to put it out THEN.

He did not.

It's clear this is just another attempt to chip away at the President right before the election.

My sense of it, just glancing around the internet and the news is, people are getting wise to them.

---

Agreed. A parody account I follow, that occasionally has some spot on posts, had a spot on one yesterday. The act is getting old.

- Woodward sucks for sitting on these tapes so he could make money off of a book launch
- Trump has privately acknowledged in early February that this is more contagious and deadly than the flu, and that it's airborne
- Trump continued to publicly call COVID a hoax to the public, trying to downplay fears in an effort to prevent economic issues
- Trump's administration had no recommended national strategic plan for testing, implementing contact tracing, ensuring adequate supplies of PPE, instead leaving it to States to come up with 50 different plans and compete for resources
- These issues caused the basic shutdown of the country for at least 3 months, and led to partial and unsuccessful reopenings and closures for the next 3 months
- Thankfully they also started Operation Warpspeed and hope to see at least one effective vaccine being produced and distributed before EOY

statefan91 said:

---

- Woodward sucks for sitting on these tapes so he could make money off of a book launch
- Trump has privately acknowledged in early February that this is more contagious and deadly than the flu, and that it's airborne
- Trump continued to publicly call COVID a hoax to the public, trying to downplay fears in an effort to prevent economic issues
- Trump's administration had no recommended national strategic plan for testing, implementing contact tracing, ensuring adequate supplies of PPE, instead leaving it to States to come up with 50 different plans and compete for resources
- These issues caused the basic shutdown of the country for at least 3 months, and led to partial and unsuccessful reopenings and closures for the next 3 months
- Thankfully they also started Operation Warpspeed and hope to see at least one effective vaccine being produced and distributed before EOY

---

Wait a minute, do you mean to say that both things can be true -- the media (or Woodward, specifically here) can suck AND the POTUS could have mishandled the Covid situation early on despite clearly having advanced warning it was going to be potentially very bad?

No way someone can bring this type of nuance to this thread where you clearly have to be all on board for one devil or the other?

Disagreed. Sounds like a lot of after the fact driving to me. Trump administration did not "cause" the shutdown nor are they responsible for partial and failed reopenings. That is just partisan hobgobblery.

Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Disagreed. Sounds like a lot of after the fact driving to me. Trump administration did not "cause" the shutdown nor are they responsible for partial and failed reopenings. That is just partisan hobgobblery.

---

Right, because it is clear Trump's team had a great plan in place when cases started escalating with plenty of PPE for the frontline and availability of masks, etc for the general public.

You know, its ok to say Trump --- and pretty much every leader in the world -- screwed up. It's forgivable to make decisional issues with a novel virus, and/or to change your approach after you learn more.
But to say you knew it was worse AND to not implement procedures to help ensure front-line workers would be protected....that's difficult to minimize.

But, of course 40% will support him if he directly shot their mom, 40% would vote against him if he turned them all into millionaires and had had implemented policies that resulted in 0 covid deaths.

Those middle 20% though.....

---

The 40% nonsense is so typical of message board warriors. It's just stupid and unbecoming.

Trump placed big orders before he even declared a state of emergency, before there were even 20000-30000 cases nationally. That would be considered an effort to protect frontline workers. Maybe not to leftists I guess.

Trump has changed strategy multiple times as he's learned more.

LOTS of backseat driving.

Pacfanweb said:

---

packgrad said:

---

El presidente hits the nail on the head here.

---

I haven't listened to any of it, but this was my first thought.

If what Trump said was so bad or so important, Woodward would have an obligation to put it out THEN.

He did not.

It's clear this is just another attempt to chip away at the President right before the election.

My sense of it, just glancing around the internet and the news is, people are getting wise to them.

---

We didn't elect Bob Woodward as POTUS, last time I checked. We're relying on Trump's executive leadership not Bob Woodward's.

And it's laughable to think that Trump would have fallen in line if Woodward put it out back then. He would have immediately come out denying or deflecting what Woodward said, or recasting it in some new, false light like he almost always does.

