Also, declassifying these docs wont matter based on how MG laid the 3 charges....Thats what Im hearing now at least.
Mar-A-Lago is raided by FBI agents
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Last: 2 mo ago by Werewolf
Not surprised. What doesn't matter is the law and the truth….we've seen ample evidence that when the powers-that-be want their way, neither of these matter.High Travoltage said:
Also, declassifying these docs wont matter based on how MG laid the 3 charges....Thats what Im hearing now at least.
Tulsi Gabbard chimes in.
Tulsi Gabbard rips Trump raid: This 'has set our country on a dangerous new course' https://t.co/rzJqNI2lX8
— Fox News (@FoxNews) August 13, 2022
TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
TDS is real.
TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
We are definitely in dark times…. We have two prominent people now eluding to execution for Trump. Michael Beschloss (historian) and Gen. Michael Hayden making these outlandish insinuations could, in fact, push this country closer to civil war.
The man that was killed for the FBI field office attack is… well, was this a moment, in time, that proves a civil war, is beginning. I don't know; however, I believe we are at a precarious place, in history…
The Mara Lago raid (yes, it was a raid) was another moment, in time, that really needs to stay in our mind. I know some, on here, want to see Trump in jail; however, we all better be careful what we ask for…. The retaliation will be bigger than the initial attack (I'm using these words because I believe we are on the precipice of Civil War).
I'm not a big fan of deflecting to what others have done; however, realistically, we should do this, at this point in time. Obama took a ton of documents, when he left the White House. Where was the outrage? My point is that this is asymmetrical at best, and creating a civil divide, like we've never seen before.
I certainly understand people don't like Trump and I'm not really questioning why that's the case. I try and speak of what I do like about him. Sure, people see that he has warts (I've said that before); and, I don't always agree with those warts. People have preferences and guess what… they are different. Kind of like Ice Cream.
We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…
The man that was killed for the FBI field office attack is… well, was this a moment, in time, that proves a civil war, is beginning. I don't know; however, I believe we are at a precarious place, in history…
The Mara Lago raid (yes, it was a raid) was another moment, in time, that really needs to stay in our mind. I know some, on here, want to see Trump in jail; however, we all better be careful what we ask for…. The retaliation will be bigger than the initial attack (I'm using these words because I believe we are on the precipice of Civil War).
I'm not a big fan of deflecting to what others have done; however, realistically, we should do this, at this point in time. Obama took a ton of documents, when he left the White House. Where was the outrage? My point is that this is asymmetrical at best, and creating a civil divide, like we've never seen before.
I certainly understand people don't like Trump and I'm not really questioning why that's the case. I try and speak of what I do like about him. Sure, people see that he has warts (I've said that before); and, I don't always agree with those warts. People have preferences and guess what… they are different. Kind of like Ice Cream.
We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
I know you have, amd just as you accuse me, it makes you blind to his damage.
So then look at his whole life he's always been divisive and difficult. Powerful, sure, but divisive. For leaders, words matter, and what he has proven over the last six years is his most effective mean of comms is to point out and exacerbate the differences in people, seeding more divide
Now, let's be clear, the media and other powerful folks who oppose Trump contributed significantly to the divide, but he has zero ability to stay above a fray.
You talk about civil war yet he's the guy who led this lie about a stolen election and clearly worked up a bunch of dumb people to attack the Capitol. That was not Obama, nor the media, nor Bechloss, nor anyone else. It was months of Trump speaking the same lie that fueled the discontent
Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
We know it's difficult for lying-guys like Packchem to admit his TDS. It's ok.
Reasoned argument is not TDS
hokiewolf said:
Reasoned argument is not TDS
It's the same tropes they always attack people with. Grown ass men calling others names to "own the libs" lol. Boring
The hypocrisy of the pretindependents is hilarious.
FBI Cincy attack: more coming out that the guy was politically motivated
On Truth Social, a site started by Trump, an account with Shiffer's name published a post after the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago telling others to "get whatever you need to be ready for combat." On Thursday at 9:30 a.m., he wrote another post that seemed to indicate he was writing after attempting to enter the FBI building.
"Well, I thought I had a way through bullet proof glass, and I didn't," he wrote. "If you don't hear from me, it is true I tried attacking the F.B.I., and it'll mean either I was taken off the internet, the F.B.I. got me, or they sent the regular cops."
