Coronavirus

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Daviewolf83
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FlossyDFlynt said:

I will say, Ive noticed an uptick on masks at my local Teeter compared to the last few weeks. Im at the point that unless there is a sign on the door, I am going maskless where I can. Ive been vaxxed (sans booster) and at this point, I just dont care. Its not going away, we have vaccines/treatments, its time to just get on with it. If you or your family is at risk, take necessary precautions and get on with your life
This is my approach as well. I am vaccinated and will get boosted when they decide to approve the Novavax vaccine and make it available. If there is a mask-required sign on the door, I wear one. If there is no sign on the door, I do not wear a mask.

Yesterday, I was in an area of the state of NC where masking is not required. I visited a restaurant, a bank, a lawyer's office, and a real estate office and was not required to wear a mask in any of these locations. In fact, no one in any of these locations was wearing a mask. I am still working remotely, so I do not have to wear a mask for my fulltime job. In fact, my company will not have us return to the office, until the town of Morrisville (where my company's offices are located) drops their mask mandate. I do have to wear a mask when I am photographing NC State basketball, so I do wear one at those events.
sf59
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I'm leaning toward doing the same davie.

just waiting for the COVID-Nanoflu combo vax to consolidate and streamline future flu-rona

If I get sick before then, I will just opt for a treatment option
packgrad
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packgrad
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Werewolf
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Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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Repeated vaccinations with the same antigen at short intervals ("booster shots") destabilise the immune system so that autoimmune processes occur. Among other things, antibodies against one's own DNA can be formed, as this work showed:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008382#pone.0008382.s002

We've been warned time after time.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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Will mass vaccination against Omicron give the final blow? | Voice for Science and Solidarity

And we're individually making the decision to vaccinate ourselves and our children for what purpose?
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
ncsupack1
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packgrad said:


I'm sorry but that makes too much since. I also agree with everything that he said.
Mormad
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https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20211216/health-care-spending-in-the-us-topped-4-trillion-in-2020-cms-says
Oldsouljer
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Daviewolf83 said:

FlossyDFlynt said:

I will say, Ive noticed an uptick on masks at my local Teeter compared to the last few weeks. Im at the point that unless there is a sign on the door, I am going maskless where I can. Ive been vaxxed (sans booster) and at this point, I just dont care. Its not going away, we have vaccines/treatments, its time to just get on with it. If you or your family is at risk, take necessary precautions and get on with your life
This is my approach as well. I am vaccinated and will get boosted when they decide to approve the Novavax vaccine and make it available. If there is a mask-required sign on the door, I wear one. If there is no sign on the door, I do not wear a mask.

Yesterday, I was in an area of the state of NC where masking is not required. I visited a restaurant, a bank, a lawyer's office, and a real estate office and was not required to wear a mask in any of these locations. In fact, no one in any of these locations was wearing a mask. I am still working remotely, so I do not have to wear a mask for my fulltime job. In fact, my company will not have us return to the office, until the town of Morrisville (where my company's offices are located) drops their mask mandate. I do have to wear a mask when I am photographing NC State basketball, so I do wear one at those events.

I went to the Angus Barn in Raleigh last night. Also went three months ago when everyone masked until reaching their table, and figured the same would be true last night. To my surprise, aside from staff, better than probably 95% of customers were maskless.
Wayland
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Werewolf said:




Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)



Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.
wilmwolf
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Can you expound on that Wayland?
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Daviewolf83
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Wayland said:

Werewolf said:




Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)



Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.
My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.
Daviewolf83
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A true sign of lunacy is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Maybe we should stop focusing on cases and start focusing on hospitalizations. With Omicron, we will continue to see cases, but I firmly believe they will be decoupled from severe illness, hospitalizations and deaths.

Packchem91
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Daviewolf83 said:

A true sign of lunacy is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Maybe we should stop focusing on cases and start focusing on hospitalizations. With Omicron, we will continue to see cases, but I firmly believe they will be decoupled from severe illness, hospitalizations and deaths.


