Democratic Debates

56,432 Views | 309 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by IseWolf22
cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

statefan91 said:

For those of you satisfied with the current Healthcare and Insurance provider systems, are you also satisfied with this -



https://www.insider.com/half-cancer-patients-lose-their-entire-life-savings-2018-10

I don't understand how the rest of the Western world has figured out how to avoid putting people into bankruptcy if they are unfortunate enough to get cancer, but the US can't...
Out of the 42%, how many had little to no life savings in the first place? A large chunk of Americans have approximately $0 and are included in this number. Separate issue.

There are tradeoffs of course. In other countries you largely don't have the right to try new or experimental medicines. I still think the biggest fix to our system is full price transparency. If people can shop for their medical care, prices will go down. Right now you have almost no insight into what your different treatment options cost, and their effectiveness.
I fully agree with you here. If we can make healthcare affordable through transparent pricing then I am all for it. Hopefully it would increase competition and drive prices down

On your first point i think part of what drives the folks that do have savings into bankruptcy is that the people who are paying have to carry both themselves and the folks that don't pay anything as well. I don't know what the solution is for that but it has to really drive the pricing up on anything medical related
RunsWithWolves26
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Guess I'm still on ignore because I haven't received a repsonse back from the question I ask another poster. Sure wish people actually wanted to have open conversation and not just put someone in ignore because they don't agree with their opinions. Oh well, I shall keep waiting
statefan91
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Crazy to me that Steyer has qualified for the debates. I can't imagine having that type of money to waste on my ego rather than finding an opportunity to do good things and impact people's lives. I don't begrudge him, just think it's a waste.
statefan91
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My understanding is that you do have the opportunity to try experimental / new drugs, you just have to pay extra for them or get additional insurance outside of the standard coverage across the country. I could absolutely be wrong though.
RunsWithWolves26
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Heart broken that Harris is out of the race now. Bunch of billionaires that are racist and don't like women held her back. Sad to see.
IseWolf22
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Iowa caucus being this much of a mess is kind of funny.

It's interesting to me that this primary is still so up in the air. 11 people made it to the caucuses and I imagine we will have at least 9 in new Hampshire still. Bloomburg's absurd spending is certainly a wrench in the system.
RunsWithWolves26
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IseWolf22 said:

Iowa caucus being this much of a mess is kind of funny.

It's interesting to me that this primary is still so up in the air. 11 people made it to the caucuses and I imagine we will have at least 9 in new Hampshire still. Bloomburg's absurd spending is certainly a wrench in the system.


Russia is behind this! Impeach someone over this mess!!!
cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

Iowa caucus being this much of a mess is kind of funny.

It's interesting to me that this primary is still so up in the air. 11 people made it to the caucuses and I imagine we will have at least 9 in new Hampshire still. Bloomburg's absurd spending is certainly a wrench in the system.
The technical term is cluster**** I believe.
IseWolf22
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Down to 8 candidates, although Yang is the only departure who mattered.

Time to winnow this down before super Tuesday.
Steyer and Tulsi have no shot. Steyer has to beat Biden in SC and Tulsi isn't even trying to win
Warren and Biden look like their candidacy is dying. Biden has lost all momentum.

Bloomberg/Kloubucher/Buttigege are all competing for moderates. They need Biden and the others to drop out before Sanders wins the nomination with 35% of the vote.
statefan91
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IseWolf22 said:

Down to 8 candidates, although Yang is the only departure who mattered.

Time to winnow this down before super Tuesday.
Steyer and Tulsi have no shot. Steyer has to beat Biden in SC and Tulsi isn't even trying to win
Warren and Biden look like their candidacy is dying. Biden has lost all momentum.

Bloomberg/Kloubucher/Buttigege are all competing for moderates. They need Biden and the others to drop out before Sanders wins the nomination with 35% of the vote.

Crazy to see what money will do but Bloomberg has definitely piqued a lot of people's interest. I think he just likes pissing Trump off for the most part.

I don't know the mechanics of it if no one gets a majority and they just have a plurality.
Pack87
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Political philosophy question. If you do not like any of the candidates (either side) but you agree with about 30% of what one side thinks and less than 20% of what the other side thinks who do you vote for? That is why Trump is in office and could remain so. The country is not socialist (as a whole) and even though I don't think most people like Trump's behavior he is more conservative than anyone the Democrats are getting behind. James Carvell made some great points about where politics are in this country. You can't just make one side "the evil empire".
statefan91
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Pack87 said:

Political philosophy question. If you do not like any of the candidates (either side) but you agree with about 30% of what one side thinks and less than 20% of what the other side thinks who do you vote for? That is why Trump is in office and could remain so. The country is not socialist (as a whole) and even though I don't think most people like Trump's behavior he is more conservative than anyone the Democrats are getting behind. James Carvell made some great points about where politics are in this country. You can't just make one side "the evil empire".
I think it's all about branding, honestly.

