IseWolf22 said:

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packgrad said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

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Libertarian or Independent

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I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.

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Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again

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How much worse has your life gotten since Trump won? What makes his second term scare you so much?

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Well that's a big question we could go back and forth on for days. But for starters, his trade war is a drag on an otherwise good economy. The president has very little effect on short term economic conditions, but trade is one of the exceptions. He still maintains that US consumers don't pay tariffs which is a either a lie or a complete misunderstanding of basic economics.

His cabinet has been a revolving door with a huge amount of turnover and mini scandals. He's given me zero confidence that he can "hire the best" people or can run an executive office. He prioritizes loyalty and subservience over competence.

He's been terrible for the national debt. He campaigned on balancing the budget in 8 years and instead has increased the deficit by over $3 Trillion. He;s pumped up spending, cut taxes and when aids have expressed concern has said, ""Yeah, but I won't be here."

But lastly he is just a flat out embarrassing person to be associate with our country's leadership. He's a petty, vindictive, egomaniac. He's obsessed with his own image that he literally can't admit he is fallible and can be wrong. Sharpie-gate was the most Trump thing ever, digging in over a stupid, unimportant comment and pressuring agencies to lie and back him up. He lies about everything just for the hell of it and tweets like a sulking teenager.

I tried really, really hard to like Trump early in his term. I liked some of his initial cabinet and hoped he really would bring fiscal sanity to the government, reduce regulation, and get us our of the middle east. Regulation has been the only positive so far.

TLDNR; As a libertarian a big government authoritarian like Trump is the antithesis to what I look for in a President, both in substance and style.

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So i've read through your comments and to me you don't like him because he is like every other president, outside of the turnover in the cabinet?

Right?

I feel like the biggest part is probably that he doesn't like his fiscal approach and its trajectory for increasing the debt.

Trump literally ran on not being like any other President because he was a "Business Man" and wouldn't have time to golf while being the President...

statefan91 said:

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I feel like the biggest part is probably that he doesn't like his fiscal approach and its trajectory for increasing the debt.

Trump literally ran on not being like any other President because he was a "Business Man" and wouldn't have time to golf while being the President...

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I think that is where we may be different. I expect a politician to lie about what they are gonna do. I expected the guy to go out and do things to increase the deficit and play golf.

Did you expect him to spend approximately a year of his Presidency playing golf at his properties, while still charging the Government for their stays at his properties like any regular customer?

I will be honest I assumed the best when he was elected. I am amazed every day at how brazen he is with lining his pockets with taxpayer money.

statefan91 said:

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Did you expect him to spend approximately a year of his Presidency playing golf at his properties, while still charging the Government for their stays at his properties like any regular customer?

I will be honest I assumed the best when he was elected. I am amazed every day at how brazen he is with lining his pockets with taxpayer money.

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You are surprised with how brazen Trump is with lining his pockets with taxpayer money? He just has the benefit of owning the establishments that he stays at. The guy likes to play gold and owns golf courses, where did you think he was going to go play golf after he got elected?

I hope that you don't think that all politicians aren't doing the same thing given the opportunity. What exactly do you think that lobbyist do in DC? Hell....What do you think reporters do to get sources in DC?

99% of politicians go to DC with modest means like the rest of us and leave as millionaires. They don't come about that money with their meager 174,000 a year salary.

They pass laws to benefit themselves and are looking out for their wallet #1. Here is a fine example:
https://theintercept.com/2015/05/07/congress-argues-cant-investigated-insider-trading/

You complain about it now because Trump is doing it, and as bad as all of the democrats are you have to find a way to be able to reason with yourself that no matter how bad Sanders, Biden, Warren, ect. are Trump is worse....even if he is doing nothing different than any other politician is now.

Yes I am surprised that he is bold enough to charge the taxpayers millions of dollars so he can play golf at his resorts. I don't think that's outlandish.

I understand how lobbying works. Citizens United has ruined democracy by enabling PACs across the board to have so much control on elections and nominees. When an endless stream of money comes in from lobbyists it quickly burdens candidates with doing what they've been told to continue the money. That's why Citizens United should be overturned and elections be publicly funded.

