CLTWolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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CLTWolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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CLTWolf said:

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Packfan8 said:

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nryanh94 said:

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WolfpackSI said:

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Heard on the packpride podcast that there will almost certainly be staff changes. Anyone have any insight on this? Was surprised to hear that

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Well. They also said that last year, so

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Now others are vocally reporting that multiple sources say keatts is done. Brian rauf is the 1st to publicly report

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Who are the "others". With something like this you need to show your work. haha

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You mean like they do with those "crystal ball" thingys where they can change their picks everytime the weather changes?

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Something like that. This Rauf character is an assistant wealth management advisor that blogs in his free time. I can't imagine he's gonna have the "scoop" right now. Maybe he does, I dunno.

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Does he even have any State connections? I haven't been able to determine any so far, but what do I know?

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He's 30ish or younger from Cary (Green Hope grad), Duke fan, that went to SCar. He's been trying to get into the journalism game for a while but he's still just a blogger type. To his credit he keeps pumping out content.

Nothing points to him having legit sauces. Ha

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LOL. So his source is someone he knows from growing up in Cary that is a random State grad / fan that may or may not have any legitimate connections... that about figures.

TheStorm said:

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CLTWolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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CLTWolf said:

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TheStorm said:

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CLTWolf said:

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Packfan8 said:

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nryanh94 said:

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WolfpackSI said:

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Heard on the packpride podcast that there will almost certainly be staff changes. Anyone have any insight on this? Was surprised to hear that

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Well. They also said that last year, so

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Now others are vocally reporting that multiple sources say keatts is done. Brian rauf is the 1st to publicly report

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Who are the "others". With something like this you need to show your work. haha

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You mean like they do with those "crystal ball" thingys where they can change their picks everytime the weather changes?

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Something like that. This Rauf character is an assistant wealth management advisor that blogs in his free time. I can't imagine he's gonna have the "scoop" right now. Maybe he does, I dunno.

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Does he even have any State connections? I haven't been able to determine any so far, but what do I know?

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He's 30ish or younger from Cary (Green Hope grad), Duke fan, that went to SCar. He's been trying to get into the journalism game for a while but he's still just a blogger type. To his credit he keeps pumping out content.

Nothing points to him having legit sauces. Ha

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LOL. So his source is someone he knows from growing up in Cary that is a random State grad / fan that may or may not have any legitimate connections... that about figures.

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No idea, but if you read his latest blog post it sounds like he's reading IPS on the pay side. hahaha

Does it seem plausible that State would fire a coach whose record has gotten progressively worse each season, landing in this year's spot of DFL? Fire a coach who does not have a single instant impact player coming in next year but is losing at least one, maybe more impact players off of this year's DFL roster? A coach whose defensive approach/teaching consistently falls in the 300's nationally for failure and futility and whose offense consists of one idea, ball screen only, in every circumstance and at all times?
Boo has probably talked with Keatts and has some idea about the make up of next year's roster. Question: if that roster seems unlikely to lead to an NCAAT bid, then would you keep KKIW?

Westwolf said:

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Does it seem plausible that State would fire a coach whose record has gotten progressively worse each season, landing in this year's spot of DFL? Fire a coach who does not have a single instant impact player coming in next year but is losing at least one, maybe more impact players off of this year's DFL roster? A coach whose defensive approach/teaching consistently falls in the 300's nationally for failure and futility and whose offense consists of one idea, ball screen only, in every circumstance and at all times?
Boo has probably talked with Keatts and has some idea about the make up of next year's roster. Question: if that roster seems unlikely to lead to an NCAAT bid, then would you keep KKIW?

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Nope and this is what it boils down to for me. There is nothing (other than hope and optimism) to suggest next year will be significantly better. Either most of this same team is back, or the better players leave and Keatts is forced to hit the transfer portal hard. I do not feel confident in either of these strategies. Therefore, I think a change should be made. I also think Boo is probably an intelligent individual, and sees the logic and that the timing is right in the conference to go get our guy. If it ends up happening, which I think it will, it will just be a matter of him being able to find the right guy. Love Keatts as a person! But I don't think he's the right guy.

Change for who? What coach are you bringing in? Another "up and comer" to rebuild for another 5 years until we get impatient with those results? Our AD is not going t pay a legit coach. I sat, stick with Keats and maybe he pulls a DD. Give him time. Anything worth while takes time.

