Cannon Hinnant Murder- Wilson, NC

12,496 Views | 84 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Bell Tower Grey
1MANWOLFPAK
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Amen brother
Pacfanweb said:

statefan91 said:

Whole lotta projection going on in here. Seems weird that we can't just be sad for the family and hope justice is served quickly.
See, this is what happens. A black person has something perceived as unjust or outrageous happen to them (and sometimes these news items are even legit) and the country goes crazy.

From these incidents, many of which turn out to be bogus/faked/not properly represented, we've gotten the terms "BLM", "White privilege", "Woke", "Hands Up, Don't Shoot", etc.

All of which are total BS, honestly.

Yet when a black person does something that should spark outrage....white people aren't allowed to be outraged. Instead, we're told to "be quiet and be sad for the family". Etc.

And the fact of the matter is, the numbers are considerably slanted towards the latter incidents being more common, yet we're supposed to sit back and let them go.
GuerrillaPack
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Pacfanweb said:

statefan91 said:

Whole lotta projection going on in here. Seems weird that we can't just be sad for the family and hope justice is served quickly.
See, this is what happens. A black person has something perceived as unjust or outrageous happen to them (and sometimes these news items are even legit) and the country goes crazy.

From these incidents, many of which turn out to be bogus/faked/not properly represented, we've gotten the terms "BLM", "White privilege", "Woke", "Hands Up, Don't Shoot", etc.

All of which are total BS, honestly.

Yet when a black person does something that should spark outrage....white people aren't allowed to be outraged. Instead, we're told to "be quiet and be sad for the family". Etc.

And the fact of the matter is, the numbers are considerably slanted towards the latter incidents being more common, yet we're supposed to sit back and let them go.
EXACTLY

If anyone is justified to be up in arms over inter-racial crime, it is WHITE people. They are, by far, the disproportionate victims of inter-racial crime -- mostly by black perpetrators. White people are the victims of inter-racial violent crime (rape, robbery, murder) at the hands of black perpetrators at a rate of 10+ times the reverse case.

Look up the FBI statistics on this -- at least for the years where those stats are still available, until about 10 years ago when the FBI stopped providing them.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
waynecountywolf
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https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/mom-of-5-year-old-allegedly-killed-by-neighbor-suspect-will-rot-in-hell/
"In another post, she wrote about Cannon's heartbroken sisters, ages 7 and 8, who were playing with him the day he was killed.

The devastated mom promised to go scorched earth in her pursuit of justice for Cannon.

"I will burn this country down if it's what it'll take to see [the alleged shooter] burn in hell," she wrote. "I'm ready to flip this country upside down.

"We will get our justice and I'm taking every damn body down right with him!"

A woman claiming to be a cousin of Cannon's father created a GoFundMe page for the family and wrote in the bio that the boy was shot "because he rode into his neighbors yard."

statefan91
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Prayers for the family, I'd be doing the same scorched earth approach.
Bell Tower Grey
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This was back in apparently better days for the Sessoms boys....seems Josh ran afoul of the law himself after he left State. Sad all the way around. Hopefully justice will be swift and quick for Cannon.


Southern Nash's Josh Sessoms signs a letter-of-intent to join the football program at North Carolina State. Also pictured are (back, l to r) Paige Emig (girlfriend), Garland Sessoms (father) and Darius Sessoms (brother); (front) Carolyn Sessoms (mother) (Graphic photo by Geoff Neville)

https://usatodayhss.com/2017/joshua-sessoms-nc-state-football-sex-student
waynecountywolf
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Bell Tower Grey said:

This was back in apparently better days for the Sessoms boys....seems Josh ran afoul of the law himself after he left State. Sad all the way around. Hopefully justice will be swift and quick for Cannon.


Southern Nash's Josh Sessoms signs a letter-of-intent to join the football program at North Carolina State. Also pictured are (back, l to r) Paige Emig (girlfriend), Garland Sessoms (father) and Darius Sessoms (brother); (front) Carolyn Sessoms (mother) (Graphic photo by Geoff Neville)

https://usatodayhss.com/2017/joshua-sessoms-nc-state-football-sex-student
Damn.
metcalfmafia
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I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Bell Tower Grey
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metcalfmafia said:

I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Yep. Looks like they have a lot of brotherly bonds going on. So sad; makes me sick to my stomach.
Bas2020
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Bell Tower Grey said:

metcalfmafia said:

I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Yep. Looks like they have a lot of brotherly bonds going on. So sad; makes me sick to my stomach.


