James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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PackHawk0619 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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KKandDD said:

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I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

---

Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

---

How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

---

One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

---

They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

What's mind boggling James is that you or anybody else thinks this is about "safety". Its not. GTFOOH

WE WEREN'T GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PAUSE. The NCAA kicked us out of the tournament at one in the damn morning. That's what we are mad about. What was the rush? Give us a chance to verify the tests, give us a chance to contact trace. They let the vaccinated players play, changed their minds about testing them, and then didn't give us any chance to regroup. That's not in the protocol that anyone agreed to. Maybe it ends the same way, but for appearances sake, it looks way more fair. We deserved that at the very least.

Wolfmac said:

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What's mind boggling James is that you or anybody else thinks this is about "safety". Its not. GTFOOH

---

No one thinks it is about safety. Its about CYA by the NCAA. But what the rules were and how the NCAA would react was completely predictable.

James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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wilmwolf80 said:

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James Henderson said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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wilmwolf80 said:

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Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.

---

Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.

---

Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.

---

Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.

---

I'm not taking any angle. I'm simply stating teams were given a sheet with rules prior to the tournament. They sent that same set of testing rules to media members. We had access to them.

No one was complaining about fans being in the stands then. Teams were being tested/vaccinated accordingly. Hell the NCAA had other teams lined up to replace teams that couldn't get fully cleared due to testing.

Doesn't that right there tell you as a team the NCAA is serious about this? They had I think 5 teams ready to come in as replacements.

They were still taking testing and protocol serious. I don't get what's hard to understand about that. But instead of focusing on that, we want to focus on fans being in the stands. I don't follow that logic.

Teams knew what they needed to do. If you have unvaxed players, they were going to be tested every other day once at an active site. It's your job to try and do your best to make sure they aren't at risk of testing positive, because if they do test positive, you could be going home, period.

Some of the stuff I've heard relative to State's players and the way unvaxed players were seemingly allowed to be 'relaxed' throughout all of this is concerning. That concerns me more than "well fans were there.'

---

In the "rules" you were given was it permitted for Vandy to have "send off hotel parties" and direct interaction with fans in and outside of the stadium? I mean if the NCAA was so "serious" about safety and protocols and such....

---

I don't follow what fans have to do with the actual testing of teams/players/Teir 1 participants.

If you want to have a hotel party that's on you, but if you come back with a positive, that's your ass.

---

Reid Johnston was not within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes last week.

Reid Johnston had 6 negative tests.

Yet the NCAA declared him to fall into "contact tracing".

How does the NCAA make that decision when they have ZERO evidence to support it.

Just like how the Clemson offensive line and quarterbacks, and roomates of Trevor Lawrence apparently were not within 6 feet of Lawrence for 15+ min.

The NCAA lumped all of our kids together and put them in one category without a shred of evidence.

Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

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James Henderson said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

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wilmwolf80 said:

---

Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.

---

Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.

---

Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.

---

Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.

---

I'm not taking any angle. I'm simply stating teams were given a sheet with rules prior to the tournament. They sent that same set of testing rules to media members. We had access to them.

No one was complaining about fans being in the stands then. Teams were being tested/vaccinated accordingly. Hell the NCAA had other teams lined up to replace teams that couldn't get fully cleared due to testing.

Doesn't that right there tell you as a team the NCAA is serious about this? They had I think 5 teams ready to come in as replacements.

They were still taking testing and protocol serious. I don't get what's hard to understand about that. But instead of focusing on that, we want to focus on fans being in the stands. I don't follow that logic.

Teams knew what they needed to do. If you have unvaxed players, they were going to be tested every other day once at an active site. It's your job to try and do your best to make sure they aren't at risk of testing positive, because if they do test positive, you could be going home, period.

Some of the stuff I've heard relative to State's players and the way unvaxed players were seemingly allowed to be 'relaxed' throughout all of this is concerning. That concerns me more than "well fans were there.'

---

In the "rules" you were given was it permitted for Vandy to have "send off hotel parties" and direct interaction with fans in and outside of the stadium? I mean if the NCAA was so "serious" about safety and protocols and such....

---

I don't follow what fans have to do with the actual testing of teams/players/Teir 1 participants.

If you want to have a hotel party that's on you, but if you come back with a positive, that's your ass.

---

Reid Johnston was not within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes last week.

Reid Johnston had 6 negative tests.

Yet the NCAA declared him to fall into "contact tracing".