Acb0110 said:

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Change for who? What coach are you bringing in? Another "up and comer" to rebuild for another 5 years until we get impatient with those results? Our AD is not going t pay a legit coach. I sat, stick with Keats and maybe he pulls a DD. Give him time. Anything worth while takes time.

---

This is what you want your program to look like with a coach you're giving time to:

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/red-arrow-moving-up-over-graph-paper-picture-id1250237213?k=20&m=1250237213&s=612x612&w=0&h=_7-wKyJ_oc59MvugRckikVkB7aEkTSsMRO7w92LqzGQ=

This is what a program looks like when it's time to fire a coach:


Which one do we look like?

We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

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Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

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Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

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ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3
Season wins....21, 24, 20, 14, 10

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's. We missed out 4 OOC games due to the rona along with what would be normally played OOC pre-pandemic. The team missed out on 8-12 games last year and all of the post season the year prior.

We've been pretty flat.

CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

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Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

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You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

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Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

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Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

---

Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

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Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

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What do either of those things have to do with the ACC win % that's we were discussing?

nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

---

Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

---

Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

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What do either of those things have to do with the ACC win % that's we were discussing?

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It's not what I was discussing. But fair enough.
Depending on the outcomes of the 3 games not played last year, that % could've been anywhere from 45%-60%.

Regardless this program has been pretty flat and living on the NCAA bubble his entire time here it just now fell off the cliff this season whereas every season prior has felt almost "the same".

CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

---

Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

---

Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

---

What do either of those things have to do with the ACC win % that's we were discussing?

---

It's not what I was discussing. But fair enough.
Depending on the outcomes of the 3 games not played last year, that % could've been anywhere from 45%-60%.

Regardless this program has been pretty flat and living on the NCAA bubble his entire time here it just now fell off the cliff this season whereas every season prior has felt almost "the same".

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ACC wins is the stat you gave, so I assumed that's what we were going with. I think years 2-4 felt the same, 1 definitely felt higher and 4 was pretty bad until that run at the end. Honestly I feel like it started going down last year, but not to the point that he should have been on any type of hot seat.

CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

---

Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

---

Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

---

What do either of those things have to do with the ACC win % that's we were discussing?

---

It's not what I was discussing. But fair enough.
Depending on the outcomes of the 3 games not played last year, that % could've been anywhere from 45%-60%.

Regardless this program has been pretty flat and living on the NCAA bubble his entire time here it just now fell off the cliff this season whereas every season prior has felt almost "the same".

I would tend to agree with your "feeling the same" comment. If you take out his first season and this season, every other one has played out very similarly. However, I'm not sure being consistently mediocre is a ringing endorsement for our basketball coach (not saying you were using it in that way, but some would). At the end of the day, he seems unwilling/unable to make the tactical adjustments needed. And, since this is the recruiting thread, it doesn't seem that he is able to build an upper-echelon ACC roster. At least it appears that way to me.

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

nryanh94 said:

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Acb0110 said:

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Change for who? What coach are you bringing in? Another "up and comer" to rebuild for another 5 years until we get impatient with those results? Our AD is not going t pay a legit coach. I sat, stick with Keats and maybe he pulls a DD. Give him time. Anything worth while takes time.

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This is what you want your program to look like with a coach you're giving time to:

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/red-arrow-moving-up-over-graph-paper-picture-id1250237213?k=20&m=1250237213&s=612x612&w=0&h=_7-wKyJ_oc59MvugRckikVkB7aEkTSsMRO7w92LqzGQ=

This is what a program looks like when it's time to fire a coach:


Which one do we look like?

---

And what did DD look like through 2019? Avg to suck, then it started to work. Culture takes time to build. KK has had some crazy abnormal stuff to work with. Covid for one. Injuries. NCAA. Had two top recruits not come to school. Just saying, unless we spend big to get a Huggins type, then I don't see the point of starting over just to end up back here in 5 years about to ditch the new guy bc he hasn't won anything yet.

Have you ever built a business? If so, then you know it takes a minimum 5 years to turn profit in a legitimate way, and even that is only for those who are lucky. Most business takes 7-9 years before taking off, unless you start with $20million from jump.

wolfpackjb said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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We are more flat until this season where we fall off the cliff.

---

Are we? 3rd to start, then I guess flat with 8, 6 and 9, then 15

---

ACC wins....11, 9, 10, 9, 3

Last year's 9 is without 3 conf games that were cancelled due to the rona. Of course those 3 could've all resulted in L's.

