So hopefully, we get Ryan Marohn back. If we do, we aren't going to see him start a game in my opinion until the ACC tourney at the earliest, and possibly a regional should we get there. I do think that if we are to get him back you will see him in relief vs. UNC, or as an opener - going 2-3 innings. We won't see an extended start in his first game back. And then we likely extend him some in his next appearance, gearing up for the postseason.

We have talked about it a lot on our podcast - but curious as to what the Pack9 enthusiasts here think about the rotation -

I think we are kind of getting to the point, that where we know Andrews can give you really good quality starts at times - he also can get knocked around in a hurry - the 11 walks in his last 3 starts are more troubling to me than the hits - because he doesn't particularly miss a lot of bats, the .290 baa mixed with the walks can spell disaster.

Without RM - I like -
1. Coop
2. Hemric
3. Garino
Pen - Nance, Ragusa, Andrews, Harris Kitchens, Black, Manuel, Potts, Heintz etc.

With RM as a starter I like -
1. RM
2. Coop
3. Hemric

This of course adds bullpen depth with Garino

Hemric seemingly is a guy that can get you 3-5 innings and be really effective so you like the length but the walks that come and go makes him a little less steady out of the pen imo. Really like the sub .200 baa
And I think he is destined to be a future starter.

Also as we mentioned on the podcast this week, should we go down 1-0 in a regional, and havent burned Nance, I'm 100% starting him game 2.

I dont expect changes before/if Marohn comes back but wondering what you all think.

I doubt you see three lefty starters.

Easiest thing would be to swap Nance and Marhon, also doubt we see that.

I gave up guessing what EA and his staff will do a long time ago, we are rarely right lol.

Let see who gets hot and can give you a few consistent outings outside on Nance

Really a crap shoot at this point

Is there any intel out there on Marohn? Seems we just know he's out for now, but I've never heard any details on the injury or timeline other than "week to week" for what, a month now? Probably not a good sign.

Not going to happen but I would go

Coop
Nance
Hemric

Move Andrews to pen role

WolfQuacker said:

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Is there any intel out there on Marohn? Seems we just know he's out for now, but I've never heard any details on the injury or timeline other than "week to week" for what, a month now? Probably not a good sign.

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From everything I've heard, my expectation is that we do get Marohn back. Related to the bicep that he missed the Lafayette start for earlier in the year - and he came back strong after that missed start.

PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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Not going to happen but I would go

Coop
Nance
Hemric

Move Andrews to pen role

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I don't know, I just think a dominant bullpen arm is more valuable than a 3rd starter in a best of 3 series.

In theory I would go Mahron, Coop, Andrews.

Nance and Garino first calls out of the pen. Go all in to win the first 2 then piece it together with Andrews and the freshman if needed on Sunday

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Yeah I disagree. Nance may get inconsequential innings on certain weekends of games get away in either direction early. If I start Nance he can definitively impact a game by giving you 7 winning innings. The pen can go get 6 outs. You are looking for Nance to contribute to 1 win on the weekend realistically. I prefer to ensure that opportunity is provided by starting him.
Not to mention maybe Andrew's stuff plays up out of the pen. Who knows.

You go into a regional you tell me you want Andrew's starting game 2 and not Nance?

Figure the bullpen out. You have Garino maybe you can get quality work out of Marohn and Andrews down the stretch from the pen. You have a ton of arms. No reason we should have 10 guys down there that can't help us. Find a couple who can.

Coop
Nance
Hemric

Think it is all a mute point, I'd about bet my life savings Nance isn't joining the rotation this year.

PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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Not going to happen but I would go

Coop
Nance
Hemric

Move Andrews to pen role

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I don't know, I just think a dominant bullpen arm is more valuable than a 3rd starter in a best of 3 series.

In theory I would go Mahron, Coop, Andrews.

