Imho, this movement is dead. I could be wrong but I don't think the Republican Party can survive this. With the changing of demographics and future voters, I think you will see the change. Again, this is just my opinion and not intending to say if it's good or bad.
Election Interference/Fraud
275,038 Views |
3695 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by BBW12OG
They didn't stay home, 2020 was a historic turnout with more voters than ever before. Many non-voters showed up this year either because they loved or hated Trump.IseWolf22 said:tuffy1006 said:honestly I havn't looked at the numbers. I guess swing voters like myself stayed out of it last go around. I kinda just figured the swing voters mostly went Trump last time....I guess the reality most swing voters simply stayed home in 2016. My mistake for assuming wrongpineknollshoresking said:That's got to be the dumbest post to date...tuffy1006 said:After the crap that went down this past week I'm completely ok with any incoming party to pick and choose who protects their inauguration. If you dont like it then tough s***. Stop crying "rayufs" just because your damn side lost. Many people that voted Trump first time around did not vote for him again this time....how is that hard to believe? Denial aint a river in egypt. His dumb ass handled this pandemic like an idiot....this was the result. Your anger should be with Trump....but of course it never will bepineknollshoresking said:
I love it....
The Democrats are doing background check of all National Guard folks that are to be at the inauguration for protection. If you are found to have supported Trump, you will not be allowed to protect the inauguration as you will be classified as a threat to society.
Trump got ~ 12M more votes than in 2016
Either way, he lost the election fair and square. I didnt realize it was the landslide it was either this time.....so why are yall complaining about a landslide election? That didnt have to be rigged. Thats like complaining about the refs after Clemson pummels the crap out of our football team.
To Trump's credit, he did a really good job motivating previous non-voters and he caused many culturally conservative, rural Democrats to switch parties.
On the other hand he drove a lot of professional, suburban Republicans out of the party, and motivated the Democrat's base even more.
As for undecideds, in 2016 Libertarians pulled 4.5 million votes and the Green party got 1.5 million. In 2020 Libertarians has 1.9 million and the Greens had 0.4 million. That's 3.7 million who didn't vote 3rd party and those heavily broke for Biden. Biden also won among those who didn't like both candidates, whereas Trump won that category in 2016.
Overall.... It's complicated.
SexualChocolate said:
Imho, this movement is dead. I could be wrong but I don't think the Republican Party can survive this. With the changing of demographics and future voters, I think you will see the change. Again, this is just my opinion and not intending to say if it's good or bad.
You think the Republican Party is dead? Jesus, man, you might want to consider some new news sources.
cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
Y'all with the "point to the sentence where Trump incited a riot" need not be myopic about this.
One word or sentence in a speech doesn't incite a riot. Take a step back and look at the totality and chronology and buildup of emotion.
Six months of STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUD...FAKE...CORRUPT...LANDSLIDE...STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUDULENT...STOLEN...FAKE...FRAUD...LANDSLIDE...CORRUPT...STOLEN...STOLEN...
Then leading up to the riot, encouraging his followers to come to Washington for a 'Save America' march.
"Be there, will be wild!!!"
Then he holds a rally, repeating all the same STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUD...FAKE accusations without any evidence.
Then, "Fight much harder"
"Show strength"
"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules."
"if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election"
This all built to a crescendo where his followers were thinking this was Trump's metaphorical (and some of his 'Patriots' thought, literal) last stand. If the team was just strong and fought hard, and Mike Pence and Congress got the message, they could still win the election! Of course, none of this was true.
When you're frothy, angry, and told to 'show strength', 'fight much harder,' and do all that playing by 'very different rules,' it's no leap to discuss incitement.
The crowd thought they could be effectual if they were just strong and fought hard. What do those phrases even mean in the context of a political march?
It's clear what the mob thought they meant.
The Republican party will absolutely survive this.SexualChocolate said:
Imho, this movement is dead. I could be wrong but I don't think the Republican Party can survive this. With the changing of demographics and future voters, I think you will see the change. Again, this is just my opinion and not intending to say if it's good or bad.
They're just becoming more fragmented and more of a coalition, like the Democratic party has been for decades.
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
SexualChocolate said:
Imho, this movement is dead. I could be wrong but I don't think the Republican Party can survive this. With the changing of demographics and future voters, I think you will see the change. Again, this is just my opinion and not intending to say if it's good or bad.