---

You can't really look at wins because they went from an 18 game ACC schedule to a 20. He went from 61% to 50% in years 2 and 3, to 53%, to now 20%

---

Then you shouldn't look at the last two years prior to this one in that case. Zero post season in what could've been an NCAA tourney season and as I've stated (edited to add, my bad) above the team missed out on at least 8-12 games last year.

---

What do either of those things have to do with the ACC win % that's we were discussing?

---

It's not what I was discussing. But fair enough.
Depending on the outcomes of the 3 games not played last year, that % could've been anywhere from 45%-60%.

Regardless this program has been pretty flat and living on the NCAA bubble his entire time here it just now fell off the cliff this season whereas every season prior has felt almost "the same".

I would tend to agree with your "feeling the same" comment. If you take out his first season and this season, every other one has played out very similarly. However, I'm not sure being consistently mediocre is a ringing endorsement for our basketball coach (not saying you were using it in that way, but some would). At the end of the day, he seems unwilling/unable to make the tactical adjustments needed. And, since this is the recruiting thread, it doesn't seem that he is able to build an upper-echelon ACC roster. At least it appears that way to me.

---

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I'm fine if we keep him and give him a chance to get past the NCAA bullsht and rona. I do think he's a good coach but I'm also fine if we cut bait and let him go. I just don't care enough either way.

That's not apathy, it's more that I know I can't control anything. haha
I still watch every game that comes on.

I also don't believe in getting rid of coaches every 5 or 6 years unless they've just been awful. We haven't seen 5 years of awful. When I say awful I mean the 10 combined years of Jeff Bzdelik/Danny Manning awful.

Keatts is still a relatively young head coach, he could use a legit old head on the bench next to him to bounce ideas off of. He's got to let go some for sure.

Portal is key and building off of the Shawn Phillips/Robert Dillingham signings/commits. Kids are going to want to play with Dillingham, just need to take advantage of that.

Acb0110 said:

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nryanh94 said:

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Acb0110 said:

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Change for who? What coach are you bringing in? Another "up and comer" to rebuild for another 5 years until we get impatient with those results? Our AD is not going t pay a legit coach. I sat, stick with Keats and maybe he pulls a DD. Give him time. Anything worth while takes time.

---

This is what you want your program to look like with a coach you're giving time to:

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/red-arrow-moving-up-over-graph-paper-picture-id1250237213?k=20&m=1250237213&s=612x612&w=0&h=_7-wKyJ_oc59MvugRckikVkB7aEkTSsMRO7w92LqzGQ=

This is what a program looks like when it's time to fire a coach:


Which one do we look like?

---

And what did DD look like through 2019? Avg to suck, then it started to work. Culture takes time to build. KK has had some crazy abnormal stuff to work with. Covid for one. Injuries. NCAA. Had two top recruits not come to school. Just saying, unless we spend big to get a Huggins type, then I don't see the point of starting over just to end up back here in 5 years about to ditch the new guy bc he hasn't won anything yet.

Have you ever built a business? If so, then you know it takes a minimum 5 years to turn profit in a legitimate way, and even that is only for those who are lucky. Most business takes 7-9 years before taking off, unless you start with $20million from jump.

---

1. Doeren took over a much much ****tier situation, and took us from a 3 win season to 9 win season by year 5 (2nd place in the division) and then followed it up with a 9 win season, so nah lol. He showed he was building up and then had a bad year. Keatts on the other hand started off hot, then faded to average 6-9 in conference, then fell off a Cliff.

2. Comparing building a business to putting together a solid basketball team isn't even a comparison, there have several coaches who have gotten things going at a program in a shorter time than Keatts and not been dead ****ing last in their conference (during a already down year)

3. Everyone has had to deal with covid, everyone has to deal with injuries, the 2 recruits not coming in is unfortunately the risk you take and not having a back up plan is on him as the coach. He gets paid almost $3mm a year to figure it out, it's more the equivalent of having an established business and bringing in a ceo with a high salary to fix it and then sales go down drastically by his 5th year.

Dennis Smith III said:

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

---

Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

CLTWolf said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

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Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

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Mike White!!!!

I'm surprised we haven't seen Cooley mentioned

Didn't he sign a 10-year extension in 2019?

Dennis Smith III said:

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Didn't he sign a 10-year extension in 2019?