How does the NCAA make that decision when they have ZERO evidence to support it.

Just like how the Clemson offensive line and quarterbacks, and roomates of Trevor Lawrence apparently were not within 6 feet of Lawrence for 15+ min.

The NCAA lumped all of our kids together and put them in one category without a shred of evidence.

---

This is it right here....The NCAA has rules in place, but they are obviously arbitrary depending on the school.

James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

PackHawk0619 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

KKandDD said:

---

I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

---

Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

---

How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

---

One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

---

They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

---

I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.

maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.

You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.

---

Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.

I am sorry Mr. Coorigan, I can't make my fingers type it any more.

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.

---

Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.

---

Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.

---

Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.

---

I'm not taking any angle. I'm simply stating teams were given a sheet with rules prior to the tournament. They sent that same set of testing rules to media members. We had access to them.

No one was complaining about fans being in the stands then. Teams were being tested/vaccinated accordingly. Hell the NCAA had other teams lined up to replace teams that couldn't get fully cleared due to testing.

Doesn't that right there tell you as a team the NCAA is serious about this? They had I think 5 teams ready to come in as replacements.

They were still taking testing and protocol serious. I don't get what's hard to understand about that. But instead of focusing on that, we want to focus on fans being in the stands. I don't follow that logic.

Teams knew what they needed to do. If you have unvaxed players, they were going to be tested every other day once at an active site. It's your job to try and do your best to make sure they aren't at risk of testing positive, because if they do test positive, you could be going home, period.

Some of the stuff I've heard relative to State's players and the way unvaxed players were seemingly allowed to be 'relaxed' throughout all of this is concerning. That concerns me more than "well fans were there.'

---

In the "rules" you were given was it permitted for Vandy to have "send off hotel parties" and direct interaction with fans in and outside of the stadium? I mean if the NCAA was so "serious" about safety and protocols and such....

---

I don't follow what fans have to do with the actual testing of teams/players/Teir 1 participants.

If you want to have a hotel party that's on you, but if you come back with a positive, that's your ass.

---

Reid Johnston was not within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes last week.

Reid Johnston had 6 negative tests.

Yet the NCAA declared him to fall into "contact tracing".

How does the NCAA make that decision when they have ZERO evidence to support it.

Just like how the Clemson offensive line and quarterbacks, and roomates of Trevor Lawrence apparently were not within 6 feet of Lawrence for 15+ min.

The NCAA lumped all of our kids together and put them in one category without a shred of evidence.

---

Reid Johnston had at most 2 negative tests after JT Jarrett tested positive. I had 4 after my daughter tested positive. I still ended up testing positive. That's why you continue to get tested.

I don't know who Reid was or wasn't around. We stil don't know who all was actually positive so I'm not sure how we could know if Reid was within 6 feet of an infected person or not.

---

Under that rule the Phoenix Suns should still be in contact tracing for Chris Paul and should have never been allowed to play.


This is a virus with 0.0000000001 affect on 18-22 year old college students.

Wolfmac said:

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What's mind boggling James is that you or anybody else thinks this is about "safety". Its not. GTFOOH

---

Wrong on a couple of levels - hope this helps you understand! Rules are rules - I think we all get why NC State was tossed at 2am on Saturday - people did get sick, that triggered action from the NCAA (I truly get this). This is more pointing out why the hypocrisy so many of you think you see is simply not there.

1) Check the data - COVID hits 18-21 yo alpha males hardest. How many college athletes have to have asymptomatic COVID for you to understand this? Find me a population that has been hit harder.

2) Everyone keeps talking about this not being about "safety" and citing things like fans and stadium capacity. Again, and don't know who needs to hear this because it's obvious. You literally cannot catch COVID in the stands of the stadium. Immune zone. The field on the other hand...

3) Many of you have pointed out that it would be impossible for Vandy to get COVID on the field due to the 6 ft / 15 min window. Yes, while technically true, it would be best to realize that Friday games historically show this to be true, however games played on Saturday do not. Friday = safe; Saturday = swimming with great whites in the ring of death. Lots of data here.

4) It can take up to a week (or more) to show a positive test. Doesn't that mean there is no certainty that a negative test today indicates one doesn't have COVID? Honestly, if you don't understand why this argument is silly I've got some real estate to sell you (Btw - I only have property in COVID immune zones).

Thanks for your time, hope this helps!

