Civilized said:

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WarrenPeace said:

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caryking said:

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On this forum, we have a bunch of physicians, ER folks and others...

So, I have a question... for those that have not been vaccinated for a number of reason (Hesitant, Health Issues, or down right trust issues), what advice would you give those people that catch Covid 19?

in other words, what Therapy should be used?

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I had it in November and it was almost nothing to me.

Night sweats- 1 night
Fever gone next day
Took ibuprofen 2 days for aches
Lost sense of taste and smell 3 days.

I've had the flu. It kicked my ass. Covid was nothing compared to the flu for me. From my experience I see no reason to need a vaccine for it, for myself.

Others I get need it for whatever reasons there may be but I have no fear when it comes to Covid, none, off of my experience.

I don't understand the push to get everyone vaccinated. I do not need one. No one gets a flu shot "to protect everyone else", you get one for yourself. Why is Covid any different?

If you feel like you want one, get one. If you don't, dont.

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This is myopic as ****.

You have no fear of COVID because you had a milder case. You wouldn't be all "COVID ain't ****" if you'd gotten really sick, or had a really sick family member or had a friend or family member die.

Over 600,000 Americans have died and tens of millions have been hospitalized or seriously ill.

What would those numbers need to be before you'd "understand the push to get everyone vaccinated?" How many millions would need to die? How many tens of millions would need to get seriously ill?

It ain't all about you and your experience man. You don't live on a tiny island nation, population of one. Lots of other Americans out there having different experiences than you.

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When are you going to give President Trump props for curing the flu and the common cold?

Are you going to add in all the deaths from car accidents, cancer, terminal illnesses, motorcycle wrecks, murders, suicides that were lumped in with that number you posted?

You want to be a tough guy that refuses to acknowledge what the PROFESSIONALS have posted. Keep doing you. We all take you as serious as we do the rest of your lefty ideas.

Get a damn clue. I'm done.

BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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WarrenPeace said:

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caryking said:

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On this forum, we have a bunch of physicians, ER folks and others...

So, I have a question... for those that have not been vaccinated for a number of reason (Hesitant, Health Issues, or down right trust issues), what advice would you give those people that catch Covid 19?

in other words, what Therapy should be used?

---

I had it in November and it was almost nothing to me.

Night sweats- 1 night
Fever gone next day
Took ibuprofen 2 days for aches
Lost sense of taste and smell 3 days.

I've had the flu. It kicked my ass. Covid was nothing compared to the flu for me. From my experience I see no reason to need a vaccine for it, for myself.

Others I get need it for whatever reasons there may be but I have no fear when it comes to Covid, none, off of my experience.

I don't understand the push to get everyone vaccinated. I do not need one. No one gets a flu shot "to protect everyone else", you get one for yourself. Why is Covid any different?

If you feel like you want one, get one. If you don't, dont.

---

This is myopic as ****.

You have no fear of COVID because you had a milder case. You wouldn't be all "COVID ain't ****" if you'd gotten really sick, or had a really sick family member or had a friend or family member die.

Over 600,000 Americans have died and tens of millions have been hospitalized or seriously ill.

What would those numbers need to be before you'd "understand the push to get everyone vaccinated?" How many millions would need to die? How many tens of millions would need to get seriously ill?

It ain't all about you and your experience man. You don't live on a tiny island nation, population of one. Lots of other Americans out there having different experiences than you.

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I'm done.

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LOLOLOL.

Somehow I doubt that, brother.

He's an individualist with a belief in personal liberty. You espouse a collectivist mindset in which there is no option for personal choice. Naturally, both your viewpoints are going to collide.

Civilized said:

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WarrenPeace said:

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caryking said:

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On this forum, we have a bunch of physicians, ER folks and others...

So, I have a question... for those that have not been vaccinated for a number of reason (Hesitant, Health Issues, or down right trust issues), what advice would you give those people that catch Covid 19?

in other words, what Therapy should be used?

---

I had it in November and it was almost nothing to me.

Night sweats- 1 night
Fever gone next day
Took ibuprofen 2 days for aches
Lost sense of taste and smell 3 days.

I've had the flu. It kicked my ass. Covid was nothing compared to the flu for me. From my experience I see no reason to need a vaccine for it, for myself.

Others I get need it for whatever reasons there may be but I have no fear when it comes to Covid, none, off of my experience.

