Would like to get thoughts on how to combat mass shootings. Trying to keep this focused on events like El Paso, Dayton, Aurora, Emmanuel, Sandy Hook, Pulse, etc. please don't turn this into a "bit Chicago had xxxx shootings last weekend thread.
curmudgeon.zen said:
Discussion needs to be about mental health, not gun control. Crazy homicidal folk are not going to stop being crazy and homicidal just because guns are illegal.
GuerrillaPack said:
So...the Dayton shooter is a supporter of Elizabeth Warren for President and a self-described socialist and Satanist.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/amp/
But I'm "crazy" for talking about the link between the Left and Marxism and Satanism.
And per the leftist Establishment media, we're supposed to believe that the only "solution" to crime is to destroy the Second Amendment, and start confiscating and banning guns. No. That's the communist agenda - disarm the masses, and totally subject the people under an all-powerful State/government.
The problem is not guns, which are a tool. It's wicked people.
statefan91 said:curmudgeon.zen said:
Discussion needs to be about mental health, not gun control. Crazy homicidal folk are not going to stop being crazy and homicidal just because guns are illegal.
Mental health issues are everywhere in the world but it seems like the US is the only place this happens on a weekly basis.
statefan91 said:curmudgeon.zen said:
Discussion needs to be about mental health, not gun control. Crazy homicidal folk are not going to stop being crazy and homicidal just because guns are illegal.
Mental health issues are everywhere in the world but it seems like the US is the only place this happens on a weekly basis.
PackBacker07 said:GuerrillaPack said:
So...the Dayton shooter is a supporter of Elizabeth Warren for President and a self-described socialist and Satanist.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/amp/
But I'm "crazy" for talking about the link between the Left and Marxism and Satanism.
And per the leftist Establishment media, we're supposed to believe that the only "solution" to crime is to destroy the Second Amendment, and start confiscating and banning guns. No. That's the communist agenda - disarm the masses, and totally subject the people under an all-powerful State/government.
The problem is not guns, which are a tool. It's wicked people.
And the El Paso shooter was an avowed right-wing, white supremacist. Who cares!? People are dying on our streets and I don't give a damn if the shooters lean left, right, up, down. This has to stop. It's sickening. A close second is this tripe trying to tie everything to socialism/communism/media bias. That's a very lazy out, to say the least.
PackBacker07 said:
I'm sick and damn tired of seeing mass shootings on the news multiple times a month. Something must be done. What the solution is, I do not know. But I also know doing nothing and tweeting "thoughts and prayers" is about as pathetic as it gets. See New Zealand's PM in response to Christchurch. Swift, to the point. Sucks that could never happen here in the States due to partisan BS. These shootings also need to be called out for what they are: domestic terrorism. Which btw affects many more Americans than the "war on terror" we are currently chasing around the globe.
statefan91 said:curmudgeon.zen said:
Discussion needs to be about mental health, not gun control. Crazy homicidal folk are not going to stop being crazy and homicidal just because guns are illegal.
Mental health issues are everywhere in the world but it seems like the US is the only place this happens on a weekly basis.
Background checks and licenses for gun ownership are a violation of the Second Amendment. Under the Second Amendment, we have the right to own and carry firearms. The concept of a "license" is that you are doing something that is illegal unless you have obtained permission from the government into order to do it. You do not need permission in order to exercise a God-given right. Imagine applying the concept of background checks or licensure to the other rights listed in the Bill of Rights -- such as the right to freedom of speech or the free exercise of religion. Should we ever have to get a background check before we exercise our right to freedom of speech or free exercise of religion? Or how about getting a license before you can exercise your right to freedom of speech or free exercise of religion?IseWolf22 said:
I theoretically would support universal background checks, tracking gun sales, and licensing for owners.
That said, I don't think that this would make a major sent on mass shootings. Most shooters would have been able to aquire guns legally even with these restrictions. And it'll be incredibly difficult to convince gun owners to agree to this given so many are scared that licensing and registration is just a precursor to siezure
The only source I could find from the link you provided was the Crime Prevention Research Center, a site that was founded by John Lott Jr. Here is his twitter bio: "President,Crime Prevention Research Cntr.Author The War on Guns;More Guns,Less Crime(Univ Chi Press,3rd ed);9 books.100+acad articles.FoxNews columnist.PhD econ"IseWolf22 said:statefan91 said:curmudgeon.zen said:
Discussion needs to be about mental health, not gun control. Crazy homicidal folk are not going to stop being crazy and homicidal just because guns are illegal.