James Henderson said:

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Packforlife said:

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James Henderson said:

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Wolfpacklife said:

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I appreciate him compiling everything.

What pisses me off is the NCAA just "knew we couldn't finish" and then called it at 1am. Could they not have waited until the next afternoon at the latest. Maybe sit down with people and discuss potential opportunities.

It just seems like they took the easy route and moved on.

---

I think once you reach 8 positives and contact tracing it become a question of if State can even field a team.

---

I think the key to the entire article is it is worded the nc state traveling party. How many players positive is the question.

---

I read 8 in that article.

---

I read 6 confirmed. Justice, Jarrett, and 4 vaccinated players. Other 2 it said....members of the traveling party. So, theoretically we could have played Saturday with all players held out of Fridays game and the 9 that were negative from Friday's game. A better lineup I'd bet

If it was about safety, and apparently vaccinated players can test positive, every player should be tested regardless of their status. You shouldn't assume anyone ls healthy in that scenario, they want a guise of protecting the players, but true protection would be beyond what's being done.

Not the case, but if everyone was vaccinated there'd be no testing, and theoretically you could have 100% of those kids test positive if they were actually tested, but they wouldn't care because they're presumed to be safe.

That's my issue. The vaccination status matters or it doesn't, it isnt 50/50. Once we have vaccinated players test positive and you don't extend testing everywhere from that point you're doing a disservice to caring about health. If they had let our vaccinated players play again on Sarurday regardless of their test outcome then it would be a different story to me.

James Henderson said:

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sf59 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

PackHawk0619 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

KKandDD said:

---

I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

---

Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

---

How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

---

One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

---

They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

---

I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.

maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.

You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.

---

Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.

I can't make my fingers type it any more.

---

But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.

We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.

They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.

---

You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?

NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."

Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)

All could have been avoided had everyone just taken the damn vaccine! And I'm not just directing this at our team, I mean everyone who is eligible and their medical condition allows it. We have slowed the spread considerably, but if EVERYONE got the vaccine, we could have stopped the spread of the virus almost completely!

James Henderson said:

---

sf59 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

sf59 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

PackHawk0619 said:

---

James Henderson said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

KKandDD said:

---

I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

---

Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

---

How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

---

One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

---

They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

---

I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.

maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.

You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.

---

Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.

I can't make my fingers type it any more.

---

But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.

We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.

They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.

---

You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?

NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."

Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)

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Yep, I think we all expected players to still continue to be tested.

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Part of my frustration is that we can change guidelines for fans, but not players. This pandemic thing is not the same in June 2021 as it was in January 2021. Between those two points, nearly 50% of the nation has received a vaccine. The NCAA proved (and has even celebrated) that it's adaptable with attendance.

Why not do the same with the competitors?

Wolfpack said:

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There's a difference between being contact traced out and having covid. There is one player/possibly two with covid. They controlled their own actions and understood the risks. It happens and it's fine.

The rest of it is related to contact tracing and about having back to back tests to play. This is bureaucracy at play, people. The world has evolved. It evolves every day. These people take freaking weeks and months to make changes.

Don't blame COVID, don't blame the vaccine, blame the dumbasses who maintain these protocols in a world that has clearly passed them.

And for Christ's sake, be objective. Don't come here with the COVID is just a cold for kids talk. It's not relevant. Don't come here arguing about vaccine policy and personal body rights. It's not relevant.

America is about freedom, our government officials (in this case the NCAA) clearly moves at the speed of a freaking snail while the world evolves around them and you end up with stupid **** like this.

Rant over. End of story. And close this damn thread.

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I'm still sticking with my statement from 7:28 PM this past Friday. I really have nothing else to say on this topic. I'm drained.

Wolfmac said:

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I call BS on the positive tests of the vaccinated players. So far, by statistics, your chances of getting Covid after taking the vaccine are .00065%. 10K cases in 153 million vaccinated people. You telling me 4 State players are in this group?! BS

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Not sure where you got your numbers from Wolfmac but I have family in NYC and they see it quite often there. If I hadn't been used to hearing about it I would have called BS too but I think it is happening more often than we see reported.

Someone also posted somewhere (hate propagating rumors but we're already in this deep...) that the J&J was susceptible to one strain of COVID and that was the one our team got. I have absolutely no idea if that is fact or fantasy. It would certainly help to explain the higher level of positives than you would expect. Or maybe they are false positives. Not sure we know at this point.