I don't understand the push to get everyone vaccinated. I do not need one. No one gets a flu shot "to protect everyone else", you get one for yourself. Why is Covid any different?

If you feel like you want one, get one. If you don't, dont.

---

This is myopic as ****.

You have no fear of COVID because you had a milder case. You wouldn't be all "COVID ain't ****" if you'd gotten really sick, or had a really sick family member or had a friend or family member die.

Over 600,000 Americans have died and tens of millions have been hospitalized or seriously ill.

What would those numbers need to be before you'd "understand the push to get everyone vaccinated?" How many millions would need to die? How many tens of millions would need to get seriously ill?

It ain't all about you and your experience man. You don't live on a tiny island nation, population of one. Lots of other Americans out there having different experiences than you.

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My mother was on a ventilator and almost died. She got the vaccine and I'm glad she did. She is fine now and we're around each other all the time. We go out to eat unmasked. We go to church unmasked. We have family get togethers unmasked. We choose not to live in fear, sir.

And it is all about my experience. That was what the original question was all about.

That's what i see as a problem with this thread (and the 2 Americas we've become). Nobody can offer a viewpoint or an article or an opinion without some close minded dogmatic clippety clopper (for us older guys) bowing up against it. There's very little open mindedness, or even the realization that this is all new and ever changing, nor the admission that like with most of life the data/studies/tweets/opinions/experts/Facebook MDs should truthfully fall somewhere in the middle with most of the sht we argue about. Masks/vaxs/therapeutics/policy... You name it. It's ALL somewhere in between the arguments. The sooner we all realize that simple truth, the better the discussions will be.

Oldsouljer said:

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He's an individualist with a belief in personal liberty. You espouse a collectivist mindset in which there is no option for personal choice. Naturally, both your viewpoints are going to collide.

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Personal liberty and empathy aren't mutually exclusive.

I have spent the morning updating data and creating some graphs I think many will find interesting. Here's my summary of the data:

1. The 50-59 age group continues to be the one most hospitalized and you can see some evidence as the "why" from the vaccination by age group graph. The 60-69 age group provides the second most daily hospitalizations, but the numbers of them being hospitalized daily in this Summer Wave is greatly reduced from the Winter Wave.







2. The percentage of Covid patients hospitalized that are in ICU is holding steady at 25%. This percentage has not changed for several weeks, despite the increase in the overall ICU population. This demonstrates to me that the Delta variant (he predominant variant in NC) is no more severe than other variants.



3. The percentage of ICU capacity utilized is definitely the highest it has been, since NCDHHS has provided statistics. As you can see from the graph below the ICU Utilization Percentage graph, this is driven by an INCREASE in ICU population and a DECREASE in ICU capacity. The ICU capacity has increased slightly over the past week or so, but it is still below the capacity from back in January.






4. The percentage of people who are currently infected with Covid (assumes 14-day infection period) who are hospitalized has flattened out at 4.3% (14-day average). This is down slightly from the beginning of the Summer Wave and is 0.2% higher than the 14-day average of the Winter Wave.




5. Some indications that hospitalizations may be close to peaking. Looking at the logarithmic plot of daily hospital admissions, the growth rate has slowed and has flattened in the last few days of reporting. The data from NCDHHS lags for this report, so I will need the next update on Tuesday to say for sure if we have reached a growth plateau. In the past, this flattening has preceded the peak.



6. Indications from a graph of the daily reported cases by specimen date that case growth is slowing. Looking at a logarithmic plot of the daily reported cases by specimen date, you can see the growth rate is starting to flatten out. Just as with the hospitalizations, this flattening has preceded the the peak of cases in past analysis. For this reason, I do believe the Summer Wave will peak in the next week to ten days.

Daviewolf83 said:

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I have spent the morning updating data and creating some graphs I think many will find interesting. Here's my summary of the data:

1. The 50-59 age group continues to be the one most hospitalized and you can see some evidence as the "why" from the vaccination by age group graph. The 60-69 age group provides the second most daily hospitalizations, but the numbers of them being hospitalized daily in this Summer Wave is greatly reduced from the Winter Wave.







2. The percentage of Covid patients hospitalized that are in ICU is holding steady at 25%. This percentage has not changed for several weeks, despite the increase in the overall ICU population. This demonstrates to me that the Delta variant (he predominant variant in NC) is no more severe than other variants.



