statefan91 said:

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This is the source of Gabbard's comments. We were helping fund a portion of rebels in Syria that were linked to Al-Qaeda.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

Not thrilled about her stance on Syria and her meeting with Assad, especially outside of her duties as a Congresswoman.

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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This is the source of Gabbard's comments. We were helping fund a portion of rebels in Syria that were linked to Al-Qaeda.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

Not thrilled about her stance on Syria and her meeting with Assad, especially outside of her duties as a Congresswoman.

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Still you can't say that. Obama sent billions to Iran buy I certainly will argue with anyone who says he supports a terrorist group like Iran just as in this situation. Obama had many, many faults but I will never believe one of them was supporting terrorist. Just as trump has his many faults and I won't believe that either

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PackBacker07 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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This is the source of Gabbard's comments. We were helping fund a portion of rebels in Syria that were linked to Al-Qaeda.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

Not thrilled about her stance on Syria and her meeting with Assad, especially outside of her duties as a Congresswoman.

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Still you can't say that. Obama sent billions to Iran buy I certainly will argue with anyone who says he supports a terrorist group like Iran just as in this situation. Obama had many, many faults but I will never believe one of them was supporting terrorist. Just as trump has his many faults and I won't believe that either

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I agree no POTUS would actively support terrorism. I don't agree Obama sent billions to Iran. This is simply not true. BUT, back to the debates.

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Quote:

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Before the 1979 revolution, Iran's shah had paid $400 million for American military goods but, after he was overthrown, they were never delivered. The clerics who seized control demanded the money back, but the United States refused. The additional $1.3 billion is interest accumulated over 35 years. An initial reimbursement was released after the Iran deal was implemented and to help secure the release of American hostages.

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statefan91 said:

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/fact-check-trump-fox-friends-interview.html

The Obama administration did transfer $1.7 billion not $1.8 billion to Iran in 2016. That money was delivered in cash, some of it on a plane. But it was a payment related to a decades-long dispute and was indirectly linked to the nuclear deal.

As The Times has previously reported:

Quote:

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Before the 1979 revolution, Iran's shah had paid $400 million for American military goods but, after he was overthrown, they were never delivered. The clerics who seized control demanded the money back, but the United States refused. The additional $1.3 billion is interest accumulated over 35 years. An initial reimbursement was released after the Iran deal was implemented and to help secure the release of American hostages.

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Glasswolf said:

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The Obama administration only released money that was Iran's in the beginning

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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This is the source of Gabbard's comments. We were helping fund a portion of rebels in Syria that were linked to Al-Qaeda.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

Not thrilled about her stance on Syria and her meeting with Assad, especially outside of her duties as a Congresswoman.

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Still you can't say that. Obama sent billions to Iran buy I certainly will argue with anyone who says he supports a terrorist group like Iran just as in this situation. Obama had many, many faults but I will never believe one of them was supporting terrorist. Just as trump has his many faults and I won't believe that either

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I agree no POTUS would actively support terrorism. I don't agree Obama sent billions to Iran. This is simply not true. BUT, back to the debates.

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https://fortune-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/fortune.com/2016/09/07/us-iran-billion-hostages-arms-deal/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#aoh=15646746815225&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Ffortune.com%2F2016%2F09%2F07%2Fus-iran-billion-hostages-arms-deal%2F

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-400-million-cash/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2016%2F08%2F03%2Fpolitics%2Fus-sends-plane-iran-400-million-cash%2Findex.html

https://www-wsj-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-sent-two-more-planeloads-of-cash-to-iran-after-initial-payment-1473208256?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#aoh=15646748129270&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fu-s-sent-two-more-planeloads-of-cash-to-iran-after-initial-payment-1473208256

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IseWolf22 said:

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statefan91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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statefan91 said:

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I would want two debates, with the top 5 polling candidates on the first night and the bottom 5 polling candidates the second night.

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I don't like that format. No one watched the 'JV' debates for Republicans last cycle. If you're going to give the top 5 candidates a stage together, you might as well just have that be the only one.

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Understood, I just don't think you gain much from having Warren debate with Marianne Williamson or John Hickenlooper. Putting her, Biden, Sanders, Harris, and Buttigeig on the same stage would be much more interesting.

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Well what would the top 10 be?

Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Buttigege would be the top 5.
Then you have: O'rourke, Kloubucher, Booker, Castro, Yang as the next most likely

Those 10 are expected to qualify. The last 4 have not done so quite yet. But there could be a couple more who make it

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PackDaddy said:

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I am a farmer and am a true fiscal conservative to the point that I would say that I am a conservative libertarian. No I do not support the farm aid. We get a little bit of money here and there all the time and I wish it would just stop. If you can't make it without the government help then tough luck. Crop insurance should also not be subsidized by the government.