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No idea, but buyouts can be negotiated. That's not me suggesting him btw, I just know some on here have loved him in the past

nryanh94 said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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Didn't he sign a 10-year extension in 2019?

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No idea, but buyouts can be negotiated. That's not me suggesting him btw, I just know some on here have loved him in the past

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Cooley would be great, but it seems like that would be a really major buyout. It was reported as a 10-year extension in the $30-40 million range

CLTWolf said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

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Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

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That argument for not hiring a Murray State coach is like the argument for not drafting an Ohio State quarterback. The success of previous coaches after Murray State has no predictive value when it comes to McMahon's success after Murray State. All of his indicators are great.

Isn't Jans in the same boat as McCasland when it comes to having no connections to NC?

Agreed on Moton and Rhoades. Bryce Drew would be pretty underwhelming though IMO, and White has been kind of meh at Florida and is getting paid more than Keatts

Dennis Smith III said:

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CLTWolf said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

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Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

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That argument for not hiring a Murray State coach is like the argument for not drafting an Ohio State quarterback. The success of previous coaches after Murray State has no predictive value when it comes to McMahon's success after Murray State. All of his indicators are great.

Isn't Jans in the same boat as McCasland when it comes to having no connections to NC?

Agreed on Moton and Rhoades. Bryce Drew would be pretty underwhelming though IMO, and White has been kind of meh at Florida and is getting paid more than Keatts

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Allow me to list them all...
Ron Greene
Steve Newton
Scott Edgar
Mark Gottfried (!)
Tevester Anderson
Mick Cronin
Billy Kennedy - he's a maybe as he did ok at Texas AM but for some reason hasn't landed another gig
Steve Prohm

Who's the program builder? Everyone just goes there and wins. I like the dude I'm just very weary of the Murray State pipeline as actual program builders.

Jans has spent many years at JUCOs, I ain't worried about those dudes when it comes to recruiting. They recruit all over. He's basically Steve Forbes. Both from Iowa but have coached all over. McCasland is all Texas all the time except for the one year at Ark State.

Bryce Drew might be underwhelming but he can coach and recruit as well.

White makes about 300K more than Keatts. Last I knew, Keatts was in the 2.8 mil range, no?

I'm gonna offend everyone and say Mark Turgeon

CLTWolf said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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CLTWolf said:

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Dennis Smith III said:

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KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

---

Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

---

That argument for not hiring a Murray State coach is like the argument for not drafting an Ohio State quarterback. The success of previous coaches after Murray State has no predictive value when it comes to McMahon's success after Murray State. All of his indicators are great.

Isn't Jans in the same boat as McCasland when it comes to having no connections to NC?

Agreed on Moton and Rhoades. Bryce Drew would be pretty underwhelming though IMO, and White has been kind of meh at Florida and is getting paid more than Keatts

---

Allow me to list them all...
Ron Greene
Steve Newton
Scott Edgar
Mark Gottfried (!)
Tevester Anderson
Mick Cronin
Billy Kennedy - he's a maybe as he did ok at Texas AM but for some reason hasn't landed another gig
Steve Prohm

Who's the program builder? Everyone just goes there and wins. I like the dude I'm just very weary of the Murray State pipeline as actual program builders.

Jans has spent many years at JUCOs, I ain't worried about those dudes when it comes to recruiting. They recruit all over. He's basically Steve Forbes. Both from Iowa but have coached all over. McCasland is all Texas all the time except for the one year at Ark State.

Bryce Drew might be underwhelming but he can coach and recruit as well.

White makes about 300K more than Keatts. Last I knew, Keatts was in the 2.8 mil range, no?

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Yeah, that's about right for Keatts - frankly I don't know a lot about how buyouts work, but it just seems like prying a guy away from a school like Florida when he's already making more than our current coach would be a tall task.

I do understand that it can be hard to determine how good a guy is when he took over an already successful program, and that's why Bob Richey is appealing to me - he took his program to heights that they hadn't seen before. But McMahon does currently have Murray State at their highest KenPom ranking ever, he's plugged into North Carolina, and him having coached and developed Ja Morant is maybe the most appealing thing to me.

Also, Gottfried and Prohm were solid coaches for a while!

None of the coaches listed above seem better than sticking with the plan. Changing business models costs a ton of money. I think Keats can figure it out. If after next year he shows no progress, then move on. Moving on after this years seems a little premature.