3. The percentage of ICU capacity utilized is definitely the highest it has been, since NCDHHS has provided statistics. As you can see from the graph below the ICU Utilization Percentage graph, this is driven by an INCREASE in ICU population and a DECREASE in ICU capacity. The ICU capacity has increased slightly over the past week or so, but it is still below the capacity from back in January.






4. The percentage of people who are currently infected with Covid (assumes 14-day infection period) who are hospitalized has flattened out at 4.3% (14-day average). This is down slightly from the beginning of the Summer Wave and is 0.2% higher than the 14-day average of the Winter Wave.




5. Some indications that hospitalizations may be close to peaking. Looking at the logarithmic plot of daily hospital admissions, the growth rate has slowed and has flattened in the last few days of reporting. The data from NCDHHS lags for this report, so I will need the next update on Tuesday to say for sure if we have reached a growth plateau. In the past, this flattening has preceded the peak.



6. Indications from a graph of the daily reported cases by specimen date that case growth is slowing. Looking at a logarithmic plot of the daily reported cases by specimen date, you can see the growth rate is starting to flatten out. Just as with the hospitalizations, this flattening has preceded the the peak of cases in past analysis. For this reason, I do believe the Summer Wave will peak in the next week to ten days.

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Great info!

I am still sticking with my analysis that we are past the peak of the broader 'infection' wave and seeing a secondary disruption with institutional/school cases.

Looking at the CDC diagnosed ED and then comparing the CLI surveillance out of NC the last two weeks. When you look at PHE numbers, they had almost identical number of cases identified the last 2 weeks but admitted ~25-30% more patients. Was interesting to see since I was anticipating a greater decline there by now (based on declining ED diagnosis and estimations of the peak of the non-school infections)

Certainly, not all this is happening in a vacuum.

It should be telling on the post peak infection secondary case wave when we actually start seeing the age demographics for the cases. Due to reporting delays we are almost 3 weeks back on that info in NC.

EDIT:

updated through today with CDC data. ED% and Specimen by Collection date subject to backlog.


That slight inflection in cases by spec date around 8/14-8/16 is where the peak without the back to school bump was. If you look at some of the county data, you can clearly see the case curve starting to come down in a number of places around then before it 'bounces' with back to school.

Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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He's an individualist with a belief in personal liberty. You espouse a collectivist mindset in which there is no option for personal choice. Naturally, both your viewpoints are going to collide.

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Personal liberty and empathy aren't mutually exclusive.

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If someone does not exhibit your preferred level of empathy should they be compelled to? Either by public or private entities?

bgr3 said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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He's an individualist with a belief in personal liberty. You espouse a collectivist mindset in which there is no option for personal choice. Naturally, both your viewpoints are going to collide.

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Personal liberty and empathy aren't mutually exclusive.

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If someone does not exhibit your preferred level of empathy should they be compelled to? Either by public or private entities?

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Most collectivist believe in a central control! Remember when the Dems used to complain, back in the Bush 41 days, you can't legislate morality? Additionally, they would say: stay out of my bedroom!

Isn't it funny how times have changed?

.

packgrad said:

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Coronavirus is a cult for Democrats. This is one of Obama's guys.

Have you noticed how strikingly similar both the mindsets and actions are between the suicide bombers at Kabul’s airport, and the anti-mask and anti-vax people here?
They both blow themselves up, inflict harm on those around them, and are convinced they are fighting for freedom.

— Arne Duncan (@arneduncan) August 29, 2021

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I don't think that tweet went like he thought it might though. I think even people who support vaccinations, support masking would tend to find the tweet offensive and extraordinarily out of place and context.
And the comments in the tweet thread, the few I read, seemed to think it was the tweet of an idiot.

Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Coronavirus is a cult for Democrats. This is one of Obama's guys.

Have you noticed how strikingly similar both the mindsets and actions are between the suicide bombers at Kabul’s airport, and the anti-mask and anti-vax people here?
They both blow themselves up, inflict harm on those around them, and are convinced they are fighting for freedom.

— Arne Duncan (@arneduncan) August 29, 2021

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I don't think that tweet went like he thought it might though. I think even people who support vaccinations, support masking would tend to find the tweet offensive and extraordinarily out of place and context.
And the comments in the tweet thread, the few I read, seemed to think it was the tweet of an idiot.

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Arne Duncan is human trash and that is an insult to trash.

Daviewolf83 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Coronavirus is a cult for Democrats. This is one of Obama's guys.