I'd think business would eventually drive that differentiation -- ie, something like the NFL or other "mover" that finally realizes the archaic policy from a year ago isn't helping save people but is really putting a dent in running a business and decides to make a change for more common sense. IE...if vaccinated and no symptoms, play/work/visit on.

And if Omicron treats the US the way it treated SA, hopefully a more sensible approach will become widespread. But I'm not sure governments will drive that....at least not on average.
TheStorm
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Oldsouljer said:

Daviewolf83 said:

FlossyDFlynt said:

I will say, Ive noticed an uptick on masks at my local Teeter compared to the last few weeks. Im at the point that unless there is a sign on the door, I am going maskless where I can. Ive been vaxxed (sans booster) and at this point, I just dont care. Its not going away, we have vaccines/treatments, its time to just get on with it. If you or your family is at risk, take necessary precautions and get on with your life
This is my approach as well. I am vaccinated and will get boosted when they decide to approve the Novavax vaccine and make it available. If there is a mask-required sign on the door, I wear one. If there is no sign on the door, I do not wear a mask.

Yesterday, I was in an area of the state of NC where masking is not required. I visited a restaurant, a bank, a lawyer's office, and a real estate office and was not required to wear a mask in any of these locations. In fact, no one in any of these locations was wearing a mask. I am still working remotely, so I do not have to wear a mask for my fulltime job. In fact, my company will not have us return to the office, until the town of Morrisville (where my company's offices are located) drops their mask mandate. I do have to wear a mask when I am photographing NC State basketball, so I do wear one at those events.

I went to the Angus Barn in Raleigh last night. Also went three months ago when everyone masked until reaching their table, and figured the same would be true last night. To my surprise, aside from staff, better than probably 95% of customers were maskless.
Most normal people are just sick and tired of the facade. Two years into this now, it is painfully obvious that the masks do NOT prevent transmission of the virus. They are now nothing but props for political theatre and virtue signaling.
TheStorm
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Daviewolf83 said:

Wayland said:

Werewolf said:




Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)



Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.
My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.
This is exactly where I am. I am not taking another mRNA based vaccine… period. I've had some really weird sensations that I've never had before, since I got those shots. Still going to ask my primary about them (my appointment got pushed from just after Thanksgiving to just after Christmas) here shortly when I go to see him.
TheStorm
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PackFansXL said:

How Did SARS-CoV-2 Become So Contagious among Humans So Quickly?

Quote:

CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta's recent book, World War C, where Gupta discusses his conversations with Dr. Robert Redfield, the former CDC director. A subsequent passage lays out even more clearly why the natural spillover theory requires us to believe several unlikely events happened in rapid succession:
Quote:

Redfield finds it implausible, if not impossible, that a virus could jump directly from an animal like a bat or civet cat to a human "and immediately become one of the most infectious, transmissible pathogens known to humanity." He explained to me that it doesn't make sense for a pathogen to go from a wild animal to human and spontaneously be extraordinarily efficient at human-to-human transmission. It takes a while for pathogens to gain that level of fitness, or function. They sputter along for a while as they gain their athleticism to flex their muscles in human hosts. Like [WHO advisor Jamie] Metzl, Redfield finds it more plausible that the virus was being studied and educated in the lab, interacting with human cells the training grounds for superb adaptation before being accidentally unleashed upon the public.

This isn't exactly new news but apparently the corrupt news organization, CNN, is discussing the lab leak theory.
How can it be a "leak" when it was intentional? Serious question.
Mormad
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OAS and ADE aren't exactly novel concepts that were just discovered during this pandemic. I can't speak to due diligence, but the "fear" with these two concepts is that they will paradoxically make disease MORE severe for the vaxxed, and therefore give us reason to "fear" getting vaxxed or somehow feel doomed if we're vaxxed.