Yeah, we were so much better under Trump, a time where some conservatives lost respect for institutions such as the FBI, CIA and now we have attacks on them
On Truth Social, a site started by Trump, an account with Shiffer's name published a post after the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago telling others to "get whatever you need to be ready for combat." On Thursday at 9:30 a.m., he wrote another post that seemed to indicate he was writing after attempting to enter the FBI building.
"Well, I thought I had a way through bullet proof glass, and I didn't," he wrote. "If you don't hear from me, it is true I tried attacking the F.B.I., and it'll mean either I was taken off the internet, the F.B.I. got me, or they sent the regular cops."
Yeah, we were so much better under Trump, a time where some conservatives lost respect for institutions such as the FBI, CIA and now we have attacks on them
caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
Cary please just look at his actions. They are not for the good of this country. He is selfish and wants power not for good but for self serving needs of power for his ego.
I know you want what is best for your country but this man is not the way.
We disagree on what some principles should be for this country but we both want good.
Warrant in FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was 'clearly politically motivated': Trump lawyer https://t.co/OR2muU10hR
— Fox News (@FoxNews) August 13, 2022
Rich, I do think Trump has been over the target for a long time. In his inauguration address, Trump talked to the people, in the audience and said (I paraphrase): for too long, as these people are getting rich (he points to the people behind him: congressional people), you all (he points to the supporters out front attending) have been taking it on the cheek.Wolfpackrich1 said:caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
Cary please just look at his actions. They are not for the good of this country. He is selfish and wants power not for good but for self serving needs of power for his ego.
I know you want what is best for your country but this man is not the way.
We disagree on what some principles should be for this country but we both want good.
I believe that comment sealed the deal of what was about to come. Rich, I will put a ton of crappy stuff, to the side, as I believe, this country is so far upside down, that it's sickening! As much as you (please take this with respect) see the warts of Trump, I see an attempt to flip the government upside down. In my opinion, that is something that "HAS" to be done.
Unfortunately, for the people that only see the warts on Trump, you (my opinion) are missing the greater points that supporters want to happen. The elected officials all (mostly) get to congress and get wealthy. That's a major problem for a functioning Representative Republic. It doesn't work! Add in, the appointed and career administrative employees, we are falling into deep trouble.
So, yes… I want a complete destruction and rebuild of the administrative state and for that matter, we can stand to lose a significant portion of the departments at the federal level. The way I see it, Trump is the "ONLY" person capable of making that happen. As you and others squabble about his personality, I look at the only way to save our Republic is in the hands of a few, with Trump being the leader. At this point, I wish I felt DeSantis was capable of doing it; however, I don't! It's going to take someone with brass balls to get it done!
I guess I will not agree with you Rich, Chem, and others as I believe our goals are so far a part, it's not bridgeable! That's ok! I ask that you don't judge (I do appreciate you realizing I want what's good for the country) and I will stand clear as well…
Our ideas of what's good are probably just too different. Again, that's ok…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
I can, and always have, respected this take.
I think I'm tired of being called names like we're in kindergarten and that's when it gets unnecessarily personal. It's not about the direction of America at that point, it's just about "owning the libs" and it's not productive. The constant stream of comments about TDS, participation trophies, being too young, "I'm in over my head" as someone put it…
There are several posters here who only embark on insulting others. There is very little real substance in their posts, all the while telling others that their posts are meaningless. This back and forth is utterly useless and all I see is them parroting Trump's personality
Thanks for putting these thoughts together Cary
I think I'm tired of being called names like we're in kindergarten and that's when it gets unnecessarily personal. It's not about the direction of America at that point, it's just about "owning the libs" and it's not productive. The constant stream of comments about TDS, participation trophies, being too young, "I'm in over my head" as someone put it…
There are several posters here who only embark on insulting others. There is very little real substance in their posts, all the while telling others that their posts are meaningless. This back and forth is utterly useless and all I see is them parroting Trump's personality
Thanks for putting these thoughts together Cary
Chem, you and I have could have been on the same page, until the end…. You espousing the "the big lie" narrative is just not helpful. I get it, you think it was done to conjure up support; however, I think, and have said this many time: I don't know what the truth is. There has been a ton of evidence to suggest something fraudulent happened. That said, at this point, nothing has made its way to changing any outcome. That still doesn't change the evidence presented.Packchem91 said:caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
I know you have, amd just as you accuse me, it makes you blind to his damage.
So then look at his whole life he's always been divisive and difficult. Powerful, sure, but divisive. For leaders, words matter, and what he has proven over the last six years is his most effective mean of comms is to point out and exacerbate the differences in people, seeding more divide
Now, let's be clear, the media and other powerful folks who oppose Trump contributed significantly to the divide, but he has zero ability to stay above a fray.
