RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Keep this thread on topic. This ain't about debt, Paul Ryan, etc. It's about the special counsel report and investigation.

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My bad.

Well now we will have a nice week of theatrics on the release of the full report. Another round of hand wringing by the talking heads when the (probably redacted) full report is released. Trump will bellow about Witch Hunts from now until he dies.

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Keep this thread on topic. This ain't about debt, Paul Ryan, etc. It's about the special counsel report and investigation.

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Aye aye .

In that case, I hope the Mueller report is actually released to the extent that it can be. If it vindicates the President there shouldn't be any holdup by the powers that be, although it looks like Mitch McConnell is already trying to block its release for some reason...?

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Even Barr's summary said it didn't vindicate him. There just isn't enough evidence to say that a crime definitely occurred.

Hey I started a different thread to be respectful of this investigation thread

I think it should be realeased publicly but I also think that who ever is president should do their own press releases everyday and go through what all is going on at this point in time with the government.

Apparently the report will be released in weeks and not months. Dems want everything releases but federal law prohibits grand jury info being released in report. Will the Dems cry wolf and cover up if the grand jury info isn't released? Will the Republicans fight the release of information that can be released? More importantly. Will this **** ever end?

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Apparently the report will be released in weeks and not months. Dems want everything releases but federal law prohibits grand jury info being released in report. Will the Dems cry wolf and cover up if the grand jury info isn't released? Will the Republicans fight the release of information that can be released? More importantly. Will this **** ever end?

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I think they should push for as much as possible to be released. The fact that the gatekeeper to the information is currently the General Attorney that President Trump selected, who has previously said that President can't obstruct justice, lends plenty of ammo for being unhappy with major retractions.

Also - this isn't a good look. More ammo for asking *** is going on:

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Apparently the report will be released in weeks and not months. Dems want everything releases but federal law prohibits grand jury info being released in report. Will the Dems cry wolf and cover up if the grand jury info isn't released? Will the Republicans fight the release of information that can be released? More importantly. Will this **** ever end?

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I think they should push for as much as possible to be released. The fact that the gatekeeper to the information is currently the General Attorney that President Trump selected, who has previously said that President can't obstruct justice, lends plenty of ammo for being unhappy with major retractions.

Also - this isn't a good look. More ammo for asking *** is going on:

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Yeah, there is no reason congress shouldn't get a redacted copy of the actual report.

That said, I would NOT be surprised for a 2020 candidate to leak whatever they are given and then try and turn flouting the law into publicity (see Corey Booker's "spartacus moment")

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Congress can subpoena mueller to testify now.

Glasswolf said:

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Congress can subpoena mueller to testify now.

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True but it is still against the law to release the grand jury info, especially when no further indictments were made. My concern is that the left will scream from the mountains tops if the law is not broken so they can see everything, even what isn't supposed to be seen. At the same time, the right will scream from the other mountain top of anything shows Trump is wrong. Point is, if the roles were reversed, the right would continue to push their narrative hair as the left is now. Neither side gives a damn about truth or facts. They care about getting re-elected.

Truthfully, I imagine that the "left" truly is wanting to understand the depths of contact between an adversarial country (Russia) and our President.

Disclosure - I am an Unaffiliated voter but lean more to the left than right.

My concerns:
- Trump literally asked the Russians to hack Clinton during a Presidential debate. Shortly after leaks come out with materials hacked from Clinton
- Trump Tower meeting - why have their been so many versions of the story and what was actually discussed?
- Trump's professional entanglements - why did he deny every investing in or trying to build in Russia? Also, with him and his family remaining involved with Trump company, he's opened himself up to a crazy amount of financial influence via foreign governments staying at his hotels, and the potential laundering of money through purchases and sales of Trump properties

statefan91 said:

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Truthfully, I imagine that the "left" truly is wanting to understand the depths of contact between an adversarial country (Russia) and our President.

Disclosure - I am an Unaffiliated voter but lean more to the left than right.

My concerns:
- Trump literally asked the Russians to hack Clinton during a Presidential debate. Shortly after leaks come out with materials hacked from Clinton
- Trump Tower meeting - why have their been so many versions of the story and what was actually discussed?
- Trump's professional entanglements - why did he deny every investing in or trying to build in Russia? Also, with him and his family remaining involved with Trump company, he's opened himself up to a crazy amount of financial influence via foreign governments staying at his hotels, and the potential laundering of money through purchases and sales of Trump properties

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My simple answer Trump is just a liar. He can't help himself. He just lies and lies. I am also an independent that pretty much falls in the middle on most issues. I wonder if all the report does come out, does it implicate some higher level Dems as well? Wouldn't that be a fun time. The left screaming the right is crooked and the right screaming the left is crooked just to find out they both are. Oh wait, we already knew this. Just wish it would all go away but as I said earlier, the political climate will never allow normalcy again and nothing will ever get accomplished that truly matters to tax paying citizens.

