Rob McLamb said:

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This is the copy and paste of Elliott Avent and NC State's record versus league competition against each coach from the time that coach was hired by his current ACC employer.

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In my opinion the only coaches that have better resumes at their current schools than Avent are O'Connor at UVA, McDonnell at Louisville, and Hall at Georgia Tech, even though he hasn't made it to a Super Regional since 2006, hard to argue with 5 ACC titles in 7 appearances.

Also adding that the combination of Fox/Forbes at UNC has been better than Avent over the same time period but I am not ready yet to say Forbes by himself has been better than Avent. Then obviously Martin Sr had one of the best programs ever while he was at FSU but Jarrett has complete rebuild on his hands now.

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Rob McLamb said:

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wolf howl said:

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So does he just ride it out until he's ready to retire? He's been here a long time so making a couple of CWS is great but zero titles in the ACC is not. That's a really long time to not win anything of significance. We do well against the bottom of the conference and not so great against the top. Longevity isn't necessarily a winning formula for success.

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In my opinion, winning two Supers is of high significance. They even get trophies for doing it.

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wilmwolf80 said:

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Rob McLamb said:

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wolf howl said:

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So does he just ride it out until he's ready to retire? He's been here a long time so making a couple of CWS is great but zero titles in the ACC is not. That's a really long time to not win anything of significance. We do well against the bottom of the conference and not so great against the top. Longevity isn't necessarily a winning formula for success.

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In my opinion, winning two Supers is of high significance. They even get trophies for doing it.

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Yeah, the super regionals are huge. Getting to Omaha is a tremendous accomplishment given how grueling that run is. I don't know why some of our fans downplay that accomplishment. Not winning an ACC title sucks, but it's not as though we were winning them regularly before Avent - one in 92 and then you have to go back to the three year run in the 70s. Unlike coaches in our other big sports in similar droughts, he at least has gotten to the championship game at a fairly regular clip, and honestly just really unlucky to have not won it. I'm just tired of this same discussion every year. Fire him, push him out, whatever, everyone can be happy for a few months, and then it will be right back into the same *****ing and moaning in a year or two.

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wilmwolf80 said:

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Rob McLamb said:

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wolf howl said:

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So does he just ride it out until he's ready to retire? He's been here a long time so making a couple of CWS is great but zero titles in the ACC is not. That's a really long time to not win anything of significance. We do well against the bottom of the conference and not so great against the top. Longevity isn't necessarily a winning formula for success.

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In my opinion, winning two Supers is of high significance. They even get trophies for doing it.

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Yeah, the super regionals are huge. Getting to Omaha is a tremendous accomplishment given how grueling that run is. I don't know why some of our fans downplay that accomplishment. Not winning an ACC title sucks, but it's not as though we were winning them regularly before Avent - one in 92 and then you have to go back to the three year run in the 70s. Unlike coaches in our other big sports in similar droughts, he at least has gotten to the championship game at a fairly regular clip, and honestly just really unlucky to have not won it. I'm just tired of this same discussion every year. Fire him, push him out, whatever, everyone can be happy for a few months, and then it will be right back into the same *****ing and moaning in a year or two.

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wolf howl said:

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So does he just ride it out until he's ready to retire? He's been here a long time so making a couple of CWS is great but zero titles in the ACC is not. That's a really long time to not win anything of significance. We do well against the bottom of the conference and not so great against the top. Longevity isn't necessarily a winning formula for success.

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wolf howl said:

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ncsuchris said:

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wolf howl said:

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So does he just ride it out until he's ready to retire? He's been here a long time so making a couple of CWS is great but zero titles in the ACC is not. That's a really long time to not win anything of significance. We do well against the bottom of the conference and not so great against the top. Longevity isn't necessarily a winning formula for success.

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Can we start a tally for ummm....let's just say, posts of this variety?

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I know it's crazy talk to expect a championship from a coach who's been here a quarter century especially given the talent some of those teams have had.

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Rob McLamb said:

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Nairo said:

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Both sides can be right here. Avent has had a very good, consistent career despite substandard facilities and a lack of support from the athletics and school administration. On the other hand, our talent right now is as low as it's ever been, and we are trending down, so it might be time for him to step down and allow the program he loves to get some fresh blood. I do not believe he should be fired, but do believe his time for a dignified exit has come. We owe him our gratitude for running a clean, consistently strong program despite many obstacles of our own creation.

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Again, I never want to begrudge anyone the right to post their opinion, but this is just fundamentally wrong to me.

Let's break it down somewhat.

"...our talent right now is as low as it's ever been..."

The talent is what NC State would have had if someone else coached the team. No other coach would have turned down NC State's players or not recruited most of them. Any coach would have taken Green, who was a 15th-round selection out of high school. Most would have taken Gupton, Trice, Candelaria, Groover, Soles, Cozart or etc. NC State is actually a fairly young team. Most of the players return.

Talent is not a problem. If talent alone would have done the job, NC State would have been great in 2014. If you look at the two seasons following 2013 and juxtapose them to the two seasons after 2021, there is not a significant difference in how well the Wolfpack is doing. One team did not make it and the other team is close. That describes both situations.

In 2014 NC State could not hit. In 2023, the Wolfpack has not fielded the ball well.


"...we are trending down..."

What are the criteria for this?

Is it the fact that NC State missed the tournament? If so, missing the tournament is a bummer, but if you hold NCSU to the 2021 standard, you are almost certain to fail. Only two other Wolfpack teams could ever maintain that standard. Historically, this is what happens at NC State. After great teams, they have to reboot somewhat.

Of course, there had to be some form of rebuild. Look at NC State's regular starting eight (sans pitcher) in 2021. How many came back in 2022? Most of the best players left.

Another reason I'm afraid I have to disagree with thinking it trends down is recruiting. Every measurable says that NC State is recruiting exceptionally well in 2023, 2024, and 2025 classes.

I recently talked to a 2025 kid (NOTE: Article coming soon). He pitched a perfect game in the state playoffs (on the road) and is ranked the number five left-handed pitcher in the state in one of the publications.

The 2025 class is massive for NC State in two ways:
1. The talent is astounding.
2. Avent, Hart, and Chrysler basically beat the clock to get the commitments of those players because a new NCAA rule now prohibits coaches from talking to them at this point in their high school career (they are now not far along enough in school).

The following three incoming classes also benefit from the Doak renovations, whatever it ends up being worth. So as the Wolfpack picks up steam, it will play in the nicest facilities it has ever had.

I am telling you all now, do not be surprised if within the next five seasons (2024-2028), NC State makes another one or two runs into the CWS and wins a national title. The Wolfpack is building a giant.

Who knows? NC State may even win an ACC title within the next five seasons too.

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Rob McLamb said:

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65Pack said:

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Unreal… lots of words to glorify mediocrity. Going to miss the ncaa tournament two yrs in a row and we aren't trending down? Ok
Our standards are so low across the board it just pitiful.

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And so little words used to demonstrate a lack of understanding as to what mediocrity really is.

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Redwolf said:

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CLTWolf said:

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Tittles?

My favorite.

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Well you know judge success as you see it and others get that privilege too. Without being mocked or scorned.
That's wise for either side of this coin.

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