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

packgrad said:

---

El presidente hits the nail on the head here.

---

I haven't listened to any of it, but this was my first thought.

If what Trump said was so bad or so important, Woodward would have an obligation to put it out THEN.

He did not.

It's clear this is just another attempt to chip away at the President right before the election.

My sense of it, just glancing around the internet and the news is, people are getting wise to them.

---

We didn't elect Bob Woodward as POTUS, last time I checked. We're relying on Trump's executive leadership not Bob Woodward's.

And it's laughable to think that Trump would have fallen in line if Woodward put it out back then. He would have immediately come out denying or deflecting what Woodward said, or recasting it in some new, false light like he almost always does.

---

I didn't say that.

I said Woodward had an obligation to release that information at the time. Not wait until 6 months later.

There's only one reason he released it now

My backseat driving critique is he never should have locked down at all. Let it burn through like it was going to, and did anyway. I don't think the NE were benefited from lockdown at all. They were already behind the curve.

Another nothing story.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Disagreed. Sounds like a lot of after the fact driving to me. Trump administration did not "cause" the shutdown nor are they responsible for partial and failed reopenings. That is just partisan hobgobblery.

---

Right, because it is clear Trump's team had a great plan in place when cases started escalating with plenty of PPE for the frontline and availability of masks, etc for the general public.

You know, its ok to say Trump --- and pretty much every leader in the world -- screwed up. It's forgivable to make decisional issues with a novel virus, and/or to change your approach after you learn more.
But to say you knew it was worse AND to not implement procedures to help ensure front-line workers would be protected....that's difficult to minimize.

But, of course 40% will support him if he directly shot their mom, 40% would vote against him if he turned them all into millionaires and had had implemented policies that resulted in 0 covid deaths.

Those middle 20% though.....

---

The 40% nonsense is so typical of message board warriors. It's just stupid and unbecoming.

Trump placed big orders before he even declared a state of emergency, before there were even 20000-30000 cases nationally. That would be considered an effort to protect frontline workers. Maybe not to leftists I guess.

Trump has changed strategy multiple times as he's learned more.

LOTS of backseat driving.

---

Mehh, if he had reacted when he clearly first knew it was problem, and had the PPE then, he may have actually been able to do what you propose --- not shut down.

The 40% nonsense is clearly a bit of exaggeration -- but there are some large % of base who would under almost no circumstance, vote against Trump now
Likewise, there are some large % of left voters, who almost under no circumstance, would vote for Trump. Jeez....the reason every Dem is pushing voter registration in black colleges, areas, etc, is because they know 95% of those folks will vote Dem w/no other marketing effort required.

So both sides have their entrenched groups who will not budge. Trump and the media have helped entrench both of those groups.

And If Trump had the capacity to show some degree of empathy -- for either Covid victims or racial injustice victims, he'd likely be leading the polls despite his bad decisions at the beginning of Covid. Whatever else we want in a POTUS, most still want a decent person (see also, why HRC could not be elected)

But what if it isn't racial injustice? What if, instead, it's isolated cases blown well out of proportion? What if even those cases are just law enforcement officers doing an extremely tough and dangerous job dealing with violent criminals who are aggressively resisting arrest?

Should he really be calling that racial injustice?

Also, what do you mean by "showing empathy for covid-19 victims"?

Give some specific examples of what he should be doing now to "show empathy".

Packchem91 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Also, what do you mean by "showing empathy for covid-19 victims"?

Give some specific examples of what he should be doing now to "show empathy".

---

not mocking people being scared every time something happens? Not waiting months to say "masks are good" but then mocking his opponent regularly as a chicken for wearing one....which can't play very well to people who've had their lives and families altered?
Would he mock a cancer victim for wearing long sleeves in the middle of the summer?

Maybe one time having a presser and getting emotional about the fact that more than 100k Americans have died from this?

If I need to describe to you what empathy for victims of loss looks like --- and that this president shows it, than there is really no reason to debate it. There can be a bunch of things you like about Trump, but his ability to demonstrate empathy -- for anything -- can not possibly be one.**

**His comments about McCain's status as a POW, and then what appear to be similar comments about other military folks even further exemplifies what may be his single biggest flaw?

