Wayland said:

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Everpack said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Everpack said:

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Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?

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As I said, all students at Wake have to be boosted prior to next semester and they were told to try and get boosted while they were home this past week. My son got his booster last week and had 36 hours of chills and headaches. Same reaction he had when he got vaccinated last March.

I just saw on Twitter that Duke will also require boosters for all students before arriving for the Spring semester. I expect other schools to do the same, but likely not the public universities in NC. I do expect VT and Virginia to require it, since they required vaccinations for this past Fall semester.

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Sorry, I wasn't clear in my question. I want to hear your opinion on requiring young, healthy athletes to get the booster shot. What is the justification of the requirement/mandate?

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Public health and academics run amok.

There is absolutely no justification to boosting healthy young people but no one will stand up to public health.

Boosters should have been used judiciously in severely at-risk populations and that is it.

I am disgusted at our policy makers,, institutions, and public health for continuing forward without any critical thought.

They have allowed fear to dominate reason and have basically become a cult to a fictitious "The Science" and have been completely unable to update their priors at any point in the last two years.

They need to get the **** out of whatever bubble or feedback loop they are stuck in.

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Tell me something I don't know. My wife has/had an old friend that took this **** hook, line and sinker. Late 30's, no health issues and lives in a rural part of WNC. She wouldn't leave the house. Shamed anyone for daring not don a mask. When kids went back to in person school in August 2020, she opted out and kept her kids at home. She pushed grandma out of the way to get her doses of the vaccine and booster. Then, to take the cake, quite literally I might add, she proudly posted pictures on social media of a COVID vaccine cake she had made for her children after their second shots.

You're not going to fix her or those like her. This is their religion.

Mormad said:

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I think both sides are staying pretty rigidly religious about this? At least that is what I've witnessed on the clinal side.

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If wanting to live life is being "rigidly religious," guilty as charged. Maybe I should make a cake to announce it.

packgrad said:

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Quite a big difference in religion when one is trying to impose their religion on to you.

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An important asymmetry, for sure. Anyone who wants to mask/test/boost themselves is more than welcome to until the end of time.

One of my favorite (and simultaniously infuriating) things about reading the coverage of the Omicron variant and the seasonal wave in the northeast is to watch people who have convinced themselves that the seasonal waves in the south were due to stupid rubes in red states not following The Science (TM). They really thought their arbitrary policies and mandates would actually completely stop a highly infectious airborne virus from spreading despite there being no place in the world that has been able to accomplish that, no matter how draconian the measures have been.

The messaging shift we're starting to see is a tacit acknowledgment of something many of us knew over a year ago: politicians can't save you from catching a highly infectious virus and it is not a moral failing of an individual to catch said virus. It sure is fun though watching people who have spent the last year plus treating it as such find these things out the hard way, although I know I should rise above that lol.

New Cooper briefing today.

Telling everyone to 'Get Boosted'.

Mandy putting out the Omicron fear porn.... the SUPER MOST contagious COVID ever.

TheStorm said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Werewolf said:

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Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)

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Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.

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My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.

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This is exactly where I am. I am not taking another mRNA based vaccine… period. I've had some really weird sensations that I've never had before, since I got those shots. Still going to ask my primary about them (my appointment got pushed from just after Thanksgiving to just after Christmas) here shortly when I go to see him.

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Are one of those sensations an occasional "fluttering" in the chest? That's bothered me this year, never noticed it before 2021, and got the jab in April. I did bring it up with my primary but we couldn't rule out another problem for which I've been taking a lot of Tums, also this year. I'm scheduled for a gastro probe next month to see if there's an esophageal problem. Primary didn't seem to concerned about my heart and didn't have any problem with me doing extreme cardio workouts at my age.

Oldsouljer said:

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TheStorm said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Werewolf said:

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Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)

---

Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.

---

My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.

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This is exactly where I am. I am not taking another mRNA based vaccine… period. I've had some really weird sensations that I've never had before, since I got those shots. Still going to ask my primary about them (my appointment got pushed from just after Thanksgiving to just after Christmas) here shortly when I go to see him.

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Are one of those sensations an occasional "fluttering" in the chest? That's bothered me this year, never noticed it before 2021, and got the jab in April. I did bring it up with my primary but we couldn't rule out another problem for which I've been taking a lot of Tums, also this year. I'm scheduled for a gastro probe next month to see if there's an esophageal problem. Primary didn't seem to concerned about my heart and didn't have any problem with me doing extreme cardio workouts at my age.

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I've periodically had that as well, after my 2 bouts of AFIB after my second dose. Not even considering the booster. I don't go back to my primary until March, so I'll wait until then for his evaluation.

Data out of Ontario showing a similar picture w/fully vaccinated case rates approaching those of the unvaccinated.
Again, if vaccines do not have a lasting effect on likelihood to catch or transmit the disease, mandates, especially of the young and healthy, seem hard to justify. pic.twitter.com/RPoVzSvqDa

— Tracy Høeg, MD, PhD (@TracyBethHoeg) December 20, 2021

If Omicron is going to take over in a few weeks, "Everybody Get Boosted *against wild type*" might not be a great message.

You are just going to massively increase vaccine hesitancy when the wild-type booster does jack-**** against Omicron, despite the flailing public health messaging and college mandates that healthy young people should be boosted.

Good thing we didn't follow the clear data from Europe in spring 2020 that schools were fine to open in the fall 2020.

Certainly not going to be any long term consequences of keeping schools closed for over a year.

1 in 6 NC 9th graders didn't make it to 10th grade this fall https://t.co/j9IruiVA9m

— WRAL NEWS in NC (@WRAL) December 21, 2021

May I just say that Davie sir, you are a national treasure to this thread. As someone who has a brother in the medical field and has been pounding me about getting a booster, I'm glad I have some ammo in the gun against him on christmas. I was supposed to get my booster last Friday and decided to hold off. Will continue until other options are available.

Just got a text that New Hanover County is going to re-visit adding back a mask mandate at a meeting in January…..insanity.

Wayland said:

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New Cooper briefing today.

Telling everyone to 'Get Boosted'.

Mandy putting out the Omicron fear porn.... the SUPER MOST contagious COVID ever.

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Only 10 more days until the wicked witch departs.

Ding Dong the witch is dead!!