Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

Immunity from vaccination? Lol. You just have given up on science, huh?

There literally NEVER was immunity from vaccination. But Democrats don't care about science anymore. "Immunity" probably has been redefined.

---

What is "natural immunity" in this context then? Because there's natural immunity against COVID and other circulating viruses out there. That doesn't mean the portion of the population with natural immunity has zero chance of catching the virus.

So yes, you're using "immunity" wrong. In contagious disease medicine "creating immunity" is a synonym for "creating protection." It doesn't literally mean "created a situation where there is zero possibility to catch the virus."

This isn't a new definition of the word immunity. It's been defined this way for as long as contagious disease medicine has been a thing.

---

Oh. Covid vaccination which did not stop you from getting covid, did not reduce symptoms, did not stop you from spreading it provided "immunity".

Lol. Mmkay civ.

---

You're still angry that the MSM/CDC botched early messaging and/or were just wrong with some specifics as they tried to understand a novel and evolving disease.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean COVID vaccines didn't save millions of lives and prevent countless other hospitalizations, especially early when the disease was much more severe.

I'd consider "death" a pretty important symptom to reduce, no? (And this study was published by a 200 year old British peer-reviewed medical journal so you don't have to worry about it being a product of Dems or the MSM!)

Lancet: COVID vaxxing prevented 15 to 20 million deaths in first year of vaccinations

---

Hell, hasn't "science" pretty much disproved this study by now? They operated under the assumption that public health measures reduced covid outcomes. We KNOW now that was bunk.

This study is now misinformation.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

Immunity from vaccination? Lol. You just have given up on science, huh?

There literally NEVER was immunity from vaccination. But Democrats don't care about science anymore. "Immunity" probably has been redefined.

---

What is "natural immunity" in this context then? Because there's natural immunity against COVID and other circulating viruses out there. That doesn't mean the portion of the population with natural immunity has zero chance of catching the virus.

So yes, you're using "immunity" wrong. In contagious disease medicine "creating immunity" is a synonym for "creating protection." It doesn't literally mean "created a situation where there is zero possibility to catch the virus."

This isn't a new definition of the word immunity. It's been defined this way for as long as contagious disease medicine has been a thing.

---

Oh. Covid vaccination which did not stop you from getting covid, did not reduce symptoms, did not stop you from spreading it provided "immunity".

Lol. Mmkay civ.

---

You're still angry that the MSM/CDC botched early messaging and/or were just wrong with some specifics as they tried to understand a novel and evolving disease.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean COVID vaccines didn't save millions of lives and prevent countless other hospitalizations, especially early when the disease was much more severe.

I'd consider "death" a pretty important symptom to reduce, no? (And this study was published by a 200 year old British peer-reviewed medical journal so you don't have to worry about it being a product of Dems or the MSM!)

Lancet: COVID vaxxing prevented 15 to 20 million deaths in first year of vaccinations

---

Yes. I am still mad. But it doesn't change that there was a circle jerk of misinformation, not from who you said the misinformation was coming from back then, but from your trusted sources.

I don't care how old the journal is. That does nothing to prove the theory presented.

Here is a breakdown of the study. I'm sure it doesn't get the attention the study did because it was contrary to the message desired.

"A recent study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases applied mathematical modeling to estimate that mass COVID-19 vaccinations saved between 14-20 million lives worldwide during the first year of the COVID-19 vaccination program. This commentary provides a brief overview of the study, and then identifies potential sources of model misspecification including inaccurate assumptions about vaccine-derived immunity and ignoring additional contributors of pandemic-related excess deaths. We describe how these factors could lead to grossly inflated estimates of deaths averted due to mass vaccinations, which may explain the study's lack of face validity and internal consistency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361631679_Commentary_on_Global_impact_of_the_first_year_of_COVID-19_vaccination_a_mathematical_modelling_study_The_Lancet_Infectious_Diseases_2022_Jun_23

---

Here are three more.

3 Million American lives saved

33% and 67% reduction in Japanese cases and deaths, respectively

63% Reduction in French COVID hospitalizations and deaths for age 50+

At the end of the day you're free to try to pick apart aspects of any of these studies but when different scientists use different methods to study different populations all around the world and their broad-brush findings are quite consistent, that's meaningful and veracious.

Also notably, you won't find any study anywhere that asserts the opposite - that vaccinations did not prevent significant hospitalizations and deaths worldwide.

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

So just to be clear here for your other lefty friends... when was the last covid shot that you, your wife and your children had?

Described by many as one of the top vaccine experts on earth.

⚠️‼️🚫 Não vacine seus filhos com vacinas contra a covid! Nunca!

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche (PhD) explica que as crianças nascem equipadas com Anticorpos inatos.

