Coronavirus

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Daviewolf83
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I am 61 years old (turn 62 in early January) and have no known health conditions. The only issue I have is the fact I am almost 62 years old. I eat a healthy diet, have no chronic health issues, and have a pretty robust immune system. I have NEVER gotten the flu vaccine and I last had a case of the flu in 1991. The only drugs I take regularly are baby aspirin and Advil when I have a headache or sore muscles. A few weeks ago, I had a wisdom tooth removed (it had broken in half) and the surgeon prescribed an antibiotic, a strong dose of ibuprofen, and hydrocodone. I took a minimal number of the antibiotic prior to surgery (I have some allergies to a couple of antibiotics and am reluctant to take too many antibiotics) and I flushed the hydrocodone down the toilet. The pain would have to be pretty bad to get me to take anything stronger than an over-the-counter pill for pain. As you can tell, I am not a big fan of prescription drugs.

I was vaccinated in early April with the J&J vaccine and had minimal (very slight fever - arm was sore, but not so sore I could not sleep on my side) side-effects. At this point, I will consider getting a booster next April. I believe the immunity I received is robust and will last for years. I do have concerns about repeated vaccination, especially spaced so closely to previous vaccinations and this is part of why I am planning to wait one year. I do believe vaccines are the better way to acquire immunity, due the lower risk of hospitalization and death. I also have read multiple studies that demonstrate immunity through infection is also effective in preventing severe complications in the future. In my opinion, immunity through infection should be considered equivalent to vaccination when discussing health policy, but in the US, it seems to be something most of our health policy leaders and politicians have chosen to ignore. It is considered equivalent in other countries, including the EU. I am fundamentally opposed to the vaccine mandates being forced on us by the government and believe it is the wrong policy.

For the past year and a half-plus, I have worked from home. Even though I work from home, my wife does go to work outside of the house daily (has since the pandemic began), so I am susceptible to contracting the virus from her. I eat out in restaurants 3-4 times a week and have no issues eating indoors. I have attended multiple sporting events, indoors and outdoors. I have not worn a mask for any outdoor events, including the football games I photographed for this website. I wore a mask indoors to photograph basketball this week and when in the press box for football. I did so, since it was required.

I did have to wear a mask to attend my son's game at Syracuse - also had to present proof of vaccination to attend the game. Other than my Uber ride from the airport, the game at Syracuse as the only time I wore a mask while in Syracuse. All restaurants only required a mask if you were unvaccinated, but it was on the honor system. I did have to wear a mask when flying to and from Syracuse. For the game at Army two weeks ago, I only wore a mask on the shuttle bus on campus and a bus my wife and I took when we toured West Point. No other locations required a mask and the restaurant we ate in the first night in Suffern, NY did not require a mask to enter.

My view - I am vaccinated and have some protection against severe Covid. Could I still get infected? Yes. In fact, I believe at some point, we will all become infected with Covid. It is as prevalent as the common cold and it is easily transmitted in indoor environments. In outdoor environments, it is extremely difficult for the virus to be transmitted and multiple studies recently have demonstrated this fact. Look at all of the football games this Fall. Even with huge crowds, cases have continued to fall. I have said this before and I will say it again - if you have not been previously infected with Covid, you should consider being vaccinated. If you are vaccinated or have been previously infected, you should live your life as normally as possible.
PackFansXL
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I recall reading several twitter posts from a female Indian doctor stating we don't need boosters. Our immune systems will generate antibodies if we are exposed and will combat a new infection with typical responses being very minor symptoms.

My recollection of those posts was the T-Cells recognize the virus and produce antibodies. More T-Cells means more antibodies to fight the invader. As we age we lose T-Cells and this explains why the elderly are at greater risk. I don't recall the articles stating this, but I am inferring that shortly after getting the vaccine, our immune systems have produced a bunch of antibodies against the virus. Over time those antibodies diminish but the T-Cells don't have trouble recognizing the virus and reproducing antibodies with new exposures. The effectiveness of a booster should be greatest for those with the fewest T-Cells but everyone would get a short term burst of antibodies that would fight off infection for several weeks to months. Actually having COVID should produce short term antibodies as well and should be at least as effective in long term protection as the vaccine.