Even without knowledge of due diligence, i find solace in the fact that billions of doses of vax have been given in the past year and now just under 50M doses of boosters have been given over a few months. And yet where is the evidence that the vaxxed are suffering from more severe disease? Is it not the vax that has decoupled the cases from the hospitalizations/deaths as Davie has suggested? Is this a direct contradiction to the concept of OSA/ADE thus far?

It is not difficult to find data showing the vaxxed are much less likely to suffer severe disease. Every state has a dashboard. An article i read yesterday used a predictive model to suggest that vaccines have prevented 1.1M deaths and 10.3M hospitalizations. Who knows how accurate that is, but it certainly didn't suggest OSA/ADE are major issues at this point. As of Oct, the unvaxxed were 12x more likely to require hospitalization.

Could they become bigger players with repeated boosters? Maybe. It's definitely a theoretical consideration. But the dz and its 800k deaths isn't theoretical. So for now, and i emphasize for now, i think I'll trust my eyes and hope the vaccines/ boosters continue to prevent more complications than they cause. Could the pendulum swing? Yep. But as Davie has pointed out, viruses want hosts. Typically, they like to evolve into more infectious but less severe forms of themselves. Omicron, to date, seems like it's doing just that.
Mormad
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TheStorm said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Wayland said:

Werewolf said:




Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)



Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.
My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.
This is exactly where I am. I am not taking another mRNA based vaccine… period. I've had some really weird sensations that I've never had before, since I got those shots. Still going to ask my primary about them (my appointment got pushed from just after Thanksgiving to just after Christmas) here shortly when I go to see him.


I'm glad you still trust your pcp and his opinions.
Daviewolf83
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Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

A true sign of lunacy is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Maybe we should stop focusing on cases and start focusing on hospitalizations. With Omicron, we will continue to see cases, but I firmly believe they will be decoupled from severe illness, hospitalizations and deaths.


I'd think business would eventually drive that differentiation -- ie, something like the NFL or other "mover" that finally realizes the archaic policy from a year ago isn't helping save people but is really putting a dent in running a business and decides to make a change for more common sense. IE...if vaccinated and no symptoms, play/work/visit on.

And if Omicron treats the US the way it treated SA, hopefully a more sensible approach will become widespread. But I'm not sure governments will drive that....at least not on average.
I saw this morning that Coach K wants to go back to testing all players, coaches, and staff the day/night before every game this basketball season, regardless of vaccination status. This is the opposite of what the NFL just decided to implement. Coach K is basically saying he wants to return to last year's protocols. If we do, I predict you will see even more game forfeitures and could possibly see restrictions on fan attendance at some games be reinstated. It is starting to feel like 2020 all over again.

As a refresher, during the college football season, only those who were symptomatic were tested, unless you were unvaccinated. Unvaccinated were regularly tested. If you had a close contact with a person with Covid and you were vaccinated, you were not tested and not required to quarantine.

Daviewolf83
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In Denmark, approximately 77% of their population is fully vaccinated. This is why it is now more important to set policies based on hospitalizations and severe illness and NOT cases. When vaccines were introduced, I stated it was time to stop focusing on cases. On Twitter, I argued with people that measuring cases and using them to set health policy was not the right approach, with the availability of vaccines. I have not changed my opinion on this front. The constant focus on cases, when vaccines have helped to decouple cases and hospitalizations and deaths, is not the correct approach from the standpoint of health policy.

wilmwolf
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Coach K is clearly afraid for his own personal health. That's ok, but with it being the case, he should have gone ahead and called it quits. He's the sole reason the ACC tournament was cancelled two seasons ago. Just because he's a legend in the game shouldn't mean that he gets to make medical decisions that affect every team. We know all too well after baseball season that if you start testing vaccinated players, you're going to get positive tests. Forcing teams to forfeit games because asymptomatic, vaccinated players test positive is lunacy.
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Daviewolf83
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A couple of weeks ago (or maybe last week), I posted a reply regarding monoclonal antibodies and one of the reasons their uses is not more widespread and why the Federal government is controlling supply. The Tweet below contains a video that confirms my post. For some reason, the US and the Federal government was not done a great job increasing the supply of monoclonal antibodies.