I understand what you're saying, but I can't let it slide just because he's always been a liar. That's tough to stomach when the implications of what he's lying about have global geopolitical ramifications.

statefan91 said:

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I understand what you're saying, but I can't let it slide just because he's always been a liar. That's tough to stomach when the implications of what he's lying about have global geopolitical ramifications.

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Agreed but we could say that about most any president. They lie just to help themselves out with whoever they need. It's a terrible cycle but one that I don't see ever ending. What I find funny is how Trump touts tax cuts and tax reform when it is crystal clear to Stevie Wonder that it's designed to help him and his family. It's just as bad as Obama and his disaster of Obamacare. It's all designed to help the person or persons in power. Regardless, I wish the whole special investigation, Russia, blah blah blah would go away!

Eh - every President May lie but it's unprecedented how Trump will lie about every. single. thing.

Also - Obamacare has actually been relatively successful in securing healthcare for a significant part of the population, especially those with preexisting conditions. I'll take that to the other thread though since this is just about special investigation

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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My simple answer Trump is just a liar. He can't help himself. He just lies and lies. I am also an independent that pretty much falls in the middle on most issues. I wonder if all the report does come out, does it implicate some higher level Dems as well? Wouldn't that be a fun time. The left screaming the right is crooked and the right screaming the left is crooked just to find out they both are. Oh wait, we already knew this. Just wish it would all go away but as I said earlier, the political climate will never allow normalcy again and nothing will ever get accomplished that truly matters to tax paying citizens.

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I agree that Trump is just a compulsive liar. He lies even when he gets nothing out of it.

As for asking to hack Clinton in the debate, that was clearly a joke. I'm sure he was happy it actually happened but I think everyone trying to connect that to anything in a meaningful way is giving Trump waaay to much credit.

Report, or at least part of it, to be released Thursday. How loud will the *****ing and moaning be by the politicians and media heads? Should be at the least, funny, to watch it all play out. In the end, Trump is a dirty crook and so are the rest of the idiots in DC

It does seem pretty suspect that it's taken this long to get it out, especially since it's been reported that Mueller's team had summaries ready to go.

It's also weird that Rudy is on twitter saying they have a 35 page response ready to go, when technically no one is supposed to have seen it except the DOJ.

I have little faith that the AG Trump put forward, who has expressed unsolicited views of wide ranging Presidential powers, will be the best steward of the truth but I could be wrong .

Yeah...a press conference before anyone has a chance to read it (i.e. no informed questions based on the materials), not releasing it to Congress until an hour and a half later, and delivering it via CD instead of digital reeks of delay delay delay.

I will surprised if Trump's team doesn't have a response out even before Congress has a chance to see it

statefan91 said:

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Yeah...a press conference before anyone has a chance to read it (i.e. no informed questions based on the materials), not releasing it to Congress until an hour and a half later, and delivering it via CD instead of digital reeks of delay delay delay.

I will surprised if Trump's team doesn't have a response out even before Congress has a chance to see it

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They should have a response ready before Congress gets the report. Any "defendant" should have the right to have a response ready. As someone who is not a trump supporter, I couldn't care less what Congress or trumps team says. I care what is in the report and the facts of the report. Redactions should and will happen. I want to see the report where Mueller says he didn't or did work with Russia to rig the election. I've seen nothing that says it will say he or his team did. As bad as I hated the 2016 election and who there was to pick from, if he didn't do anything wrong, move on

That's the thing - Barr already came out initially and said there was no criminality. And "Team Trump" has been playing up total exoneration, so not sure the need for them to get it first and need to prepare a rebuttal.

Just seems quite obvious that the Attorney General is more interested in protecting the President than anything else

statefan91 said:

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That's the thing - Barr already came out initially and said there was no criminality. And "Team Trump" has been playing up total exoneration, so not sure the need for them to get it first and need to prepare a rebuttal.