If this understanding is correct, it seems only the elderly and immunocompromised folks should be eagerly pursuing the booster. I suppose if one is frequently exposed to the virus and wants to avoid even minor responses, then a booster might be a good choice. That comment assumes a short term boost in antibodies blocks all symptoms and/or prevents infection.

I would appreciate comments to clarify or correct my post from those in the medical community.
TheStorm
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As of right now, I'm not planning to get a booster shot either... doesn't appear to be necessary if I am being totally honest.
dogplasma
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My booster analogy is to compare it to someone offering to upgrade your standard brakes to ceramic brakes for free while you wait. The vast majority of the time your regular brakes do just fine, but if an upgrade is available and free, why on earth not do it in case you're in a situation where it helps?
packgrad
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Because some people might see it like an unnecessary computer upgrade that crashes your system.
wilmwolf
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dogplasma said:

My booster analogy is to compare it to someone offering to upgrade your standard brakes to ceramic brakes for free while you wait. The vast majority of the time your regular brakes do just fine, but if an upgrade is available and free, why on earth not do it in case you're in a situation where it helps?


But using your analogy, we don't know if he upgraded brakes really work better than your regular breaks, because the government said that upgraded brakes were required before the NTSB had a chance to completely study if the new updated brakes actually did what they were supposed to. So while the upgraded brakes may work as advertised, and probably at worst don't hurt, it's easy to see why some people would rather stick with the brakes they have for now that are working fine. Of course, I'm a person that doesn't buy a car the first year a model changes because I'd rather they get the kinks worked out

I go back to what my doctor told me earlier this year, don't listen to politicians or CEOs when it comes to boosters. Listen to the scientists and medical professionals. When I get to a point that I'm satisfied those individuals truly believe it's in my best interest to get a booster, and aren't just voting yes because that's what they think they have to do, I will schedule the appointment.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
statefan91
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wilmwolf80 said:

dogplasma said:

My booster analogy is to compare it to someone offering to upgrade your standard brakes to ceramic brakes for free while you wait. The vast majority of the time your regular brakes do just fine, but if an upgrade is available and free, why on earth not do it in case you're in a situation where it helps?


But using your analogy, we don't know if he upgraded brakes really work better than your regular breaks, because the government said that upgraded brakes were required before the NTSB had a chance to completely study if the new updated brakes actually did what they were supposed to. So while the upgraded brakes may work as advertised, and probably at worst don't hurt, it's easy to see why some people would rather stick with the brakes they have for now that are working fine. Of course, I'm a person that doesn't buy a car the first year a model changes because I'd rather they get the kinks worked out

I go back to what my doctor told me earlier this year, don't listen to politicians or CEOs when it comes to boosters. Listen to the scientists and medical professionals. When I get to a point that I'm satisfied those individuals truly believe it's in my best interest to get a booster, and aren't just voting yes because that's what they think they have to do, I will schedule the appointment.
In your analogy, the NTSB approved your regular brakes and upgraded brakes so it's not like the governing body is different. This is more like adding new brake pads to the existing brakes that have some wear on them.
Wayland
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statefan91 said:

wilmwolf80 said:

dogplasma said:

My booster analogy is to compare it to someone offering to upgrade your standard brakes to ceramic brakes for free while you wait. The vast majority of the time your regular brakes do just fine, but if an upgrade is available and free, why on earth not do it in case you're in a situation where it helps?


But using your analogy, we don't know if he upgraded brakes really work better than your regular breaks, because the government said that upgraded brakes were required before the NTSB had a chance to completely study if the new updated brakes actually did what they were supposed to. So while the upgraded brakes may work as advertised, and probably at worst don't hurt, it's easy to see why some people would rather stick with the brakes they have for now that are working fine. Of course, I'm a person that doesn't buy a car the first year a model changes because I'd rather they get the kinks worked out

I go back to what my doctor told me earlier this year, don't listen to politicians or CEOs when it comes to boosters. Listen to the scientists and medical professionals. When I get to a point that I'm satisfied those individuals truly believe it's in my best interest to get a booster, and aren't just voting yes because that's what they think they have to do, I will schedule the appointment.
In your analogy, the NTSB approved your regular brakes and upgraded brakes so it's not like the governing body is different. This is more like adding new brake pads to the existing brakes that have some wear on them.
The NTSB advisory board said that certain older model and high performance cars may benefit from the new brakes but really there isn't good data but it could make a short term difference AND new brakes were probably unnecessary for most cars.