Have you noticed how strikingly similar both the mindsets and actions are between the suicide bombers at Kabul’s airport, and the anti-mask and anti-vax people here?
They both blow themselves up, inflict harm on those around them, and are convinced they are fighting for freedom.

— Arne Duncan (@arneduncan) August 29, 2021

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I don't think that tweet went like he thought it might though. I think even people who support vaccinations, support masking would tend to find the tweet offensive and extraordinarily out of place and context.
And the comments in the tweet thread, the few I read, seemed to think it was the tweet of an idiot.

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Arne Duncan is human trash and that is an insult to trash.

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Whatever else he is, he's an excellent argument for dissolving the Department of Education.

Civilized said:

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bgr3 said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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He's an individualist with a belief in personal liberty. You espouse a collectivist mindset in which there is no option for personal choice. Naturally, both your viewpoints are going to collide.

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Personal liberty and empathy aren't mutually exclusive.

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If someone does not exhibit your preferred level of empathy should they be compelled to? Either by public or private entities?

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How does a public or private entity compel empathy?

How would that work?

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They can't. Glad we agree.

Case demographics came out on NC DHHS and even though 8/22 stats aren't complete, the back to school testing bump shows in the age reporting. 5-17 year olds make up 20.6% of the reported cases the week of 8/22 as opposed to 17.5% the week of 8/15.

Again the week of 8/22 case data is likely still incomplete, but in raw cases age groups: 5-9, 10-14, 15-17 all already show an increase over 8/15 raw case totals. All other age groups still have a lower number of raw cases than 8/15 demographics reporting (18-24 basically flat).

Duke. 98% student vax, 92% staff vax

~350 vaccinated people test positive for COVID in the past week.

(Although there test positive rate is really low like 1%... they must be SUPER TESTING - all students are tested - at least - weekly).

Now have an outdoor mask mandate outside and no indoor dining.

No one has actually been hospitalized and only a few had 'minor' flu like symptoms.

We need to stop this insanity.

BREAKING: 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19 last week. Masks will now be required indoor and outdoors, indoor group seating for dining will be suspended and faculty may teach remotely for the next two weeks. Story to come.

— The Chronicle (@DukeChronicle) August 30, 2021

wilmwolf80 said:

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Yup. Hard to believe that we are this far in and still using positive tests, from exploratory testing (don't know if there's a more technical term) no less, as a metric to drive policy.

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They literally beat COVID (as much as anyone is going to)... they got everyone vaxxed and it is no more than a minor cold for a few people and they are shutting down the campus???

Public health needs to man up and tell institutions to stop this *****

CDC will recommend boosters based on level of risk - long term care facilities and healthcare workers will be recommended. They do not recommend boosters at this time to everyone based on a lack of data. They got this one right in my opinion.

Wayland said:

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Duke. 98% student vax, 92% staff vax

~350 vaccinated people test positive for COVID in the past week.

(Although there test positive rate is really low like 1%... they must be SUPER TESTING - all students are tested - at least - weekly).

Now have an outdoor mask mandate outside and no indoor dining.

No one has actually been hospitalized and only a few had 'minor' flu like symptoms.

We need to stop this insanity.

BREAKING: 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19 last week. Masks will now be required indoor and outdoors, indoor group seating for dining will be suspended and faculty may teach remotely for the next two weeks. Story to come.

— The Chronicle (@DukeChronicle) August 30, 2021

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Duke is run by zero-Covid zealots. I commented a few weeks ago on Twitter that they were wasting resources testing fully vaccinated people and as you could imagine, I was attacked by the zero-Covid groupies. I am waiting for them to impose attendance restrictions on sporting events soon.

Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Duke. 98% student vax, 92% staff vax

~350 vaccinated people test positive for COVID in the past week.

(Although there test positive rate is really low like 1%... they must be SUPER TESTING - all students are tested - at least - weekly).

Now have an outdoor mask mandate outside and no indoor dining.

No one has actually been hospitalized and only a few had 'minor' flu like symptoms.

We need to stop this insanity.

BREAKING: 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19 last week. Masks will now be required indoor and outdoors, indoor group seating for dining will be suspended and faculty may teach remotely for the next two weeks. Story to come.

— The Chronicle (@DukeChronicle) August 30, 2021

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Duke is run by zero-Covid zealots. I commented a few weeks ago on Twitter that they were wasting resources testing fully vaccinated people and as you could imagine, I was attacked by the zero-Covid groupies. I am waiting for them to impose attendance restrictions on sporting events soon.