James Henderson said:

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bsorry11 said:

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James Henderson said:

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sf59 said:

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James Henderson said:

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sf59 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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PackHawk0619 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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KKandDD said:

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I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

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The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

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They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

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If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

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Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

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How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

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One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

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They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

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I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.

maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.

You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.

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Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.

I can't make my fingers type it any more.

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But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.

We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.

They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.

---

You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?

NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."

Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)

---

Yep, I think we all expected players to still continue to be tested.

---

Part of my frustration is that we can change guidelines for fans, but not players. This pandemic thing is not the same in June 2021 as it was in January 2021. Between those two points, nearly 50% of the nation has received a vaccine. The NCAA proved (and has even celebrated) that it's adaptable with attendance.

Why not do the same with the competitors?

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I'm with you.

I think the relaxed part was probably not testing vaccinated players unless deemed necessary?

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Yeah, that's a change, I guess.

But it was a half-baked change that they didn't think through. Testing asymptomatic vaccinated players should have been off the table. There's plenty of literature that shows a test isn't as simple or black/white as positive/negative.

At some point we have to acknowledge that a vaccinated person is a vaccinated person and isn't a risk. The data and evidence shows it.

There are so many issues to this one.

First, James, you're right. The rules were published and available and everyone knew them. And State could probably have been smarter about how they handled things with the unvaccinated guys. And certainly, if they'd had everyone vaccinated, they wouldn't have had to test and everything would be OK. But that doesn't mean none would be sick, it just means nobody would have known so they'd still be allowed to play.

But, that's the first major problem people have with the entire thing. Nobody involved seems to actually care about player safety. The NCAA rep actually stated in the timeline article on D1 that there have still been no confirmed cases of transmission during athletic competition. So if the NCAA believes that, who's at risk by letting kids play? Why are they testing? It's not just hypocritical regarding the fan attendance, but if kids can't get sick by playing against each other, who are we protecting by testing them?

Second, people are upset because the rules I saw published by D1 seem to be vague at best. There wasn't a hard policy of "if x number of your traveling party test positive in Y period of time, your team will be deemed in a high outbreak situation and will be removed from the competition". If that policy exists, it hasn't been shown anywhere and certainly if it existed, the NCAA could have easily referred to it and much of the anger would have been addressed. The frustration is what it is, because like most things with the NCAA it feels arbitrary.

There was no policy that said hey, if you have a couple of positive tests we reserve the right to hold out your non-vaccinated players until they get another negative test. Oh, and by the way, we can't get that accomplished in time for your game today, so you can either forfeit or play with only your vaccinated guys.

Then, to make things worse and harder to accept, when they test everyone again after the game, only guys that have been vaccinated test positive! And they were all in different rooms and none of their roommates tested positive! So it appears to the masses that means they're not contagious, and there seems to be quite a bit of common knowledge that vaccinated people can test positive without being contagious. If they're not contagious, who cares if they play?

And, there was little to no communication by the NCAA it sounds like to NC State. It FEELS like there was little if any effort on their part to at least try to figure out a way to keep NC State in the competition. They didn't invest time or effort into identifying who would actually be held out for contact tracing and who wouldn't from what we've heard, they just decided to pull the plug. Again, the arbitrary nature of the process combined with a lack of communication or accountability makes it even more difficult to accept. Plus, if they can be that arbitrary with the rules, why can't they be arbitrary with them in our favor?

Combine all that with the 2am announcement and no press conference, the complete lack of ability to read the room on social media and bragging about attendance and congratulating Vandy, the history of animosity between the NCAA and NC State to begin, the county official contradicting the statement by the NCAA about the decision making process and Giglio implying Corbin made some requests/decisions that he shouldn't be proud of and it's just fuel on the fire.

Oh, and by the way, several if not most of the guys that weren't vaccinated have had Covid already, so one of the reasons they haven't rushed to get vaccinated is because they were operating under the assumption they wouldn't get it again. Right or wrong, that's where they were. And nobody who tested positive this time around, has had it before.

So, in the end, yes, there were rules in place and State could probably have done more to prevent this from happening, but as usual, the NCAA enforced those rules in a manner that feels arbitrary and unfair.

America's Team. pic.twitter.com/LfZXHTTHaN

— #Pack9 ⚾️ (@NCStateBaseball) June 28, 2021

3GP nailed it! This feels like the right perspective and I don't understand the insistence by others on supporting positions promoted by the ncaa. Apparently, reading the room is a lost art.