At which point the politically appointed head of the NTSB broke from the advisory council's opinion and questions of need and efficacy and become Oprah:

"You get new brakes!!! You get new brakes!!! You get new brakes!!!"
PackFansXL
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statefan91 said:

wilmwolf80 said:

dogplasma said:

My booster analogy is to compare it to someone offering to upgrade your standard brakes to ceramic brakes for free while you wait. The vast majority of the time your regular brakes do just fine, but if an upgrade is available and free, why on earth not do it in case you're in a situation where it helps?


But using your analogy, we don't know if he upgraded brakes really work better than your regular breaks, because the government said that upgraded brakes were required before the NTSB had a chance to completely study if the new updated brakes actually did what they were supposed to. So while the upgraded brakes may work as advertised, and probably at worst don't hurt, it's easy to see why some people would rather stick with the brakes they have for now that are working fine. Of course, I'm a person that doesn't buy a car the first year a model changes because I'd rather they get the kinks worked out

I go back to what my doctor told me earlier this year, don't listen to politicians or CEOs when it comes to boosters. Listen to the scientists and medical professionals. When I get to a point that I'm satisfied those individuals truly believe it's in my best interest to get a booster, and aren't just voting yes because that's what they think they have to do, I will schedule the appointment.
In your analogy, the NTSB approved your regular brakes and upgraded brakes so it's not like the governing body is different. This is more like adding new brake pads to the existing brakes that have some wear on them.
If you add the caveat that occasionally the new brake pads completely disintegrate for few understood reasons, then you have a more applicable analogy.
dogplasma
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Lol! Okay, so not a perfect analogy. Maybe there's no official number for booster efficaCy but I think medical science understands vaccines and antibodies well enough by now to feel pretty confident that a booster is going to have some positive effect. Initial reports had the J&J plus Moderna mix increasing antibodies by many times. And worst case, you just end up with a new set of brakes.

People who get keyed up over side effect probabilities from vaccines that nearly half the population of planet earth have now had must really lose sleep over riding in cars or eating a regular diet of McDonald's combo meals.

This is just my own take on booster shots. Someone asked so I gave my opinion. I'm all in favor, some are not. Do what you think is right for yourself.
ncsualum05
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statefan91 said:

ncsualum05 said:

wolfman18 said:

I've been debating the booster, my doc just regurgitates the CDC line and recommends I should.

I'm 28, pretty healthy. I'm in sales so I meet a lot of people, so that's the reason I was considering it. I got the Pfizer vaccine and my second shot was April 2nd.

Anyone here have any thoughts?


I got Pfizer back in April as well. I wouldn't get a booster. I'm about to wrap up a little fight with Rona right now. She's a ***** but all the booster you ever need. If young and healthy don't worry about another booster. The original vaccine didn't prevent me from getting pretty sick for a couple days. But I'd rather do that than a booster which is probably less effective.
If anything it would seem your experience with it would be more reason to get a booster?
No. My experience sucked for a few days. The frustration stems out of isolating from family and not helping with the kids. I've actually already recovered but still positive and having to isolate. My worst days were Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues. After that it's been boredom. But I've had colds and flus similar. I'm healthy and have no immune issues. I was trying to convey to the young healthy poster that my experience I wouldn't worry about the booster. Boosters are for people that could be in real danger from this virus.
wolfman18
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Thanks for all the responses.

I'll preface by saying I already had the shot scheduled for this afternoon. I got nervous this morning thinking about it. At the end of the day, my mother has lupus, my father has had 2 heart attacks, and my brother is also immunocompromised.

While I have no known issues, I still decided to go forward with the booster. Feeling fine so far.