I don't know what 2020 will show but this graph is from the 2016 electorate. Trump's message is more in line where all that red and yellow are than the traditional republican.
So you are correct that the GOP will severely limit itself and become small and irrelevant if it goes back to it's old ways. But that won't happen. Trump has reshaped it and going forward the voters are going to demand the platform that's been emphasized by the Trump administration. The Romney/ Kasich/ Bush type GOP is dead.
ETA: damn the graph doesn't show. Oh well.
Civilized said:cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
Y'all with the "point to the sentence where Trump incited a riot" need not be myopic about this.
One word or sentence in a speech doesn't incite a riot. Take a step back and look at the totality and chronology and buildup of emotion.
Six months of STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUD...FAKE...CORRUPT...LANDSLIDE...STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUDULENT...STOLEN...FAKE...FRAUD...LANDSLIDE...CORRUPT...STOLEN...STOLEN...
Then leading up to the riot, encouraging his followers to come to Washington for a 'Save America' march.
"Be there, will be wild!!!"
Then he holds a rally, repeating all the same STOLEN...RIGGED...FRAUD...FAKE accusations without any evidence.
Then, "Fight much harder"
"Show strength"
"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules."
"if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election"
This all built to a crescendo where his followers were thinking this was Trump's metaphorical (and some of his 'Patriots' thought, literal) last stand. If the team was just strong and fought hard, and Mike Pence and Congress got the message, they could still win the election! Of course, none of this was true.
When you're frothy, angry, and told to 'show strength', 'fight much harder,' and do all that playing by 'very different rules,' it's no leap to discuss incitement.
The crowd thought they could be effectual if they were just strong and fought hard. What do those phrases even mean in the context of a political march?
It's clear what the mob thought they meant.
I have heard the same things for the last 4 years from democrats and we have seen assaults on republican elected officials. Are you saying that all of those assaults are at the feet of democrat politicians? You can look at some of my previous comments above where I quoted Nancy Pelosi saying that the election was stolen and rigged. Is that Nancy Pelosi's fault?
Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
You've been given plenty of examples already. Glad to hear you agree. It would be awfully hypocritical to blame Trump for something you haven't been blaming Democrats for all year. They have behaved horribly irresponsibly for the last 4 years. Quite frankly, longer, but they took it to another level with their TDS madness.
Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Pacfanweb said:Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Hillary is still whining about her L. Lolol. Seriously???
packgrad said:Pacfanweb said:Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Hillary is still whining about her L. Lolol. Seriously???
So has she still not conceded?
You are being rather dishonest about this if you were saying the two situations are remotely similar. Whining about losing, and refusing to concede and claiming publicly you were defrauded are entirely different things.
Pacfanweb said:packgrad said:Pacfanweb said:Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Hillary is still whining about her L. Lolol. Seriously???
So has she still not conceded?
Democrats voted against certifying the election then too.
Here you goCivilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
That being said, neither side is blameless. Both are at fault for the current situation.
Joined:
Nov 25, 2017
Posts:
12,550
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
No, I wasn't joking. I have purposely tuned most anything political-related out. I saw the aftermath but never saw or read the contents of Trump's speech that led up to what happened at the capitol.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
Here is the CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem this morning on CNN talking about Trump: "He is the leader of a terrorist organization". She also demanded her total isolation through removal from office, deplatforming, & no access to campaign funds. She also called for mass arrest and scrubbing of rally goers.
Worse than anything that Trump said by far.....but I guess that its ok because she's a democrat. RIght?
Worse than anything that Trump said by far.....but I guess that its ok because she's a democrat. RIght?
Republicans were always fragmented as well. Look at how ineffectual 2016 to 2018 was when they controlled both houses and the Presidency. Boehner was driven out by the Freedom caucus being such a thorn in his side. Divisions certainly do run much deeper now.Civilized said:The Republican party will absolutely survive this.SexualChocolate said:
Imho, this movement is dead. I could be wrong but I don't think the Republican Party can survive this. With the changing of demographics and future voters, I think you will see the change. Again, this is just my opinion and not intending to say if it's good or bad.
They're just becoming more fragmented and more of a coalition, like the Democratic party has been for decades.