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statefan91 said:

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Immigration needs to be fixed, this is so ****ed up. I get it, they came here illegally to do the jobs that citizens likely won't do and Trump wants to punish them. But to do this without setting up anything for the children, most of whom are American citizens, is just ****ed up. Spare me the "their parents shouldn't have broken the law" - the children have nothing to do with that and shouldn't be orphaned like this with no warning.

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IseWolf22 said:

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statefan91 said:

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Immigration needs to be fixed, this is so ****ed up. I get it, they came here illegally to do the jobs that citizens likely won't do and Trump wants to punish them. But to do this without setting up anything for the children, most of whom are American citizens, is just ****ed up. Spare me the "their parents shouldn't have broken the law" - the children have nothing to do with that and shouldn't be orphaned like this with no warning.

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I agree. The current policy is not rational and is subject to wildly unequal enforcement. ICE is a disorganized sh*tshow of an organization as staff and management are constantly cycling in and out.
This is one area where it astounds me that we can't get to a compromise. The middle 60% of the country could hammer this out if the 15-20% on each fringe wouldn't hijack the process.

*Below not directed at anyone in particular*
Whatever your thoughts on immigration though, we need to protect the freaking children. They are children. This is a morale obligation we have as a country. If you want to deport everyone, sure, but we have a basic responsibility to keep good conditions for children if we have them or their parents held.

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IseWolf22 said:

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Yang has now qualified for the next debates. He's outpolling Beto in Iowa.

Beto is one who should consider dropping out soon. Unlike some of the little known people at 1%, he launched with name ID, money, and glowing press, then proceeded to slowly lose all of his support. He has the cash and polling to keep it going, but after this drop I can't see how he get's voters back.

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statefan91 said:

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Immigration needs to be fixed, this is so ****ed up. I get it, they came here illegally to do the jobs that citizens likely won't do and Trump wants to punish them. But to do this without setting up anything for the children, most of whom are American citizens, is just ****ed up. Spare me the "their parents shouldn't have broken the law" - the children have nothing to do with that and shouldn't be orphaned like this with no warning.

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cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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^Agreed

Also - the unemployment rate is 3.7% across the country, and that's including the likely hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants. It will destroy many industries if they really ramp up the raids like this.

Go after the companies employing them, offer worker visas or paths to citizenship and stop demonizing the 95% that are good, hard working people.

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I would argue that if the illegal immigrants are deported then it would increase wages. The fact is that if the company can't find anyone to work they will increase the wages for the job until someone takes it.

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cowboypack02 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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I agree. The current policy is not rational and is subject to wildly unequal enforcement. ICE is a disorganized sh*tshow of an organization as staff and management are constantly cycling in and out.
This is one area where it astounds me that we can't get to a compromise. The middle 60% of the country could hammer this out if the 15-20% on each fringe wouldn't hijack the process.

*Below not directed at anyone in particular*
Whatever your thoughts on immigration though, we need to protect the freaking children. They are children. This is a morale obligation we have as a country. If you want to deport everyone, sure, but we have a basic responsibility to keep good conditions for children if we have them or their parents held.

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Just out of curiosity what happens to children when US citizens are arrested? The children cry because either mom or dad are not there anymore and then the kids are sent to live with a relative or get dumped into the foster care system. If you go out and kill someone or hold up a store your kids will be separated from you just like those kids are separated from their parents. A law was broken and that is how justice is given out in this country. They are not being treated any differently then kids of citizens who commit a crime are treated.

The truth is that the only reason that the kids are shown here is because the paper is trying to make a point about illegal immigrants. If the publisher cared about the kids they would talk about all of the kids who are separated from their parents, not just the illegal parents because of political points.

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statefan91 said:

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I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse or not, but if the government has the ability to coordinate a raid like this and target 600+ illegal immigrants, they could also plan to have facilities available and a plan in place to help manage the children.

The kids are likely US citizens, and have done nothing wrong except had their parents be illegal immigrants. These are children going to school in the morning and coming home to empty homes, or not getting picked up at school. If you don't have a problem with children being orphaned with no plan in place to help them besides strangers and teachers picking them up, then I don't know what to say.

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statefan91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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I would argue that if the illegal immigrants are deported then it would increase wages. The fact is that if the company can't find anyone to work they will increase the wages for the job until someone takes it.

