statefan91 said:

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I'm not clear on what you're saying, are you against taxes in general or just in those that would help other people pay for healthcare?

Personally, I understand that I live in a society and my successes and failures are not borne in a vacuum. I understand that fractions of my income can be pooled with fractions of other's to help provide support for people that have no control of their situation. I'm ok with my taxes going to police, fire, EMT, the Army, food stamps, medicare, etc. I may never use some of those organizations / utilities but I'm ok with that because I am part of a society and that's just part of living in the society.

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I'm against any type of payroll taxes in general.

If we are going to pay taxes it should be a consumer tax and it should be plainly obvious where every penny of that tax money is going to everyone who is paying taxes in this country.

I admittedly don't know all the ins and outs of health insurance and the healthcare field but I wonder who all those top level people at the big insurance companies voted for in Nov? How about the upper level brass at big pharma companies? How many politicians in Washington are in bed with some of these people?

No matter what the issue is you can almost always find this kind of thing at the root of policy.

So you think consumer based taxes will be enough to pay for your roads, police, fire, EMT, Army, National Security?

That sounds like you should be prepared to pay 20%+ on taxes, or maybe a VAT.

statefan91 said:

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So you think consumer based taxes will be enough to pay for your roads, police, fire, EMT, Army, National Security?

That sounds like you should be prepared to pay 20%+ on taxes, or maybe a VAT.

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I'm great with paying a flat 20% on everything that I purchase if that means that I get to keep my entire paycheck. Everyone should be. Do you have any idea how much you actually pay in taxes every year?

statefan91 said:

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So you think consumer based taxes will be enough to pay for your roads, police, fire, EMT, Army, National Security?

That sounds like you should be prepared to pay 20%+ on taxes, or maybe a VAT.

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Consumer based taxes along with land taxes are preferred by most economists. There is less deadweight loss. Europe's social services are funded in a large part through VAT.

20% was a low estimate and my mistake for a consumer based tax. Would have to assume it would be significantly higher to allow for the unpredictability / variability of a consumer based structure. And yes unfortunately I do know how much I pay in taxes. I don't like paying thousands of dollars in taxes, but I also recognize that I'm part of a society that depends on taxes to function.

So you're saying maybe if we got rid of billions of foreign aid and other nonsense expenditures, we could do helpful things like actually provide baseline healthcare for citizens

I do completely agree with you that there is a ridiculous amount of money spent on things that should be reined in. I'd much rather see those billions go to the US citizens than foreign entities.

statefan91 said:

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So you're saying maybe if we got rid of billions of foreign aid and other nonsense expenditures, we could do helpful things like actually provide baseline healthcare for citizens

I do completely agree with you that there is a ridiculous amount of money spent on things that should be reined in. I'd much rather see those billions go to the US citizens than foreign entities.

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Pigs will fly for that to happen....but no. The government shouldn't be giving out welfare, paying for insurance, subsidizing segments of business, or anything else that they are doing. They can't manage it.

Even if you say something about Social Security and that being helpful...its not. We are constantly talking about there not being enough money to pay out in the future. The truth is that if the goverment took that money and placed in the market then we would all be very well off when we retired. The market have averaged 3% per year since it started. Imagine how well that money would be doing if you had that return....but you don't. Something so simple and the government screwed it up massively. Truthfully...I trust the goverment to spend the money that they have just about as well as i would trust a 25 year old with a bad meth habit.

cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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20% was a low estimate and my mistake for a consumer based tax. Would have to assume it would be significantly higher to allow for the unpredictability / variability of a consumer based structure. And yes unfortunately I do know how much I pay in taxes. I don't like paying thousands of dollars in taxes, but I also recognize that I'm part of a society that depends on taxes to function.

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But it doesn't have to be that way is my point.

Quite frankly the government spends like a drunken sailor in one of those 1840's bars with working women up stairs.

Our elected officials spend money like it isn't their's...which it isn't.

I can give you the perfect example. The new COVID bill will be 1.9 Trillion dollars. That's 1,900,000,000,000 dollars. Out of that the government is going to give us the privilege of giving back 1400.00 dollars to some of us.

Total Bill - 1,900,000,000,000
Per Person Payout - 1400.00
Total Amount (on 330 million people) - 462,000,000,000
Left over - 1,380,000,000,000

Where is the 1.38 Trillion dollars going? It ain't going to help me.....What part of society is that going to help?