One monoclonal antibody that has shown better success against Omicron is Sotrovimab and it is in particularly short supply. The Omicron variant has shown to evade many of the monoclonal antibody treatments (just like it is avoiding vaccine and infection induced antibodies), but Sotrovimab has shown to be more successful against this variant. After Thanksgiving, the decision was made to pause regular, bi-weekly shipments of the antibody, in an effort to stockpile supply of this one treatment. You can read more about this particular treatment at the link below:

As the omicron variant threatens to wipe out monoclonal antibodies, the U.S. is saving up one that will still work




Daviewolf83
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wilmwolf80 said:

Coach K is clearly afraid for his own personal health. That's ok, but with it being the case, he should have gone ahead and called it quits. He's the sole reason the ACC tournament was cancelled two seasons ago. Just because he's a legend in the game shouldn't mean that he gets to make medical decisions that affect every team. We know all too well after baseball season that if you start testing vaccinated players, you're going to get positive tests. Forcing teams to forfeit games because asymptomatic, vaccinated players test positive is lunacy.
Duke also tried to cancel football season last year. They are one of the schools that voted to cancel the 2020 ACC season and pushed other schools very hard to do the same. In fact, they wanted to follow the Ivy Leagues lead and cancel all sports in 2020. It is one of the reasons NO fans were allowed to attend any games, including the parents of athletes. They were the only school in the ACC to restrict parents from attending any games.
sf59
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Daviewolf83 said:

Wayland said:

Werewolf said:




Pre-existing humoral immunity to human common cold coronaviruses negatively impacts the protective SARS-CoV-2 antibody response

(https://t.me/LeakyVax/904)Original Antigenic Sin: prior common colds with coronaviruses were supposed to have some protective "back-boost" effect for COVID. This turns out to be just the opposite. In this study it was observed that those who had a high baseline of betacoronavirus antibodies from non-SARS-CoV-2 infections took longer to clear the virus from their system than those with a lower betacoronavirus antibody baseline.

This demonstrates that cross-reactive antibodies that are sub- or non-neutralizing can increase disease severity. This has negative implications for COVID vaccinees as variants continue to evolve away from the immunity they have been imprinted with.

(This finding is of course being used to justify development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine that covers all variants, rather than pausing and reassessing the current strategy.)



Something like OAS has been one of my fears this whole time. Just feel like due diligence is lacking.
My concern regarding repeated boosting, particularly by a mRNA based vaccine is the increased chance of autoimmune disorders. Having a daughter that suffers with an autoimmune disease that hit her in her early twenties, gives me great pause. It is for this reason that I have decided to wait for the Novavax vaccine and not boost with an mRNA based vaccine. I believe there needs to be a lot more research and studies regarding repeated boosting by mRNA vaccines, before boosters are recommended.

I got vaccinated in late April and I believe I am protected from severe illness by T and B-Cells. If I have a breakthrough case (something I consider likely, given Omicron transmissibility), I will utilize some of the latest treatments for Covid-19. This is not 2020, where we had no vaccine and limited treatment options. To treat us like it is still 2020 is mistake and undermines the credibility (what little bit they have left) of the people making healthcare policy. There is too much focus on waning antibodies in the press and by policy makers and not enough emphasis of another key component of our immune system.

Today, The Elf said we have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask, it is not an either/or proposition. He and the other health policy advisors can not make up their minds what works and continue to move the goal posts. Last Spring, the message was get vaccinated and you do not need to mask. After Delta hit, the message became "mask up, since vaccinated people can transmit the virus, so we need to protect others." Now it is vaccines are not very good at keeping you from becoming infected, so you have to wear a mask for an extra level of protection. This is in addition to being boosted. The Elf also said he does not foresee a day when masks will not be required on airplanes. Thank goodness I can drive to all of my son's games next season (yes - he is returning for a sixth season of college football, at the invitation of his head coach).