You talk about civil war yet he's the guy who led this lie about a stolen election and clearly worked up a bunch of dumb people to attack the Capitol. That was not Obama, nor the media, nor Bechloss, nor anyone else. It was months of Trump speaking the same lie that fueled the discontent
So, when you want to state your belief about the election, please do so with something like: it's my opinion…
You all criticize BBW for being dogmatic and calling people Marxist; however, your dogmatic approach can be viewed as "no better"! dumb people, huh? Start by setting the example…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Wolfpack, all I can do is control myself. Others, they are on their own…. BTW, I have mixed it up with the best of them, so, I'm no angel.Wolfpack said:
I can, and always have, respected this take.
I think I'm tired of being called names like we're in kindergarten and that's when it gets unnecessarily personal. It's not about the direction of America at that point, it's just about "owning the libs" and it's not productive. The constant stream of comments about TDS, participation trophies, being too young, "I'm in over my head" as someone put it…
There are several posters here who only embark on insulting others. There is very little real substance in their posts, all the while telling others that they're posts are meaningless. This back and forth is utterly useless and all I see is them parroting Trump's personality
Thanks for putting these thoughts together Cary
I do think my message is from a bigger perspective (you know the saying… from 20,000 feet), while others are arguing around the edges, at ground level. I get those edges are also important; however, I see a massive fundamental challenge that can get lost in the minutia of all the squabble (the edges).
Hopefully, my thoughts have helped and I appreciate you thanking me…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
caryking said:Rich, I do think Trump has been over the target for a long time. In his inauguration address, Trump talked to the people, in the audience and said (I paraphrase): for too long, as these people are getting rich (he points to the people behind him: congressional people), you all (he points to the supporters out front attending) have been taking it on the cheek.Wolfpackrich1 said:caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
Cary please just look at his actions. They are not for the good of this country. He is selfish and wants power not for good but for self serving needs of power for his ego.
I know you want what is best for your country but this man is not the way.
We disagree on what some principles should be for this country but we both want good.
I believe that comment sealed the deal of what was about to come. Rich, I will put a ton of crappy stuff, to the side, as I believe, this country is so far upside down, that it's sickening! As much as you (please take this with respect) see the warts of Trump, I see an attempt to flip the government upside down. In my opinion, that is something that "HAS" to be done.
Unfortunately, for the people that only see the warts on Trump, you (my opinion) are missing the greater points that supporters want to happen. The elected officials all (mostly) get to congress and get wealthy. That's a major problem for a functioning Representative Republic. It doesn't work! Add in, the appointed and career administrative employees, we are falling into deep trouble.
So, yes… I want a complete destruction and rebuild of the administrative state and for that matter, we can stand to lose a significant portion of the departments at the federal level. The way I see it, Trump is the "ONLY" person capable of making that happen. As you and others squabble about his personality, I look at the only way to save our Republic is in the hands of a few, with Trump being the leader. At this point, I wish I felt DeSantis was capable of doing it; however, I don't! It's going to take someone with brass balls to get it done!
I guess I will not agree with you Rich, Chem, and others as I believe our goals are so far a part, it's not bridgeable! That's ok! I ask that you don't judge (I do appreciate you realizing I want what's good for the country) and I will stand clear as well…
Our ideas of what's good are probably just too different. Again, that's ok…
Well said sir!
caryking said:Chem, you and I have could have been on the same page, until the end…. You espousing the "the big lie" narrative is just not helpful. I get it, you think it was done to conjure up support; however, I think, and have said this many time: I don't know what the truth is. There has been a ton of evidence to suggest something fraudulent happened. That said, at this point, nothing has made its way to changing any outcome. That still doesn't change the evidence presented.Packchem91 said:caryking said:We have two ways of looking at this: Trump is a maniac and very obstructive to the country or Trump is over the target and people want him gone!! You can chose your way, because, I certainly have…Packchem91 said:TheStorm said:Liberals? LOL. No, they do not... and based upon reading this board, neither do the pretendependants...High Travoltage said:
Do liberals even care that everything is worse under Brandon, or does life not get to factor into the debates?
Just as long as it's not Trrrruuuummmmpppp!
*And they won't even acknowledge that everything economically and financially was better for them under Trump policy...
I can't speak for liberals. But there are plenty of conservatives who (1) can't stand Biden and think he's been terrible and (2) think the US is not well served to have a guy like Trump as potus.