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The sad part is that they promote themselves as a bastion of science, reason, and medicine.

I agree. You will not test your way out of a pandemic by testing fully vaccinated people. You will not mask your way out of a pandemic. You will not lock-down your way out of a pandemic.

The only way out is by vaccinating as many people as possible and conferring immunity from previous infection to enough people that the virus becomes a less severe, endemic illness. I do not recommend going the infection route to build resistance, since vaccination is a much safer way to achieve the same goal.

My opinion - those who think zero-Covid can be achieved, should not be in charge of advising any health policies concerning Covid.

"The goal isn't to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 infections. We can't, no matter how many booster shots the United States gives. The goal is to slow the spread, save lives, and eventually turn COVID-19 into something much less deadly -- something more like the flu."

"Entirely eliminating infections is an unrealistic goal, but successful vaccines will avoid the worst outcomes."

Americans Are Losing Sight of the Pandemic Endgame

statefan91 said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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"The goal isn't to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 infections. We can't, no matter how many booster shots the United States gives. The goal is to slow the spread, save lives, and eventually turn COVID-19 into something much less deadly -- something more like the flu."

"Entirely eliminating infections is an unrealistic goal, but successful vaccines will avoid the worst outcomes."

Americans Are Losing Sight of the Pandemic Endgame

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Apologies that I haven't read the article yet, but I think part of the problem is definitely that the CDC / etc haven't given any indication as to what the endgame actually is.

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I agree. I am not sure they know what the endgame is and if they do, they may not want to communicate it, due to potential backlash from the "offended" group. I do not know why the CDC and the other health policy advisors will not tell people zero-Covid is an unrealistic goal.

On top of this, you have institutions like Duke University. They have vaccinated 98% of their student population and have tested 15,000 from this population. From this testing, there are NO cases severe enough to require hospitalization and yet Duke is putting further restrictions in place (outdoor dining, restrictions on group meetings, outdoor masking). Their reason - the current surge in cases "is placing a significant stress on people, systems, and facilities that are dedicated to protecting our health."

It seems many of the policies being enacted now across the country now are reactive reactive and completely ad hoc. It might or might not have worked for the last surge, we do not have data to show it had any meaningful impact, so let's do it again. There is no strategy, no consistency, and clearly no endgame.

Daviewolf83 said:

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statefan91 said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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"The goal isn't to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 infections. We can't, no matter how many booster shots the United States gives. The goal is to slow the spread, save lives, and eventually turn COVID-19 into something much less deadly -- something more like the flu."

"Entirely eliminating infections is an unrealistic goal, but successful vaccines will avoid the worst outcomes."

Americans Are Losing Sight of the Pandemic Endgame

---

Apologies that I haven't read the article yet, but I think part of the problem is definitely that the CDC / etc haven't given any indication as to what the endgame actually is.

---

I agree. I am not sure they know what the endgame is and if they do, they may not want to communicate it, due to potential backlash from the "offended" group. I do not know why the CDC and the other health policy advisors will not tell people zero-Covid is an unrealistic goal.

On top of this, you have institutions like Duke University. They have vaccinated 98% of their student population and have tested 15,000 from this population. From this testing, there are NO cases severe enough to require hospitalization and yet Duke is putting further restrictions in place (outdoor dining, restrictions on group meetings, outdoor masking). Their reason - the current surge in cases "is placing a significant stress on people, systems, and facilities that are dedicated to protecting our health."

It seems many of the policies being enacted now across the country now are reactive reactive and completely ad hoc. It might or might not have worked for the last surge, we do not have data to show it had any meaningful impact, so let's do it again. There is no strategy, no consistency, and clearly no endgame.

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COVID policy has become purely ad hoc and reactive. There's no strategy, there's no endgame, there's no philosophy, there's no internal consistency, there's no cost-benefit analysis, there's no metrics to define success, there's no consensus on what we want to accomplish.

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) August 31, 2021

I have been screaming for a year and a half about the ad-hoc reactionary nature of COVID policy and lack of cost benefit analysis.... amazing people are starting to finally wake up.

The 'significant stress' Duke is feeling is not COVID related but related to their own bizarre policies. Remove the restrictions and isolation and weekly testing of everyone (who are all vaccinated)... the stress is relieved.