If my company requires boosting before the Novavax vaccine is approved and available (currently requires full vaccination to stay employed with the company), I will move up my planned retirement this year. I can retire any day I want to, but had planned to work for several more months. I am currently responsible for a large, multimillion dollar project that spans multiple countries and it will not end for another year, but will walk away from it all if necessary.
great post.

the mandates and the repeated boosters are unintelligent

no two ways around it, "one size fits all mandates" are THE reason there are elevated myocarditis instances in the population at large

i am still working on the original moderna studies, but quit the pediatric studies once it became clear that the data from our work would be used to mandate vaccination for kids

with the new treatment options available (and more in the cue) there is really no reason to continue boosting healthy people (especially if the initial "omni-corn" data is true.) The fact that we could be boosting entire populations to protect against a pathogen that most people wont know they have is crackbrained

i don't know fauci personally; i interacted with him several times on the mRNA trials. as you would expect, he's a know it all a$$ hole and is really out of touch with real world treatment. (just for fun, go research fauci's handling of AIDs in the 80's and compare it to his methodology now. spoiler alert! its the same exact mistakes 40 years apart)
Daviewolf83
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Here are my thoughts on where we are today and my path for moving forward with Covid. Sorry for the length, but I had a lot I needed to say.

1. SARS-CoV-2 is endemic. Read that again. SARS-CoV-2 is endemic. It is NEVER going away and we will never DEFEAT it in such a way as to make it go away. Eventually, everyone will become infected by SARS-CoV-2. If you are vaccinated, you should not have a severe case, but do not expect to not become infected.

2. SARS-CoV-2 will continue to mutate in ways that make it more infectious and likely less severe. This happens with most viruses and it is obviously happening with SARS-CoV-2 and the Omicron variant. Viruses will mutate in ways that allow it to evade the body's first line of defense. Past cold viruses evolved in this way and it is why we still become infected with cold viruses today. It is believed some of the coronaviruses we have today began as pandemics and were quite deadly. As people became infected, the viruses mutated and only those with mutations that allowed them to evade the body's first line of defense (antibodies) were successful in spreading. Luckily for us, the human immune system has other methods of fighting the virus, beyond antibodies and these continue to provide protection. It is much more difficult for a virus to mutate in ways to evade all of the body's defenses and you can see this with the common cold. We get sick because the coronavirus (or rhinovirus) has mutated in ways to avoid our first line of defense. They infect us for 7-10 days, since this is how long it takes for the body's immune system to mount an attack and to defeat the infection.

3. The current vaccines are no longer successful in warding off infection and they will continue to become less and less successful in warding off infection. Why? See point 2. Viruses mutate in a way that allows them to eventually evade the body's first line of defense. The vaccines we have today for the SARS-CoV-2 virus are not "neutralizing" vaccines. They are built to produce antibodies that recognize the RNA of the virus - an RNA that is constantly mutating. To create a neutralizing vaccine, you have to target a section of the virus that is slow to mutate (like the Novavax vaccine). The good news is our body's T and B-Cells continue to recognize it has been invaded by the SARS-CoV-2 virus and can mount a defense to fight it. As such, vaccines will continue to help provide protection against severe illness, hospitalization, and death.

4. The vaccines we have today will continue to struggle in providing a first line of defense, no matter how many times we get boosted. If the booster produces the same antibodies and the virus has mutated in such a way as to evade the vaccine induced antibodies, it will be able to infect us. Boosters would have to continue to evolve with the virus to provide additional protection in the long term. We are seeing increasing reports of the Omicron variant infecting people who are fully vaccinated AND boosted. I am not surprised by this and no virologist worth their salt should be surprised by this happening. Viruses mutate and only the ones that can successfully evade a vaccinated person's antibodies will survive.

