Coronavirus

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Daviewolf83
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Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.
Wayland
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Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.
Also denies seasonality.

But, it is a shame to not talk stats today... and to not address the next order when this one ends in just over 24 hours.

The unlimited EOs need to end. It is an abuse of power.
wilmwolf80
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Wayland said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.
Also denies seasonality.

But, it is a shame to not talk stats today... and to not address the next order when this one ends in just over 24 hours.

The unlimited EOs need to end. It is an abuse of power.


Somewhere five thousand posts ago, I said that when all this over, I hope someone, somewhere gives a serious look at how this power was applied. I doubt it will happen, but I still feel like it should.
Just A Guy
Wayland
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wilmwolf80 said:

Wayland said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.
Also denies seasonality.

But, it is a shame to not talk stats today... and to not address the next order when this one ends in just over 24 hours.

The unlimited EOs need to end. It is an abuse of power.


Somewhere five thousand posts ago, I said that when all this over, I hope someone, somewhere gives a serious look at how this power was applied. I doubt it will happen, but I still feel like it should.
I mean, I said he was abusing his power a year ago. It doesn't matter if his intentions are pure of heart, you can't run an emergency in perpetuity.

There has been PLENTY of time in the last 15 months to gather additional input and not rule things by EO alone.

At this point, our current emergency is over. It is certainly possible there is another surge.

But hospitals ARE NOT and have never been overwhelmed. Vaccines are freely available for those that choose them. Cases and deaths at a 14 month low.

This is purely abuse of power at this point. Fear is not justification of these orders. Sadly there will continue to be deaths from COVID19 in perpetuity, just as there are from other endemic respiratory viruses. That is not an emergency, it is a sad fact of life.
TheStorm
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Is anybody even paying any attention anymore?
statefan91
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TheStorm said:

Is anybody even paying any attention anymore?
Doesn't seem like it - except daycares. Most stores I go into now have moved mask requirement to vaccinated customers, same with movie theaters. Daycare still requires my 5 yr old to wear a mask inside but can take off outside.

Had first day back in sanctuary last Sunday and we wore masks inside but they didn't cap capacity.
packgrad
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My wife's school still requires the kids to wear them outside. She is going to teach summer school this year (Covid money made it worth while). The kids are still required to wear them outside this summer. Madness.

Ideally Cooper's supporters would push back on him about this. Unfortunately it's all about teams these days. Its never been about science.
Wayland
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TheStorm said:

Is anybody even paying any attention anymore?
Now that schools out for my kid. Nope.

We had summer swim time trials this week, and all was right with the world on the pool deck.
Civilized
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packgrad said:

My wife's school still requires the kids to wear them outside. She is going to teach summer school this year (Covid money made it worth while). The kids are still required to wear them outside this summer. Madness.

Ideally Cooper's supporters would push back on him about this. Unfortunately it's all about teams these days. Its never been about science.

COVID summer school money is bonkers. My wife is considering splitting a session or two with another teacher.

Would be curious to get Mormad's take on masking at school for kids (inside or out) to see what he thinks a reasonable benchmark is for not masking in that environment.

Should we be allowing vaccinated kids to take off their masks in schools?

Should we be dropping outdoor mask requirements altogether?

I think so, but I'm curious how he/we would articulate that from a public health or risk perspective.

I think I read the data was showing that outdoor environments were around 20x less transmissive than indoor, on the same order of magnitude as vaccine protection.

If we're not allowing vaccinated kids to remove their masks, it seems consistent to not allow kids to unmask outside either (to be clear I'm not advocating this position, just pointing out the seeming similarity of risk).
BBW12OG
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Anyone at this point wearing a mask who is vaccinated, AND ISN'T IMMUNE SYSTEM COMPROMISED, is a complete political tool.

EDITED TO ADD: If you are a member of a family that has an IMMUNE SYSTEM COMPROMISED member then it's acceptable and I am sure that you have been wearing masks way before Covid anyway so it isn't something new to see you and your family wearing them in public.

Just wanted to clarify that before the "holier than thou" group piles on again.

Also Cooper is placating for higher political office. He is goose stepping the SOCIALIST PARTY line. That is obvious with his decision making today. He's doing his best to out stupid Wicked Witch Whitmer.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
packofwolves
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What does it matter if someone continues to wear a mask? It's a personal choice and does not impact anyone else. I don't care, everyone has a right to choose for themselves.