IMO we are at the beginning of a period of political realignment. How exactly that shakes out.... I have no idea. Some Republicans will refuse to stay in the party if Trumpism is the prevailing ideology. But if the "establishment" wins back control, I see a lot of Trump's base leaving, possibly to a new party. Either way, I think the Republican coalition as it currently stands is going to split.
Democrats may stay more united because they are in the majority, but the Bernie wing is still really pissed at the Democratic establishment and could potentially split anytime if they continue to be stymied. Conservatives here really underestimate the amount of differences and infighting on the left.
Right now we have Democratic Socialists, Social Democrats, Neoliberals, Neoconservatives, Populist Conservatives, Evangelicals, Libertarians, and many moderates who are a mix of each. I'd LOVE the ability for us to go to a multi-party system so that people can vote for the party that represents them, instead of compromising their values.
IMO, step #1 is ranked choice voting. It can be pushed on the state level and gives 3rd parties a fighting chance. However, I'm becoming more and more a fan of moving one of the two houses of congress to a proportional system. Here is a simple example with only 3 Parties, using NC which has 13 house seats.
Say Republicans win 45%, Democrats win 43%, and Libertarians win 12%. In a proportional house, parties would run state wide and the result would be 6 Republicans, 5 Democrats, and 2 Libertarians going to the House of Representatives to represent NC. The Senate could stay a state wide, single winner with Ranked Choice Voting.
FlossyDFlynt said:Here you goCivilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
That being said, neither side is blameless. Both are at fault for the current situation.
So the rioters from last summer took their cues from Nancy Pelosi as they huddled around TV's breathlessly watching C-Span? LOLOL
Trump is so much more powerful and communicative than any other politician or personality. Nobody else comes anywhere close to having his influence or reach. He is our singular leader and the leader of the free world, with a huge megaphone and a strong desire to spout off every chance he gets.
Trump used a massive platform (Twitter) to spout all these lies daily for months. His reach was infinitely greater than any other politician making a single comment. Then he compounded that influence by addressing his followers personally in the runup to the riot.
There is no proxy for Trump, our nation's leader, lying multiple times a day for months about FRAUD/STOLEN/CORRUPT - hundreds of times over several months - then rallying his Patriots on the ground in DC, and then his followers running from the rally to riot at the Capitol.
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
FlossyDFlynt said:
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
They don't count because orange man bad. Democrats can foment violence for 4 years, but they don't count. This is true Maoism.
Some did. And guess who repeatedly quashed debate on the objections?packgrad said:Pacfanweb said:packgrad said:Pacfanweb said:Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Hillary is still whining about her L. Lolol. Seriously???
So has she still not conceded?
Democrats voted against certifying the election then too.
Also, interestingly, Hillary lost more electoral votes to faithless electors than Trump did. I didn't realize that until I looked it up just now. I wouldn't have guessed that.
The "Save America Rally" permit did not include going to the Capitol!cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
The keynote speaker, Donald J. Trump said, "You're not going to have a Republican party if you don't get tougher. When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn't listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he's listening to."
"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder. And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our constitution."
"We must stop the steal, and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again, but we are going forward; we will take care of it going forward. We have got to take care of going back."
"Together we will drain the Washington swamp, and we will clean up the corruption in our nation's Capitol. We have done a big job on it, but you think it's easy; it's a dirty business. It's a dirty business. We have a lot of bad people out there. Despite everything we have been through looking out all over this country and seeing fantastic crowds, although this I think is our all-time record."
"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down--
We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol--
And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today, we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections. But whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time. Far longer than this four year period."
"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."
Last Tuesday -
The protesters have a permit from the National Park Service to gather at the Lincoln Memorial and a plaza near the White House.
D.C.'s most prominent resident, President Trump, tweeted that he will be at tomorrow's rally. Trump's support of the protesters and unfounded claims of voter fraud have D.C. leaders concerned that this week's crowds will be large. Bowser has called in the National Guard to assist with crowd control this week.
packgrad said:FlossyDFlynt said:
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
They don't count because orange man bad. Democrats can foment violence for 4 years, but they don't count. This is true Maoism.