Dang . First seeing this . Younger Sessoms had glowing reports from high school and his time at State I thought . He was a good student and leader in some school clubs I think .He went on to coach or teach in a local hs and got caught up with a student ... or atleast I think that's the story . Thoughts and prayers obviously with Hinnant family but also with Sessoms parents - I cant imagine the guilt they must feel. . Gutted all around .
griff17matt
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Bas2020 said:

Bell Tower Grey said:

metcalfmafia said:

I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Yep. Looks like they have a lot of brotherly bonds going on. So sad; makes me sick to my stomach.


Dang . First seeing this . Younger Sessoms had glowing reports from high school and his time at State I thought . He was a good student and leader in some school clubs I think .He went on to coach or teach in a local hs and got caught up with a student ... or atleast I think that's the story . Thoughts and prayers obviously with Hinnant family but also with Sessoms parents - I cant imagine the guilt they must feel. . Gutted all around .


https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article181845576.html

You would be correct. Crazy. Gotta feel for their parents. Raising a kid ****er AND a kid killer has to have you questioning your parenting skills, right?
Bell Tower Grey
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griff17matt said:

Bas2020 said:

Bell Tower Grey said:

metcalfmafia said:

I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Yep. Looks like they have a lot of brotherly bonds going on. So sad; makes me sick to my stomach.


Dang . First seeing this . Younger Sessoms had glowing reports from high school and his time at State I thought . He was a good student and leader in some school clubs I think .He went on to coach or teach in a local hs and got caught up with a student ... or atleast I think that's the story . Thoughts and prayers obviously with Hinnant family but also with Sessoms parents - I cant imagine the guilt they must feel. . Gutted all around .


https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article181845576.html

You would be correct. Crazy. Gotta feel for their parents. Raising a kid ****er AND a kid killer has to have you questioning your parenting skills, right?
The defense attorney take is always bad parenting or lack of parenting altogether. While parenting certainly is a factor, most of the blame should fall squarely on the shoulders of the perp themselves. There comes a time when a person has to take responsibility for their own actions, parents, neighborhood, friendships, (insert your own factor here) be damned. Own it - you screwed up. They certainly want to own it when the glorious accolades are showered their way.

And, I do hate it for the Sessoms' parents. They probably are good folks that did the best they could. Don't know, because to my knowledge I've never met them. The fact that their two sons have turned out to be pure evil doesn't fall squarely on their shoulders. More than anything at all, it is on those boys.
Civilized
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Pacfanweb said:

statefan91 said:

Whole lotta projection going on in here. Seems weird that we can't just be sad for the family and hope justice is served quickly.
See, this is what happens. A black person has something perceived as unjust or outrageous happen to them (and sometimes these news items are even legit) and the country goes crazy.

From these incidents, many of which turn out to be bogus/faked/not properly represented, we've gotten the terms "BLM", "White privilege", "Woke", "Hands Up, Don't Shoot", etc.

All of which are total BS, honestly.

Yet when a black person does something that should spark outrage....white people aren't allowed to be outraged. Instead, we're told to "be quiet and be sad for the family". Etc.

And the fact of the matter is, the numbers are considerably slanted towards the latter incidents being more common, yet we're supposed to sit back and let them go.

"Soon after it was reported, Cannon's story was seized upon by some conservative outlets an example of what they view as selective outrage among the left and the mainstream media. Amid a national reckoning over racial injustice, they pushed the claim that the story was being ignored because of race: Cannon was White, while Sessoms is Black.

Police have given no indication that race was a factor in the crime, which received coverage in national outlets including USA Today, Fox News and CNN within five days of occurring. Cannon's father and grandmother have said they do not believe the killing was racially motivated.


Austin Hinnant told the Wilson Times that while his family appreciated the support they have received, he has been disturbed by online comments suggesting race played a role.