Honest question - based on what Warren and Sanders have campaigned on, do you think they would come in and also do the bidding of lobbyists? What exactly would worry you that they could do as President?

statefan91 said:

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Yes I am surprised that he is bold enough to charge the taxpayers millions of dollars so he can play golf at his resorts. I don't think that's outlandish.

I understand how lobbying works. Citizens United has ruined democracy by enabling PACs across the board to have so much control on elections and nominees. When an endless stream of money comes in from lobbyists it quickly burdens candidates with doing what they've been told to continue the money. That's why Citizens United should be overturned and elections be publicly funded.

Honest question - based on what Warren and Sanders have campaigned on, do you think they would come in and also do the bidding of lobbyists? What exactly would worry you that they could do as President?

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Politicians listening to lobbyist? What do you think Super PACs are? That money comes from people who are looking to gain something from getting a person elected....and who do you think has to deliver on it? That's right...the person who got elected

I am worried that both of them are going to try to increase taxes by trillions but at least Sanders is honest about it. Warren won't even give us the courtesy of being honest about the fact that she is gonna have to raise taxes by trillions of dollars to pay for her initiatives.

We have to pay for every single this that these politicians want to do. We would all do well to remember the number one rule of the government promising anything to anyone. They can not give something to someone that they didn't take from someone else. Medicare for all...you and I are paying for that. Little Tommy wants to go and get a degree in women's studies that he can't make any money with....you guessed it...you and I are on the hook for that. Taxes on the wealthy and corporations...the wealthy are going to take their money overseas and corporations are either going to close their doors, take their business overseas or pass the cost directly onto us. Either way you and I are picking up that tab as well. Green New Deal.....that is coming straight out of our pockets my friend.

Why do you think that most innovation over the last 100 years has come from the US? Its because our capitalistic society drives it. If there is nothing to be gained by the person doing the innovation then innovation just doesn't happen.

You want to see how the government that Sanders or Warren want to implement looks like...you don't have to do anymore than look at Venezuela. They were one of the richest countries in the world 20 years ago and now their people are chasing around zoo animals to eat.

So you think Venezuela has collapsed due to their spending on social programs, and nothing to do with the complete dependence crude oil and their own limitation of supply, paired with a global glut of oil reserves hitting the market causing their economy to tailspin? I don't disagree that massive spending on social programs when your economy is in the tank is a recipe for disaster.

And I think I struggle with your suggestion that the rich and Corporations will just leave and move their money. Do you think Corporations should just not pay any taxes? Do you think they carry no burden of the society and economy they participate in?

Lastly, do you really think that Sanders or Warren would be able to get Medicare for All passed through Congress? I must see the world through a different lens than you because I'd like to see Corporations pay taxes and the rich pay more taxes if it means children won't go hungry or someone can get treated for cancer without declaring bankruptcy. I work for a Fortune 50 company and have a great high deductible plan. I still pay a ****load of money every month and then pay more out of my HSA. The insurance and healthcare industry is broken and I don't know why people pretend that it's not.

PS - While you're worried about paying for things let me know what you think of this - https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/john-gallagher/2019/09/24/farmer-bailout-payments-china-trade-tariffs/2418676001/

statefan91 said:

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So you think Venezuela has collapsed due to their spending on social programs, and nothing to do with the complete dependence crude oil and their own limitation of supply, paired with a global glut of oil reserves hitting the market causing their economy to tailspin? I don't disagree that massive spending on social programs when your economy is in the tank is a recipe for disaster.

And I think I struggle with your suggestion that the rich and Corporations will just leave and move their money. Do you think Corporations should just not pay any taxes? Do you think they carry no burden of the society and economy they participate in?

Lastly, do you really think that Sanders or Warren would be able to get Medicare for All passed through Congress? I must see the world through a different lens than you because I'd like to see Corporations pay taxes and the rich pay more taxes if it means children won't go hungry or someone can get treated for cancer without declaring bankruptcy. I work for a Fortune 50 company and have a great high deductible plan. I still pay a ****load of money every month and then pay more out of my HSA. The insurance and healthcare industry is broken and I don't know why people pretend that it's not.