LOL they don't count because
a politician the general public doesn't pay attention to saying something once on C-Span or wherever
=/=
the sitting president lying hundreds of times over a six month period on Twitter and then getting his supporters all frothy and fired up in personal remarks in the city where the rally-turned-riot was, right before there's a rally-turned-riot
IseWolf22 said:They didn't stay home, 2020 was a historic turnout with more voters than ever before. Many non-voters showed up this year either because they loved or hated Trump.IseWolf22 said:tuffy1006 said:honestly I havn't looked at the numbers. I guess swing voters like myself stayed out of it last go around. I kinda just figured the swing voters mostly went Trump last time....I guess the reality most swing voters simply stayed home in 2016. My mistake for assuming wrongpineknollshoresking said:That's got to be the dumbest post to date...tuffy1006 said:After the crap that went down this past week I'm completely ok with any incoming party to pick and choose who protects their inauguration. If you dont like it then tough s***. Stop crying "rayufs" just because your damn side lost. Many people that voted Trump first time around did not vote for him again this time....how is that hard to believe? Denial aint a river in egypt. His dumb ass handled this pandemic like an idiot....this was the result. Your anger should be with Trump....but of course it never will bepineknollshoresking said:
I love it....
The Democrats are doing background check of all National Guard folks that are to be at the inauguration for protection. If you are found to have supported Trump, you will not be allowed to protect the inauguration as you will be classified as a threat to society.
Trump got ~ 12M more votes than in 2016
Either way, he lost the election fair and square. I didnt realize it was the landslide it was either this time.....so why are yall complaining about a landslide election? That didnt have to be rigged. Thats like complaining about the refs after Clemson pummels the crap out of our football team.
To Trump's credit, he did a really good job motivating previous non-voters and he caused many culturally conservative, rural Democrats to switch parties.
On the other hand he drove a lot of professional, suburban Republicans out of the party, and motivated the Democrat's base even more.
As for undecideds, in 2016 Libertarians pulled 4.5 million votes and the Green party got 1.5 million. In 2020 Libertarians has 1.9 million and the Greens had 0.4 million. That's 3.7 million who didn't vote 3rd party and those heavily broke for Biden. Biden also won among those who didn't like both candidates, whereas Trump won that category in 2016.
Overall.... It's complicated.
Libertarian is the antithesis of the Biden/Harris ticket. No way they voted for them in mass! I don't believe that for one second. I could be the closet thing to a libertarian here and will tell you that just ain't happening!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
ciscopack said:The "Save America Rally" permit did not include going to the Capitol!cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
The keynote speaker, Donald J. Trump said, "You're not going to have a Republican party if you don't get tougher. When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn't listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he's listening to."
"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder. And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our constitution."
"We must stop the steal, and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again, but we are going forward; we will take care of it going forward. We have got to take care of going back."
"Together we will drain the Washington swamp, and we will clean up the corruption in our nation's Capitol. We have done a big job on it, but you think it's easy; it's a dirty business. It's a dirty business. We have a lot of bad people out there. Despite everything we have been through looking out all over this country and seeing fantastic crowds, although this I think is our all-time record."
"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down--
We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol--
And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today, we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections. But whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time. Far longer than this four year period."
"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."
Last Tuesday -
The protesters have a permit from the National Park Service to gather at the Lincoln Memorial and a plaza near the White House.
D.C.'s most prominent resident, President Trump, tweeted that he will be at tomorrow's rally. Trump's support of the protesters and unfounded claims of voter fraud have D.C. leaders concerned that this week's crowds will be large. Bowser has called in the National Guard to assist with crowd control this week.
Now we need a permit to walk to the Capitol. What's this world come to? BTW, those people's tax dollars pay to keep that building open. The people complaining about this probable don't pay any Federal taxes after all there deductions.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Civilized said:packgrad said:FlossyDFlynt said:
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
They don't count because orange man bad. Democrats can foment violence for 4 years, but they don't count. This is true Maoism.
LOL they don't count because
a politician the general public doesn't pay attention to saying something once on C-Span or wherever
=/=
the sitting president lying hundreds of times over a six month period on Twitter and then getting his supporters all frothy and fired up in personal remarks in the city where the rally-turned-riot was, right before there's a rally-turned-riot
You know... I have no problem with you saying that you don't believe what Trump said about the election, and for that matter, what a bunch of people believe. To call him a lier and in that manner calling everyone else one is over the top.. it's insulting and should be flagged as such.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Civilized said:packgrad said:FlossyDFlynt said:
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
They don't count because orange man bad. Democrats can foment violence for 4 years, but they don't count. This is true Maoism.