Nance and Garino first calls out of the pen. Go all in to win the first 2 then piece it together with Andrews and the freshman if needed on Sunday

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Yeah I disagree. Nance may get inconsequential innings on certain weekends of games get away in either direction early. If I start Nance he can definitively impact a game by giving you 7 winning innings. The pen can go get 6 outs. You are looking for Nance to contribute to 1 win on the weekend realistically. I prefer to ensure that opportunity is provided by starting him.
Not to mention maybe Andrew's stuff plays up out of the pen. Who knows.

You go into a regional you tell me you want Andrew's starting game 2 and not Nance?

Figure the bullpen out. You have Garino maybe you can get quality work out of Marohn and Andrews down the stretch from the pen. You have a ton of arms. No reason we should have 10 guys down there that can't help us. Find a couple who can.

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I like the control of being able to pick and choose when you use your best arm. Coming out of the pen you can use Nance in the highest leverage moment across the entire series. Whether that's the 6th inning of game 1 or closing out game 3.

You're not trying to "eat innings" you're trying to win two games. High leverage outs mean a lot more than bulk innings. A guy who can lock down 4-6 of the most important outs of the series is more valuable than someone who gives you 6-7 innings in just one game. And often times those last few outs of a game are the hardest to get.

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As Long as the high leverage outs actually come to fruition. We have to agree to disagree. Nance may be your best starter. Hard for me to leave my best starter out of the rotation. Doesn't intuitively make much sense to me.

Jtilley said:

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Think it is all a mute point, I'd about bet my life savings Nance isn't joining the rotation this year.

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Agree even though he may be your best starter right now.

We really need Andrews to step up because I don't think he is coming out of the starting lineup. He's been there for two years and no bad outings has knocked him out of the starting rotation. We need his best down the stretch. But if it was up to me.....

Nance/Marohn
Coop/Andrews
Hemric/Garino

If Marohn gets back into shape and can give you 5/6 innings then flip him to a starter and pair with Garino. Have Nance with Hemric.

EthanBarry said:

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I think there's two different conversations. What are you doing in a series and what are you doing in a regional when you have to win a third game?

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You have to make the damn tournament first. I personally am not letting Andrews throw another weekend game but that's just me.

You basically have to go in thinking you are going to win games two and three with him pitching. You lose 2 out of 3 vs Stanford and this is a different conversation.

PGAWolf said:

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Jtilley said:

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EthanBarry said:

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I think there's two different conversations. What are you doing in a series and what are you doing in a regional when you have to win a third game?

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You have to make the damn tournament first. I personally am not letting Andrews throw another weekend game but that's just me.

You basically have to go in thinking you are going to win games two and three with him pitching. You lose 2 out of 3 vs Stanford and this is a different conversation.

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Seems a little aggressive of a statement considering Consiglio has been marginally better during ACC play than Andrews.

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That wasn't meant to be a knock, you just never know about game three in a three game series.

If you split games one or two and burn Nance you aren't setup too well for game three IMO.

We also haven't won a road series yet, hopefully that changes but feels like this is a must win series. I doubt Andrews moves from the rotation so hopefully he throws best game of his career.

Andrews is a pitch to contact guy that while not great, has also not always gotten good run support or help in the field. He needs to pitch better, and his team needs to play better for him. When you're down your two best guys, you need things to break your way, it's not gonna always look ideal, just gotta piece 27 outs together somehow. I actually think we've done decently given the circumstances.

All I'm saying is a regional series is the last thing I'd be thinking about right now as a staff. Figure that out if and when it happens.

You have to win a road conference series imo or you are on outside looking in unless you beat UNC and go far in ACC tournament.

Marohn may start against unc but he will be on a strict pitch count. The ACCT and regionals is another subject. If ready I wouldn't be surprised to see him throw a few innings against Stanford

Jtilley said:

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All I'm saying is a regional series is the last thing I'd be thinking about right now as a staff. Figure that out if and when it happens.

You have to win a road conference series imo or you are on outside looking in unless you beat UNC and go far in ACC tournament.

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Agree. Critical series this weekend and I am running out my 3 best options rather than punting on game 1 to save a guy for leverage innings that may or may not come.