And I know this is difficult for label-guys like PG to understand, but it is also true for people who believe #2 to still want a change back to a GOP leader in the next election.
This is not a difficult concept to understand. I think we are better off without a divisive leader, and there has never been a more divisive leader than Trump.
I know you have, amd just as you accuse me, it makes you blind to his damage.
So then look at his whole life he's always been divisive and difficult. Powerful, sure, but divisive. For leaders, words matter, and what he has proven over the last six years is his most effective mean of comms is to point out and exacerbate the differences in people, seeding more divide
Now, let's be clear, the media and other powerful folks who oppose Trump contributed significantly to the divide, but he has zero ability to stay above a fray.
You talk about civil war yet he's the guy who led this lie about a stolen election and clearly worked up a bunch of dumb people to attack the Capitol. That was not Obama, nor the media, nor Bechloss, nor anyone else. It was months of Trump speaking the same lie that fueled the discontent
So, when you want to state your belief about the election, please do so with something like: it's my opinion…
You all criticize BBW for being dogmatic and calling people Marxist; however, your dogmatic approach can be viewed as "no better"! dumb people, huh?
Well of course it's my opinion. But let's be real clear - the Capitol was attacked. Capitol Police were attacked. They were attacked by people who were angry. Those people had just listened to an angry speech where a POTUS told them not to take the government stealing from them, a theme he's been harping on for months, and which has still it been proven (at least not in any large coordinated effort that was large enough to impact).
So if you want to seriously discuss contribution to this "civil war", then you have to acknowledge that that day, amd the months leading up to it where the POTUS kept saying he'd been robbed, was a major and in my opinion surely the biggest contribution.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/
Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.
McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
PackFansXL said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
Just shows that they are looking for anything they can to smear a former president and stop him from being reelected. Shows exactly what Cary is referring to when he talks about Trump being over the target. Scary and sad.... yet some think Trump is the problem. SMH
Steve Videtich said:PackFansXL said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
Just shows that they are looking for anything they can to smear a former president and stop him from being reelected. Shows exactly what Cary is referring to when he talks about Trump being over the target. Scary and sad.... yet some think Trump is the problem. SMH
Yep. And due to TDS, people are just fine with an open ended warrant in search of a crime, not because of a crime. Because Trump.
It is ok to disagree. I am good with that. I also appreciate the civil responses from you.
I agree with what Maher says here - if they did this for any reason other than a knockout blow, it will backfire and rekindle his support.
And, DeSantis probably hates this happened.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-admits-fbi-raid-saving-trump-politically-fortune-finally-falling
And, DeSantis probably hates this happened.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-admits-fbi-raid-saving-trump-politically-fortune-finally-falling
Steve Videtich said:PackFansXL said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
Just shows that they are looking for anything they can to smear a former president and stop him from being reelected. Shows exactly what Cary is referring to when he talks about Trump being over the target. Scary and sad.... yet some think Trump is the problem. SMH
Well you are reading the thoughts of a biased article / opinion piece, so of course it's going to reach this conclusion, but just as the Trump-stans here have admonished people trying to read too much into the nuclear comments, people will read too much into this guys guesses as well.
As for your last comment, yes, no doubt, Trump is part of the problem. Im more amazed at this point that you'd disagree with that thought
Chem, if you read the full article you will see plenty to appease your anti-Trump perspective. McCarthy's guesses were in the previous article, where he relayed his experience of many years as a prosecutor, reading the tea leaves by watching the actions of our extremely biased attorney general. It is no longer a guess because stated in the warrant, just as he predicted, was the requirement to grab every piece of paper related to Trump's time as POTUS.Quote:
Well you are reading the thoughts of a biased article / opinion piece, so of course it's going to reach this conclusion, but just as the Trump-stans here have admonished people trying to read too much into the nuclear comments, people will read too much into this guys guesses as well.
If you don't think that is related to Jan 6, why do you suppose a federal warrant would mention random artifacts from someone's former job.
BTW, defending the rule of law and approving of Trump's actions are not the same thing.
"Trump-stans" ??? Really? Chem, you are better than that BS.