LOL they don't count because
a politician the general public doesn't pay attention to saying something once on C-Span or wherever
=/=
the sitting president lying hundreds of times over a six month period on Twitter and then getting his supporters all frothy and fired up in personal remarks in the city where the rally-turned-riot was, right before there's a rally-turned-riot
4 years don't count because the #notaDemocrat says it only happened on CSPAN. LOL. ok. We're not going to agree. Moving on.
Your serious....you can't be serious....Pacfanweb said:Are they?cowboypack02 said:Democrats are still lying about Trump stealing the election in 2016....Civilized said:packgrad said:
So you agree Democrat leaders caused all of the riots this summer?
Yep, sure do agree, if you can show me a 'Democratic leader' that lied on Twitter nonstop for six months and culminated that stream of lies with a rally repeating those same lies and encouraging the attendees to be strong, fight, and play by different rules to achieve a just outcome?
Show me a Democratic leader that behaved as irresponsibly as Trump did for months, and I'll agree they incited riots. Absolutely.
Was Hillary out there, ever, screaming "Fraud/rigged", even before the election? Did she sue multiple states and whine on Twitter for the next 2 months, while having her minions preach "fraud/rigged" to everyone?
Or did a few random Dems complain, and then shut up and let the process go ahead?
You aren't seriously saying the two situations are alike, are you?
Democrats have been talking about "the resistance" since election day in 2016
Here are a few other quotes about the 2016 election:
- "I will not accede to this. I will resist," - Neera Tanden (President-elect Joe Biden's choice to head the Office of Management and Budget) in 2016
- "He is an illegitemate president and he knows that he stole the election" - Hillary Clinton in 2019
- "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty" - Nancy Pelosi in 2017
Took me all of 3 minutes to look these up and type them. Want me to keep picking? I kinda feel like i made my point here.....
SO what part of that tells people to storm the capital?pineknollshoresking said:ciscopack said:The "Save America Rally" permit did not include going to the Capitol!cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
The keynote speaker, Donald J. Trump said, "You're not going to have a Republican party if you don't get tougher. When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn't listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he's listening to."
"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder. And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our constitution."
"We must stop the steal, and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again, but we are going forward; we will take care of it going forward. We have got to take care of going back."
"Together we will drain the Washington swamp, and we will clean up the corruption in our nation's Capitol. We have done a big job on it, but you think it's easy; it's a dirty business. It's a dirty business. We have a lot of bad people out there. Despite everything we have been through looking out all over this country and seeing fantastic crowds, although this I think is our all-time record."
"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down--
We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol--
And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today, we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections. But whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time. Far longer than this four year period."
"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."
Last Tuesday -
The protesters have a permit from the National Park Service to gather at the Lincoln Memorial and a plaza near the White House.
D.C.'s most prominent resident, President Trump, tweeted that he will be at tomorrow's rally. Trump's support of the protesters and unfounded claims of voter fraud have D.C. leaders concerned that this week's crowds will be large. Bowser has called in the National Guard to assist with crowd control this week.
Now we need a permit to walk to the Capitol. What's this world come to? BTW, those people's tax dollars pay to keep that building open. The people complaining about this probable don't pay any Federal taxes after all there deductions.
PKS King what else can you call Trump at this point. The man has spent the last 5 years proving to America he is a liar. I don't see how anybody can draw another conclusion. His lies created an assault on the Capital of the united States. Don't take my word. Listen to what Mike Pence, Lindsey Graham, Mitt Romney and so many other said. Listen to "Stop the Steal" Rally speeches along with Donald Jr. , Rudy and others. He continued to claim the election was stolen. Knowing that he had no evidence that it was.pineknollshoresking said:Civilized said:packgrad said:FlossyDFlynt said:
All you asked for was examples of Democratic leaders behaving as irresponsibly as Trump, and they are out there. I dont support Trump and have never voted for him. But to lay sole blame at his feet for the current situation is just nonsense. There is blame to go around all over DC.
The gaslighting from the media on this issue is only making the divide larger
They don't count because orange man bad. Democrats can foment violence for 4 years, but they don't count. This is true Maoism.