Alex Gee said:

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State should've swept the last two weekends based on pitching fwiw. I wouldn't change a thing.

Couldn't hit G1 at VT. No clutch hitting in G3.

Defense early in G1 last week.

In 8 ACC starts plus Coastal, Andrews has been good enough to very good in 6 of those and I'm still not convinced Wake didn't have a line to State's pitch comm. Nance is one of the most unique and effective bullpen arms in the country. The value in a series to insert him into leverage spots and hold a lead is unmatched. Ask Miami. Two ends of the spectrum there.

Regional play is different because you are trying to win everything, or lose your single game by a tremendous amount/steal one. I still think Nance's value is higher from the bullpen though. His stuff plays better in those spots.

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Not surprised this is your take. Just have to hope a leverage spot emerges each weekend.

ICW Wolf said:

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Alex Gee said:

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State should've swept the last two weekends based on pitching fwiw. I wouldn't change a thing.

Couldn't hit G1 at VT. No clutch hitting in G3.

Defense early in G1 last week.

In 8 ACC starts plus Coastal, Andrews has been good enough to very good in 6 of those and I'm still not convinced Wake didn't have a line to State's pitch comm. Nance is one of the most unique and effective bullpen arms in the country. The value in a series to insert him into leverage spots and hold a lead is unmatched. Ask Miami. Two ends of the spectrum there.

Regional play is different because you are trying to win everything, or lose your single game by a tremendous amount/steal one. I still think Nance's value is higher from the bullpen though. His stuff plays better in those spots.

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Not surprised this is your take. Just have to hope a leverage spot emerges each weekend.

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We keep worrying about not having leverage moments, but it works both ways. What if you start Nance and State scores 10 runs in the first three innings

Or you start Nance and the bullpen blows the lead.

In my opinion the most effective way to win a game would be Mahron to Nance. Assuming Mahron is healthy.

Thats going to give you a shot against anyone in the country.

PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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Alex Gee said:

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State should've swept the last two weekends based on pitching fwiw. I wouldn't change a thing.

Couldn't hit G1 at VT. No clutch hitting in G3.

Defense early in G1 last week.

In 8 ACC starts plus Coastal, Andrews has been good enough to very good in 6 of those and I'm still not convinced Wake didn't have a line to State's pitch comm. Nance is one of the most unique and effective bullpen arms in the country. The value in a series to insert him into leverage spots and hold a lead is unmatched. Ask Miami. Two ends of the spectrum there.

Regional play is different because you are trying to win everything, or lose your single game by a tremendous amount/steal one. I still think Nance's value is higher from the bullpen though. His stuff plays better in those spots.

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Not surprised this is your take. Just have to hope a leverage spot emerges each weekend.

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We keep worrying about not having leverage moments, but it works both ways. What if you start Nance and State scores 10 runs in the first three innings

Or you start Nance and the bullpen blows the lead.

In my opinion the most effective way to win a game would be Mahron to Nance. Assuming Mahron is healthy.

Thats going to give you a shot against anyone in the country.

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If Mahron is available and isn't on a strict pitch count I agree.

I don't invasion on anything changing at all with the rotation outside of Marhon taking Hemericks spot.

I don't hate the idea of swapping Nance and Marhon if Marhon is on a hard pitch count but I still don't see it happening.

Andrews is up and down but you really don't have any other options, but I would probably have him on a shorter leash. Stakes are just to high IMO to hope we are going to keep scoring 10+ runs a game to leave him in for a blowup spot.

Alex Gee said:

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PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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Alex Gee said:

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State should've swept the last two weekends based on pitching fwiw. I wouldn't change a thing.

Couldn't hit G1 at VT. No clutch hitting in G3.

Defense early in G1 last week.

In 8 ACC starts plus Coastal, Andrews has been good enough to very good in 6 of those and I'm still not convinced Wake didn't have a line to State's pitch comm. Nance is one of the most unique and effective bullpen arms in the country. The value in a series to insert him into leverage spots and hold a lead is unmatched. Ask Miami. Two ends of the spectrum there.