I do have a family member who was a breakthrough case at 5 weeks after 2nd vaccine. They were very sick with covid for weeks. So it does happen.
Daviewolf83
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

My wife's school still requires the kids to wear them outside. She is going to teach summer school this year (Covid money made it worth while). The kids are still required to wear them outside this summer. Madness.

Ideally Cooper's supporters would push back on him about this. Unfortunately it's all about teams these days. Its never been about science.

COVID summer school money is bonkers. My wife is considering splitting a session or two with another teacher.

Would be curious to get Mormad's take on masking at school for kids (inside or out) to see what he thinks a reasonable benchmark is for not masking in that environment.

Should we be allowing vaccinated kids to take off their masks in schools?

Should we be dropping outdoor mask requirements altogether?

I think so, but I'm curious how he/we would articulate that from a public health or risk perspective.

I think I read the data was showing that outdoor environments were around 20x less transmissive than indoor, on the same order of magnitude as vaccine protection.

If we're not allowing vaccinated kids to remove their masks, it seems consistent to not allow kids to unmask outside either (to be clear I'm not advocating this position, just pointing out the seeming similarity of risk).

There was an op-ed in the NY Times a couple of days ago by a couple of infectious disease doctors I follow (one - Dr. Monica Gandhi) is someone I have pointed to in the past. I am posting a link to it below. She mentioned in a Twitter comment (yesterday I think) that 47 of the states currently meet their guidelines for removing masks on kids in schools now. Their recommendations are based on levels of community spread and adult vaccination rates.



I also saw a report today out of San Francisco regarding Learning Centers that sprung up throughout the city when the teachers refused to return to the classroom. As many may know, San Francisco schools have been one of the worst in returning kids to schools (ie., they didn't). In this study, they pointed out there was no documented transmission of Covid among students, even though 1/3 were maskless and ~50% were distanced. Also, only one adult-to-adult transmission, despite high community spread at the time.



As to kids outdoors - both vaccinated and unvaccinated can play sports now, outside and are not required to wear a mask. If this is the case, I see no reason why kids (vaccinated or not) must wear a mask outdoors. I personally agree with Dr. Gandhi and believe kids should not be wearing a mask in classrooms either. The transmission between kids is lower than other age groups and the teachers/adults in the classrooms should be vaccinated. If they are not, they can wear a mask.
IseWolf22
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statefan91 said:

TheStorm said:

Is anybody even paying any attention anymore?
Doesn't seem like it - except daycares. Most stores I go into now have moved mask requirement to vaccinated customers, same with movie theaters. Daycare still requires my 5 yr old to wear a mask inside but can take off outside.

Had first day back in sanctuary last Sunday and we wore masks inside but they didn't cap capacity.
Yep, picking up my kid at daycare is the only time I'm wearing it now. They haven't given any indication when they are going to relax that.
Packchem91
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IseWolf22 said:

statefan91 said:

TheStorm said:

Is anybody even paying any attention anymore?
Doesn't seem like it - except daycares. Most stores I go into now have moved mask requirement to vaccinated customers, same with movie theaters. Daycare still requires my 5 yr old to wear a mask inside but can take off outside.

Had first day back in sanctuary last Sunday and we wore masks inside but they didn't cap capacity.
Yep, picking up my kid at daycare is the only time I'm wearing it now. They haven't given any indication when they are going to relax that.


I worked in the nursery of my church (big church, we had 10 babies in the 6 -12 mos range on my Sundays)and I wore it then.

And to two different doctors / PT offices. Other than that, most everywhere the past couple weeks have had no requirements. Carry it with me, and would put it on if some company asked
Packchem91
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Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.


So what exactly do these EOs cover now? Hospital capacity is pretty much as open as it has been , is it not?

I bet Brett Jensen won't be called on at the presser to ask!
Daviewolf83
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Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.


So what exactly do these EOs cover now? Hospital capacity is pretty much as open as it has been , is it not?
Cooper would not say. Reporters asked and he said they have to wait until tomorrow. My assumption is he did not want to take direct questions on it, so he was deferring to tomorrow. Otherwise, why not say what would be included today.
Wayland
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Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.




So what exactly do these EOs cover now? Hospital capacity is pretty much as open as it has been , is it not?

I bet Brett Jensen won't be called on at the presser to ask!


Until children are free of ANY AND ALL restrictions, then they cover too much.
Packchem91
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Daviewolf83 said:

Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.