PS - While you're worried about paying for things let me know what you think of this - https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/john-gallagher/2019/09/24/farmer-bailout-payments-china-trade-tariffs/2418676001/

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Venezuela did collapse partially due to their spending on social programs. They decided to create government programs that the politicians thought would get them elected and keep in office, but didn't take into account economic forces that would negatively impact them. That is what happens when the government takes over a corporation such as oil. What did you think was going to happen? I do know what would of saved them though...the government not being involved at all.

I think if people feel like they can save money and not pay taxes by doing something different then leaving it here then they would do that in a heartbeat, and I can say I blame them. That is why so many large corporations are based somewhere beside the US. They can get a better tax rate as a corporation somewhere else. If we lower our tax rates it would encourage businesses to stay here or come back if they have already left.

When the ACA was passed during Obama's first term the speaker of the house actually got up and said "we have to pass it to see what is in it". That bill still got rammed through and voted into law. If that could happen then I have no doubt that it could happen again, or that any of the presidential candidates would use their executive powers to try and force the issue. It could get held up in court, but of course we have seen the last few years how that works and I think we can all agree that the court system is as partisan as congress at this point.

If you have a problem with your insurance then maybe you shouldn't vote for the folks who placed a tax on your great plan at the fortune 50 company that you work at, which caused it to cost so much more than it did before. If you voted democrat in 2008 they had a "great" plan for insurance that they got to implement the way they wanted to. Maybe it wasn't as good of a plan as you were led to believe. In reality insurance cost had no choice but to go up. As I said before, the people who bear the burden of cost when the government gives away something is us. That is exactly what happened. How else did you think that the medicare for everyone was going to be financed? The bottom line of this is that they screwed up health insurance already in the past decade, why should they be allowed to do it again?

I'm not happy with the tariffs either, but I see the reason for it. I don't think that the government should be involved in bailing out anyone

And round and round it goes, and rounnnndddd and round and round it goes.

Me being a condescending jerk.

statefan91 said:

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I feel like the biggest part is probably that he doesn't like his fiscal approach and its trajectory for increasing the debt.

Trump literally ran on not being like any other President because he was a "Business Man" and wouldn't have time to golf while being the President...

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That plus overall ineptness in management, conduct unbecoming of his office, and opposition to free trade and legal immigration.

Even the things past presidents have done, (ex. run up the debt, lie), Trump has compounded.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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And round and round it goes, and rounnnndddd and round and round it goes.

Me being a condescending jerk.

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Isn't the round and round half the fun? I get alot out of it to be honest with you.

Don't think your a condescending jerk....

IseWolf22 said:

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statefan91 said:

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I feel like the biggest part is probably that he doesn't like his fiscal approach and its trajectory for increasing the debt.

Trump literally ran on not being like any other President because he was a "Business Man" and wouldn't have time to golf while being the President...

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That plus overall ineptness in management, conduct unbecoming of his office, and opposition to free trade and legal immigration.

Even the things past presidents have done, (ex. run up the debt, lie), Trump has compounded.

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I seem to remember the last president driving up the deficit right at 10 trillion dollars...

Do you know what the law actually says on illegal vs. Illegal immigration? Just because you disagree with how something is being done doesn't make it illegal.

I can also think of several presidents who's conduct I would think was pretty unbecoming in office...from telling members of another political party that it was their time to sit at the back of the bus...to another president and his cigars.

As far as free trade I haven't seen it yet with any presidents, but let me know if it shows up. Would love to see how it actually works.

Your complaining about a guy who is acting like a politician...news flash for you...he's really not doing anything different than any other politician...you just happen to not like the guy

cowboypack02 said:

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I seem to remember the last president driving up the deficit right at 10 trillion dollars...

Do you know what the law actually says on illegal vs. Illegal immigration? Just because you disagree with how something is being done doesn't make it illegal.

I can also think of several presidents who's conduct I would think was pretty unbecoming in office...from telling members of another political party that it was their time to sit at the back of the bus...to another president and his cigars.

As far as free trade I haven't seen it yet with any presidents, but let me know if it shows up. Would love to see how it actually works.