LOL they don't count because
a politician the general public doesn't pay attention to saying something once on C-Span or wherever
=/=
the sitting president lying hundreds of times over a six month period on Twitter and then getting his supporters all frothy and fired up in personal remarks in the city where the rally-turned-riot was, right before there's a rally-turned-riot
You know... I have no problem with you saying that you don't believe what Trump said about the election, and for that matter, what a bunch of people believe. To call him a lier and in that manner calling everyone else one is over the top.. it's insulting and should be flagged as such.
He lied to America about the Corona virus. Now close to 400,000 Americans are dead. You can dispute the number of dead. Somebody always does. But this virus is no hoax. President Trump said it was. Not just once dozens of times. Said we are rounding the corner on the virus as late as Late October. Said he would have Mexico pay for his wall.
Not 1 damn word! It incites (encourages or stirs up) doing so however. When you tell (200,000 - 250,000 stirred up people (# according to DJT) to walk to the Capitol. DJT also said in his last paragraph that WE will do this and of course, he was not there to climb the walls, etc. We was used in the last speech paragraph 6 times......we will go to the Capitol.cowboypack02 said:SO what part of that tells people to storm the capital?pineknollshoresking said:ciscopack said:The "Save America Rally" permit did not include going to the Capitol!cowboypack02 said:I actually think Steve raises a great point.WP said:Steve, you are kidding right? You have been my most respected person on all Pack things for a long time and always the voice of reason. If you've been sucked into the insane conspiracy/insurrectionist/traitor land, my faith in humanity is going to be permanently damaged. Please say it isn't so.Steve Williams said:
Was this the riot inducing speech? I literally have never heard it.
I know that I have posted several times since last week about what other democrats have said that I viewed as worse than anything Trump has said or done. I also know that there are a lot of people here that believe that Trump told people to go out and storm the capital and riot. I and several other posters stand on the complete opposite side and believe that Trump didn't do anything outside of the ordinary.
Can anyone provide the passage from his speech that told everyone to go out and riot? I don't mean what the media or other politicians have said that Trump said, but Trump's actual words? I find it odd that as often at the media like to play video of Trump looking less than presidential I haven't seen a video of what he said yet.
I've taken the last few days to read through the speech and I have not found where Trump is telling people to riot. I read the part of the speech where he told people that they were all going to walk down to the capital, but that it was going to be "patriotic and peaceful". I don't think that goes outside the bound of normal and we've had tons marches on the capital
The keynote speaker, Donald J. Trump said, "You're not going to have a Republican party if you don't get tougher. When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn't listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he's listening to."
"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder. And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our constitution."
"We must stop the steal, and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again, but we are going forward; we will take care of it going forward. We have got to take care of going back."
"Together we will drain the Washington swamp, and we will clean up the corruption in our nation's Capitol. We have done a big job on it, but you think it's easy; it's a dirty business. It's a dirty business. We have a lot of bad people out there. Despite everything we have been through looking out all over this country and seeing fantastic crowds, although this I think is our all-time record."
"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down--
We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol--
And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today, we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections. But whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time. Far longer than this four year period."
"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."
Last Tuesday -
The protesters have a permit from the National Park Service to gather at the Lincoln Memorial and a plaza near the White House.
D.C.'s most prominent resident, President Trump, tweeted that he will be at tomorrow's rally. Trump's support of the protesters and unfounded claims of voter fraud have D.C. leaders concerned that this week's crowds will be large. Bowser has called in the National Guard to assist with crowd control this week.
Now we need a permit to walk to the Capitol. What's this world come to? BTW, those people's tax dollars pay to keep that building open. The people complaining about this probable don't pay any Federal taxes after all there deductions.
The data says I'm right. Libertarians aligned more with the "establishment" Republicans you don't like than they do with Trump, although it's still a distantly different philosophy than Republicans/Conservatism.pineknollshoresking said:IseWolf22 said:They didn't stay home, 2020 was a historic turnout with more voters than ever before. Many non-voters showed up this year either because they loved or hated Trump.IseWolf22 said:tuffy1006 said:honestly I havn't looked at the numbers. I guess swing voters like myself stayed out of it last go around. I kinda just figured the swing voters mostly went Trump last time....I guess the reality most swing voters simply stayed home in 2016. My mistake for assuming wrongpineknollshoresking said:That's got to be the dumbest post to date...tuffy1006 said:After the crap that went down this past week I'm completely ok with any incoming party to pick and choose who protects their inauguration. If you dont like it then tough s***. Stop crying "rayufs" just because your damn side lost. Many people that voted Trump first time around did not vote for him again this time....how is that hard to believe? Denial aint a river in egypt. His dumb ass handled this pandemic like an idiot....this was the result. Your anger should be with Trump....but of course it never will bepineknollshoresking said:
I love it....