People wonder why Trump is so divisive. Let's see they spied on his campaign before the election, spied on him in the White House, came up with fake news about Russia Collusion and other nonsense. This has been non stop since 2015. The main stream media won't do it's job and that is crucial to keep our Republic. If you have a D by your name, no matter how egregious the charges(cough Hunter, McCabe, Strozk, Page, Hillary) you skate and the media hides it with the help of Big Tech. The DOJ and now the IRS have become weapons against the American people. They have come after his family, including his 15 year old son and you wonder why he calls the press "the enemy of the people." They are. He has multiple reasons to be angry and he fights back, unlike many of his predecessors. That is why people will stand behind him.Steve Videtich said:PackFansXL said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
Just shows that they are looking for anything they can to smear a former president and stop him from being reelected. Shows exactly what Cary is referring to when he talks about Trump being over the target. Scary and sad.... yet some think Trump is the problem. SMH
If you think for a moment that if they do have a Tyrannical government, that they won't come after you if you agree with them. Well you are truly ignorant to think that. See Nazi Germany. The Brown shirts served a purpose to get people frightened. Hitler said OK we can stop them and he eliminated the brown shirts, then look what happened.
I have said this before and will say it again. If the Patriots had wanted to seize the Capitol on January 6th, they would still be holding it. The only person shot and killed on that day was shot by a Capitol Police officer. One officer died of natural causes and I believe it was 3 others were all severely beaten by the Police. The FBI was in on that and tried to stoke violence. Somebody had to open the 20,000 lb magnetic doors to let people in. You see officers opening the doors for people to come in. It was a set up. Not to mention the prisoners who have been held for 18 months with no hearings and no charges. At least 3 have committed suicide because of their plight. This is Banana Republic stuff and that is where we are heading.
You can either open your eyes to the fact or just completely say that "Orange Man is bad" and he needs to go away. He is the only one who has the balls right now to take on the Administrative Deep State and that is why the people love him. He gave up everything to try and save this country. He was rich, had a beautiful wife and could have just gone on his merry little way playing golf and having a great life. He decided that saving this Republic was for the good of all.
I didn't vote for Trump in 2016(I did not vote for the ***** either), but he kept his promises and earned my vote in 2020. We had the best economy ever, we were energy independent, and things were running smoothly until the Covid BS hit. The election was stolen. Anybody with any type of independent thought can see that. Trump stood up for us, WE THE PEOPLE, and now the people are standing up for him.
Think about it, what politician could ever draw the crowds he did during the election and they continue after the election. Nobody, because Trump is not a politician. Reagan was beloved by most of the country, but he couldn't even draw like Trump does to this day. He is an American who loves this county as it was founded on Liberty and Freedom. Freedom loving Patriots understand this and will support him no matter what warts he might have or what they try to manufacture against him.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
I'm not going to argue with you Chem, because I've learned that it's a complete waste of time. I just want to point out the fact that I used the phrase "is the problem" not "part of the problem."
I've also been on record saying that Trump is his own worst enemy and is a complete ass many times. But, it doesn't change my point of view on the state of politics in this country and what the man has revealed about the powers that be. If some of the actions taken in recent years aren't the least but worrisome, then I don't know what to say.
Now go argue with someone else...
I've also been on record saying that Trump is his own worst enemy and is a complete ass many times. But, it doesn't change my point of view on the state of politics in this country and what the man has revealed about the powers that be. If some of the actions taken in recent years aren't the least but worrisome, then I don't know what to say.
Now go argue with someone else...
PackFansXL said:Chem, if you read the full article you will see plenty to appease your anti-Trump perspective. McCarthy's guesses were in the previous article, where he relayed his experience of many years as a prosecutor, reading the tea leaves by watching the actions of our extremely biased attorney general. It is no longer a guess because stated in the warrant, just as he predicted, was the requirement to grab every piece of paper related to Trump's time as POTUS.Quote:
Well you are reading the thoughts of a biased article / opinion piece, so of course it's going to reach this conclusion, but just as the Trump-stans here have admonished people trying to read too much into the nuclear comments, people will read too much into this guys guesses as well.
If you don't think that is related to Jan 6, why do you suppose a federal warrant would mention random artifacts from someone's former job.
BTW, defending the rule of law and approving of Trump's actions are not the same thing.
"Trump-stans" ??? Really? Chem, you are better than that BS.
I don't consider you one, but you also know there are guys on this board who immediately say "tds" every time someone dares to question the guy. Amd outside this forum, there are plenty as well - some of whom will be hoping to cling onto his coat tails.
Was it Jan6 related? I don't know…amd I think it is purely guesswork at this point to suggest it is.
Steve Videtich said:
I'm not going to argue with you Chem, because I've learned that it's a complete waste of time. I just want to point out the fact that I used the phrase "is the problem" not "part of the problem."