Your complaining about a guy who is acting like a politician...news flash for you...he's really not doing anything different than any other politician...you just happen to not like the guy

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Obama was definitely not good on the deficit. You won't see me going to bat for Obama often. But he inherited a recession and spent massively in his early years on the stimulus (How effective that was is another conversation). Trump inherited one of the longest expansions ever. If he sat back and did nothing things would be better today.

As for the other stuff, come on now. Let's not act like Trump hasn't ratcheted up the lying and obstruction to new highs (at least in the modern presidency). Sorry but I'm not going to get over him making crap up almost every time he speaks. He doesn't care at all that he even appears to be truthful. Throw enough $#!T at the wall and eventually people stop caring about the mess. Most Republicans I know would be deeply ashamed if their kid came across anything like Trump, but they tie themselves in knots to explain why it's OK for the president (or at least better than a Democrat).

cowboypack02 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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And round and round it goes, and rounnnndddd and round and round it goes.

Me being a condescending jerk.

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Isn't the round and round half the fun? I get alot out of it to be honest with you.

Don't think your a condescending jerk....

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He's just mad because I have him on ignore. I think you're quite respectful and enjoy the dialogue.

I don't have a problem with my insurance. I understand that it's going to be expensive and I have a great job that enables me to plan for that, contribute to an HSA, care for my family. The reality is that there are millions of people in the country that don't have that. There are people that file bankruptcy every day because they can't pay medical bills. There are people that die because they can't afford prescriptions that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars a month. There are countless people that don't have access to mental health care that desperately need it, isn't one of the main Conservatives talking points after every mass shooting that mental illness is to blame?

Those things matter to me but it's OK if you don't think they're something the Government should be concerned with. But private insurance companies aren't going to step in to help, that's for sure. You say insurance companies had no choice but to go up and charge more? I am not an industry analyst by any means but this sort of shows that they used the ACA as a convenient excuse to increase prices - "The Best's Market Segment Report, titled, "2019 Review & Preview: U.S. Health," states that through third-quarter 2018, health insurers' net income grew by 19% to $25.8 billion compared with the same prior-year period." https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190301005040/en/Best%E2%80%99s-Market-Segment-Report-U.S.-Health-Insurance

I'm glad you think so highly of yourself that you think I would care if you have me on ignore or not. Good on ya mate. Happy election season! Anybody but Bernie!

I believe that most Americans as well as I would star this

If that ****show of a debate last night wasn't so pathetic, it would have been funny. What a disaster all 7 of those people were on that stage last night.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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If that ****show of a debate last night wasn't so pathetic, it would have been funny. What a disaster all 7 of those people were on that stage last night.

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I watched the ****show that was the basketball game last night. Didn't watch the debates

I did find it rather pathetic that a bunch of millionaires and billionaires stood on a stage and said the system needed to change because it didn't work. You made your millions and billions and now you want to tell me the system needs to change? That's mighty rich of those people and sadly, so many actually what that and think they are right. When the candidates first started, I could actually see myself supporting someone like Biben. Now, there's no chance because he has gone so far further left then he was before, just to keep up with the socialist on the far, far, far left.

https://www.businessinsider.com/america-middle-class-living-expenses-family-of-four-2020-2?utm_source=reddit.com

Quote:

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In 1985, the typical male worker needed 30 weeks' pay to cover the $13,227 required for a family of four's major living costs: housing, healthcare, transportation, and education. As of 2018, those expenditures had risen to $54,441, and the typical male worker has to work 53 weeks to get there (shown in the chart below). "This is a problem, as there are only 52 weeks in a year," Oren Cass, the report's lead author, wrote.

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I'm sure a self described socialist will make that all work out.

statefan91 said:

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Quote:

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In 1985, the typical male worker needed 30 weeks' pay to cover the $13,227 required for a family of four's major living costs: housing, healthcare, transportation, and education. As of 2018, those expenditures had risen to $54,441, and the typical male worker has to work 53 weeks to get there (shown in the chart below). "This is a problem, as there are only 52 weeks in a year," Oren Cass, the report's lead author, wrote.

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Not sustainable, no matter what side of the aisle you may fall on. Rising costs and general stagnant wages are a major, major issue in this country.

Pete suspended his campaign today. If Biden has a decent showing Tuesday and Bloomberg drops shortly after, I still think he has a fighting chance. Bernie still the heavy favorite, however.