---

He doesn't mock people being scared every time something happens. That's just made up outrage.

Waiting months to say masks are good has dick to do with empathy.

He mocks Biden regularly for wearing one? That's a bit of a stretch too.

He's had press conferences where he expresses remorse for people affected.

He's had dozens of meetings with people where he has shown empathy in regards to the virus, personal loss, violence, war, etc. I get they're not broadcast 24/7 since he's the enemy of the press, but to deny they happen is very head in the sand for someone who claims to see all sides.

McCain has dick to do with this as does the make believe Atlantic story I'm guessing you're trolling with. McCain and he had a bad relationship.

Packchem91 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

But what if it isn't racial injustice? What if, instead, it's isolated cases blown well out of proportion? What if even those cases are just law enforcement officers doing an extremely tough and dangerous job dealing with violent criminals who are aggressively resisting arrest?

Should he really be calling that racial injustice?

---

I'm not going to try to make you see something you clearly don't want to see.

But for a POTUS who, at least pre-covid have been able to get up in front of black people and talk about job improvements, advancements in workplace, etc., to the point of perhaps persuading some of those folks from voting Dem......but he completely p'd away any chance of winning those folks over when he died on the hill of protecting the "good folks" at Charlottesville.
His comments there gave anyone who wanted to paint him as intolerant the very big brush to be able to do so. He's not done much to remove that stain....and even now, he could absolutely make statements that address the fears black people have about engrained prejudices w/o admitting he agrees with them. But let them know he isn't ignoring them. You know...again, empathy.

Or he can do what he does. And we can continue to get more divisive.

---

I'm not sure if I've seen polling lately that DOESNT say Trump is improving in polling with people of color. Seems to run contrary to your opinion.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Also, what do you mean by "showing empathy for covid-19 victims"?

Give some specific examples of what he should be doing now to "show empathy".

---

not mocking people being scared every time something happens? Not waiting months to say "masks are good" but then mocking his opponent regularly as a chicken for wearing one....which can't play very well to people who've had their lives and families altered?
Would he mock a cancer victim for wearing long sleeves in the middle of the summer?

Maybe one time having a presser and getting emotional about the fact that more than 100k Americans have died from this?

If I need to describe to you what empathy for victims of loss looks like --- and that this president shows it, than there is really no reason to debate it. There can be a bunch of things you like about Trump, but his ability to demonstrate empathy -- for anything -- can not possibly be one.**

**His comments about McCain's status as a POW, and then what appear to be similar comments about other military folks even further exemplifies what may be his single biggest flaw?

---

He doesn't mock people being scared every time something happens. That's just made up outrage.

Waiting months to say masks are good has dick to do with empathy.

He mocks Biden regularly for wearing one? That's a bit of a stretch too.

He's had press conferences where he expresses remorse for people affected.

He's had dozens of meetings with people where he has shown empathy in regards to the virus, personal loss, violence, war, etc. I get they're not broadcast 24/7 since he's the enemy of the press, but to deny they happen is very head in the sand for someone who claims to see all sides.

McCain has dick to do with this as does the make believe Atlantic story I'm guessing you're trolling with. McCain and he had a bad relationship.

---

OK.

What kind of POS do you have to be, that, even when you have a disagreement with someone, you lash out and say that being a POW just proves you were a loser?

I mean, the fact you would justify those comments because "they had a bad relationship", speaks volumes.

And is why you are definitely in the "trump no matter what'ters"

The election will essentially be over at 11pm on the night of the first debate .

Packchem91 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

Also, what do you mean by "showing empathy for covid-19 victims"?

Give some specific examples of what he should be doing now to "show empathy".

---

not mocking people being scared every time something happens? Not waiting months to say "masks are good" but then mocking his opponent regularly as a chicken for wearing one....which can't play very well to people who've had their lives and families altered?
Would he mock a cancer victim for wearing long sleeves in the middle of the summer?