Conservatives talk about fiscal responsibility, but the truth is that Trump has ballooned the deficient by $4T dollars, a 20%+ increase from where it was when he took over. That ballooning is enabled by corporate tax breaks that will supposedly trickle down to the middle class and poor.

So you're an undecided voter that thinks fiscal responsibility is important. So you vote Republican because they're branded as such, whereas when people think Democrats they think about the social programs and higher taxes, because that's how they're branded. Truthfully it's probably much more fiscally responsible to actually tax corporations and put the money to work for middle class and poor, but everyone just thinks that those are "handouts" when not considering that corporations are getting handouts on a magnitude much higher than what would passed on to those that need it.

I'm pretty sure most economic summaries of Presidential tenures will show that the economy, debt, etc. have done much better under Democratic Presidents than Republican. GWB's administration was responsible for roll-back of lending rules that led to the recession in 2008/2009, and it was cleaned up while Obama was in office and he had the economy humming as Trump took over. But for some reason people like to think that Republicans talking about "deregulation" and "manufacturing jobs" will magically make the economy better.

There are also many that are Republican because they think that's the party God would get behind. It's baffling how focused they are on gay marriage and abortion rights that they don't worry about the other multitude of sins that are ignored across the board. For some reason the conservative Christians don't think about greed is a sin, especially when so much of the money that corporations and rich are given back could make incredible impact to society as a whole by helping with homelessness, hunger, education, things like that.

So with that, you have to vote with your conscious. Do you care more about abortion rights than children that don't have enough food each day? Do you care more about corporations getting tax cuts than you care about Universal Pre-K so children aren't sitting at home in front of a TV for 8 hours a day while their parent works a minimum wage job just to get by?
IseWolf22
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Pack87 said:

Political philosophy question. If you do not like any of the candidates (either side) but you agree with about 30% of what one side thinks and less than 20% of what the other side thinks who do you vote for? That is why Trump is in office and could remain so. The country is not socialist (as a whole) and even though I don't think most people like Trump's behavior he is more conservative than anyone the Democrats are getting behind. James Carvell made some great points about where politics are in this country. You can't just make one side "the evil empire".
It depends. Do you live in a battleground state? If not, I say lodge a protest vote and put whatever 3rd party candidate or write in that you like. The fact is, if you live in California or Alabama, your presidential vote doesn't matter.

If you are in a battleground, you really have to think about it. The "lesser of two evils" becomes a more viable choice. That is why I will likely vote Democrat for the first time in my life this year.

But the choice can always be too unsavory to make. If we get Bernie vs. Trump I'm voting Libertarian again (hopefully Justin Amash). I don't care, I can't vote for either one of them.

Now the interesting thing is that someone is going to try and jump in as a 3rd party/independent in a Trump vs. Bernie. There is just way too much political real estate between two populists. If that candidate is actually strong and well funded, (think Ross Perot), it really throws a lot of people's thinking for a loop.
Pack87
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I really would consider 3rd party if an electable candidate ran. I don't care for Trump's methods but I cannot vote for Sanders, Warren and I even think the others have been pulled too far left. There is no centrist candidate so do you go with the party you agree with ever so slightly over the other.
statefan91
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Pack87 said:

I really would consider 3rd party if an electable candidate ran. I don't care for Trump's methods but I cannot vote for Sanders, Warren and I even think the others have been pulled too far left. There is no centrist candidate so do you go with the party you agree with ever so slightly over the other.
I feel like Buttigieg and Klobuchar are pretty moderate. I think you've seen Republicans go so far right that ideas they held 20 years ago seem leftist.
packgrad
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statefan91 said:

Pack87 said:

I really would consider 3rd party if an electable candidate ran. I don't care for Trump's methods but I cannot vote for Sanders, Warren and I even think the others have been pulled too far left. There is no centrist candidate so do you go with the party you agree with ever so slightly over the other.
I feel like Buttigieg and Klobuchar are pretty moderate. I think you've seen Republicans go so far right that ideas they held 20 years ago seem leftist.