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The wages will increase for the work that can afford it. For the work that can't be filled due to a labor shortage, you will have bottlenecks in production, reduction in supply, cost increases for the end consumer. None of that is good for an economy that is already starting to show signs of slowing down.

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cowboypack02 said:

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The US government has a whole department that deals with situations just like this...its called the US Department of Health and Human services. You can read about what they do regarding children here: https://www.childwelfare.gov/

Since this happened in Missouri they also have a department in place and you can read about that here: https://dss.mo.gov/cd/


US citizens in this country are separated from their children every day when a crime is committed. We aren't treating the children of illegal immigrants any differently then your children would be treated if you committed a crime and were incarcerated.

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statefan91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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^Agreed

Also - the unemployment rate is 3.7% across the country, and that's including the likely hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants. It will destroy many industries if they really ramp up the raids like this.

Go after the companies employing them, offer worker visas or paths to citizenship and stop demonizing the 95% that are good, hard working people.

---

I would argue that if the illegal immigrants are deported then it would increase wages. The fact is that if the company can't find anyone to work they will increase the wages for the job until someone takes it.

---

The wages will increase for the work that can afford it. For the work that can't be filled due to a labor shortage, you will have bottlenecks in production, reduction in supply, cost increases for the end consumer. None of that is good for an economy that is already starting to show signs of slowing down.

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cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse or not, but if the government has the ability to coordinate a raid like this and target 600+ illegal immigrants, they could also plan to have facilities available and a plan in place to help manage the children.

The kids are likely US citizens, and have done nothing wrong except had their parents be illegal immigrants. These are children going to school in the morning and coming home to empty homes, or not getting picked up at school. If you don't have a problem with children being orphaned with no plan in place to help them besides strangers and teachers picking them up, then I don't know what to say.

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The US government has a whole department that deals with situations just like this...its called the US Department of Health and Human services. You can read about what they do regarding children here: https://www.childwelfare.gov/

Since this happened in Missouri they also have a department in place and you can read about that here: https://dss.mo.gov/cd/


US citizens in this country are separated from their children every day when a crime is committed. We aren't treating the children of illegal immigrants any differently then your children would be treated if you committed a crime and were incarcerated.

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cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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I would argue that if the illegal immigrants are deported then it would increase wages. The fact is that if the company can't find anyone to work they will increase the wages for the job until someone takes it.

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The wages will increase for the work that can afford it. For the work that can't be filled due to a labor shortage, you will have bottlenecks in production, reduction in supply, cost increases for the end consumer. None of that is good for an economy that is already starting to show signs of slowing down.

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Increasing the wage always increases cost for the end consumer. What do you think will happen when the minimum wage is finally increased to whatever rate the democrats want to increase it to?

You will end up with a short term supply in reduction, but you will also end up with new companies forming who see a gap there and a way to make money. That will fix the supply issue.

As far as the bottleneck in production the increase in wage for new employees that take the place of the illegal immigrants will fix that.

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IseWolf22 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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I agree. The current policy is not rational and is subject to wildly unequal enforcement. ICE is a disorganized sh*tshow of an organization as staff and management are constantly cycling in and out.
This is one area where it astounds me that we can't get to a compromise. The middle 60% of the country could hammer this out if the 15-20% on each fringe wouldn't hijack the process.

*Below not directed at anyone in particular*
Whatever your thoughts on immigration though, we need to protect the freaking children. They are children. This is a morale obligation we have as a country. If you want to deport everyone, sure, but we have a basic responsibility to keep good conditions for children if we have them or their parents held.

---

Just out of curiosity what happens to children when US citizens are arrested? The children cry because either mom or dad are not there anymore and then the kids are sent to live with a relative or get dumped into the foster care system. If you go out and kill someone or hold up a store your kids will be separated from you just like those kids are separated from their parents. A law was broken and that is how justice is given out in this country. They are not being treated any differently then kids of citizens who commit a crime are treated.

The truth is that the only reason that the kids are shown here is because the paper is trying to make a point about illegal immigrants. If the publisher cared about the kids they would talk about all of the kids who are separated from their parents, not just the illegal parents because of political points.

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Are you really trying to draw morale equivalence between robbery and murder and illegal immigration? Really??

And if the police come arrest you for murder, they will call social services to come pick your kids up and get them to a relative or in foster care. These kids were left alone. There was no plan to deal with them. Neighbors were picking up crying children and taking them to a community center. The foster care system in most US states is a whole other can of worms.

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