Maybe one time having a presser and getting emotional about the fact that more than 100k Americans have died from this?

If I need to describe to you what empathy for victims of loss looks like --- and that this president shows it, than there is really no reason to debate it. There can be a bunch of things you like about Trump, but his ability to demonstrate empathy -- for anything -- can not possibly be one.**

**His comments about McCain's status as a POW, and then what appear to be similar comments about other military folks even further exemplifies what may be his single biggest flaw?

---

So, you're looking for fake tears over policy substance?

(And good grief, you're still hanging on to the Atlantic hit piece? )

Packchem91 said:

---

SupplyChainPack said:

---

But what if it isn't racial injustice? What if, instead, it's isolated cases blown well out of proportion? What if even those cases are just law enforcement officers doing an extremely tough and dangerous job dealing with violent criminals who are aggressively resisting arrest?

Should he really be calling that racial injustice?

---

I'm not going to try to make you see something you clearly don't want to see.

---

That's funny, I was thinking the same about you when you referenced the made-up Atlantic hit piece.

(And when you made a false reference to the good people comment. Without anything else to go on, libs have driven that one into the ground, and don't even understand even at that.)

Desperate people looking for racism will find something, anything, and declare it racism every single time.

Bas2020 said:

---

The election will essentially be over at 11pm on the night of the first debate .

---

It's cute that you think there are still gonna be debates.

There is no way that anyone allows Biden to get on a stage with Trump, even though Biden will get the questions in advance.

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Disagreed. Sounds like a lot of after the fact driving to me. Trump administration did not "cause" the shutdown nor are they responsible for partial and failed reopenings. That is just partisan hobgobblery.

---

Right, because it is clear Trump's team had a great plan in place when cases started escalating with plenty of PPE for the frontline and availability of masks, etc for the general public.

You know, its ok to say Trump --- and pretty much every leader in the world -- screwed up. It's forgivable to make decisional issues with a novel virus, and/or to change your approach after you learn more.
But to say you knew it was worse AND to not implement procedures to help ensure front-line workers would be protected....that's difficult to minimize.

But, of course 40% will support him if he directly shot their mom, 40% would vote against him if he turned them all into millionaires and had had implemented policies that resulted in 0 covid deaths.

Those middle 20% though.....

---

The 40% nonsense is so typical of message board warriors. It's just stupid and unbecoming.

Trump placed big orders before he even declared a state of emergency, before there were even 20000-30000 cases nationally. That would be considered an effort to protect frontline workers. Maybe not to leftists I guess.

Trump has changed strategy multiple times as he's learned more.

LOTS of backseat driving.

---

Mehh, if he had reacted when he clearly first knew it was problem, and had the PPE then, he may have actually been able to do what you propose --- not shut down.

The 40% nonsense is clearly a bit of exaggeration -- but there are some large % of base who would under almost no circumstance, vote against Trump now
Likewise, there are some large % of left voters, who almost under no circumstance, would vote for Trump. Jeez....the reason every Dem is pushing voter registration in black colleges, areas, etc, is because they know 95% of those folks will vote Dem w/no other marketing effort required.

So both sides have their entrenched groups who will not budge. Trump and the media have helped entrench both of those groups.

And If Trump had the capacity to show some degree of empathy -- for either Covid victims or racial injustice victims, he'd likely be leading the polls despite his bad decisions at the beginning of Covid. Whatever else we want in a POTUS, most still want a decent person (see also, why HRC could not be elected)

---

oh no.....you can't leave the democrats out of that comment.

The democrats have done absolutely everything they can to vilify Trump and anyone that has ad anything to do with his administration.

Between that and there being and absolute two party system of justice in this country where you don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of society depending on the letter behind you name we have the situation that we are in now.

cowboypack02 said:

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Bas2020 said:

---

The election will essentially be over at 11pm on the night of the first debate .

---

It's cute that you think there are still gonna be debates.

There is no way that anyone allows Biden to get on a stage with Trump, even though Biden will get the questions in advance.

---

I agree, there is really no point in a debate.