5. The good news, the body's T and B-Cell defenses should do much better at protecting us against the different variants of SARS-CoV-2. This is why you are seeing people become infected with the Omicron variant, but those infections are less severe. The variant evades the antibodies, but it can not evade the protection provided once the T and B-Cells kick in and ramp up the bodies defenses. It is why people who are vaccinated should have less severe infections than those who are not vaccinated. I will repeat something I posted just last week. I personally know three people who became infected in the past couple of weeks. All were FULLY vaccinated and had also received their boosters. All became infected and all had mild cases.

6. As I have posted before, there is a vaccine (Novavax vaccine) that is finishing up trials and is ready to go through the approval process. This vaccine uses more conventional vaccine technology and it also targets an area of the virus that is less likely to mutate. Reports indicate it has an efficacy of 90% against ALL variants, including the Omicron variant. It needs to get approved as soon as possible and I believe it can become another important weapon to help fight the future variants we are sure to encounter.

7. As I posted last week, there is a new treatment that should be approved soon (Paxlovid from Pfizer) that shows some promise in successfully treating people who have become infected with SARS-CoV-2. Unfortunately, the FDA has NOT scheduled a formal review yet. It is strange to me that they are not moving with rapid pace to get this drug reviewed and approved, since we are faced with a more highly transmittable version of the virus. As I mentioned last week, Paxlovid is a protease inhibitor and as such, it seeks to block the viruses ability to replicate. In clinical trials it has shown to be effective in reducing hospitalization and death by 89%. As I mentioned last week, I am taking a wait and see attitude on how successful it will be in actual use, but the mechanism for how it works appears to be promising. Interestingly, it has the potential to not only block SARS-CoV-2, but other SARS and MERS viruses may also be blocked, since the protease it inhibits is found in these other viruses.

An earlier antiviral drug approved from Merck (Molnupiravir) has shown to be less successful in actual use than it did in clinical trials. Molnupiravir works differently than Paxlovid. It seeks to disrupt replication by mimicking a building block of the virus' genetic material.

8. Given all of this, I believe we are at a point where we must stop focusing on cases and basing health policies and restrictions on cases. Instead, we should be basing policies on severe cases that lead to hospitalization and death. Since we will always see cases and we now have ways to decouple cases from hospitalizations and deaths, it no longer makes sense to worry so much about cases. I applaud the NFL for their recent change in policy with regards to the testing of fully vaccinated and asymptomatic players. If a player is fully vaccinated and asymptomatic, they are not going to be tested. Hopefully the NHL will follow their lead (something I am not sure will happen) and colleges continue to adopt this policy. If they do not, you will see more game cancellations and have the potential for what happened to NC State baseball last year to occur again this year.

9. My son just texted me to tell me they have had to return to wearing masks to condition/lift weights and for all in-person meetings. In my view, this is utterly ridiculous, but they did not ask me for my opinion. It seems like we have not learned anything from last year and no longer trust the vaccines. I will point out that all but 3 of my son's teammates are vaccinated and they all had to get their boosters this past week. Wake will require boosters for all students, staff, and faculty, when they return to campus for the Spring semester.

If you made it this far - thanks for taking the time to read and I hope you have found something that is helpful. You are also free to disagree and challenge what I have written. Unlike The Elf, I welcome critique/criticism/comment and find this is a way we advance understanding.
Everpack
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Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?
Daviewolf83
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Everpack said:

Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?
As I said, all students at Wake have to be boosted prior to next semester and they were told to try and get boosted while they were home this past week. My son got his booster last week and had 36 hours of chills and headaches. Same reaction he had when he got vaccinated last March.

I just saw on Twitter that Duke will also require boosters for all students before arriving for the Spring semester. I expect other schools to do the same, but likely not the public universities in NC. I do expect VT and Virginia to require it, since they required vaccinations for this past Fall semester.
Everpack
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Daviewolf83 said:

Everpack said:

Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?
As I said, all students at Wake have to be boosted prior to next semester and they were told to try and get boosted while they were home this past week. My son got his booster last week and had 36 hours of chills and headaches. Same reaction he had when he got vaccinated last March.