"This is no racial issue," Hinnant said, adding that he was praying for the people behind those posts."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/14/cannon-hinnant-killing/

Y'all need to find a much more convincing hill to die on.

RIP to a sweet boy who was tragically murdered. Every parent's worst nightmare, I can't even imagine what his family is going through.
packgrad
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Meh. Race wasn't an issue for George Floyd either. Doesn't stop your ilk from poisoning the well with rhetoric. Good for the goose....
Pacfanweb
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Exactly. Race had nothing to do with Floyd. Had nothing to do with Michael Brown.

But the reactions of black people, the "woke" and the media were TOTALLY different than to this.

This is not a huge national story. It's been reported some...sure. But there isn't a huge outrage to yet another killing of a white person, this time a young child, by a black person for NO REASON.
At least in these controversial cases (which really mostly aren't all that controversial when the evidence comes out) involving police and blacks, there's an actual reason for the interaction to begin with, before it turned deadly.

And make no mistake: This is FAR more common than police killing blacks.

Quick example: 2013 popped up at the top of my search for whatever reason, but it's basically the same numbers each year:

Total murders: 5723

Committed by whites: 2755

Committed by blacks: 2698

Total whites murdered: 2409 409 of those by blacks.

Total blacks murdered: 2491 189 of those by whites.

Again, blacks are only 12-ish% of the population. And they commit basically half the murders.





griff17matt
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Bell Tower Grey said:

griff17matt said:

Bas2020 said:

Bell Tower Grey said:

metcalfmafia said:

I remember him from that class. Man I didn't realize they were related.
Yep. Looks like they have a lot of brotherly bonds going on. So sad; makes me sick to my stomach.


Dang . First seeing this . Younger Sessoms had glowing reports from high school and his time at State I thought . He was a good student and leader in some school clubs I think .He went on to coach or teach in a local hs and got caught up with a student ... or atleast I think that's the story . Thoughts and prayers obviously with Hinnant family but also with Sessoms parents - I cant imagine the guilt they must feel. . Gutted all around .


https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article181845576.html

You would be correct. Crazy. Gotta feel for their parents. Raising a kid ****er AND a kid killer has to have you questioning your parenting skills, right?
The defense attorney take is always bad parenting or lack of parenting altogether. While parenting certainly is a factor, most of the blame should fall squarely on the shoulders of the perp themselves. There comes a time when a person has to take responsibility for their own actions, parents, neighborhood, friendships, (insert your own factor here) be damned. Own it - you screwed up. They certainly want to own it when the glorious accolades are showered their way.

And, I do hate it for the Sessoms' parents. They probably are good folks that did the best they could. Don't know, because to my knowledge I've never met them. The fact that their two sons have turned out to be pure evil doesn't fall squarely on their shoulders. More than anything at all, it is on those boys.


I don't think I blamed the parents. At least I didn't intend to. Let me clarify...if I were in their position, these two incidents would make me question my parenting skills.

My wife and I were discussing this in an unrelated way a few weeks back while watching a documentary on the Watts murders. His mom was unwavering standing in his defense and we both agreed that IF one of our kids ever did something so heinous as that, we would no longer be their parents. There has to be a point, probably in the teenage years, where it becomes your choice and not your parents teaching that caused the issue in which you find yourself. But as a parent, if two of my kids went that far off the rails...man I'd really blame myself disproportionate to my role in the outcome.
Bas2020
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Civilized said:

Pacfanweb said:

statefan91 said:

Whole lotta projection going on in here. Seems weird that we can't just be sad for the family and hope justice is served quickly.
See, this is what happens. A black person has something perceived as unjust or outrageous happen to them (and sometimes these news items are even legit) and the country goes crazy.

From these incidents, many of which turn out to be bogus/faked/not properly represented, we've gotten the terms "BLM", "White privilege", "Woke", "Hands Up, Don't Shoot", etc.

All of which are total BS, honestly.

Yet when a black person does something that should spark outrage....white people aren't allowed to be outraged. Instead, we're told to "be quiet and be sad for the family". Etc.