Tradução em português por LuskaRusso • Copyrights pic.twitter.com/8eWwgHtTKI

— Daniela 🇧🇷🇺🇸 (@Dani_danibr) November 1, 2023

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche: Turbo cancers and autoimmune diseases will continue to increase! pic.twitter.com/YYoldfw2bf

— Project TABS (@ProjectTabs) August 14, 2023

Oncologist: "Cause Unknown" Is a Crime and a Cover-Up

"The number one cause of death in Alberta in 2021 was 'cause unknown,' and that's never happened before," lamented @MakisMD.

"We had 3,400 Albertans die of 'cause unknown.' And again, it's because the proper autopsies are… pic.twitter.com/JSdE9mxlKY

— The Vigilant Fox 🦊 (@VigilantFox) November 7, 2023

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

Immunity from vaccination? Lol. You just have given up on science, huh?

There literally NEVER was immunity from vaccination. But Democrats don't care about science anymore. "Immunity" probably has been redefined.

---

What is "natural immunity" in this context then? Because there's natural immunity against COVID and other circulating viruses out there. That doesn't mean the portion of the population with natural immunity has zero chance of catching the virus.

So yes, you're using "immunity" wrong. In contagious disease medicine "creating immunity" is a synonym for "creating protection." It doesn't literally mean "created a situation where there is zero possibility to catch the virus."

This isn't a new definition of the word immunity. It's been defined this way for as long as contagious disease medicine has been a thing.

---

Oh. Covid vaccination which did not stop you from getting covid, did not reduce symptoms, did not stop you from spreading it provided "immunity".

Lol. Mmkay civ.

---

You're still angry that the MSM/CDC botched early messaging and/or were just wrong with some specifics as they tried to understand a novel and evolving disease.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean COVID vaccines didn't save millions of lives and prevent countless other hospitalizations, especially early when the disease was much more severe.

I'd consider "death" a pretty important symptom to reduce, no? (And this study was published by a 200 year old British peer-reviewed medical journal so you don't have to worry about it being a product of Dems or the MSM!)

Lancet: COVID vaxxing prevented 15 to 20 million deaths in first year of vaccinations

---

Yes. I am still mad. But it doesn't change that there was a circle jerk of misinformation, not from who you said the misinformation was coming from back then, but from your trusted sources.

I don't care how old the journal is. That does nothing to prove the theory presented.

Here is a breakdown of the study. I'm sure it doesn't get the attention the study did because it was contrary to the message desired.

"A recent study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases applied mathematical modeling to estimate that mass COVID-19 vaccinations saved between 14-20 million lives worldwide during the first year of the COVID-19 vaccination program. This commentary provides a brief overview of the study, and then identifies potential sources of model misspecification including inaccurate assumptions about vaccine-derived immunity and ignoring additional contributors of pandemic-related excess deaths. We describe how these factors could lead to grossly inflated estimates of deaths averted due to mass vaccinations, which may explain the study's lack of face validity and internal consistency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361631679_Commentary_on_Global_impact_of_the_first_year_of_COVID-19_vaccination_a_mathematical_modelling_study_The_Lancet_Infectious_Diseases_2022_Jun_23

---

Here are three more.

3 Million American lives saved

33% and 67% reduction in Japanese cases and deaths, respectively

63% Reduction in French COVID hospitalizations and deaths for age 50+

At the end of the day you're free to try to pick apart aspects of any of these studies but when different scientists use different methods to study different populations all around the world and their broad-brush findings are quite consistent, that's meaningful and veracious.

Also notably, you won't find any study anywhere that asserts the opposite - that vaccinations did not prevent significant hospitalizations and deaths worldwide.

---

I have no doubt you can find plenty that say that. You also had the same people saying masks worked, lockdowns stopped the spread, and children are resilient they'll be fine. All were bull**** and you believed them all and posted on this board with the same confidence that they were right because "science".

I'm sure a study that said vaccines did not work would have been welcomed. Remember, you guys were for creating lists of the unvaccinated, firing the unvaccinated, creating camps to relocate the unvaccinated into. You guys were so welcome of contrary information to government decree. People were blacklisted, threatened , doxxed, and fired for saying things contrary.

You want to rewrite history and say things worked and they did the best they could. No, they didn't work and no they didn't do the best they could. They KNEW their methods would not work before going all in on them. They knew masks didn't work. They knew the lockdowns didn't work.

But believe them that vaccines worked. I mean, they said you wouldn't get it, spread it, or die from it if you got vaccinated, which people did and do. But believe them when they say it limited hospitalizations and reduced symptoms.

Mmkay, civ.

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

Immunity from vaccination? Lol. You just have given up on science, huh?

There literally NEVER was immunity from vaccination. But Democrats don't care about science anymore. "Immunity" probably has been redefined.