The Democrats are doing background check of all National Guard folks that are to be at the inauguration for protection. If you are found to have supported Trump, you will not be allowed to protect the inauguration as you will be classified as a threat to society.
Trump got ~ 12M more votes than in 2016
Either way, he lost the election fair and square. I didnt realize it was the landslide it was either this time.....so why are yall complaining about a landslide election? That didnt have to be rigged. Thats like complaining about the refs after Clemson pummels the crap out of our football team.
To Trump's credit, he did a really good job motivating previous non-voters and he caused many culturally conservative, rural Democrats to switch parties.
On the other hand he drove a lot of professional, suburban Republicans out of the party, and motivated the Democrat's base even more.
As for undecideds, in 2016 Libertarians pulled 4.5 million votes and the Green party got 1.5 million. In 2020 Libertarians has 1.9 million and the Greens had 0.4 million. That's 3.7 million who didn't vote 3rd party and those heavily broke for Biden. Biden also won among those who didn't like both candidates, whereas Trump won that category in 2016.
Overall.... It's complicated.
Libertarian is the antithesis of the Biden/Harris ticket. No way they voted for them in mass! I don't believe that for one second. I could be the closet thing to a libertarian here and will tell you that just ain't happening!!!
"Pre-election polls predicted this2016 third-party voters, and specifically Libertarians (who made up 57 percent of the third-party electorate that year), repeatedly said that a majority of them were going straight, and preferred Biden to Trump by more than two to one."
https://reason.com/2020/11/11/trump-lost-in-part-because-2016-third-party-voters-heavily-preferred-biden/
Reason.com is one of the biggest and most respected sources of Libertarian media. The title of their last podcast is "The GOP's Authoritarian Sickness"
I'd be surprised if you've voted Libertarian more than I have, but maybe I'm wrong. You should go read up on the official party platform and see if you really align. Libertarianism is far more than low taxes and support for the second amendment. It's free trade, and liberal (small L) immigration policies. It's radically pro-civil liberties and pushes for increased accountability of anyone in government, including Police officers. It's generally incompatible with populism.
What else can you call Trump at this point? I'll call him...Wolfpackrich1 said:
PKS King what else can you call Trump at this point. The man has spent the last 5 years proving to America he is a liar. I don't see how anybody can draw another conclusion. His lies created an assault on the Capital of the united States. Don't take my word. Listen to what Mike Pence, Lindsey Graham, Mitt Romney and so many other said. Listen to "Stop the Steal" Rally speeches along with Donald Jr. , Rudy and others. He continued to claim the election was stolen. Knowing that he had no evidence that it was.
He lied to America about the Corona virus. Now close to 400,000 Americans are dead. You can dispute the number of dead. Somebody always does. But this virus is no hoax. President Trump said it was. Not just once dozens of times. Said we are rounding the corner on the virus as late as Late October. Said he would have Mexico pay for his wall.
- A person that loves America
- A person that wants this country to be about America first
- A person that spoke to people who have thought things weren't right far longer than even the Tea Party
- A person that 74M people voted for
I think that your assertion that he's a liar comes off as an elitist. Now, I have no problem with you thinking that he's a liar; however, just change the wording a little and all's good...
As far as the deaths for the Corona Virus, no one truly knows the true numbers. In fact, people in another thread are saying NC has troubles calculating all deaths, so, I would say that could be the same with Corona.
Also, I agree... the virus is no hoax; however, I will ask for us all to consider the following:
- 2020 had 1.8M deaths to Corona Virus - World Wide
- 2020 had 40M abortions - World Wide
If we truly care about life, why does this not concern us?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Featured Stories
See All
5 TO WATCH: Class of 2025
by Steve Williams
Projected 2024-2025 Hoops Roster and Scholarship Listing
by James Henderson
IPS IN 5: Dontrez Styles Is An Ideal Fit For NC State's System
by James Henderson
TRANSFER PORTAL SPOTLIGHT: Mike James
by Jake McSwain
12:25
23h ago
830
DUGOUT REPORT: Pack Takes Series Opener Versus Carolina
by Daniel Wilson