And the fact of the matter is, the numbers are considerably slanted towards the latter incidents being more common, yet we're supposed to sit back and let them go.

"Soon after it was reported, Cannon's story was seized upon by some conservative outlets an example of what they view as selective outrage among the left and the mainstream media. Amid a national reckoning over racial injustice, they pushed the claim that the story was being ignored because of race: Cannon was White, while Sessoms is Black.

Police have given no indication that race was a factor in the crime, which received coverage in national outlets including USA Today, Fox News and CNN within five days of occurring. Cannon's father and grandmother have said they do not believe the killing was racially motivated.


Austin Hinnant told the Wilson Times that while his family appreciated the support they have received, he has been disturbed by online comments suggesting race played a role.

"This is no racial issue," Hinnant said, adding that he was praying for the people behind those posts."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/14/cannon-hinnant-killing/

Y'all need to find a much more convincing hill to die on.

RIP to a sweet boy who was tragically murdered. Every parent's worst nightmare, I can't even imagine what his family is going through.


Race also has nothing to do with the police involved deaths also . More whites die at the hand of the police than blacks . There are actually worse cases of police killing white people this year but nobody knows about the cases because it doesn't fit the narrative .

Ryan Whittaker
Tony Timpa
Schaver

Tons of cases of police killing whites ... absolute *crickets* from media and twitter loons
Pacfanweb
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Nobody talks about the police killed by suspects. A HELL of a lot more than any questionable killings of anyone by the police, much less blacks.

2017: 46 officers were killed in incidents involving suspects. (not car accidents, etc)

42 of those with guns.

16 of those were by blacks.


So 35% of police killed were killed by blacks. And again, blacks are 12%-ish of the population.

And of the people killed by police, roughly twice as many whites are killed as are blacks.

I'm thinking all this BS is more of a "squeaky wheel" scenario than an actual problem.

Someone needs to start putting up the real numbers on a regular basis until it sinks in.
statefan91
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Maybe white people should also have a problem with the number of white people killed by police?

I don't see how it's better to say "you guys shouldn't worry about it, police kill way more of us and we're fine with it"
Packchem91
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statefan91 said:

Maybe white people should also have a problem with the number of white people killed by police?

I don't see how it's better to say "you guys shouldn't worry about it, police kill way more of us and we're fine with it"
Probably should --- I don't think we are inundated with the imagery to the point of being sick and recognizing that there is a systemic problem if a white guy gets killed. We typically just assume he was some meth head who did something to have it coming...unless of course it is the son of some wealthy powerful man, then we think differently.

That's the way it seems to go, anyway.

I personally think 2 things can be true --- people who benefit from race make (or don't make) big things out of race....and there are some policemen who allow power to outdistance rational thought.
Pacfanweb
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statefan91 said:

Maybe white people should also have a problem with the number of white people killed by police?

I don't see how it's better to say "you guys shouldn't worry about it, police kill way more of us and we're fine with it"

Not remotely what I said or implied.
What I am saying is, the killings of blacks needs to stop being blown out of proportion in a ridiculous fashion, like it currently is being done and has been for a while now.

Not that some of them, a very few, but some... Shouldn't be looked at. But it is to the point that people are jumping to a conclusion before the body is even cool, and the riots / protests are being formed. And then the majority of the time, when all the evidence comes in after an investigation is conducted, we find out that either the shooting was legit, or it at least was not anywhere near as egregious as first thought.

The incident with George Floyd is a perfect example.

In a knee-jerk reaction to a video that only told part of the story, the cops have been charged with second-degree murder. It is almost a certainty that he is going to get acquitted of that, because that was not an appropriate charge... Based on the evidence.

The perception that cops unjustly shoot blacks in huge numbers really needs to be shot down. That is not the case at all. as is the misconception that race has anything to do with these shootings.

They expect the cops to be absolutely perfect...but even when the cops don't do anything wrong, blacks lie about what happened because that's just what things have come to. You can find incident after incident after incident ad nauseam of blacks lying and getting everyone else riled up.

Just a few that come to mind:

Remember the cops shot a young man in Raleigh not long ago. Javier Torres, google him. Some black girl went on FB live, lying, saying "the police shot a young boy carrying a pizza". You can probably still find the post with all the comments about how terrible it was and how badly they get treated.

Dude was in his 20's, had a gun. Protesters marched to the police chief's home.

Remember Akiel Denkins. Thug, criminal, ran from a cop, then tried to shoot him, then fought with the cop. Tried to take his gun, got shot. His mother said the cop shot him in the back. Denkins' DNA was found on the cop's gun. Cop did everything right.
Mom lied.

Remember Keith Lamont Scott in Charlotte: Had a gun, didn't comply, cops shot him. Wife claimed he was holding a book not a gun. Gun found at scene, was stolen and sold to Scott, had his fingerprints on it. Riots and protests in Charlotte over this and a man was shot and killed during them. Because the wife/family lied.

You can go on and on for a long time with these cases around the country. Ferguson: All because witnesses (black) lied about Michael Brown. "Hands up, don't shoot"....it was a total lie. Once the evidence came out, it was clear, but the riots were already over, the cop already lost his job for no reason.
Look at the riots and other incidents in Ferguson resulting from that: Multiple people were shot in confrontations with the police, and I believe in every one of them, witnesses/friends claimed the person who was shot was unarmed. And every one of them lied.

It's really the rule, not the exception. And it needs to be called out and stopped.

statefan91
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Understood. If race isn't a factor to consider, should we then just be looking more closely at the number of deaths caused by police for the country?

These numbers don't look very good - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
Tootie4Pack
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The number was 1146 deaths by the police in the US. There are annually 250,000 deaths by medical mistakes in the US. The third leading cause of death in our country behind heart disease and cancer. Humans of all types make mistakes , sometimes fatal mistakes.

What's next....rioting and burning down hospitals and attacking doctors and nurses?

Look at the gun laws in every country regarding the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Better yet, look at what countries have a large organized crime presence. We can have the strictest gun laws in the world , but as long as someone can make money on smuggling guns , among other things , into our country, the challenges that law enforcement faces each and every day, will never go away.
Tootie4Pack
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I also meant to mention how tragic and horrible it is that this young boy was shot in the head in front of his two sisters. I can not imagine the pain his parents and family are going thru right now.
Civilized
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Tootie4Pack said:

The number was 1146 deaths by the police in the US. There are annually 250,000 deaths by medical mistakes in the US. The third leading cause of death in our country behind heart disease and cancer. Humans of all types make mistakes , sometimes fatal mistakes.

What's next....rioting and burning down hospitals and attacking doctors and nurses?

Look at the gun laws in every country regarding the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Better yet, look at what countries have a large organized crime presence. We can have the strictest gun laws in the world , but as long as someone can make money on smuggling guns , among other things , into our country, the challenges that law enforcement faces each and every day, will never go away.

The "medical mistake" definition, at least in that Hopkins study, is so broad as to almost be useless.

It relies on major extrapolation and includes effects from "poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols..."

Deaths at the hands of police is directly calculable. The police shoot or choke a suspect to death, it gets counted. It's also apples and elephants because patients often seek medical care when they are in bad or dire health. Suspects get killed by police when they are very much young, alive, and healthy.

The theme with policing of minorities and especially blacks is that you either...

a. believe there's a problem as evidenced by multiple observable outcomes - with traffic stops, searches, arrests, charges, convictions, sentencing, and use-of-force all being higher than whites **who are stopped for or accused of similar crimes**, or you

b. deflect specific complaints by the black community by pointing to "valuing education", black-on-black crime stats, black-on-white crime stats, or random other causes of death stats as being a reason that the black community and media should look past the outcomes of black Americans in our criminal justice machine.

We can't fix problems that we don't admit are problems.

Pacfanweb
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Tootie4Pack said:

The number was 1146 deaths by the police in the US. There are annually 250,000 deaths by medical mistakes in the US. The third leading cause of death in our country behind heart disease and cancer. Humans of all types make mistakes , sometimes fatal mistakes.

What's next....rioting and burning down hospitals and attacking doctors and nurses?