---

What is "natural immunity" in this context then? Because there's natural immunity against COVID and other circulating viruses out there. That doesn't mean the portion of the population with natural immunity has zero chance of catching the virus.

So yes, you're using "immunity" wrong. In contagious disease medicine "creating immunity" is a synonym for "creating protection." It doesn't literally mean "created a situation where there is zero possibility to catch the virus."

This isn't a new definition of the word immunity. It's been defined this way for as long as contagious disease medicine has been a thing.

---

Oh. Covid vaccination which did not stop you from getting covid, did not reduce symptoms, did not stop you from spreading it provided "immunity".

Lol. Mmkay civ.

---

You're still angry that the MSM/CDC botched early messaging and/or were just wrong with some specifics as they tried to understand a novel and evolving disease.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean COVID vaccines didn't save millions of lives and prevent countless other hospitalizations, especially early when the disease was much more severe.

I'd consider "death" a pretty important symptom to reduce, no? (And this study was published by a 200 year old British peer-reviewed medical journal so you don't have to worry about it being a product of Dems or the MSM!)

Lancet: COVID vaxxing prevented 15 to 20 million deaths in first year of vaccinations

---

Yes. I am still mad. But it doesn't change that there was a circle jerk of misinformation, not from who you said the misinformation was coming from back then, but from your trusted sources.

I don't care how old the journal is. That does nothing to prove the theory presented.

Here is a breakdown of the study. I'm sure it doesn't get the attention the study did because it was contrary to the message desired.

"A recent study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases applied mathematical modeling to estimate that mass COVID-19 vaccinations saved between 14-20 million lives worldwide during the first year of the COVID-19 vaccination program. This commentary provides a brief overview of the study, and then identifies potential sources of model misspecification including inaccurate assumptions about vaccine-derived immunity and ignoring additional contributors of pandemic-related excess deaths. We describe how these factors could lead to grossly inflated estimates of deaths averted due to mass vaccinations, which may explain the study's lack of face validity and internal consistency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361631679_Commentary_on_Global_impact_of_the_first_year_of_COVID-19_vaccination_a_mathematical_modelling_study_The_Lancet_Infectious_Diseases_2022_Jun_23

---

Here are three more.

3 Million American lives saved

33% and 67% reduction in Japanese cases and deaths, respectively

63% Reduction in French COVID hospitalizations and deaths for age 50+

At the end of the day you're free to try to pick apart aspects of any of these studies but when different scientists use different methods to study different populations all around the world and their broad-brush findings are quite consistent, that's meaningful and veracious.

Also notably, you won't find any study anywhere that asserts the opposite - that vaccinations did not prevent significant hospitalizations and deaths worldwide.

---

Reading your first study not even a page down it says "Vaccination also has prevented many millions of COVID infections. "

Lol. Did you even read these before you linked them? We know vaccines did not do that now.

A little further I found this

"In addition, as our previous analysis demonstrated, vaccines have kept children in school"

We know this to be untrue as well.

I don't need to read any further in this one.

Good job posting a propaganda piece as a "study".

I'll read some on the others a little later. If they're like this one, it will be short reading.

TheStorm said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

So just to be clear here for your other lefty friends... when was the last covid shot that you, your wife and your children had?

---

Fall of 21.

We've each had Covid once or twice since then so we've also got some lingering natural immunity and aren't high-risk so haven't boosted since.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

Immunity from vaccination? Lol. You just have given up on science, huh?

There literally NEVER was immunity from vaccination. But Democrats don't care about science anymore. "Immunity" probably has been redefined.

---

What is "natural immunity" in this context then? Because there's natural immunity against COVID and other circulating viruses out there. That doesn't mean the portion of the population with natural immunity has zero chance of catching the virus.

So yes, you're using "immunity" wrong. In contagious disease medicine "creating immunity" is a synonym for "creating protection." It doesn't literally mean "created a situation where there is zero possibility to catch the virus."

This isn't a new definition of the word immunity. It's been defined this way for as long as contagious disease medicine has been a thing.

---

Oh. Covid vaccination which did not stop you from getting covid, did not reduce symptoms, did not stop you from spreading it provided "immunity".

Lol. Mmkay civ.

---

You're still angry that the MSM/CDC botched early messaging and/or were just wrong with some specifics as they tried to understand a novel and evolving disease.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean COVID vaccines didn't save millions of lives and prevent countless other hospitalizations, especially early when the disease was much more severe.

I'd consider "death" a pretty important symptom to reduce, no? (And this study was published by a 200 year old British peer-reviewed medical journal so you don't have to worry about it being a product of Dems or the MSM!)

Lancet: COVID vaxxing prevented 15 to 20 million deaths in first year of vaccinations

---

Yes. I am still mad. But it doesn't change that there was a circle jerk of misinformation, not from who you said the misinformation was coming from back then, but from your trusted sources.