MayorStoner said:

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this feels 9/11-ish.

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no it doesn't

I was told that some of the players (perhaps even the parents) were on twitter saying they tested negative. It makes it sound as if these were players in some type of protocol.

Can anybody confirm this?

My gripe is that the NCAA (as it does so well) is talking out of both sides of its mouth.

If a vaccine is a sort of a golden ticket... How can they care for the safety of players by sending them lowest vaccinated states and areas of the country prior to Omaha? This puts them more at risk. We were sent to Louisiana and Arkansas who are respectively 47th and 49th for % of eligible people to be fully vaccinated. You sent 7 teams to 2 Mississippi schools who is last. You sent 8 teams to two Tennessee schools which is 46th. You made the site choices six weeks before the games. The situation is fluid, but your sites choices were not.

Pittsburgh was on the list. Pennsylvania is 19th. Wouldn't it be "safer"/stand to reason we are less likely to get it from a bus driver, hotel staff, whoever...... in Pennsylvania than Arkansas? It is by their standards (communicated through testing practices).

It is clear these "Covid Protocols" were about ticket sales and earned competitive advantages. Covid clearly was not as big of a concern as stadium size. Virginia is 16th and South Carolina is 40th. But Old Dominion has a little field.....

If you deem vaccines as safer, why not put everyone in a "safer" environment?

Also with player safety, why are players sharing rooms? Oh wait, that negatively impacts the bottom line as well.

There is blame and bad luck to pass around to all involved. But please stop with the NCAA safety first attitude.

Pakbackr said:

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All could have been avoided had everyone just taken the damn vaccine! And I'm not just directing this at our team, I mean everyone who is eligible and their medical condition allows it. We have slowed the spread considerably, but if EVERYONE got the vaccine, we could have stopped the spread of the virus almost completely!

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EXCEPT for the players/people who have taken the vaccine and still tested positive for the virus...

As I posted earlier, we know people that are fully vaccinated are being diagnosed with COVID, just like our 4-6 (whatever the number is) players. No one (at least that I'm aware of) knows the source of the virus. Maybe in State's case it is a strain of the virus that J&J just isn't as effective against as has been rumored. Who knows? But vaccinated people are getting the virus. We've been told this from the beginning by the CDC.

I'm not targeting you specifically Pakbakr (so apologies if it feels that way), but the one thing this whole saga has really exposed, is that we (fans, media, general public - myself included) are all too damned busy judging, talking, and tweeting to hear ANYTHING we're not already thinking.

James Henderson said:

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sf59 said:

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James Henderson said:

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sf59 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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PackHawk0619 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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KKandDD said:

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I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?

---

Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.

But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.

To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.

But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.

---

How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?

That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.

Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.

Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.

---

One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.

I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?

Read what I posted above from Keatts.

---

They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.

---

I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.

maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.

You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.

---

Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.

I can't make my fingers type it any more.

---

But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.

We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.

They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.

---

You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?

NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."

Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)

---

Yep, I think we all expected players to still continue to be tested to some degree or another.

---

that's not what i asked, but this has become fruitless.

for a guy without an angle, you sure do have an angle.

James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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James Henderson said:

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Bas2020 said:

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KKandDD said:

---

I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.

At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?

---

The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.

You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.

Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.

Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.

---

They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.

---

Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?

The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.

You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.

Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.

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Bro, I have no clue what Clemson did. I don't get why we are fixated on that situation.

I don't understand how we can think the NCAA is just going to let unvaccinated players take the field after having 4 positives tests within a team. Take "NC State" out of the situation, just think of any regular team. Let's not be fans about it.

You really think the NCAA is going to let a team have 4 positive tests over a 2-3 day period and just say "hey, your other players are just fine, let's play ball!"

Health officials won't work that way. They understand there are lags in testing that 1 or even 2 negative tests won't clear up.

---

According to the health department officials themselves, that's exactly how they worked. They themselves have stated they did not recommend the disqualification of NC State.




Douglas County Health Department spokesman Phil Rooney said the health department did not recommend NC State's removal but told the NCAA the department would support whatever decision the NCAA made.

Rooney said the health department provides assistance to the NCAA in testing and contact tracing but is limited in mandating procedures related to COVID-19 because there is no local directed health measure in effect.