I think that just shows how far left the candidates are if you consider Klobuchar and Buttigieg moderate.
IseWolf22
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statefan91 said:

Pack87 said:

I really would consider 3rd party if an electable candidate ran. I don't care for Trump's methods but I cannot vote for Sanders, Warren and I even think the others have been pulled too far left. There is no centrist candidate so do you go with the party you agree with ever so slightly over the other.
I feel like Buttigieg and Klobuchar are pretty moderate. I think you've seen Republicans go so far right that ideas they held 20 years ago seem leftist.
Compared to the rest of the field + Trump, they certainly are moderates. I'd hesitate to call a publicly funded insurance plan ("medicare for all who want it") truly moderate. I'm also very against Buttigieg's court packing plan (although he's seemed to drop that). On the flip side, he's the only person I've heard talk about Federal spending and bringing down the deficit. Bernie and Trump clearly doesn't care about the deficit in any way, shape, or form.

To your second point though, I always like to remember that the "individual mandate" was first proposed by conservatives. But when Democrats supported it suddenly it was was awful
packgrad
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Buttigieg's pandering to "Black America" is far from moderate. Can say the same about the eventual Dem candidate, Bloomberg, although his old audio recordings will sink that ship with "Black America".
statefan91
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Weird debate last night. Consensus seems to be that once Bloomberg had to start talking his meteoric rise was dampened. Still, $60B will buy you a lot of ad space and he seems to really want this.

Warren seems to have benefited the most from laying into Bloomberg from an optics standpoint, but I think it'll be interesting where the people leaning to Bloomberg will re-align if they leave him. Don't think there was ever a world where many of them would go to Warren, so may benefit Biden the most in the end.

Bernie continues to be Bernie. Interested to see how Nevada votes this weekend.
IseWolf22
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statefan91 said:

Weird debate last night. Consensus seems to be that once Bloomberg had to start talking his meteoric rise was dampened. Still, $60B will buy you a lot of ad space and he seems to really want this.

Warren seems to have benefited the most from laying into Bloomberg from an optics standpoint, but I think it'll be interesting where the people leaning to Bloomberg will re-align if they leave him. Don't think there was ever a world where many of them would go to Warren, so may benefit Biden the most in the end.

Bernie continues to be Bernie. Interested to see how Nevada votes this weekend.
I'm still catching up as I was at the game last night, but I'm interested to see how this shakes out. Although I find the debates useful, I believe 90%+ of people either don't care, or are already so set in their decision that they can't be swayed. That said, I don't think this debate halts Bloombergs rise and I don't think it really helps Warren
RunsWithWolves26
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Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.
statefan91
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I think of Bernie more as a Social Democrat, than a Socialist. At least based on my understanding of the overarching understanding of what a Social Democrat is. He just hasn't been aligned to the Democratic party.

"Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and social welfare provisions.[1][2][3] Due to longstanding governance by social democratic parties during the post-war consensus and their influence on socioeconomic policy in the Nordic countries, social democracy became associated with the Nordic model and Keynesianism within political circles in the late 20th century.[4] It has also been seen by some political commentators as a synonym for modern socialism[5][6][7] and as overlapping with democratic socialism.[8][9][10][11][12][13][14]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
RunsWithWolves26
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statefan91 said:

I think of Bernie more as a Social Democrat, than a Socialist. At least based on my understanding of the overarching understanding of what a Social Democrat is. He just hasn't been aligned to the Democratic party.

"Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and social welfare provisions.[1][2][3] Due to longstanding governance by social democratic parties during the post-war consensus and their influence on socioeconomic policy in the Nordic countries, social democracy became associated with the Nordic model and Keynesianism within political circles in the late 20th century.[4] It has also been seen by some political commentators as a synonym for modern socialism[5][6][7] and as overlapping with democratic socialism.[8][9][10][11][12][13][14]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy


Ok, so I ask again. Would you support a "democratic" socialist because of your sustain for trump? Basically, would you support across the board government control of 90% of your life, raising the min wage so that all items increase 2 fold over whatever wage increase is established, etc?
IseWolf22
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statefan91 said:

I think of Bernie more as a Social Democrat, than a Socialist. At least based on my understanding of the overarching understanding of what a Social Democrat is. He just hasn't been aligned to the Democratic party.

"Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and social welfare provisions.[1][2][3] Due to longstanding governance by social democratic parties during the post-war consensus and their influence on socioeconomic policy in the Nordic countries, social democracy became associated with the Nordic model and Keynesianism within political circles in the late 20th century.[4] It has also been seen by some political commentators as a synonym for modern socialism[5][6][7] and as overlapping with democratic socialism.[8][9][10][11][12][13][14]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Bernie's proposals go far beyond any European country in terms of spend, and reach of Government. Nordic countries have been slowly rolling back their welfare state and are in some areas are more capitalist than the US (Free trade, banking, etc.). Norway in particular supports many of their benefits with proceeds from offsore oil drilling. They have huge reserves relative to their population.
IseWolf22
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RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent
RunsWithWolves26
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IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
statefan91
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Unless I misunderstand the machinations of the Government, I don't think Bernie will be able to implement the huge programs he envisions without bi-partisan support across Congress. I think Bernie would do what he could via his appointments and Executive Action but I don't think it would have a society changing impact.

I think it would be better to use money on social programs than spending $15B+ on the Space Force, for instance.
IseWolf22
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RunsWithWolves26 said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again
RunsWithWolves26
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statefan91 said:

Unless I misunderstand the machinations of the Government, I don't think Bernie will be able to implement the huge programs he envisions without bi-partisan support across Congress. I think Bernie would do what he could via his appointments and Executive Action but I don't think it would have a society changing impact.

I think it would be better to use money on social programs than spending $15B+ on the Space Force, for instance.


I tried twice which I knew was twice to many to get an answer to the question. I should have known better. Thanks for your time.
statefan91
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Sorry mate, I have you on ignore because I think you're a condescending jerk most of the time but it does pop up that you replied to me.

I will definitely vote for anyone before Trump.
RunsWithWolves26
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statefan91 said:

Sorry mate, I have you on ignore because I think you're a condescending jerk most of the time but it does pop up that you replied to me.

I will definitely vote for anyone before Trump.


Thanks for the answer. Figured you wouldn't be able to help yourself from adding to it with your normal name calling and tries at insults.
packgrad
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IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again
How much worse has your life gotten since Trump won? What makes his second term scare you so much?
IseWolf22
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packgrad said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again
How much worse has your life gotten since Trump won? What makes his second term scare you so much?

Well that's a big question we could go back and forth on for days. But for starters, his trade war is a drag on an otherwise good economy. The president has very little effect on short term economic conditions, but trade is one of the exceptions. He still maintains that US consumers don't pay tariffs which is a either a lie or a complete misunderstanding of basic economics.

His cabinet has been a revolving door with a huge amount of turnover and mini scandals. He's given me zero confidence that he can "hire the best" people or can run an executive office. He prioritizes loyalty and subservience over competence.

He's been terrible for the national debt. He campaigned on balancing the budget in 8 years and instead has increased the deficit by over $3 Trillion. He;s pumped up spending, cut taxes and when aids have expressed concern has said, ""Yeah, but I won't be here."

But lastly he is just a flat out embarrassing person to be associate with our country's leadership. He's a petty, vindictive, egomaniac. He's obsessed with his own image that he literally can't admit he is fallible and can be wrong. Sharpie-gate was the most Trump thing ever, digging in over a stupid, unimportant comment and pressuring agencies to lie and back him up. He lies about everything just for the hell of it and tweets like a sulking teenager.

I tried really, really hard to like Trump early in his term. I liked some of his initial cabinet and hoped he really would bring fiscal sanity to the government, reduce regulation, and get us our of the middle east. Regulation has been the only positive so far.

TLDNR; As a libertarian a big government authoritarian like Trump is the antithesis to what I look for in a President, both in substance and style.
Glasswolf
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packgrad said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again
How much worse has your life gotten since Trump won? What makes his second term scare you so much?


For me for the 1st time in 40 years I had to pay taxes last year. That's one thing
Payton Wilson on what he thought of Carter Finley: Drunk Crazy Crowded

cowboypack02
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Glasswolf said:

packgrad said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

IseWolf22 said:

RunsWithWolves26 said:

Can't wait to see the Trump/Sanders debates. Will the pure hatred of Trump cause people to vote for a self proclaimed socialist or will they put their hatred aside, hold their nose and vote against socialism. Sanders has called himself a socialist so I'm not using that as name calling.

Libertarian or Independent


I've seriously considered that but I truly believe that would election Sanders. As much as I don't like trump and didn't vote for him, Lord help the USA if Sanders actually won.
Pick your poison. Lord help us if Trump wins again
How much worse has your life gotten since Trump won? What makes his second term scare you so much?


For me for the 1st time in 40 years I had to pay taxes last year. That's one thing
You pay taxes every year. The government just keeps too much and you get a refund, but its already your money to start with. Did you adjust your withholding to take into account the new tax laws?
 
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