I don't care how old the journal is. That does nothing to prove the theory presented.

Here is a breakdown of the study. I'm sure it doesn't get the attention the study did because it was contrary to the message desired.

"A recent study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases applied mathematical modeling to estimate that mass COVID-19 vaccinations saved between 14-20 million lives worldwide during the first year of the COVID-19 vaccination program. This commentary provides a brief overview of the study, and then identifies potential sources of model misspecification including inaccurate assumptions about vaccine-derived immunity and ignoring additional contributors of pandemic-related excess deaths. We describe how these factors could lead to grossly inflated estimates of deaths averted due to mass vaccinations, which may explain the study's lack of face validity and internal consistency."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361631679_Commentary_on_Global_impact_of_the_first_year_of_COVID-19_vaccination_a_mathematical_modelling_study_The_Lancet_Infectious_Diseases_2022_Jun_23

---

Here are three more.

3 Million American lives saved

33% and 67% reduction in Japanese cases and deaths, respectively

63% Reduction in French COVID hospitalizations and deaths for age 50+

At the end of the day you're free to try to pick apart aspects of any of these studies but when different scientists use different methods to study different populations all around the world and their broad-brush findings are quite consistent, that's meaningful and veracious.

Also notably, you won't find any study anywhere that asserts the opposite - that vaccinations did not prevent significant hospitalizations and deaths worldwide.

---

Reading your first study not even a page down it says "Vaccination also has prevented many millions of COVID infections. "

Lol. Did you even read these before you linked them? We know vaccines did not do that now.

A little further I found this

"In addition, as our previous analysis demonstrated, vaccines have kept children in school"

We know this to be untrue as well.

I don't need to read any further in this one.

Good job posting a propaganda piece as a "study".

I'll read some on the others a little later. If they're like this one, it will be short reading.

---

Read or skim the French study coincidentally just published yesterday (last link).

It negates the impact of reduced transmission and thus provides a "lower bound" or floor of serious outcomes (hospitalization and death) mitigated by vaccination that is completely untethered from prospective transmission impacts.

When you say we "know vaccines did not [prevent infection] now," that is simply not accurate. We know that vaccines (and prior infection) are substantially less effective at preventing transmission with Omicron than with Delta or Alpha.

Getting less good at preventing infection as the virus severity reduced and transmissibility increased as it evolved is not nearly the same as not preventing infection.

The vaccines were quite good at preventing infection/transmission with Delta and Alpha.

Belgian study: Vaccine effectiveness against transmission of alpha, delta and omicron SARS-COV-2-infection, Belgian contact tracing, 20212022

I'll take a look when I have time. Hopefully these have less propaganda than the first two you've posted.

You say "When you say we "know vaccines did not [prevent infection] now," that is simply not accurate. We know that vaccines (and prior infection) are substantially less effective at preventing transmission with Omicron than with Delta or Alpha.

Getting less good at preventing infection as the virus severity reduced and transmissibility increased as it evolved is not nearly the same as not preventing infection."

This is the line you're standing on? Less effective is different than doesn't prevent? Your studies matter of factly state that vaccines prevent transmission. That's not true. That is one of the false variables they use in determining effectiveness. You want to nitpick what I'm saying while citing a study and the "veracity" of said studies without questioning their made up variables. You want to believe. It's that simple.

I started the Japanese one and just had to laugh as basically they all have an end goal objective touting the success of the vaccine and government strategies. The Japanese one was lauding social distancing mitigation strategies as effective in the decrease in hospitalizations and deaths as well. I'll try to get back to it later.

Covid has absolutely destroyed the credibility of pharmaceuticals, medicine, and medical organizations. It's to be expected though. When the organization responsible for funding most medical studies was complicit in the creation of the covid virus, authors of studies better toe the company line.

packgrad said:

---

I'll take a look when I have time. Hopefully these have less propaganda than the first two you've posted.

You say "When you say we "know vaccines did not [prevent infection] now," that is simply not accurate. We know that vaccines (and prior infection) are substantially less effective at preventing transmission with Omicron than with Delta or Alpha.

Getting less good at preventing infection as the virus severity reduced and transmissibility increased as it evolved is not nearly the same as not preventing infection."

This is the line you're standing on? Less effective is different than doesn't prevent? Your studies matter of factly state that vaccines prevent transmission. That's not true. That is one of the false variables they use in determining effectiveness. You want to nitpick what I'm saying while citing a study and the "veracity" of said studies without questioning their made up variables. You want to believe. It's that simple.

I started the Japanese one and just had to laugh as basically they all have an end goal objective touting the success of the vaccine and government strategies. The Japanese one was lauding social distancing mitigation strategies as effective in the decrease in hospitalizations and deaths as well. I'll try to get back to it later.

Covid has absolutely destroyed the credibility of pharmaceuticals, medicine, and medical organizations. It's to be expected though. When the organization responsible for funding most medical studies was complicit in the creation of the covid virus, authors of studies better toe the company line.

---

So when every study I've ever seen over the last two years takes a control group and compares the rates of infection to a vaccinated experimental group, and the vaccinated group is lower (in early variants signficantly lower), how does that not show vaccines prevent infection?

Can you find a single study from anywhere in the world that claims to demonstrate what you're saying - that COVID vaccines don't currently and never have prevented infection?

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'll take a look when I have time. Hopefully these have less propaganda than the first two you've posted.

You say "When you say we "know vaccines did not [prevent infection] now," that is simply not accurate. We know that vaccines (and prior infection) are substantially less effective at preventing transmission with Omicron than with Delta or Alpha.

Getting less good at preventing infection as the virus severity reduced and transmissibility increased as it evolved is not nearly the same as not preventing infection."

This is the line you're standing on? Less effective is different than doesn't prevent? Your studies matter of factly state that vaccines prevent transmission. That's not true. That is one of the false variables they use in determining effectiveness. You want to nitpick what I'm saying while citing a study and the "veracity" of said studies without questioning their made up variables. You want to believe. It's that simple.

I started the Japanese one and just had to laugh as basically they all have an end goal objective touting the success of the vaccine and government strategies. The Japanese one was lauding social distancing mitigation strategies as effective in the decrease in hospitalizations and deaths as well. I'll try to get back to it later.

Covid has absolutely destroyed the credibility of pharmaceuticals, medicine, and medical organizations. It's to be expected though. When the organization responsible for funding most medical studies was complicit in the creation of the covid virus, authors of studies better toe the company line.

---

So when every study I've ever seen over the last two years takes a control group and compares the rates of infection to a vaccinated experimental group, and the vaccinated group is lower (in early variants signficantly lower), how does that not show vaccines prevent infection?

Can you find a single study from anywhere in the world that claims to demonstrate what you're saying - that COVID vaccines don't currently and never have prevented infection?

---

You just said they don't. Lol.

If something is less effective at preventing, it doesn't prevent.

Godalmighty.

I think when we look back on the covid vaccines in the future, it will be viewed the same as phenylephrine now, except the covid vaccines have been proven to be dangerous for some segments of society.

Dangerous is probably not the correct word there, but risk/benefit falls in risk versus benefit.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I'll take a look when I have time. Hopefully these have less propaganda than the first two you've posted.

You say "When you say we "know vaccines did not [prevent infection] now," that is simply not accurate. We know that vaccines (and prior infection) are substantially less effective at preventing transmission with Omicron than with Delta or Alpha.

Getting less good at preventing infection as the virus severity reduced and transmissibility increased as it evolved is not nearly the same as not preventing infection."

This is the line you're standing on? Less effective is different than doesn't prevent? Your studies matter of factly state that vaccines prevent transmission. That's not true. That is one of the false variables they use in determining effectiveness. You want to nitpick what I'm saying while citing a study and the "veracity" of said studies without questioning their made up variables. You want to believe. It's that simple.

I started the Japanese one and just had to laugh as basically they all have an end goal objective touting the success of the vaccine and government strategies. The Japanese one was lauding social distancing mitigation strategies as effective in the decrease in hospitalizations and deaths as well. I'll try to get back to it later.

Covid has absolutely destroyed the credibility of pharmaceuticals, medicine, and medical organizations. It's to be expected though. When the organization responsible for funding most medical studies was complicit in the creation of the covid virus, authors of studies better toe the company line.

---

So when every study I've ever seen over the last two years takes a control group and compares the rates of infection to a vaccinated experimental group, and the vaccinated group is lower (in early variants signficantly lower), how does that not show vaccines prevent infection?

Can you find a single study from anywhere in the world that claims to demonstrate what you're saying - that COVID vaccines don't currently and never have prevented infection?

---

You just said they don't. Lol.

If something is less effective at preventing, it doesn't prevent.

Godalmighty.

---

So to illustrate your point in a simple hypothetical study:

A control group has a 60% rate of Delta COVID infection.
A vaccinated experimental group has a 30% rate of infection.
The finding is therefore that the vaccine prevented 50% of the infections the experimental group otherwise would have gotten.

You're really saying that because the experimental group doesn't prevent 100% of the infections, it "doesn't prevent infections?"

This is just like last night you seemingly saying that because a vaccine doesn't prevent 100% of cases in the vaxxed it doesn't "create immunity."

You're a smart dude in a technical field. You're angry about the media, COVID messaging, CDC, etc. so you're choosing to ignore data and redefine epidemiological terms that have been used since the field was created and then engage in semantic debates to try to prove some point.