Mental health issues are everywhere in the world but it seems like the US is the only place this happens on a weekly basis.
That's a media myth. Plenty of countries have equal or higher rates of mass shootings than the US. One recent study out us at 66th. It probably underestimated our ranking a bit by cutting off data at 2015, but we are hardly #1 in shootings like the media portrays.
We have the most gun deaths beacuase we have a huge population and most of our gun deaths are suicides. Violent crime and murder using guns has been generally going down the past 25 years and is currently 35% lower than its peak in the 90s
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/
Gun violence data is notoriously subject to political bias. It's really hard to find unbiased sources because of the number of different ways you can slice the data. I do not doubt that the source I gave was skewed.statefan91 said:The only source I could find from the link you provided was the Crime Prevention Research Center, a site that was founded by John Lott Jr. Here is his twitter bio: "President,Crime Prevention Research Cntr.Author The War on Guns;More Guns,Less Crime(Univ Chi Press,3rd ed);9 books.100+acad articles.FoxNews columnist.PhD econ"IseWolf22 said:
That's a media myth. Plenty of countries have equal or higher rates of mass shootings than the US. One recent study out us at 66th. It probably underestimated our ranking a bit by cutting off data at 2015, but we are hardly #1 in shootings like the media portrays.
We have the most gun deaths beacuase we have a huge population and most of our gun deaths are suicides. Violent crime and murder using guns has been generally going down the past 25 years and is currently 35% lower than its peak in the 90s
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/
Sort of hard to assess if he has any bias in what his site says and I can't find empirical data for other countries in comparison to the United States. I have family that lives abroad and never hear of the issues and shootings we see on a daily basis, but that's just my experience.
Exactly. The Establishment media and Democrat party ONLY push gun bans and gun control. They never address the real roots of violence. We've had free access to firearms in the United States for over 400 years, and much easier access prior to the last 40-50 years. And during that period (pre 1970s), we had extremely low crime in America. In the 1950s and 60s, school children would take their rifles to public schools, and have firearms training and practice.JeffreyDurkin said:
While I understand the need for the discussion to always immediately go to gun control, it always surprises me that the discussion rarely lands on "why?". Why in the past couple of decades has these types of attacks to become an outlet for disturbed people? Guns have always been around (I'm not saying anything new there), but what is causing this desire to inflict death on a large scale? I'm not buying political leanings or "Satanism", but is it a shift in culture with violent video games, social media with "trolls" who try their hardest to be cruel and indifferent, high divorce rates, and a constant news cycle of who can be more outraged than the other talking heads over every perceived slight?
It always goes to gun control for the answer. I am an owner of several guns and I have no problem with a few more restrictions on purchasing guns. But that won't solve the problem. Sadly there have been so many attacks that I can't even recall exactly which one this was, but one of the school shootings in the past couple of years was with a revolver and a shotgun. None of those would have been classified as an "assault" weapon, so gun control would not have stopped him. At some point we have to start looking at the reasons behind the attacks.
The research here is pretty one sided. No one can show that violent video games increase propensity to violencestatefan91 said:
Why does everyone say video games are a cause of these shootings? Kids in Japan and South Korea play the same video games non-stop and they don't have these issues.
I haven't seen any mention of the guns used in the Gilroy, El Paso, or Dayton shootings. What kind were they?JocoPack said:
Why do people only focus on shootings with a certain gun? If one is going to stand for gun-control, stand for gun-control. Not just for a certain gun that doesn't even kill the most people per year.
The El Paso shooter did not have an ak-47. Automatic AK-47s are illegal.Glasswolf said:
The El Paso shooter had a ak-47. The Dayton shooter had a .223 caliber with several 100 shot clips
My mistake for posting between meetings. Actually the SKS was used in the Gilroy shooting. I got my wires crossed.IseWolf22 said:The El Paso shooter did not have an ak-47. Automatic AK-47s are illegal.Glasswolf said:
The El Paso shooter had a ak-47. The Dayton shooter had a .223 caliber with several 100 shot clips
He had an SKS, a semi-auto rifle that looks somewhat similar. It has a 10 round magazine that isn't detachable.