Regional play is different because you are trying to win everything, or lose your single game by a tremendous amount/steal one. I still think Nance's value is higher from the bullpen though. His stuff plays better in those spots.

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Not surprised this is your take. Just have to hope a leverage spot emerges each weekend.

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We keep worrying about not having leverage moments, but it works both ways. What if you start Nance and State scores 10 runs in the first three innings

Or you start Nance and the bullpen blows the lead.

In my opinion the most effective way to win a game would be Mahron to Nance. Assuming Mahron is healthy.

Thats going to give you a shot against anyone in the country.

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He has 17 appearances this year including every conference series, appearing multiple times in 2. Every single time he's entered in a big spot. It's a fallacy argument that we'd go a weekend without Nance able to pitch in a big situation.

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You absolutely have to have nance in the pen. You basically have no one proven to be able to relieve at his level

Maybe thr Pirates should start working Skenes out if the pen. Nance is a starter profile. It is a low effort delivery with a 3 pitch mix and up to 97. It screams starter not bullpen guy. But he is a RHP who isn't 6'4 so I guess he is relegated to the pen.

Do you think Dudan was more valuable as the bullpen guy with 30 innings or whatever he had last year or as a starter before injury this year. If you say last year you are lying.

ICW Wolf said:

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Maybe thr Pirates should start working Skenes out if the pen. Nance is a starter profile. It is a low effort delivery with a 3 pitch mix and up to 97. It screams starter not bullpen guy. But he is a RHP who isn't 6'4 so I guess he is relegated to the pen.

Do you think Dudan was more valuable as the bullpen guy with 30 innings or whatever he had last year or as a starter before injury this year. If you say last year you are lying.

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Staff has being doing something similar to this for a while.

Id imagine Nance moves to the rotation next year, similar to what Dudan did.

In an ideal world I am going Namce for 7 on Friday with Garino for 2, Consiflio for 7 on Sunday with Garino for 2 and starting Hemric on Saturday with Andrews and full pen.

It's interesting we have never seen Andrews in a bullpen role that I can recall. Maybe his stuff plays up in 2 or 3 inning role. Would be interested to see. Worked for Justice for sure.

Jtilley said:

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PGAWolf said:

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ICW Wolf said:

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Alex Gee said:

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State should've swept the last two weekends based on pitching fwiw. I wouldn't change a thing.

Couldn't hit G1 at VT. No clutch hitting in G3.

Defense early in G1 last week.

In 8 ACC starts plus Coastal, Andrews has been good enough to very good in 6 of those and I'm still not convinced Wake didn't have a line to State's pitch comm. Nance is one of the most unique and effective bullpen arms in the country. The value in a series to insert him into leverage spots and hold a lead is unmatched. Ask Miami. Two ends of the spectrum there.

Regional play is different because you are trying to win everything, or lose your single game by a tremendous amount/steal one. I still think Nance's value is higher from the bullpen though. His stuff plays better in those spots.

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Not surprised this is your take. Just have to hope a leverage spot emerges each weekend.

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We keep worrying about not having leverage moments, but it works both ways. What if you start Nance and State scores 10 runs in the first three innings

Or you start Nance and the bullpen blows the lead.

In my opinion the most effective way to win a game would be Mahron to Nance. Assuming Mahron is healthy.

Thats going to give you a shot against anyone in the country.

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If Mahron is available and isn't on a strict pitch count I agree.

I don't invasion on anything changing at all with the rotation outside of Marhon taking Hemericks spot.

I don't hate the idea of swapping Nance and Marhon if Marhon is on a hard pitch count but I still don't see it happening.

Andrews is up and down but you really don't have any other options, but I would probably have him on a shorter leash. Stakes are just to high IMO to hope we are going to keep scoring 10+ runs a game to leave him in for a blowup spot.

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I also think having another lefty on the pen could be a good thing.