• Are we gonna give another 40 million to the Kennedy Center? (after the 25 million they got earlier)
• Are we gonna sent another 4 billion dollars to central America?
• Are we gonna spend another 36.2 Billion dollars on Foreign aide out of this?
• How about 10 million for "gender programs" in Pakistan?
• Lets give the Smithsonian another 1 billion dollars
• Finally go ahead and wash that down with 86 million to Cambodia, 130 million to Nepal, 135 million to Burma, 453 million to Ukraine, and 300 million to Sudan

Here are a couple of other items in the COVID bill:

• Funds for the "Resource Study of the Springfield (Illinois) race riot - this occurred in 1908
• Funds for the "Statement of Policy Regarding the Succession or Reincarnation of the Dali Lama"
• Funds for the "Commission tasked with education consumers about the dangers associated with using or storing portable fuel containers for flammable liquids near an open flame"

Yeah....you keep thinking that the government it trying to help us with our tax money. I'll look at what the actual bill that they proposed is going to do with the money that was "*taken* from me.

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I agree with you completely. But don't forget it's only working aged adults making $75,000 or less ($150,000 married I think). So it's a lot less than 330 million getting those checks. Probably closer to half of that amount. Which makes it even worse.

I see the Dems voted for stimulus checks for undocumented workers.

Killing of oil and gas industry resulted in a vote to fund schools in those states impacted by this decision. So people are losing their high paying jobs, getting kicked out of an industry they have trained in for years with no equivalent green energy jobs. And tax payers get to foot the bill for the impacted schools.

And the list goes on from yesterday's vote-a-rama.

cowboypack02 said:

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....there are several democrats who have committee assignments who have said or done just as egregious, if not more so and all of those folks still have their seats. I guess that if it wasn't for double standards then we would have any standards at all. It also make me wonder how long before democrats decide to just start removing republicans from assignments just because they can. AOC has accused Ted Cruz of attempted murder....are the democrats in the Senate going to remove Cruz from assignments now?

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I followed that too. It's ridiculous. They shouldn't have this type of power (neither party).

Also followed the AOC trauma saga and the Dem trauma session last night. These are the same people that had no sympathy for the business owners, police, citizens impacted, threatened, injured and killed by the protesters all last year. Where were they for those funerals last year?

I don't disagree with them removing her and I think it sets a really bad precedent that will be used against them in the future.

However, I would have expected Republican leadership to take that step. She is a conspiracy theorist who thinks School Shootings are false flag events and harassers school shooting survivors. Someone like that doesn't belong on an Education committee.

Ok

Ok

packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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I don't disagree with them removing her and I think it sets a really bad precedent that will be used against them in the future.

However, I would have expected Republican leadership to take that step. She is a conspiracy theorist who thinks School Shootings are false flag events and harassers school shooting survivors. Someone like that doesn't belong on an Education committee.

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AOC shouldn't be on any committees either. Her conspiracy theory said Ted Cruz almost had her murdered. She wasn't even in the building where the people entered the Capitol.

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Neither should Ilian Omar or Maxine Waters...but both of them are.

Good - so we all agree extremists on either side shouldn't be on bipartisan committees.

statefan91 said:

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Good - so we all agree extremists on either side shouldn't be on bipartisan committees.

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Not holding my breath for Dems to apply the same standards to themselves.

packofwolves said:

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statefan91 said:

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Good - so we all agree extremists on either side shouldn't be on bipartisan committees.

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Not holding my breath for Dems to apply the same standards to themselves.

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And I won't be surprised if Republicans do it when they regain control of the House. In the words of Mitch McConnell - "winners make policy, losers go home"

statefan91 said:

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packofwolves said:

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statefan91 said:

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Good - so we all agree extremists on either side shouldn't be on bipartisan committees.

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Not holding my breath for Dems to apply the same standards to themselves.

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And I won't be surprised if Republicans do it when they regain control of the House. In the words of Mitch McConnell - "winners make policy, losers go home"

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Typical....... it's ok for you and your ilk to employ the same policies. But... when the GOP does it they are evil. You should really check out those reflecting surfaces. I hear they show who you really are. Not hard to figure out.

statefan91 said:

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Ok

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What pack grad said about AOC is not debatable. It is fact now!

statefan91 said:

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packofwolves said:

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statefan91 said:

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Good - so we all agree extremists on either side shouldn't be on bipartisan committees.

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Not holding my breath for Dems to apply the same standards to themselves.

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And I won't be surprised if Republicans do it when they regain control of the House. In the words of Mitch McConnell - "winners make policy, losers go home"

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McConnell is a globalist! He is bought and paid for by big money! He is weak! Primary the guy!!!

cowboypack02 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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packgrad said:

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statefan91 said:

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I don't disagree with them removing her and I think it sets a really bad precedent that will be used against them in the future.