Unless state actually wants to fork over real money for a real coach. @Nyrhan, growing a business is a coaching job. Literally the same concepts. Also, tell me how many teams lost 4 if men this year and are winning? How many teams are winning with 1 senior? Also, you forgot the NCAA investigation which may have been why Keats had to take chances on those two misses that never showed up. Also, DD was very much on the hot seat in 2020. Stay the course or hire a major coach who has already figured it out. Unfortunately, those guys ain't coming to state unless you back up multiple dump trucks of cash to their driveway.

Acb0110 said:

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None of the coaches listed above seem better than sticking with the plan. Changing business models costs a ton of money. I think Keats can figure it out. If after next year he shows no progress, then move on. Moving on after this years seems a little premature.

Unless state actually wants to fork over real money for a real coach. @Nyrhan, growing a business is a coaching job. Literally the same concepts. Also, tell me how many teams lost 4 if men this year and are winning? How many teams are winning with 1 senior? Also, you forgot the NCAA investigation which may have been why Keats had to take chances on those two misses that never showed up. Also, DD was very much on the hot seat in 2020. Stay the course or hire a major coach who has already figured it out. Unfortunately, those guys ain't coming to state unless you back up multiple dump trucks of cash to their driveway.

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Show me one shred of evidence that "our business is growing" other than the kids play hard. Wanna talk about how we went from a consistent top 15 program in attendance (in spite of years of suckage) to barley being able to fill half the lower bowl for an in state conference game? Arizona has been under the ncaa bubble and they're currently top 5 in the nation. The having 1 senior in the roster is entirely on Keatts, maybe don't take 3 project bigs in 1 class.

For Doeren, the evidence was simple. We had back to back 9 win seasons for the first time in history. We were getting substantially better recruiting classes than under O'Brien, we were consistently getting guy drafted and getting guys like Chubb on National Awards lists.

Dennis Smith III said:

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CLTWolf said:

---

Dennis Smith III said:

---

CLTWolf said:

---

Dennis Smith III said:

---

KenPom rankings since Keatts' first year: 46, 41, 50, 71, 129. That's the wrong direction. There are very obvious issues with KK's offensive and defensive schemes, and while he's faced a lot of misfortune, he hasn't given us a lot of reason to believe things will get better. At the same time, though, firing him risks losing Robert Dillingham, Terquavion Smith, maybe Judah Mintz... It's a pretty tough situation to navigate.

If Keatts really is done, the candidates that would get me the most excited are as follows:

Matt McMahon, Murray State: This is the guy we want, IMO.

• Currently has Murray State 26th in KenPom (their highest ranking ever) and 21st in the AP Poll
• 147-66 (.690 W-L%) overall; won three straight OVC regular season titles from 2018-2020 and two OVC tournament titles in that span
• Made it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 2019 with an upset over Marquette
• Played at Appalachian State and coached at both App State and UNC-W, so he has connections in North Carolina
• Coached Ja Morant, which is a HUGE selling point for recruits - especially a guard like Dilly - and also speaks to his ability to identify and develop talent (Ja was an unranked recruit and was drafted as the 2nd overall pick following his sophomore year; now a borderline superstar in the NBA)
• Just 43 years old

Bob Richey, Furman:

• Furman was never a top-100 KenPom team prior to Richey; they've been one every year since he's been head coach
• 106-44 (.707 W-L%) overall; set the Furman record with 25 wins in 2019 while getting them ranked for the first time ever (following a win over Villanova), and then matched that win total in 2020
• South Carolina guy, so semi-local, and has recruited some NC talent like Clay Mounce
• Just 38 years old

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant:

• His dad, Kelvin Sampson, is one of the best college coaches ever; he's been learning under him at Houston since 2014, and they've been one of the most successful programs in the country during that time period
• He was an assistant at App State, so he has connections in NC; he's helped recruit some high-level NC talent like Nate Hinton, Caleb Mills, and Rob Gray
• Just 36 years old

I would also expect us to look at guys like Mike Rhoades (VCU) and LeVelle Moton (NCCU). Also worth mentioning Grant McCasland (North Texas), who has been the best mid- to high-major candidate for a couple of seasons now IMO but is a Texas guy through and through so the fit is a little iffy.

---

Everyone wins at Murray State. The only coach that's continued to win after Murray State is Mick Cronin, crazy, right?

I like Kellen Sampson but let's not over do it by saying his dad was one of the best "ever". Can you imagine the pissing and moaning if we hired an assistant coach? I'd be fine with it.