Just say you hate the media, Dems, COVID messaging, the CDC, whoever (you actually already do this I guess).

Completely redefining how vaccine effectiveness (any vaccine, not just COVID) is gauged and then acting like significant reductions in (especially early) COBID transmissions and most importantly hospitalizations and deaths are either made up or meaningless when determining vaccination effectiveness is silly and pointless.

packgrad said:

---

I think when we look back on the covid vaccines in the future, it will be viewed the same as phenylephrine now, except the covid vaccines have been proven to be dangerous for some segments of society.

Dangerous is probably not the correct word there, but risk/benefit falls in risk versus benefit.

---

Given your unfortunate personal experience with vaccine side effects, this is a very understandable sentiment.

https://www.health.com/covid-flu-shots-stroke-8391595

Quote:

---

Getting COVID and Flu Shots Together May Slightly Increase Risk of Stroke in Older Adults

Getting a high-dose flu shot and COVID-19 vaccine at the same time may slightly raise the risk of stroke for people 85 years and older, according to a new study from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

---

It's only "slight" though. These adverse effects are ALWAYS "rare" and "slight", according to the "official" studies. Always!! You can trust the FDA and CDC can't you???

This is a conspiracy theorist article!! The vaccines are safe and effective!! Always safe and effective, even if they are not properly tested to determine if they are safe or effective!! Always!

I'm not redefining anything. The same groups that try to redefine gender are the ones that push "covid vaccine provides immunity from" a virus it has never stopped one from getting, being symptomatic, or spreading. That's a bull**** definition of immunity. But then again, these people that push this definition think a man can become a woman because a toad and a seahorse change genders.

packgrad said:

---

I'm not redefining anything. The same groups that try to redefine gender are the ones that push "covid vaccine provides immunity from" a virus it has never stopped one from getting, being symptomatic, or spreading. That's a bull**** definition of immunity. But then again, these people that push this definition think a man can become a woman because a toad and a seahorse change genders.

---

That's the definition that's been used to describe the effectiveness of all vaccines, forever.

Viruses aren't only 'effective' if they provide complete immunity. No vaccine provides that.

You're acting like this just started for COVID.

However, even when the match between the vaccine and circulating strains is good, vaccines may not be perfectly protective in healthy, non-aged subjects. Even for pathogens that do not rapidly evolve to escape immunity, vaccines rarely confer complete protection from infection in all people, potentially due to variation in vaccine immunogenicity and variation in individuals' responsiveness (Flu vaccine study from 2018)

If a vaccine reduces death and hospitalization by 50%, do you consider that 'ineffective'?

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

Civilized said:

---

TheStorm said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

I think a lot of people have wised up and at the least seem distrustful/suspicious.....thus the 3%. What I think is most important for people to come away with from this and all the other examples is that we are continuously fed a narrative of lies and half-truths. MSM herds the cattle/sheep. We can stop this BS but it requires more than a handful of people thus #devolution to work towards the #greatawakening. Watch Trump's courtroom battle.........and the #boomerang.

---

Why does it have to be distrust or suspicion? Why can't it just be a practical analysis?

Over 90% of Americans have been vaccinated, had COVID, or both so there is a ton of immunity against serious illness already out there.

Most Americans don't feel they need a booster because they've already got immunity through vaccination or infection and the virus itself makes people less sick than it did two or three years ago.

---

So just to be clear here for your other lefty friends... when was the last covid shot that you, your wife and your children had?

---

Fall of 21.

We've each had Covid once or twice since then so we've also got some lingering natural immunity and aren't high-risk so haven't boosted since.

---

Next time I have a cold and go to the Doc I need to ask that the PCR cycles be turned up to 40ish on the test so I can test positive for the 1st time. Unvaccinated anti-vaxers - LOL - such as myself need to join in on the out-of-work stay-at-home fun.

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

We could try to walk you through the fact of how there are only 2 genders and that men cannot become women, or how an unborn child is actually a living human being. But could you even comprehend that? And we're supposedly the ones "who'll never understand" what brainwashed communist libtards are trying to "enlighten" us about??

Do you understand that the worldwide communist movement is itself a conspiracy?

One of the premier vaccine experts in the world calls what was done during the plandemic an "insult to science". He warned about this during the 1st two-three months of the so-called outbreak. He sent letters to the WHO offering to debate their scientists on the merits of starting a vaccine program during the outbreak. How quickly does a virus mutate? Laughable, its changing before you can even vaccinate a dozen people. As a result, we have billions with a compromised immune system......herded like sheep. Wise up, these people want to depopulate the globe and resume with AI and few people. Look at the govt and health groups that weren't req'd to vaccinate....its not hard to connect the dots. I think #theSieve and #theJoker need as many jabs in their arms as eligible for..........how can you guys be so damn #*R*@.