Again, thanks for the responses...I did see them throughout the day.
Mormad
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Yep. There can be many reasons a healthy 28 yo should consider getting the booster. Thanks for the update.
packgrad
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Mormad said:

Yep. There can be many reasons a healthy 28 yo should consider getting the booster. Thanks for the update.


How does him getting the booster protect those family members?
Mormad
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PackFansXL said:

I recall reading several twitter posts from a female Indian doctor stating we don't need boosters. Our immune systems will generate antibodies if we are exposed and will combat a new infection with typical responses being very minor symptoms.

My recollection of those posts was the T-Cells recognize the virus and produce antibodies. More T-Cells means more antibodies to fight the invader. As we age we lose T-Cells and this explains why the elderly are at greater risk. I don't recall the articles stating this, but I am inferring that shortly after getting the vaccine, our immune systems have produced a bunch of antibodies against the virus. Over time those antibodies diminish but the T-Cells don't have trouble recognizing the virus and reproducing antibodies with new exposures. The effectiveness of a booster should be greatest for those with the fewest T-Cells but everyone would get a short term burst of antibodies that would fight off infection for several weeks to months. Actually having COVID should produce short term antibodies as well and should be at least as effective in long term protection as the vaccine.

If this understanding is correct, it seems only the elderly and immunocompromised folks should be eagerly pursuing the booster. I suppose if one is frequently exposed to the virus and wants to avoid even minor responses, then a booster might be a good choice. That comment assumes a short term boost in antibodies blocks all symptoms and/or prevents infection.

I would appreciate comments to clarify or correct my post from those in the medical community.


That's pretty good, bud.

Quick points: the doctor you mention didn't publicly endorse shots for teens, but had her own teen vaxxed, and I'd bet my left nut she got the booster. Every ID doc i know is pro-vax and pro-booster, and they are for a reason. I think it's important to keep in mind what the experts in infectious disease do for themselves when trying to make decisions regarding potential mitigating factors for yourself and your family.

Memory B and T cells are great, but they take time to produce Abs (antibodies) once exposed to antigen (virus). With a big enough viral exposure/load, you may get infected before the Abs are produced in enough numbers to kill virus. The memory cells will then likely reduce viral load to reduce disease severity, viral shedding, and length of infection. With smaller, shorter duration exposures, having immunity thru memory cells and Abs reduce your risk of infection and disease. With bigger/ longer duration exposures, viral load will overwhelme acquired immunity and infect cells.

Having circulating Abs at the time of exposure can reduce your likelihood of infection or disease by destroying the initial viral load before replication in cells.

Since Abs have been shown to wane over time (and since even anti-vaxxers want to think mAbs are a viable alternative), then it's not unreasonable to think that boosters that increase circulating Ab titers probably reduce your risk of infection and/or severe disease by working immediately upon exposure without the delay of T cells.
PackFansXL
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Thanks for the clarification, Mormad.

Do we know how long the antibodies boost should last?
Mormad
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Not that i know of. Too soon to know i guess. For now, I'd guess a few months.
Werewolf
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VANDEN BOSSCHE & MALONE: COVID-19 GIANTS UNITE (*****ute.com)


TheStorm
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Mormad said:

Not that i know of. Too soon to know i guess. For now, I'd guess a few months.
If an individual with a historically strong immune system and in very good overall health has been fully immunized and decides to get the booster, can that negatively affect their "natural" immune system and instead make them become more dependent on future boosters? Totally serious question, because that's where I am with it right now.

I honestly doubt that I ever needed (as an individual) to get immunized to begin with as I (like many others here) went 14 months with covid "all around us everywhere" supposedly without experiencing as much as a sniffle.
Mormad
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I personally don't believe that to be a concern.
packgrad
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Sad that this would even be needed, but with today's virus cult it is necessary. I'm sure the left will push against it.

caryking
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TheStorm said:

As of right now, I'm not planning to get a booster shot either... doesn't appear to be necessary if I am being totally honest.
Merck to the rescue!!!