So what exactly do these EOs cover now? Hospital capacity is pretty much as open as it has been , is it not?
Cooper would not say. Reporters asked and he said they have to wait until tomorrow. My assumption is he did not want to take direct questions on it, so he was deferring to tomorrow. Otherwise, why not say what would be included today.


Yeah, that's crappy politician mode, right there
Wayland
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Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Packchem91 said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Another executive order coming out tomorrow. Sounds like the state of emergency is not ending - Cooper wrongly claims it allows NC to draw federal funds. Cooper will not share until tomorrow.


So what exactly do these EOs cover now? Hospital capacity is pretty much as open as it has been , is it not?
Cooper would not say. Reporters asked and he said they have to wait until tomorrow. My assumption is he did not want to take direct questions on it, so he was deferring to tomorrow. Otherwise, why not say what would be included today.


Yeah, that's crappy politician mode, right there
I still think he legitimately doesn't know what is in it yet. Either it isn't decided fully or he hasn't gotten the full marching orders on it.

No one believes he is actually writing these things, right? He just signs the bottom. I doubt he even fully reads most of them. The last one had 47 "WHEREAS" paragraphs before getting to the order.

Central office writes the orders.
Civilized
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You're like damn Batman on this thread; the bat-signal goes up when somebody has a question and you come swooping in with on-point data/input/info.

Thanks as always Davie, really interesting info.

The data seems compelling enough now; summer school aside, there shouldn't be any reason to be masking outside (or even inside, probably) in the fall.

The sports comparison is a great one. In fall ball last Oct/Nov, we weren't masking on-field (ever) and only masked in the dugout. This season, no masks anywhere.

What's different about that risk profile than being on the playground? Nothing.
TheStorm
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And never was it was about Trump!!!!!
Wayland
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Reading through some of the junk in the EO.

This one is a beaut.

Quote:

WHEREAS, if the state's COVID-19 case rate increases, if the state's vaccination rate slows, or if new evidence arises regarding the risks of COVID-19 and its variants, it may be necessary to reevaluate whether additional restrictions are necessary to reduce the risk of death and serious illness from COVID-19;

So basically, EOs are forever justified since POTENTIALLY additional restrictions may be necessary, if anything bad ever happens.

OOOOOOO K? Is that really how this works?
TheStorm
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He's a Democrat he HAS to do that (as totally ridiculous as it is). It's a job requirement for him and he gladly "obliges"
PackPA2015
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Different topic, but I finally found the time to read over the new study featuring hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. It has not been peer-reviewed at this point.

This was a systematic review and meta-analysis of COVID cases at St. Barnabas Medical Center in NJ. They, then narrowed this subset of patients to those requiring invasive mechanical ventilation.

By discharge or by day 90, 78.2% of this subset of patients had died. Most common pre-existing conditions were high BP, diabetes, and obesity. An increase in age increased risk of death.

Now, the study did find that higher doses of hydroxychloroquine (>3 grams) with higher doses of azithromycin (>1 gram) in critically ill COVID patients on a ventilator increased survival rate pretty significantly. Their theory is that it takes higher doses of those medications together to change the pH of lysosomes and thus make a cell harder to infect. It takes higher doses and time to accumulate these medications in the lung and respiratory tract tissues.

Survival of the critically ill did improve slightly with HCQ alone, but was much improved with both medications together. We still do not have any substantial evidence that the medications benefit non-ventilator dependent COVID patients.
RunsWithWolves26
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On the CDC website under daily cases, they added a block that says historic cases. Could someone explain to me exactly what that is meant to represent? Thanks.
BBW12OG
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Short version.... President Trump was correct when he said "Hydroxychloroquine, when taken with supplemental drugs, will help at risk patients..."

Wow...just wow... the level the MSM and the lefties went to in order to win.

PA... How many lives could have been saved if the physicians would have done this 15 months ago?
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
Wayland
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RunsWithWolves26 said:

On the CDC website under daily cases, they added a block that says historic cases. Could someone explain to me exactly what that is meant to represent? Thanks.


Will have to check it out. Maybe a way to handle backlog? Cases reported today that are more than a few weeks old.

I noticed a few days ago NC had over 100 months old cases added to the date of specimen collection that didn't actually get reported in the new daily total. Will have to check it out.
BBW12OG
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Quote:

"Historical cases are excluded from daily new cases and 7-day average calculations until they are incorporated into the dataset for the applicable date. Of 71,176 historical cases reported retroactively, 1 was reported in the current week and none were reported in the prior week."
CDC website.... took 5 seconds...
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002
TheStorm
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Please don't start all that up again today...
PackPA2015
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BBW12OG said:

Short version.... President Trump was correct when he said "Hydroxychloroquine, when taken with supplemental drugs, will help at risk patients..."