PackBacker07 said:

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Pete suspended his campaign today. If Biden has a decent showing Tuesday and Bloomberg drops shortly after, I still think he has a fighting chance. Bernie still the heavy favorite, however.

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Steyer out too.

I think Biden or Bloomber will beat Bernie if the other drops out after super Tuesday. Kloubuchar will need to drop out as well. The moderate vote is larger than the progressive vote, but it's too fractured.

IseWolf22 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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Pete suspended his campaign today. If Biden has a decent showing Tuesday and Bloomberg drops shortly after, I still think he has a fighting chance. Bernie still the heavy favorite, however.

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Steyer out too.

I think Biden or Bloomber will beat Bernie if the other drops out after super Tuesday. Kloubuchar will need to drop out as well. The moderate vote is larger than the progressive vote, but it's too fractured.

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Yep - I think Biden winning SC as strongly as he did will help. Bernie has been winning with a lot of excitement, but in reality the moderate vote has been split amongst 4-5 candidates vs. Bernie splitting with Warren at most.

statefan91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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Pete suspended his campaign today. If Biden has a decent showing Tuesday and Bloomberg drops shortly after, I still think he has a fighting chance. Bernie still the heavy favorite, however.

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Steyer out too.

I think Biden or Bloomber will beat Bernie if the other drops out after super Tuesday. Kloubuchar will need to drop out as well. The moderate vote is larger than the progressive vote, but it's too fractured.

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Yep - I think Biden winning SC as strongly as he did will help. Bernie has been winning with a lot of excitement, but in reality the moderate vote has been split amongst 4-5 candidates vs. Bernie splitting with Warren at most.

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Politico is reporting that Kloubuchar is going to exit today and endorse Biden. If so, it's a big lift for him. But he needs to beat Bloomberg decisively tomorrow.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/02/klobuchar-to-drop-out-of-2020-campaign-endorse-biden-118823

What does everyone think the race will look like after today? I'm guessing Bernie will still be leading but Biden will be within striking distance. Will be interesting to see what happens in Texas, NC, VA, and some of the random states Bloomberg has spend his money in like Arkansas and Oklahoma.

statefan91 said:

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What does everyone think the race will look like after today? I'm guessing Bernie will still be leading but Biden will be within striking distance. Will be interesting to see what happens in Texas, NC, VA, and some of the random states Bloomberg has spend his money in like Arkansas and Oklahoma.

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I honestly have no idea. How many people early voted and wasted votes on Kloubucher or Pete? How do the ones that didn't split for remaining candidates? Can Bernie drive the turnout he's promised but so far failed to deliver?

I'll be interested to see the results tomorrow, but right now I have no idea. I'm just hoping that one of Bloomberg or Biden is soundly defeated and drops out. (Hopefully Blomberg). (I'm now rooting for Biden...ew)

With California's rules, it could be several days before we actually know how today went. I think regardless, after today, the likely hood of a brokered convention will increase. Will be an interesting next few months.

Bloomberg out, endorses Biden.
He's back to being the clear favorite, especially is Warren stays in.

Finally down to 4 candidates (lol Tulsi, even though I like her)

If Biden stays above the 20% mark in California he will still head into next week with the delegate lead. Several big states up for grab including Michigan and Florida. IMHO having been involved with primaries since 1988, if Biden is still on top a week from today, it's over. There won't be a contested convention in July

Latest polling in Florida has Biden and Bloomberg as 1/2, so I imagine Biden consolidates much of that vote to beat up on Sanders there:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/florida/

Michigan shows Sanders ahead

IseWolf22 said:

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Bloomberg out, endorses Biden.
He's back to being the clear favorite, especially is Warren stays in.

Finally down to 4 candidates (lol Tulsi, even though I like her)

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I like Tulsi too....but probably for different reasons

Glasswolf said:

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If Biden stays above the 20% mark in California he will still head into next week with the delegate lead. Several big states up for grab including Michigan and Florida. IMHO having been involved with primaries since 1988, if Biden is still on top a week from today, it's over. There won't be a contested convention in July

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I'd love to hear some of your experiences with the primaries and the way the delegate thing works.