The Immune Status of the Vaccinated is Fundamentally Different From the Unvaccinated (rumble.com)

GuerrillaPack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

We could try to walk you through the fact of how there are only 2 genders and that men cannot become women, or how an unborn child is actually a living human being. But could you even comprehend that? And we're supposedly the ones "who'll never understand" what brainwashed communist libtards are trying to "enlighten" us about??

Do you understand that the worldwide communist movement is itself a conspiracy?

---

That question wasn't actually directed at you or Werewolf... I think it's pretty well established that you two are unmedicated lunatics. I'm sure looking at your conspiracy diagrams is like staring into the sun.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

That question wasn't actually directed at you or Werewolf... I think it's pretty well established that you two are unmedicated lunatics. I'm sure looking at your conspiracy diagrams is like staring into the sun.

---

Your kind can't debate those who know the truth and will destroy you with facts. All you can do is resort to Ad hominem smear tactics.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

That question wasn't actually directed at you or Werewolf... I think it's pretty well established that you two are unmedicated lunatics. I'm sure looking at your conspiracy diagrams is like staring into the sun.

---

Worldwide communism is a conspiracy. The so-called "Great Reset" (aka "build back better") called for in response to the covid scamdemic is part of that worldwide communist conspiracy -- -and one and the same with the so-called "New World Order" conspiracy.

Seems you probably know a lot about communism. You think we're as stupid as the 70 IQ morons who vote for the communist Democrat party? We're not. We can see all these things. These are obvious and real conspiracies. No amount of gas-lighting from commie lackeys will change that.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

That question wasn't actually directed at you or Werewolf... I think it's pretty well established that you two are unmedicated lunatics. I'm sure looking at your conspiracy diagrams is like staring into the sun.

---

Those would be people who think there are 70 genders and that men can become women. And that unborn children are "just a blob of flesh that is not a human being". And that we all came into existence by accident after a big explosion 14 billions years ago, and evolved from amoebas and monkies.

Pure projection and hypocrisy from the Left as usual. Your side is the one with people that literally belong in an insane asylum.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

---

You don't think doctors in other countries (in addition to here in the United States) also weren't being threatened with having their medical licenses revoked if they bucked the system and didn't go along with the "official" narrative on "covid"? Of course they were.

Also, financial considerations and keeping your job is a huge motivation. As I mentioned earlier, Big Pharma now effectively controls the "Big Medical Establishment" -- starting at the medical schools and all the way down to even "independent" doctors. The vast majority of doctors are employed by big conglomerates that are controlled by Big Pharma. 90% of modern "medicine" is now doctors writing you a prescription for a Big Pharma pill. That's where the money is. And that's where the control is. The doctors are dependent on Big Pharma money for their livelihood and job.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

---

You don't think doctors in other countries (in addition to here in the United States) also weren't being threatened with having their medical licenses revoked if they bucked the system and didn't go along with the "official" narrative on "covid"? Of course they were.

Also, financial considerations and keeping your job is a huge motivation. As I mentioned earlier, Big Pharma now effectively controls the "Big Medical Establishment" -- starting at the medical schools and all the way down to even "independent" doctors. The vast majority of doctors are employed by big conglomerates that are controlled by Big Pharma. 90% of modern "medicine" is now doctors writing you a prescription for a Big Pharma pill. That's where the money is. And that's where the control is. The doctors are dependent on Big Pharma money for their livelihood and job.

---

This is what you have to believe for the conspiracy to work so I get why you believe that.

But, no, that's crazy.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

---

You don't think doctors in other countries (in addition to here in the United States) also weren't being threatened with having their medical licenses revoked if they bucked the system and didn't go along with the "official" narrative on "covid"? Of course they were.

Also, financial considerations and keeping your job is a huge motivation. As I mentioned earlier, Big Pharma now effectively controls the "Big Medical Establishment" -- starting at the medical schools and all the way down to even "independent" doctors. The vast majority of doctors are employed by big conglomerates that are controlled by Big Pharma. 90% of modern "medicine" is now doctors writing you a prescription for a Big Pharma pill. That's where the money is. And that's where the control is. The doctors are dependent on Big Pharma money for their livelihood and job.

---

Sooo, ALL of the governments of the world decided to pretend that there was a global pandemic in order to strangle their own economies on purpose, because they are ALL secretly communists? Or are they all just puppets of Big Pharma, an industry whose total earnings are a rounding error compared the the United States GDP? And of course the key to revoking the freedom of peace-loving capitalists everywhere was to force them to wear a mask at Wal-Mart?

So many questions.

Civilized said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

---

You don't think doctors in other countries (in addition to here in the United States) also weren't being threatened with having their medical licenses revoked if they bucked the system and didn't go along with the "official" narrative on "covid"? Of course they were.