Moton is a hard pass.
Rhoades is meh
you nailed it with McCasland. Dude has coached one year outside the state of Texas.

Chris Jans is one of my favorites
I like Bryce Drew. He caught a sht deal at Vandy by a shtty AD that got rid of Drew just so he could hire his unc buddy Stackhouse and then he leaves for another gig.
Mike White has been discussed ad nauseam on the pay side. I get the cons of him but he's a good coach with obvious connections to Boo.

---

That argument for not hiring a Murray State coach is like the argument for not drafting an Ohio State quarterback. The success of previous coaches after Murray State has no predictive value when it comes to McMahon's success after Murray State. All of his indicators are great.

Isn't Jans in the same boat as McCasland when it comes to having no connections to NC?

Agreed on Moton and Rhoades. Bryce Drew would be pretty underwhelming though IMO, and White has been kind of meh at Florida and is getting paid more than Keatts

---

Allow me to list them all...
Ron Greene
Steve Newton
Scott Edgar
Mark Gottfried (!)
Tevester Anderson
Mick Cronin
Billy Kennedy - he's a maybe as he did ok at Texas AM but for some reason hasn't landed another gig
Steve Prohm

Who's the program builder? Everyone just goes there and wins. I like the dude I'm just very weary of the Murray State pipeline as actual program builders.

Jans has spent many years at JUCOs, I ain't worried about those dudes when it comes to recruiting. They recruit all over. He's basically Steve Forbes. Both from Iowa but have coached all over. McCasland is all Texas all the time except for the one year at Ark State.

Bryce Drew might be underwhelming but he can coach and recruit as well.

White makes about 300K more than Keatts. Last I knew, Keatts was in the 2.8 mil range, no?

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Yeah, that's about right for Keatts - frankly I don't know a lot about how buyouts work, but it just seems like prying a guy away from a school like Florida when he's already making more than our current coach would be a tall task.

I do understand that it can be hard to determine how good a guy is when he took over an already successful program, and that's why Bob Richey is appealing to me - he took his program to heights that they hadn't seen before. But McMahon does currently have Murray State at their highest KenPom ranking ever, he's plugged into North Carolina, and him having coached and developed Ja Morant is maybe the most appealing thing to me.

Also, Gottfried and Prohm were solid coaches for a while!

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Last I looked at White his buyout was quite manageable. He might be a guy looking to "reset" himself and having the connection to Boo through his dad ain't the worst deal ever.

Richey took over for Niko Medved who should get a lot of credit for Furman as well. He went to Drake and is now at Colorado State building them up. Is Niko a program builder or did he just have a great staff with Richey and the current Wofford coach, Jay McAuley on his bench? Another guy from the same conference that's doing very well is Lamont Paris (former Wisconsin asst). Of course he took over from Matt McCall who took over from Will Wade. McCall is sucking at UMASS right now and Wade is doing well at LSU. Is Paris up next?

Gottfried and Prohm were good until they had to build a program...then, not good. ha

I really don't know what to think about Prohm to be honest. He recruited well getting guys like Talen Horton-Tucker to Ames and others like Lindell Wigginton, Tyrese Haliburton and he did well with some transfers also so makes me think he could handle the portal?

*I just remembered that Billy Kennedy has early stage Parkinson's so that's probably why he's not a head coach anywhere at this point.

nryanh94 said:

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I'm gonna offend everyone and say Mark Turgeon

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If he brings Scott Spinelli with him I could be talked into it but if the Maryland fans bothered him....not sure NC State is the place for him. haha

CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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I'm gonna offend everyone and say Mark Turgeon

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If he brings Scott Spinelli with him I could be talked into it but if the Maryland fans bothered him....not sure NC State is the place for him. haha

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Idk man, I worked with Maryland fans the last 5 years in DC and they're some asses lol. I'd be down for some Spinelli and Manning action.

nryanh94 said:

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CLTWolf said:

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nryanh94 said:

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I'm gonna offend everyone and say Mark Turgeon

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If he brings Scott Spinelli with him I could be talked into it but if the Maryland fans bothered him....not sure NC State is the place for him. haha

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Idk man, I worked with Maryland fans the last 5 years in DC and they're some asses lol. I'd be down for some Spinelli and Manning action.

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I honestly wouldn't hate that staff. Get a 3rd assistant that's killer in the DMV to round it out.