Look at the gun laws in every country regarding the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Better yet, look at what countries have a large organized crime presence. We can have the strictest gun laws in the world , but as long as someone can make money on smuggling guns , among other things , into our country, the challenges that law enforcement faces each and every day, will never go away.
Exactly.

And 1146 simply isn't a significant number. Certainly it's significant to the individuals involved, but in the big picture, it's not.

USA is 300 million-ish, right? There are roughly 765,000 local/state police. If only half of them are in the field, that's 382,500 that are. If they average only 5 encounters each day with the public (which is probably low) that's 1.9 million. x365, that's 698 million encounters per year police have with the public. And only 1146 of those result in them killing someone, and the overwhelming majority of those are totally legit with no question about misconduct.
That's just a totally insignificant number in the big picture.

Not saying we shouldn't always be vigilant and work on ways to reduce a number that's already low, but we shouldn't be too worried about it, either.
Pacfanweb
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Civilized said:

Tootie4Pack said:

The number was 1146 deaths by the police in the US. There are annually 250,000 deaths by medical mistakes in the US. The third leading cause of death in our country behind heart disease and cancer. Humans of all types make mistakes , sometimes fatal mistakes.

What's next....rioting and burning down hospitals and attacking doctors and nurses?

Look at the gun laws in every country regarding the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Better yet, look at what countries have a large organized crime presence. We can have the strictest gun laws in the world , but as long as someone can make money on smuggling guns , among other things , into our country, the challenges that law enforcement faces each and every day, will never go away.

The "medical mistake" definition, at least in that Hopkins study, is so broad as to almost be useless.

It relies on major extrapolation and includes effects from "poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols..."

Deaths at the hands of police is directly calculable. The police shoot or choke a suspect to death, it gets counted. It's also apples and elephants because patients often seek medical care when they are in bad or dire health. Suspects get killed by police when they are very much young, alive, and healthy.

The theme with policing of minorities and especially blacks is that you either...

a. believe there's a problem as evidenced by multiple observable outcomes - with traffic stops, searches, arrests, charges, convictions, sentencing, and use-of-force all being higher than whites **who are stopped for or accused of similar crimes**, or you

b. deflect specific complaints by the black community by pointing to "valuing education", black-on-black crime stats, black-on-white crime stats, or random other causes of death stats as being a reason that the black community and media should look past the outcomes of black Americans in our criminal justice machine.

We can't fix problems that we don't admit are problems.


Fine, then when you start admitting that all those things you just listed about blacks is true and is a huge part of their lot in life, we can get somewhere.

Nobody has ever said the police couldn't be better, but when you're trying to work things out, it helps if the other side is actually doing some of the work as well.

You could have police totally cease pulling blacks over and bothering them at all, and it wouldn't change the fact that blacks that make up 12-13% of the population are committing half the murders. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with the police.
Pacfanweb
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acslater1344 said:

Welcome to message boards of InsidePackRacists.com
Yep, typical response from someone who can't argue the facts, resort to name calling and the tired "racist" insult.

It's not racist to point out facts. Facts don't know what race they're representing.
statefan91
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Based on the link (I know it's Wikipedia and I can't vouch for it necessarily)...

US has a rate of 34.8 for deaths by police per 10 million

Here how it is compared to other developed Western nations:

3.6x higher than Canada
9x higher than France
26.7x higher than Germany


Pacfanweb
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statefan91 said:

Based on the link (I know it's Wikipedia and I can't vouch for it necessarily)...

US has a rate of 34.8 for deaths by police per 10 million

Here how it is compared to other developed Western nations:

3.6x higher than Canada
9x higher than France
26.7x higher than Germany



How does the makeup of our population compare to those countries? More or less diverse?

statefan91
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I thought we weren't worried about race, just looking at macro level police interactions?
Pacfanweb
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statefan91 said:

I thought we weren't worried about race, just looking at macro level police interactions?
Comparing with other countries brings that into the conversation. Race isn't a factor in who the police shoot, no...at least, they aren't more likely to shoot people because of their race.

But if you're going to talk crime here vs other countries, you're going to have to look at the difference between us and them. That would be the case in most any subject, such as healthcare outcomes, etc.