Also, financial considerations and keeping your job is a huge motivation. As I mentioned earlier, Big Pharma now effectively controls the "Big Medical Establishment" -- starting at the medical schools and all the way down to even "independent" doctors. The vast majority of doctors are employed by big conglomerates that are controlled by Big Pharma. 90% of modern "medicine" is now doctors writing you a prescription for a Big Pharma pill. That's where the money is. And that's where the control is. The doctors are dependent on Big Pharma money for their livelihood and job.

---

This is what you have to believe for the conspiracy to work so I get why you believe that.

But, no, that's crazy.

---

It's not crazy at all. Doctors were fired from their jobs in other countries for speaking out against government mandates. That wasn't just a USA thing. Keep your head in the sand.

Lockstep with Wendy. Lol.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

You keep moving the goal posts.

Immunity. Prevention. Ineffective.

What's clear is the covid vaccine was sold as something it isn't/wasn't, people continue using outdated "studies" to support it, it did not provide immunity, I don't think it was even preventative, and it's debatable whether it was effective.

There was an old bell curve I posted at the beginning of the pandemic that outlined the way a virus usually works (I can't remember what it was called and google is essentially covid propaganda when you try to search for it) . Covid followed the curve to a T as it hit a region/area, even with all of the vaccines and government interventions. People tried to dismiss it because each area of the country was affected at different times. They wanted a one fix for all of the US/World, but didn't take into account the time it takes to move to different areas.

---

Apparently you'll never understand the concept that a brand new and rapidly evolving virus will cause things like vaccine effectiveness and other guidance to change over time. But putting that aside, I've always struggled with trying to understand what guys like you imagine is actually happening instead. Like why is there a global conspiracy pretending that we have an effective vaccine against a global pandemic?

Can you walk me though exactly how this conspiracy works?

---

Good point.

How it works, or why doctors and scientists around the world unbound by American politics would fall in line and fabricate data showing vaccine effectiveness, a sudden about-face that runs counter to their whole profession.

People respond to incentives. What's the incentive for doctors at scientists around the world that have families themselves and went into this profession to help people to participate in mass scientific fraud?

---

You don't think doctors in other countries (in addition to here in the United States) also weren't being threatened with having their medical licenses revoked if they bucked the system and didn't go along with the "official" narrative on "covid"? Of course they were.

Also, financial considerations and keeping your job is a huge motivation. As I mentioned earlier, Big Pharma now effectively controls the "Big Medical Establishment" -- starting at the medical schools and all the way down to even "independent" doctors. The vast majority of doctors are employed by big conglomerates that are controlled by Big Pharma. 90% of modern "medicine" is now doctors writing you a prescription for a Big Pharma pill. That's where the money is. And that's where the control is. The doctors are dependent on Big Pharma money for their livelihood and job.

---

Sooo, ALL of the governments of the world decided to pretend that there was a global pandemic in order to strangle their own economies on purpose, because they are ALL secretly communists? Or are they all just puppets of Big Pharma, an industry whose total earnings are a rounding error compared the the United States GDP? And of course the key to revoking the freedom of peace-loving capitalists everywhere was to force them to wear a mask at Wal-Mart?

So many questions.

---

"strangle their own economies"

The rich got richer during the pLandemic.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2021/04/30/american-billionaires-have-gotten-12-trillion-richer-during-the-pandemic/?sh=6dd12c56f557

Quote:

---

"Twenty million Americans lost their job in the pandemic," Joe Biden remarked in his Wednesday night address to Congress. "At the same time, roughly 650 billionaires in America saw their net worth increase by more than $1 trillion . . . and they're now worth more than $4 trillion."

That's true, according to Forbes' databut the numbers are actually a bit richer. Total American billionaire wealth stands at $4.6 trillion as of the stock market close on April 28, by our count. That's up 35% from $3.4 trillion when markets opened on January 1, 2020, just as Covid-19 was beginning to take the world by storm.

---

They used the scamdemic to shut down small businesses (driving tens of thousands out of business), all while Wal-Mart and all the other big corporations down with the WEF/Great Reset agenda were allowed to stay open.

They orchestrated the scamdemic, lockdowns, and other "response" to the engineered covid "crisis" to aid and benefit the "elites" WEF/Great Reset agenda. It helped them. It didn't hurt them. Their businesses got to stay open and gain more marketshare, while the small businesses owned by everyday Americans got shut down. They gained trillions in wealth, while the average citizen lost trillions in wealth. It got transferred from the 99% to the 1%.

They set the precedent for vaccine passports -- the foundation for digital ID, and a cashless society with a Chinese (COMMUNIST) style social credit score system in the future. And putting governments all over the world even more trillions in debt (to the international bankers at the top of the NWO hierarchy), also only further entrenches their control and power.