I've also been on record saying that Trump is his own worst enemy and is a complete ass many times. But, it doesn't change my point of view on the state of politics in this country and what the man has revealed about the powers that be. If some of the actions taken in recent years aren't the least but worrisome, then I don't know what to say.
Now go argue with someone else...
I'm sorry, how insensitive of me to disagree with you on topics, on, of all things, a forum. Lol. Get over yourself.
Chem, Trump, in my opinion, is not part of the problem. I believe he is damn near all of the problem!!Packchem91 said:Steve Videtich said:PackFansXL said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/trump-warrant-furthers-justice-departments-january-6-investigation/Quote:
The Mar-a-Lago search warrant has been unsealed. Turns out it is what I told you it was going to be: an open-ended license to grab any item that might be relevant to the Justice Department's Capitol-riot investigation.
To be sure, the government is very interested in reclaiming every bit of classified information or, at least, information that it claims is classified in Donald Trump's possession at his Mar-a-Lago estate. The warrant, however, is not limited to evidence of classified-information crimes, not even close.McCarthy, a former prosecutor who is familiar with these techniques, says the warrant clearly proves his guess about the raid was spot on.Quote:
Where things get really, shall we say, elastic is subsection (c). It permits the seizure of "any government and/or Presidential Records created" throughout the four years of Trump's presidency.
Plainly, this has nothing to do with classified information. It is mainly designed to use the criminal law the search warrant, an intrusive tactic for retrieving evidence of crimes to enforce the Presidential Records Act, which is not a criminal statute.
My point for present purposes is that subsection (c) authorized the FBI agents to seize every scrap of paper from the Trump administration. There is no limitation to classified information. There is no limitation to the Presidential Records Act. There is no limitation to the unmentioned Capitol riot. Indeed, there is no requirement that any scrap of paper be connected in any way to any crime whatsoever. No restriction at all. If it was arguably a government record of any kind generated during the Trump presidency, the judge said the bureau could take it.
The FBI and Justice Department will be doing what I told you they'd be doing: Poring over everything and anything from Trump's presidency to try to make a January 6 case. What was executed at Monday's historically unprecedented search of a former American president's home was not a traditional search warrant to find evidence of specific crimes. It was certainly not a search warrant solely to retrieve vital national-defense secrets. This search warrant was a license for a fishing expedition. In an ocean.
The Justice Department is hoping the Trump trove will yield proof that he did not believe his stop-the-steal rhetoric and was willfully trying to steal by fraud and political pressure an election he knew he lost. I believe that is what the Justice Department thinks it needs to charge the former president with corruptly obstructing Congress's count of state-certified electoral votes, and with conspiring to defraud the government.
Whether they will find the needles in the haystack remains to be seen. But they made sure to get control of the haystack.
Just shows that they are looking for anything they can to smear a former president and stop him from being reelected. Shows exactly what Cary is referring to when he talks about Trump being over the target. Scary and sad.... yet some think Trump is the problem. SMH
Well you are reading the thoughts of a biased article / opinion piece, so of course it's going to reach this conclusion, but just as the Trump-stans here have admonished people trying to read too much into the nuclear comments, people will read too much into this guys guesses as well.
As for your last comment, yes, no doubt, Trump is part of the problem. Im more amazed at this point that you'd disagree with that thought
Now, we need to define the problem! That's where, the bid and the ask, is probably too far a part for, you and I.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Chem... and yet, we've not heard one more single word from you about this after the other night?Packchem91 said:Steve Videtich said:PackFansXL said:
have admonished people trying to read too much into the nuclear comments
Corner of your mouth still hurting from where that hook was set?
C'mon now... you've always got an opinion on anything and everything... even when you are flipping back and forth on a topic, as you are "wont" to do from time to time.
Please expound a little more about the "nuclear secrets" angle for us... Please?
Packchem91 said:Steve Videtich said:
I'm not going to argue with you Chem, because I've learned that it's a complete waste of time. I just want to point out the fact that I used the phrase "is the problem" not "part of the problem."
I've also been on record saying that Trump is his own worst enemy and is a complete ass many times. But, it doesn't change my point of view on the state of politics in this country and what the man has revealed about the powers that be. If some of the actions taken in recent years aren't the least but worrisome, then I don't know what to say.
Now go argue with someone else...
I'm sorry, how insensitive of me to disagree with you on topics, on, of all things, a forum. Lol. Get over yourself.
What do I need to get over? I said didn't want to argue with you. All I did was point out the error in your statement as you referenced it to mine.
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