Without looking into it, I'd guess we probably have more crime than those places do, therefore more police/public interactions, therefore more of those end up being deadly. Add guns to the mix, and then you have to talk about population makeup.

But if you're going to imply that the police in those places are simply doing a better job, I wouldn't agree with that at all.
Civilized
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Pacfanweb said:

Fine, then when you start admitting that all those things you just listed about blacks is true and is a huge part of their lot in life, we can get somewhere.

Nobody has ever said the police couldn't be better, but when you're trying to work things out, it helps if the other side is actually doing some of the work as well.

You could have police totally cease pulling blacks over and bothering them at all, and it wouldn't change the fact that blacks that make up 12-13% of the population are committing half the murders. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with the police.

For the sake of argument I'm perfectly willing to discuss the merits of mentorship programs, mandatory or incentivized military service, trade school promotion, or anything else people think would help break cycles of underemployment, unemployment, and poverty for all races in this country.

But discussing the issue of disparate outcomes and implicit racism in this country should not be conditioned on that conversation, or on anything else.

Black Americans should be able to be heard about the quantifiable impacts of implicit racism in America on their own merit, without conditions, distractions, or deflections.
Pacfanweb
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Civilized said:

Pacfanweb said:

Fine, then when you start admitting that all those things you just listed about blacks is true and is a huge part of their lot in life, we can get somewhere.

Nobody has ever said the police couldn't be better, but when you're trying to work things out, it helps if the other side is actually doing some of the work as well.

You could have police totally cease pulling blacks over and bothering them at all, and it wouldn't change the fact that blacks that make up 12-13% of the population are committing half the murders. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with the police.

For the sake of argument I'm perfectly willing to discuss the merits of mentorship programs, mandatory or incentivized military service, trade school promotion, or anything else people think would help break cycles of underemployment, unemployment, and poverty for all races in this country.

But discussing the issue of disparate outcomes and implicit racism in this country should not be conditioned on that conversation, or on anything else.

Black Americans should be able to be heard about the quantifiable impacts of implicit racism in America on their own merit, without conditions, distractions, or deflections.
So you're not willing to consider anything that requires them taking the slightest bit of responsibility for their own actions, then. Everything in their entire lives somehow has to do with racism, and they bear no responsibility at all for their lot in life. I figured that was where you were.
Civilized
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Pacfanweb said:

So you're not willing to consider anything that requires them taking the slightest bit of responsibility for their own actions, then. Everything in their entire lives somehow has to do with racism, and they bear no responsibility at all for their lot in life. I figured that was where you were.

Don't know where you got that from.

Sure, personal responsibility plays a role. Perfectly willing to consider its role in the context of a multi-faceted situation.

It's not all or nothing.

Poverty
Neighborhood crime
Responsibility
Education
Food insecurity
Housing insecurity
Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse
Role modeling
Parenting
Criminal Justice
Physical health
Mental health
Hiring practices
Community resources
Family wealth

And yes, implicit racism.

We can talk about any or all of those. They all play their part.

But there's no reason to do what many (almost exclusively white men) do and condition black Americans' ability to discuss implicit racism on first discussing and resolving any or all of the other contributing sociological factors to outcomes.

To do so is condescending and paternal and not tolerated in any other aspects of your life.

If your wife says "I'd like for us to discuss the way you sometimes speak to me makes me feel," let me know how it works out when you counter with "Not until we talk about your unresolved issues about your mom and dad's divorce."

Or when your boss says, "A bit of constructive criticism - we really need to hammer down on you pursuing incoming sales leads more aggressively" and you retort, "Only after we talk about the inadequacies of our company's health care package."

There's a huge difference between bringing up legitimate issues that warrant discussion - yes, including personal responsibility - independently, and bringing them up as a retort to other concerns raised by the black community.

One does not counter or invalidate the other, and worse, its a disrespectful deflection.
Bas2020
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acslater1344 said:

Welcome to message boards of InsidePackRacists.com

That's pathetic.


Just say- "I dont have any actual factual evidence to support my ideological beliefs". Better that than to resort to name calling.

Cancel culture at its finest. Resort to name calling when you have zero argument.

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