Wow...just wow... the level the MSM and the lefties went to in order to win.

PA... How many lives could have been saved if the physicians would have done this 15 months ago?
Depends on which quote from Trump you use. At one point, he did discuss that those 2 medications together could save lives or help severe patients. That is correct. He also mentioned that first responders, doctors, nurses, etc. should start taking it preventatively when they go into hospitals. That is incorrect. So some truth, some not so true. He said a whole bunch about HCQ in multiple press conferences.

As far as how many lives it could have saved. It is very difficult to say. Obviously, this study was performed in a hospital in the early months of the pandemic, so it was being used. We did know from other studies that these 2 medicines work in severe COVID, so a lot of systems were using it. Our infectious disease director of our hospital system was using it with severe COVID patients. Our local hospital system (that does not own our clinic) was using the 2 together. Obviously, I can't answer that question for all hospital systems, but for all of the ones that I know about, they were already using HCQ and azithromycin together for COVID patients who were hospitalized and failing more conservative therapies.
RunsWithWolves26
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Thanks Wayland
Daviewolf83
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PackPA2015 said:

BBW12OG said:

Short version.... President Trump was correct when he said "Hydroxychloroquine, when taken with supplemental drugs, will help at risk patients..."

Wow...just wow... the level the MSM and the lefties went to in order to win.

PA... How many lives could have been saved if the physicians would have done this 15 months ago?
Depends on which quote from Trump you use. At one point, he did discuss that those 2 medications together could save lives or help severe patients. That is correct. He also mentioned that first responders, doctors, nurses, etc. should start taking it preventatively when they go into hospitals. That is incorrect. So some truth, some not so true. He said a whole bunch about HCQ in multiple press conferences.

As far as how many lives it could have saved. It is very difficult to say. Obviously, this study was performed in a hospital in the early months of the pandemic, so it was being used. We did know from other studies that these 2 medicines work in severe COVID, so a lot of systems were using it. Our infectious disease director of our hospital system was using it with severe COVID patients. Our local hospital system (that does not own our clinic) was using the 2 together. Obviously, I can't answer that question for all hospital systems, but for all of the ones that I know about, they were already using HCQ and azithromycin together for COVID patients who were hospitalized and failing more conservative therapies.
PackPA - Thanks for the analysis of the study and the additional information on hospital's use of HCQ. Do you happen to know the dosing levels that might have been used with the severe Covid patients in the hospitals? In your earlier post, you said the dosing levels in the study were high for HCQ, so I was curious if there was a standard dosing level used or if it could have varied by hospital. This could account for why some hospitals may have had better success with this form of treatment than others.
PackPA2015
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Great question. This is also mentioned in the study, but dosing differed pretty significantly based on which infectious disease doc was managing the patient at the time. There are a few specific regimens that have been recommended out there based on studies performed in other countries, France being a prominent one. 56% of patients in the study received a cumulative (spread out over days) dose of 2-3 grams of HCQ. 62.5% of the patients also received azithromycin typically at the 1 g dose level.

Interestingly, HCQ use did not decline throughout the study. Azithromycin use did decline throughout the 6 week study due to declining recommendations for the medicine.
Daviewolf83
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Regarding yesterday's discussion regarding the new Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, there have been some new updates published recently regarding the UK cases. According to reports, 91% of new cases are the Delta variant. According to the reports, Delta is thought to be 60% more transmissible than the Alpha variant (previous dominant variant in the UK) and the rate of hospitalization is reportedly 2.2x higher.

As to the effectiveness of vaccines against Delta, nearly all of the Delta cases being reported in the UK are people who are unvaccinated or have only received one dose (lesser percentage of total Delta cases). Reportedly, very few cases of Delta are being seen for people with two doses.

The graphs below, show the current Cases per 100,000 people and Hospitalizations per 100,000 people for the UK and the US. The UK is seeing a jump in Cases, but Hospitalizations are only up slightly over the same period.

Bottom line, if you have been fully vaccinated, it appears Delta should not be a big concern at this point.





statefan91
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Hopefully the lottery for vaccine will motivate some of those that are still hesitant
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