However, I would have expected Republican leadership to take that step. She is a conspiracy theorist who thinks School Shootings are false flag events and harassers school shooting survivors. Someone like that doesn't belong on an Education committee.

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AOC shouldn't be on any committees either. Her conspiracy theory said Ted Cruz almost had her murdered. She wasn't even in the building where the people entered the Capitol.

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Neither should Ilian Omar or Maxine Waters...but both of them are.

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lol....i forgot about Eric Swalwell actually sleeping with a Chinese spy....that dude is still on a committee too,

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You have to give it to the Democrats... they are far more united than Republicans. Its simple, Republicans don't have the balls to jam through things like the Democrats....

I applaud the Democrats and wish the Republicans would only do the same. The world is divided; so, no need to be diplomatic anymore, just push like to Hell to change things when you are in control.

Perfect example: Obamacare!!! The Republicans sold a bill of goods to get elected and couldn't do it. Weak!!!

Here are the "victims" of the attempted murder. I'm sure many of our lefties on here can relate to how something "might" have happened and how they are traumatized from the mere possibility of pending doom!

CLOWN SHOW.

Nice, catch and release, covid or not.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-administrations-cbp-revives-catch-and-release-policy-at-border-amid-covid-concerns

Trump is the most honest person in America compared to this hack...

But yet she has yet to receive ANY criticism that Spicer, Sanders and McEnamy received. This is more than a double standard...it's down right unreal to think that the SOCIALIST PARTY has assumed control of the media and many support it.

Here is a prime example of how the SOCIALIST PARTY views their position in society, government and how they should control your lives completely. How can anyone with a stratight face say that the Marxist Maxine and members of the Flunky Bunch weren't inciting riots?

I've asked for the lefties on here to explain things to me from their perspective many timens on here. None have taken me up on it. I guess when faced with facts and someone willing to dispute their BS propaganda they don't have a leg to stand on. Typical..........

Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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What countries are analogous to us by your standards?

In what ways are the countries that have single payer different from us, such that we can't learn from their single payer experience?

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I do not find any country analogous. There are too many variables too many differences.

Again have you lived outside NC? Do you even have a passport?

US citizens get a bad rap from the world for transposing their beliefs and assuming everywhere is just like the US. This is what you are doing in reverse.

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Looking at how other first world countries have adopted single payers isn't transposing "their beliefs" on us; it's learning from their experience even if there are differences between our governments or populace and theirs.

Your continued questioning about living outside of NC, having a passport, etc. is so arbitrary and weird.

What does living in another state have to do with crafting federal law about domestic health care? What would me moving from Raleigh to Atlanta for work after college bring to bear on the issue of health care?

And yes, I've got a passport. Yes, I've traveled internationally including Europe.

If living abroad (either being foreign-born but naturalized and now eligible or being US-born but have lived abroad) was the standard for lawmakers to craft and implement laws about domestic policy you'd just have eliminated 90% or more of Congress.

I work in Canada as well as the U.S., civ that's a "foreign" country FYI.. they have SOCIALIZED health care. I work with 20+ individuals on a semi-regular basis and have for 15 years.

You know where they come when they need serious medical procedures? America. You know why? It's 18 months to get a mammogram. Some women have less than 3 to live once lumps are found and not removed. That's a short wait. Try having knee surgery, back surgery etc.... 2 - 3 years at best unless you are willing to pay private doctors out of pocket. Educate yourself more and maybe people wouldn't call you out on your lack of knowledge on subjects.

You know what will happen when you and the SOCIALIST PARTY gets your dream of single payer? All of those ILLEGALS that you are letting in this country will overrun the medical facilities with colds, sore throats etc...

Canada has closed borders and they'll deport your ass instantly. Sleepy Joe just opened the floodgate. Illegal immigration is up 178% in the last 20 days.

I know what your and your lefty friends' solution is. Higher taxes. Why don't you just skip all the BS and just institute a National Wage for everyone and just let the Government take control over everything.

Standardize healthcare, housing, eduction, wages etc.... Hell, don't stop there. Abolish all religion and history from say.... 2021 inauguration. Then you and your comrades can rewrite it the way you want.

Sound familiar? It should. Pick up a book for God's sake. What you and your ilk are doing to this country is going to end badly.

Please tell me where the Federal Government has the power to legislate healthcare in the constitution. please quote the specific clause in it.