IseWolf22 said:
SmaptyWolf said:
IseWolf22 said:
SmaptyWolf said:
hokiewolf said:
I don't even think this is extreme libertarian ideas. It's just magic beans. It can happen!! You just have to give up all your entitlements and military and everything else. Then poof! No income tax!
A good friend of mine is a hardcore Libertarian... very active in the Libertarian Party of NC, has only voted for Libertarian candidates his entire adult life. We've had a million friendly debates, and I can assure you that their animating principle is that "taxation is theft", and their optimal tax rate is zero. They're also the ones pushing to end "fiat currency" and a bunch of other wacky stuff targeted at eliminating the federal government (while paradoxically venerating the Constitution that defines the federal government).
Anway, much like MAGA is currently fantasizing that Democratic Socialists are taking over the entire party (they aren't), Libertarians have spent the last couple decades infiltrating the Republican party and remaking it in their image... most of their radical ideas are to some degree mainstream conservative thinking now, they've just been softened for public consumption and no one talks about their logical conclusions.
Ever wonder why, no matter what, Republicans always push for another tax cut when they get a chance, with no discussion of what the optimal tax rate might actually be to pay for the superpower economy that everyone is now taking for granted?
Since the deficit is a hot topic right now, here's a fun chart... a look at our debt in a parallel universe without the Bush and Trump tax cuts:
Libertarians have practically zero influence in today's Republican party. Trump and MAGA have purged libertarians as much as they have so called RINOs. You may have had a point about libertarian infiltration back in 2010-2015, but it's completely reverted and more. Trump is possibly the least libertarian president you can imagine.
You mean except for Republicans just liquidating as much of the federal government as they could possibly get away with, propping up crypto and going to war with the Fed and "fiat currency", once again dramatically cutting taxes despite it being fiscally insane, etc, etc.
Like most fascists, Trump doesn't have any discernible ideology, and half the time looks like a raging socialist. But there's no doubt that libertarians have their hands on the wheel, too. Just make sure Trump is getting his beak wet or consolidating his power and it's a policy free for all for everyone around him... he couldn't care less.
You're just describing reactionaries, not libertarians. Both may want to cut government but their is little to no overlap beyond that. This admin really isnt reducing government at all. They've cut in some areas and expanded it in others, with a net result of an even larger government and a larger debt.
Who exactly are the libertarians in this admin? In past Republicans Congresses and presidential admins, you could generally point to prominent people of influence. That's gone. People like Miller openly mock libertarianism.
This is definitely getting into the weeds. There's obviously a spectrum of people who call themselves Libertarian, and I think for a lot of folks it's just become a synonym for "independent conservative". Third-party voting Libertarians are a different animal, who don't even consider Republicans like Massie and Paul to be "real" Libertarians, but Libertarian ideas since the Goldwater and Reagan era have infused into mainstream Republican thinking even for politicians who don't call themselves Libertarian at all.
Anyhoo, my original point was that extreme Libertarians, including many of the Libertarians luminaries, have views that are easily just as radical and loony as the most extreme Marxists... they're essentially mirror images of each other. The official Libertarian Party platform even adopts much of their extreme language in its ideals, even though the reality of getting elected makes a lot of it aspirational.
It's a fair point that guys like Stephen Miller are straight up fascists who want to expand federal power in an effort to create a strong man government, and Massie in particular got crapped on pretty hard for not playing ball (most Republicans congressmen are pathetic and are just keeping their heads down)... but Trump is still beholden to the million dollar checks being written by Musk and the other Silicon Valley "Techno-Libertarian" weirdos.