I just saw on Twitter that Duke will also require boosters for all students before arriving for the Spring semester. I expect other schools to do the same, but likely not the public universities in NC. I do expect VT and Virginia to require it, since they required vaccinations for this past Fall semester.


Sorry, I wasn't clear in my question. I want to hear your opinion on requiring young, healthy athletes to get the booster shot. What is the justification of the requirement/mandate?
Wayland
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Everpack said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Everpack said:

Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?
As I said, all students at Wake have to be boosted prior to next semester and they were told to try and get boosted while they were home this past week. My son got his booster last week and had 36 hours of chills and headaches. Same reaction he had when he got vaccinated last March.

I just saw on Twitter that Duke will also require boosters for all students before arriving for the Spring semester. I expect other schools to do the same, but likely not the public universities in NC. I do expect VT and Virginia to require it, since they required vaccinations for this past Fall semester.


Sorry, I wasn't clear in my question. I want to hear your opinion on requiring young, healthy athletes to get the booster shot. What is the justification of the requirement/mandate?

Public health and academics run amok.

There is absolutely no justification to boosting healthy young people but no one will stand up to public health.

Boosters should have been used judiciously in severely at-risk populations and that is it.

I am disgusted at our policy makers,, institutions, and public health for continuing forward without any critical thought.

They have allowed fear to dominate reason and have basically become a cult to a fictitious "The Science" and have been completely unable to update their priors at any point in the last two years.

They need to get the **** out of whatever bubble or feedback loop they are stuck in.

Daviewolf83
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Everpack said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Everpack said:

Regarding your point 9, what is the justification for requiring young and healthy athletes to be boosted? Why, beyond doing something for the sake of doing something, should that demographic be required to take a booster?
As I said, all students at Wake have to be boosted prior to next semester and they were told to try and get boosted while they were home this past week. My son got his booster last week and had 36 hours of chills and headaches. Same reaction he had when he got vaccinated last March.

I just saw on Twitter that Duke will also require boosters for all students before arriving for the Spring semester. I expect other schools to do the same, but likely not the public universities in NC. I do expect VT and Virginia to require it, since they required vaccinations for this past Fall semester.


Sorry, I wasn't clear in my question. I want to hear your opinion on requiring young, healthy athletes to get the booster shot. What is the justification of the requirement/mandate?
My opinion. The people who should get boosted are those in high risk professions (medical field, first responders), the elderly, and those who are immunocompromised (like my daughter) or have health conditions that put them at higher risk. People who are low risk and healthy, should not be getting boosters at this time. Those doses should be provided to countries that have not had a chance to get vaccinated, due to lack of availability.
Mormad
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Heard on fox news business today that the British are estimating 50,000 health care workers could be out of work while infected by Christmas.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-rapid-spread-omicron-england/

Early, but important data. Obviously it'll change over time, but which way?
Daviewolf83
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Mormad said:

Heard on fox news business today that the British are estimating 50,000 health care workers could be out of work while infected by Christmas.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-rapid-spread-omicron-england/

Early, but important data. Obviously it'll change over time, but which way?
I would expect health care workers in the UK to be fully vaccinated and wearing masks. It appears these things do not matter, if people want to believe the study. Since this is based on an Imperial study, I will take the Under.
Mormad
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It appears the coaches at State are asking kids to boost. Most of the swim team has done so. Mine doesn't really want to but i suspect she will. With there being some data that the increased Abs afforded by the boosters reduces relative risk of infection (see my link above as one such example), i think they're just trying to maintain their seasons with the hopeful reduction in risk of a pause that affects the team. I get it i guess. I do know kids are dropping out of world championships because of covid going through the swimmers, some because they're infected and others because they're afraid of becoming infected FWIW.
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