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/britain-approves-mercks-oral-covid-19-pill-2021-11-04/

This will become my booster.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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Werewolf said:


VANDEN BOSSCHE & MALONE: COVID-19 GIANTS UNITE (*****ute.com)



Be careful quoting Malone. According to some, he's a quack!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Werewolf
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caryking said:

Werewolf said:


VANDEN BOSSCHE & MALONE: COVID-19 GIANTS UNITE (*****ute.com)



Be careful quoting Malone. According to some, he's a quack!!!
For sure, if you've jumped in that boat, you don't want to look down at the hole in the bottom. What I take from the discussion is that ZERO children and young people should ever take this LIQUID in the arm and all unvaccinated adults should hold the line and not take it. Our only chance is herd immunity and his is best done by maintaining the maximum # of unvaccinated possible. The human species is at risk with the global vaccination effort being forced by authorities.
TheStorm
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Mormad said:

I personally don't believe that to be a concern.
Did you get your *first* booster yet? I know as of recently, you were still somewhat "on the fence" about it, if I remember correctly...
bigeric
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What happens to the Abs?
Do they have a half-life?
Change in some fashion that causes the body to eliminate them?
Like I said, if you cant get hyped for the Carolina game, why are you here?
-Earl Wolff-
wilmwolf
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With Britain approving the treatment pill, it made me wonder, does anyone know what they are doing regarding boosters? It seems that we here in the US pretty much ignore what the rest of the world is doing for the most part when it comes to covid, just wondering what their stance on boosters is. It feels to me, not saying that it is really the case, but it feels kinda like the US going in hard on boosters has pushed the idea of therapeutics to the back burner, just wondering aloud if that's the case.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
Cthepack
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wilmwolf80 said:

With Britain approving the treatment pill, it made me wonder, does anyone know what they are doing regarding boosters? It seems that we here in the US pretty much ignore what the rest of the world is doing for the most part when it comes to covid, just wondering what their stance on boosters is. It feels to me, not saying that it is really the case, but it feels kinda like the US going in hard on boosters has pushed the idea of therapeutics to the back burner, just wondering aloud if that's the case.


They give boosters in the UK.
packgrad
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UK approach to boosters.

"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
  • everyone over 50
  • people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
  • people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
  • frontline health and social care workers"
packgrad
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Another treatment likely coming to market. There is zero reason for mandates. Open everything up.

Mormad
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TheStorm said:

Mormad said:

I personally don't believe that to be a concern.
Did you get your *first* booster yet? I know as of recently, you were still somewhat "on the fence" about it, if I remember correctly...


Nope. Not yet. I suspect at some point I'll choose to get it. We'll see.
Mormad
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wilmwolf80 said:

With Britain approving the treatment pill, it made me wonder, does anyone know what they are doing regarding boosters? It seems that we here in the US pretty much ignore what the rest of the world is doing for the most part when it comes to covid, just wondering what their stance on boosters is. It feels to me, not saying that it is really the case, but it feels kinda like the US going in hard on boosters has pushed the idea of therapeutics to the back burner, just wondering aloud if that's the case.


I'm not sure the presence of therapeutics should change the need for prevention? Using HIV as an example: there are great therapeutics now that can lower viral load to undetectable numbers and prevent AIDS. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to take measures to avoid getting HIV altogether.

From a purely medical perspective, therapeutics are NOT being ignored or pushed aside. They're being used every single day. There are protocols for both outpatient and inpatient management of covid patients, with a reasonably broad set of options to be used at the discretion of the provider.

I'm glad IF i get covid there will be options for therapeutics, but my goal will always be to prevent infection first. I don't know what less predictable ways infection will affect my personal life, but I'm not happy about the very predictable ways infection will affect me. So i prefer prevention for me and my loved ones. My best buddy prefers infection, and that's cool. Just not what i choose.
Mormad
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packgrad said:

UK approach to boosters.

"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
  • everyone over 50
  • people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
  • people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
  • frontline health and social care workers"



Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.

42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.

So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
caryking
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packgrad said:

Another treatment likely coming to market. There is zero reason for mandates. Open everything up.




How much you want to bet that the Phizer pill gets approval before the Merck?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Wayland
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Mormad said:

packgrad said:

UK approach to boosters.

"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
  • everyone over 50
  • people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
  • people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
  • frontline health and social care workers"



Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.

42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.

So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?

The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).

I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.

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