Just seems quite obvious that the Attorney General is more interested in protecting the President than anything else

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From everything I've seen, read and heard, he is following the law. You can't release but so much of the report. Am I to assume you won't be satisfied regardless unless it shows Trump did work with Russia? Asking honestly because your responses seem to make one think that.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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From everything I've seen, read and heard, he is following the law. You can't release but so much of the report. Am I to assume you won't be satisfied regardless unless it shows Trump did work with Russia? Asking honestly because your responses seem to make one think that.

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Hm - not intending to come off that way. I honestly don't care what the Mueller report says from a conclusion standpoint, I just want transparency. I also don't expect a completely unredacted version to make it to the public, however Congressional Oversight committees regularly handle confidential information and should be able to see a version with far fewer redactions than whatever version the public is provided. The Attorney General's priority should not be to protect the President, that's not his job.

You have interpreted my statements as wanting Trump to be proven guilty of collusion / obstruction but that's not accurate. I think the last two years everyone has lost the idea of oversight. It's OK for Congress to investigate things, that's part of their job. They should have the ability to investigate and hold people accountable for things, even if they are not criminal. Just because someone is not found to have done enough to be indicted doesn't mean they're in the clear.

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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From everything I've seen, read and heard, he is following the law. You can't release but so much of the report. Am I to assume you won't be satisfied regardless unless it shows Trump did work with Russia? Asking honestly because your responses seem to make one think that.

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Hm - not intending to come off that way. I honestly don't care what the Mueller report says from a conclusion standpoint, I just want transparency. I also don't expect a completely unredacted version to make it to the public, however Congressional Oversight committees regularly handle confidential information and should be able to see a version with far fewer redactions than whatever version the public is provided. The Attorney General's priority should not be to protect the President, that's not his job.

You have interpreted my statements as wanting Trump to be proven guilty of collusion / obstruction but that's not accurate. I think the last two years everyone has lost the idea of oversight. It's OK for Congress to investigate things, that's part of their job. They should have the ability to investigate and hold people accountable for things, even if they are not criminal. Just because someone is not found to have done enough to be indicted doesn't mean they're in the clear.

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Gotcha. I understood your comments to mean otherwise so thanks for clearing that up for me. My issue with oversight and them seeing the entire report is that, with the current political environment, I don't see any way that confidential information will be kept that way. The leaks will happen if things aren't redacted just simply because of the political environment we are in right now imo. Wether it be good or bad for Dems or Republicans, it will leak and that puts those who did testify at risk. Wish we lived in an environment where that wasn't the case but at this time, we don't. I won't all the info but not a the expense of those who testified with the belief their testimony would never be revealed .

What do you mean in this current environment? Politics have always been vary partisan by their nature, and there have been leaks of information for likely the entirety of our nation's history.

statefan91 said:

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What do you mean in this current environment? Politics have always been vary partisan by their nature, and there have been leaks of information for likely the entirety of our nation's history.

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If you think this political environment isn't different then other times in history, you ain't paying attention. There are more then many who have an agenda here, whether you are a den or Republican, or like myself, an independent. Today, people don't care who is hurt by leaking grand jury info, etc. They only care about how it benefits them. This brings me right back to today's political environment. The full, un-redacted report should never be released to the public or why committee because not a single committee member gives a damn about doing the right thing, only about how it benefits them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I feel you have too much faith in politician's of the past. Information is much more accessible today, that's about the only change in my opinion.

statefan91 said:

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I feel you have too much faith in politician's of the past. Information is much more accessible today, that's about the only change in my opinion.

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By most measures and analysts, politics the past few years have gotten much more toxic. More than any other time people are likely to say that they see the people of the opposite party as a threat and would not support their child marrying someone of the opposite party. I also believe there has been a general erosion of respect for process and entities.

That said, congress should see an unredacted copy. One of their main jobs is to be a check on the executive branch. They can and should have the ability to see everything. A redacted copy for the public is OK but even then I believe transparency should be the goal and redaction should be minimal

You're right, and I guess that's what I was trying to point out. Congress is Congress, Politicians are Politicians. They're a mixed bag of some Patriotic, some Nationalist, some Racist, some Business focused, some focused on themselves and themselves only, some interested in protecting the less fortunate, some interested in protecting the constitution, etc, etc. They've always backstabbed and leaked and done all of the above, it's just that now the public has so much greater access to the information, the 24 hours news cycle, etc.

All that said, Congressional Oversight is Congressional Oversight. Despite thinking that this environment has changed how people will act, they're afforded these responsibilities via the constitution.

Lots of interesting tidbits coming out of people actually getting to read the report: