Stalin's Russia had rules too.
D1 Baseball Timeline of Events
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Last: 4 yr ago by jadawson
I don't think it's fair to blame the kids or the program for a positive test result. The entire city of Omaha was wide open and the virus could've been spread any number of ways in any place. Kids have to leave the hotel room at some point regardless. I doubt we were being super careful, but there's no way of knowing for sure how it was spread. That part is just bad luck IMO.James Henderson said:kmb717 said:James Henderson said:packgrad said:
I wish we could turn off James green color when he posts about baseball because he clearly knows **** about the situation. I'm glad he can post his anecdotes and irrelevant outdated studies but it is tiresome and quite irksome to see his continuous support of the NCAA decision to **** State as an NC State website owner.
Just because I run a State website doesn't mean I have to believe State got screwed here. Trust me, I'll admit it for sure when it happens, ask the folks who get mad when I bring up officiating after losses.
In this situation though, I talk to people too, was familiar with the Ncaa's guidelines ahead of time, and we always don't have to agree.
It's okay to acknowledge at times when you have blame, and State does here for various issues. I'll either write up what I've heard or post it in a pod later.
But if tou want to be mad at the ncaa for enforcing the rules laid out to everyone ahead of time, go right ahead.
James do you think they should have been doing any regular testing to begin with? The entire country is wide open. The only people I still see getting tested are athletes, college and professional. These so called "Health & Safety" protocols are keeping who safe exactly? As the NCAA brags about attendance. What are we even doing here?
Honestly it doesn't matter if we think they should be doing testing or not, I'm not a doc so hard for me to say.
All I know is the NCAA gave everyone the same testing guidelines prior to the tourney. If you chose to participate With unvaxed players, you knew ahead of time those players would be tested, whether they were sick or not.
It's on you as a program to try and make sure those players readily tested remain negative so your status as a team isn't in jeopardy.
The inconsistent protocols didn't make any sense to me. There was zero flexibility shown by Vandy or the NCAA either. It isn't like the park in Omaha is used for almost anything else. A delay would've been fine. This wasn't a random regular season game. The entire process was a joke.
Would love to see a poster-led opinion piece. 3GP's post is perfect.
Saying State should have handled it better is like saying you should have been more careful before a car accident. It's not like they knew where it was and, by the way, it was a once in a lifetime type experience for some college kids. They could have gotten it anywhere: plane, bus, what have you, but damn they should have locked themselves in a hotel room when they got to Omaha. They probably should have traveled there individually on motorcycles to really be responsible.
Look, we all know the NCAA has a myriad of rules that range from questionable, to hypocritical, to down right ridiculous. They have stupid rules about everything from how much food an athlete can consume, what time they can consume it, who gives them a ride home from practice, and whether they can visit a coaches home as part of a visit based on how close the house is to the school. We've all seen the rules applied unfairly and arbitrarily. The testing policy seems to be just another in a long line of questionable NCAA rulings and procedures. The testing policy, how it is conducted, and the benefits of it are flawed at best and hypocritical at worst. As a fan of college sports, I'm used to the this. The NCAA is clown shoes.
It's the job of our athletic program, AD, coaches and staff to navigate these nonsensical rules and put NC State in the best position to win. We knew unvaxed players would be tested. I'd like to hear, from our AD/Coach/Staff, what procedures were in place to keep our unvaxed players covid free and eligible. We knew the rules and knew we had a large contingent of unvaccinated players and other team personnel in Omaha. What policies were implemented to limit these unvaxed players contact with the general public? Were those policies followed? Did we, as a program, do everything we could to avoid positive tests by limiting high risk behavior?
It's the job of our athletic program, AD, coaches and staff to navigate these nonsensical rules and put NC State in the best position to win. We knew unvaxed players would be tested. I'd like to hear, from our AD/Coach/Staff, what procedures were in place to keep our unvaxed players covid free and eligible. We knew the rules and knew we had a large contingent of unvaccinated players and other team personnel in Omaha. What policies were implemented to limit these unvaxed players contact with the general public? Were those policies followed? Did we, as a program, do everything we could to avoid positive tests by limiting high risk behavior?
Gonna break this down into FOR... please feel free to add/edit so we build a full narrative here.
Fact: NC State had 8 positives: 2 unvaxed players, 4 vaxed players, 2 support personnel
Fact: Vaccinated people can have "false" positives especially with a standard PCR test
Fact: Rules including COVID testing were provided to all teams in advance of CWS
Fact: NCAA sent DQ statement during 2AM timeframe
Fact: County health department did not recommend removal of State from CWS
Fact: NCAA and Omaha allowed 20K+ fans to attend with no requirement of masks or proof of vaccination
Fact: NCAA did not require teams to be in a "bubble" as has been done with previous tournaments
Opinion: NCAA acted poorly by issuing a DQ release in the middle of the night. Waiting until late morning or early afternoon on Saturday and holding an actual press conference to allow questions for clarification would have been far better, even if the outcome still sucked for the Pack.
Opinion: This is one of the biggest NCAA tournaments, akin to the Final Four or CFP. It's hard to fathom that the NCAA would have simply disqualified a team in the Final Four without attempting to reschedule or otherwise adapt to the situation. The abruptness of the DQ with no pause to retest or evaluate other options just seems incredibly harsh. And their subsequent posts bragging on attendance of fans and about a "return to normalcy" with an all SEC final come across like a slap in the face of WPN.
Opinion: Corrigan says we fought as hard as possible but were left with no choice. Perhaps so but his handling of the situation behind the scenes vs his visibility to WPN demonstrates a real lack of understanding of the fanbase. We expect an ALPHA WOLF to lead us, not a dog licking the boots of his master. Boo must understand this or he will completely lose the support of the fans.
Opinion: Regardless of whether Miss St wins the CWS or not, the empathy and support their fans have shown to the Pack has been awesome and should make the football game an amazingly fun experience for all!
Rumor: Tim Corbin pushed for the additional testing in hopes of getting the DQ. Giglio alluded to actions by Corbin but there's no concrete evidence offered yet to support this rumor. Corbin did make a remarkably tone-deaf statement regarding "positive outcomes" regarding the automatic advancement of Vanderbilt.
Fact: NC State had 8 positives: 2 unvaxed players, 4 vaxed players, 2 support personnel
Fact: Vaccinated people can have "false" positives especially with a standard PCR test
Fact: Rules including COVID testing were provided to all teams in advance of CWS
Fact: NCAA sent DQ statement during 2AM timeframe
Fact: County health department did not recommend removal of State from CWS
Fact: NCAA and Omaha allowed 20K+ fans to attend with no requirement of masks or proof of vaccination
Fact: NCAA did not require teams to be in a "bubble" as has been done with previous tournaments
Opinion: NCAA acted poorly by issuing a DQ release in the middle of the night. Waiting until late morning or early afternoon on Saturday and holding an actual press conference to allow questions for clarification would have been far better, even if the outcome still sucked for the Pack.
Opinion: This is one of the biggest NCAA tournaments, akin to the Final Four or CFP. It's hard to fathom that the NCAA would have simply disqualified a team in the Final Four without attempting to reschedule or otherwise adapt to the situation. The abruptness of the DQ with no pause to retest or evaluate other options just seems incredibly harsh. And their subsequent posts bragging on attendance of fans and about a "return to normalcy" with an all SEC final come across like a slap in the face of WPN.
Opinion: Corrigan says we fought as hard as possible but were left with no choice. Perhaps so but his handling of the situation behind the scenes vs his visibility to WPN demonstrates a real lack of understanding of the fanbase. We expect an ALPHA WOLF to lead us, not a dog licking the boots of his master. Boo must understand this or he will completely lose the support of the fans.
Opinion: Regardless of whether Miss St wins the CWS or not, the empathy and support their fans have shown to the Pack has been awesome and should make the football game an amazingly fun experience for all!
Rumor: Tim Corbin pushed for the additional testing in hopes of getting the DQ. Giglio alluded to actions by Corbin but there's no concrete evidence offered yet to support this rumor. Corbin did make a remarkably tone-deaf statement regarding "positive outcomes" regarding the automatic advancement of Vanderbilt.
"High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation." ~ Charles Kettering
You can mitigate your chances of having a car accident by wearing your seatbelt, having airbags, and not engaging in risky driving behavior like speeding. Maybe we mitigated the chances our players would be exposed by eating in our hotel rooms, not mingling with the families or fans, avoid small and poorly ventilated public spaces, etc?CloudPack said:
Saying State should have handled it better is like saying you should have been more careful before a car accident. It's not like they knew where it was and, by the way, it was a once in a lifetime type experience for some college kids. They could have gotten it anywhere: plane, bus, what have you, but damn they should have locked themselves in a hotel room when they got to Omaha. They probably should have traveled there individually on motorcycles to really be responsible.
I can get the position that it is a once in a lifetime experience and you want kids to experience it in all of its glory. But the fact is covid is still out there and if you want the "lifetime experience" to include actually getting to play in the games there are precautions that can be taken to reduce the chance of exposure. Did we do that?
johntom said:I don't think it's fair to blame the kids or the program for a positive test result. The entire city of Omaha was wide open and the virus could've been spread any number of ways in any place. Kids have to leave the hotel room at some point regardless. I doubt we were being super careful, but there's no way of knowing for sure how it was spread. That part is just bad luck IMO.James Henderson said:kmb717 said:James Henderson said:packgrad said:
I wish we could turn off James green color when he posts about baseball because he clearly knows **** about the situation. I'm glad he can post his anecdotes and irrelevant outdated studies but it is tiresome and quite irksome to see his continuous support of the NCAA decision to **** State as an NC State website owner.
Just because I run a State website doesn't mean I have to believe State got screwed here. Trust me, I'll admit it for sure when it happens, ask the folks who get mad when I bring up officiating after losses.
In this situation though, I talk to people too, was familiar with the Ncaa's guidelines ahead of time, and we always don't have to agree.
It's okay to acknowledge at times when you have blame, and State does here for various issues. I'll either write up what I've heard or post it in a pod later.
But if tou want to be mad at the ncaa for enforcing the rules laid out to everyone ahead of time, go right ahead.
James do you think they should have been doing any regular testing to begin with? The entire country is wide open. The only people I still see getting tested are athletes, college and professional. These so called "Health & Safety" protocols are keeping who safe exactly? As the NCAA brags about attendance. What are we even doing here?
Honestly it doesn't matter if we think they should be doing testing or not, I'm not a doc so hard for me to say.
All I know is the NCAA gave everyone the same testing guidelines prior to the tourney. If you chose to participate With unvaxed players, you knew ahead of time those players would be tested, whether they were sick or not.
It's on you as a program to try and make sure those players readily tested remain negative so your status as a team isn't in jeopardy.
The inconsistent protocols didn't make any sense to me. There was zero flexibility shown by Vandy or the NCAA either. It isn't like the park in Omaha is used for almost anything else. A delay would've been fine. This wasn't a random regular season game. The entire process was a joke.
If I felt Nc state did as much as they could do I wouldn't be placing blame on Nc state at all.
pineknollshoresking said:
I was told that some of the players (perhaps even the parents) were on twitter saying they tested negative. It makes it sound as if these were players in some type of protocol.
Can anybody confirm this?
Yes unvaxxed players were being tested ever since they arrived in Omaha.
Given how positives and symptoms can lag, it's possible Jarrett actually contracted it while in Raleigh before Omaha.
MaxPack said:EXCEPT for the players/people who have taken the vaccine and still tested positive for the virus...Pakbackr said:
All could have been avoided had everyone just taken the damn vaccine! And I'm not just directing this at our team, I mean everyone who is eligible and their medical condition allows it. We have slowed the spread considerably, but if EVERYONE got the vaccine, we could have stopped the spread of the virus almost completely!
As I posted earlier, we know people that are fully vaccinated are being diagnosed with COVID, just like our 4-6 (whatever the number is) players. No one (at least that I'm aware of) knows the source of the virus. Maybe in State's case it is a strain of the virus that J&J just isn't as effective against as has been rumored. Who knows? But vaccinated people are getting the virus. We've been told this from the beginning by the CDC.
I'm not targeting you specifically Pakbakr (so apologies if it feels that way), but the one thing this whole saga has really exposed, is that we (fans, media, general public - myself included) are all too damned busy judging, talking, and tweeting to hear ANYTHING we're not already thinking.
Those players weren't being tested pre-outbreak from unvaxxed players though. So what I assume pakbakr is inferring is if everyone was vaxed no one would be getting tested.
sf59 said:that's not what i asked, but this has become fruitless.James Henderson said:Yep, I think we all expected players to still continue to be tested to some degree or another.sf59 said:You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?James Henderson said:But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.sf59 said:Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.James Henderson said:I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.PackHawk0619 said:If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.
To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.
But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.
How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?
That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.
Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.
Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.
I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?
Read what I posted above from Keatts.
They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.
maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.
You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.
I can't make my fingers type it any more.
We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.
They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.
NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."
Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)
for a guy without an angle, you sure do have an angle.
Tou always have a choice.
Didn't Duke women in hoops choose to no longer play Bc of safety reasons?
I'd assume If you are generally concerned with the ncaas rules you can choose to not participate in their tourney.
I just don't understand why we all are mad about the rules that were issued over a month ago, now. None of us seemed to care about the testing policies previously.
BigLefty24 said:James Henderson said:Bro, I have no clue what Clemson did. I don't get why we are fixated on that situation.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?
The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.
You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.
Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.
I don't understand how we can think the NCAA is just going to let unvaccinated players take the field after having 4 positives tests within a team. Take "NC State" out of the situation, just think of any regular team. Let's not be fans about it.
You really think the NCAA is going to let a team have 4 positive tests over a 2-3 day period and just say "hey, your other players are just fine, let's play ball!"
Health officials won't work that way. They understand there are lags in testing that 1 or even 2 negative tests won't clear up.
According to the health department officials themselves, that's exactly how they worked. They themselves have stated they did not recommend the disqualification of NC State.
Douglas County Health Department spokesman Phil Rooney said the health department did not recommend NC State's removal but told the NCAA the department would support whatever decision the NCAA made.
Rooney said the health department provides assistance to the NCAA in testing and contact tracing but is limited in mandating procedures related to COVID-19 because there is no local directed health measure in effect.
I'm not sure where I said the Douglas HD recommended Nc state be removed.
I do think they could recommend more testing, which woudl then lead to the others involved decide that there isn't time for that given the tourney setup. In that scenario the Douglas hd wouldn't be recommending n. State be removed.
Couldn't that be the case?
Pocketflask said:You can mitigate your chances of having a car accident by wearing your seatbelt, having airbags, and not engaging in risky driving behavior like speeding. Maybe we mitigated the chances our players would be exposed by eating in our hotel rooms, not mingling with the families or fans, avoid small and poorly ventilated public spaces, etc?CloudPack said:
Saying State should have handled it better is like saying you should have been more careful before a car accident. It's not like they knew where it was and, by the way, it was a once in a lifetime type experience for some college kids. They could have gotten it anywhere: plane, bus, what have you, but damn they should have locked themselves in a hotel room when they got to Omaha. They probably should have traveled there individually on motorcycles to really be responsible.
I can get the position that it is a once in a lifetime experience and you want kids to experience it in all of its glory. But the fact is covid is still out there and if you want the "lifetime experience" to include actually getting to play in the games there are precautions that can be taken to reduce the chance of exposure. Did we do that?
To me, that's moot as soon as you say you need to pack yourself into a fuselage for however many hours and be around a full population of ppl for games and festivities to participate. The games are outside so I guess the actual act of playing isn't likely to spread it, but I can't imagine you can just not be around ppl for the entire time, given how many people were there. Folks that attended can comment otherwise. The bottom line is there was so much traffic around the players that was unavoidable that it just makes no sense to blame them for bad luck of someone getting it, even if they did attend some non-required stuff.
Pocketflask said:
Look, we all know the NCAA has a myriad of rules that range from questionable, to hypocritical, to down right ridiculous. They have stupid rules about everything from how much food an athlete can consume, what time they can consume it, who gives them a ride home from practice, and whether they can visit a coaches home as part of a visit based on how close the house is to the school. We've all seen the rules applied unfairly and arbitrarily. The testing policy seems to be just another in a long line of questionable NCAA rulings and procedures. The testing policy, how it is conducted, and the benefits of it are flawed at best and hypocritical at worst. As a fan of college sports, I'm used to the this. The NCAA is clown shoes.
It's the job of our athletic program, AD, coaches and staff to navigate these nonsensical rules and put NC State in the best position to win. We knew unvaxed players would be tested. I'd like to hear, from our AD/Coach/Staff, what procedures were in place to keep our unvaxed players covid free and eligible. We knew the rules and knew we had a large contingent of unvaccinated players and other team personnel in Omaha. What policies were implemented to limit these unvaxed players contact with the general public? Were those policies followed? Did we, as a program, do everything we could to avoid positive tests by limiting high risk behavior?
You just summed up my feelings probably a hell of a lot better than I ever could have.
Stupid rules are still rules. Did State put itself in the best possible position here? You probably get a sense for my feelings on that.
In fairness, I doubt 99.99% of fans even really thought about Covid testing going on at the NCAAs, either leading up to, or during, CWS.James Henderson said:sf59 said:that's not what i asked, but this has become fruitless.James Henderson said:Yep, I think we all expected players to still continue to be tested to some degree or another.sf59 said:You think there was a choice to accept the flawed protocols?James Henderson said:But according to their literature they told us they would/could test vacinnated players.sf59 said:Then you need to read the literature, vaccine trial info, and CDC recommendations that Davie and others have posted regarding the logic flaw in testing vaccinated players.James Henderson said:I don't know what they did or didn't do. ALl I know is I can't find a case of a team/travel party having 8 positives over a 2-3 day period and just continuing to play without a pause/massive testing to figure everything out.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.PackHawk0619 said:If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.
To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.
But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.
How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?
That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.
Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.
Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.
I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?
Read what I posted above from Keatts.
They didnt take time to research the contact tracing. They could have consulted with State to see who fell under the contact tracing. They didnt do that. They assumed the whole damn team was within 6' of player X for 15+ minutes.
maybe it's happened in a sport, but I can't find that case.
You can choose to blame the NCAA for NC State having eight positives if you'd like. I'm not sure how that is their fault.
I can't make my fingers type it any more.
We can argue if they should or shouldn't all we want, but they told us they could/would if necessary. We knew that going in so if they told us they would/could, I can't blame them for actually doing it.
They told us that over a month ago, not just Friday.
NCAA: "Here are our outdated-anti-science protocols. OBEY and COMPLY or you are not invited."
Now, we are back full circle to my overarching point regarding this incident and the NCAA. (Please see signature)
for a guy without an angle, you sure do have an angle.
Tou always have a choice.
Didn't Duke women in hoops choose to no longer play Bc of safety reasons?
I'd assume If you are generally concerned with the ncaas rules you can choose to not participate in their tourney.
I just don't understand why we all are mad about the rules that were issued over a month ago, now. None of us seemed to care about the testing policies previously.
Covid, for many folks, is dying down....almost all of us have returned to normal lives, we wear masks nowhere, and while not an afterthought, it is not a forethought either.
And I'm not sure I heard any news reports about any players being removed for any games up until we had a 6? (Not that there is widespread coverage of other teams during this period.
ETA: Seeing the behavior in the regionals, superregionals and CWS with fans, unmasked, and players clearly interacting with families and fans.....any normal fan at home really got easily forgetful about Covid.
Adam Hole on 99.9 taking NCAA's side.
CALS Alumni
You know what, nevermind. If there is information that blames NC State, that other teams didn't do also, then print it. I'm signing off for a while.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
The Gatekeeper.
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The championship protocols state:
If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing MAY need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance.
This is where I think the NCAA's medical committee made an unfair and flawed decision to test our vaccinated players based on these facts:
1. There appears to be no substantial or high transmission of COVID in the Omaha community.
2. There are currently NO variants (including the Delta variant) that have escaped the effect of the vaccine. The AP just published a short article about this last Thursday.
3. The NCAA Medical Advisory Board's own guidance for testing of vaccinated individuals states:
Further, fully vaccinated student-athletes and other Tier 1 individuals with no COVID-19-like symptoms do not need to quarantine, be restricted from work or get tested after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
4. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, vaccinated individuals can carry the virus in their nostrils and therefore render a positive COVID test. However, that DOES NOT make them infectious to another person.
5. Per the CDC's own published literature, recent studies and research indicates that "asymptomatic" spread is not a driver of COVID infections and disease. Neither is outdoor transmission. Even the NCAA's Holman, proudly bragged about the fact that NO outbreaks for COVID have occurred from outdoor sports. The NFL found the same to be true this past season.
6. Therefore, testing of our full team, including vaccinated players, should never have occurred. It was unnecessary. Incessant testing of asymptomatic and vaccinated individuals only produces more positive tests, but doesn't uncover actual infectious cases.
7. Furthermore, the entire Vanderbilt team was fully vaccinated and protected. Add that to the fact that outdoor transmission is virtually non-existent and the result is a safe environment to play. No one's safety was in jeopardy.
I agree with you, James, that our program made some mistakes and we agreed to the rules. However, I think the NCAA didn't HAVE to go down the road of testing our vaccinated players. They ignored their own guidance on testing and responded with panic, not logic. These problems are going to continue to exist if decisions are made based on fear, politics, etc. and not prevailing science - which is not media headlines, but actual data. At some point, this has to end.
If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing MAY need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance.
This is where I think the NCAA's medical committee made an unfair and flawed decision to test our vaccinated players based on these facts:
1. There appears to be no substantial or high transmission of COVID in the Omaha community.
2. There are currently NO variants (including the Delta variant) that have escaped the effect of the vaccine. The AP just published a short article about this last Thursday.
3. The NCAA Medical Advisory Board's own guidance for testing of vaccinated individuals states:
Further, fully vaccinated student-athletes and other Tier 1 individuals with no COVID-19-like symptoms do not need to quarantine, be restricted from work or get tested after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
4. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, vaccinated individuals can carry the virus in their nostrils and therefore render a positive COVID test. However, that DOES NOT make them infectious to another person.
5. Per the CDC's own published literature, recent studies and research indicates that "asymptomatic" spread is not a driver of COVID infections and disease. Neither is outdoor transmission. Even the NCAA's Holman, proudly bragged about the fact that NO outbreaks for COVID have occurred from outdoor sports. The NFL found the same to be true this past season.
6. Therefore, testing of our full team, including vaccinated players, should never have occurred. It was unnecessary. Incessant testing of asymptomatic and vaccinated individuals only produces more positive tests, but doesn't uncover actual infectious cases.
7. Furthermore, the entire Vanderbilt team was fully vaccinated and protected. Add that to the fact that outdoor transmission is virtually non-existent and the result is a safe environment to play. No one's safety was in jeopardy.
I agree with you, James, that our program made some mistakes and we agreed to the rules. However, I think the NCAA didn't HAVE to go down the road of testing our vaccinated players. They ignored their own guidance on testing and responded with panic, not logic. These problems are going to continue to exist if decisions are made based on fear, politics, etc. and not prevailing science - which is not media headlines, but actual data. At some point, this has to end.
Damn, with "fans" like some of ours, we sure don't need any enemies. We sure do like to eat our own.
It is possible to be a fan and still have questions about what happened and if we, as a program, did everything within our control to avoid having our unvaxxed players contract covid.Wolfvet said:
Damn, with "fans" like some of ours, we sure don't need any enemies. We sure do like to eat our own.
But in those rules they acknowledged testing vax players with an outbreak. We had 4 positves and potentially counting over a 2-3 day period.danihartman said:
The championship protocols state:
If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing MAY need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance.
This is where I think the NCAA's medical committee made an unfair and flawed decision to test our vaccinated players based on these facts:
1. There appears to be no substantial or high transmission of COVID in the Omaha community.
2. There are currently NO variants (including the Delta variant) that have escaped the effect of the vaccine. The AP just published a short article about this last Thursday.
3. The NCAA Medical Advisory Board's own guidance for testing of vaccinated individuals states:
Further, fully vaccinated student-athletes and other Tier 1 individuals with no COVID-19-like symptoms do not need to quarantine, be restricted from work or get tested after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
4. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, vaccinated individuals can carry the virus in their nostrils and therefore render a positive COVID test. However, that DOES NOT make them infectious to another person.
5. Per the CDC's own published literature, recent studies and research indicates that "asymptomatic" spread is not a driver of COVID infections and disease. Neither is outdoor transmission. Even the NCAA's Holman, proudly bragged about the fact that NO outbreaks for COVID have occurred from outdoor sports. The NFL found the same to be true this past season.
6. Therefore, testing of our full team, including vaccinated players, should never have occurred. It was unnecessary. Incessant testing of asymptomatic and vaccinated individuals only produces more positive tests, but doesn't uncover actual infectious cases.
7. Furthermore, the entire Vanderbilt team was fully vaccinated and protected. Add that to the fact that outdoor transmission is virtually non-existent and the result is a safe environment to play. No one's safety was in jeopardy.
I agree with you, James, that our program made some mistakes and we agreed to the rules. However, I think the NCAA didn't HAVE to go down the road of testing our vaccinated players. They ignored their own guidance on testing and responded with panic, not logic. These problems are going to continue to exist if decisions are made based on fear, politics, etc. and not prevailing science - which is not media headlines, but actual data. At some point, this has to end.
Sounds like some lawsuits coming by reading the twitter tea leaves ... not from the school but from the players and parents . Discrimination case.
If my son posted 7 straight negative tests and did not fall within exposure to be in contact tracing I would sue also. The NCAA placed players in contact tracing just because they are unvaxxed not because they were in close contact or exposed. Those weren't even the rules during football .
If my son posted 7 straight negative tests and did not fall within exposure to be in contact tracing I would sue also. The NCAA placed players in contact tracing just because they are unvaxxed not because they were in close contact or exposed. Those weren't even the rules during football .
Lol, you ever been on these boards after a basketball or football loss?Wolfvet said:
Damn, with "fans" like some of ours, we sure don't need any enemies. We sure do like to eat our own.
Some of us understand that our emotions as a fanbase and athletic program do not matter whatsoever, and are genuinely curious about how the baseball program and athletic department handled preparation for a NCAAT and CWS with non-vaccinated players where COVID-19 protocols were previously outlined by the NCAA.
Not really sure which thread this should go in.
There are still a lot more questions than answers. pic.twitter.com/JB5wwjGVMJ
— Austin Murr (@amurr13) June 28, 2021
Also this may clear up something as well, if true.
I was told it was contact tracing related.
— Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) June 28, 2021
According to Rogers' timeline, the 3rd and 4th positive cases were discovered 90 minutes prior to our game with Vanderbilt on Friday. We were allowed to play the game anyway with our vaccinated roster. AFTER the game, we underwent the full roster testing - which again was a decision made on the fly. Nowhere does it state in the rules that testing of vaccinated players was mandatory or required ("testing MAY need to resume"); it was a choice the NCAA made. And why was it ok to play on Friday with unvaccinated players, but not Saturday? If it was so urgent to deal with this "outbreak" this should have been addressed prior to our game on Friday. These are the aspects of this that seem unfair and arbitrary.James Henderson said:But in those rules they acknowledged testing vax players with an outbreak. We had 4 positves and potentially counting over a 2-3 day period.danihartman said:
The championship protocols state:
If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing MAY need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance.
This is where I think the NCAA's medical committee made an unfair and flawed decision to test our vaccinated players based on these facts:
1. There appears to be no substantial or high transmission of COVID in the Omaha community.
2. There are currently NO variants (including the Delta variant) that have escaped the effect of the vaccine. The AP just published a short article about this last Thursday.
3. The NCAA Medical Advisory Board's own guidance for testing of vaccinated individuals states:
Further, fully vaccinated student-athletes and other Tier 1 individuals with no COVID-19-like symptoms do not need to quarantine, be restricted from work or get tested after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
4. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, vaccinated individuals can carry the virus in their nostrils and therefore render a positive COVID test. However, that DOES NOT make them infectious to another person.
5. Per the CDC's own published literature, recent studies and research indicates that "asymptomatic" spread is not a driver of COVID infections and disease. Neither is outdoor transmission. Even the NCAA's Holman, proudly bragged about the fact that NO outbreaks for COVID have occurred from outdoor sports. The NFL found the same to be true this past season.
6. Therefore, testing of our full team, including vaccinated players, should never have occurred. It was unnecessary. Incessant testing of asymptomatic and vaccinated individuals only produces more positive tests, but doesn't uncover actual infectious cases.
7. Furthermore, the entire Vanderbilt team was fully vaccinated and protected. Add that to the fact that outdoor transmission is virtually non-existent and the result is a safe environment to play. No one's safety was in jeopardy.
I agree with you, James, that our program made some mistakes and we agreed to the rules. However, I think the NCAA didn't HAVE to go down the road of testing our vaccinated players. They ignored their own guidance on testing and responded with panic, not logic. These problems are going to continue to exist if decisions are made based on fear, politics, etc. and not prevailing science - which is not media headlines, but actual data. At some point, this has to end.
By the way, on the 11.7 podcast this morning (any real college baseball fans should listen to this when they can, these guys are great, at least follow them on twitter, they love the game and just want to grow it) they mentioned they were told that State had a positive test in Ruston, but was allowed to re-test the individual and that person tested negative the second time and was cleared to play. No idea who that was, I hadn't heard anything about that previously.
They also mentioned that in the past, the vaccinated players that tested positive would have been tested again to verify, but to their knowledge that didn't happen in this situation.
They also mentioned that in the past, the vaccinated players that tested positive would have been tested again to verify, but to their knowledge that didn't happen in this situation.
Wolfpacker009 said:
Not really sure which thread this should go in.There are still a lot more questions than answers. pic.twitter.com/JB5wwjGVMJ
— Austin Murr (@amurr13) June 28, 2021
Lawyer up right now!!
We contact traced a Vandy graduate on the NCAA Medical staff. Clearly this indicates collusion. The NCAA is guilty and must be disbanded. We've made our decision. It is final. Rebuttals will be ignored. 
I agree, it was a decision made between NCAA/Douglas Health/Tourney medical team to test everyone after State had 4 positives with all the other unvaxed players.danihartman said:According to Rogers' timeline, the 3rd and 4th positive cases were discovered 90 minutes prior to our game with Vanderbilt on Friday. We were allowed to play the game anyway with our vaccinated roster. AFTER the game, we underwent the full roster testing - which again was a decision made on the fly. Nowhere does it state in the rules that testing of vaccinated players was mandatory or required ("testing MAY need to resume"); it was a choice the NCAA made. And why was it ok to play on Friday with unvaccinated players, but not Saturday? If it was so urgent to deal with this "outbreak" this should have been addressed prior to our game on Friday. These are the aspects of this that seem unfair and arbitrary.James Henderson said:But in those rules they acknowledged testing vax players with an outbreak. We had 4 positves and potentially counting over a 2-3 day period.danihartman said:
The championship protocols state:
If there is evidence of substantial or high transmission in the community, or if there are COVID-19 variants that escape the effect of the vaccine, then testing MAY need to resume for fully vaccinated individuals. Such decisions will be made in conjunction with local public health authorities and/or federal guidance.
This is where I think the NCAA's medical committee made an unfair and flawed decision to test our vaccinated players based on these facts:
1. There appears to be no substantial or high transmission of COVID in the Omaha community.
2. There are currently NO variants (including the Delta variant) that have escaped the effect of the vaccine. The AP just published a short article about this last Thursday.
3. The NCAA Medical Advisory Board's own guidance for testing of vaccinated individuals states:
Further, fully vaccinated student-athletes and other Tier 1 individuals with no COVID-19-like symptoms do not need to quarantine, be restricted from work or get tested after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
4. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, vaccinated individuals can carry the virus in their nostrils and therefore render a positive COVID test. However, that DOES NOT make them infectious to another person.
5. Per the CDC's own published literature, recent studies and research indicates that "asymptomatic" spread is not a driver of COVID infections and disease. Neither is outdoor transmission. Even the NCAA's Holman, proudly bragged about the fact that NO outbreaks for COVID have occurred from outdoor sports. The NFL found the same to be true this past season.
6. Therefore, testing of our full team, including vaccinated players, should never have occurred. It was unnecessary. Incessant testing of asymptomatic and vaccinated individuals only produces more positive tests, but doesn't uncover actual infectious cases.
7. Furthermore, the entire Vanderbilt team was fully vaccinated and protected. Add that to the fact that outdoor transmission is virtually non-existent and the result is a safe environment to play. No one's safety was in jeopardy.
I agree with you, James, that our program made some mistakes and we agreed to the rules. However, I think the NCAA didn't HAVE to go down the road of testing our vaccinated players. They ignored their own guidance on testing and responded with panic, not logic. These problems are going to continue to exist if decisions are made based on fear, politics, etc. and not prevailing science - which is not media headlines, but actual data. At some point, this has to end.
You're right though, I'm surprised theyd idn't just cancel the game on Friday so they could test everyone and see if State can even come back Saturday. Pretty surprised they gave State that option.
I think all players are tested multiple times before being ruled out so if true I think all 8 positives were tested multiple times.3rdGenPacker said:
By the way, on the 11.7 podcast this morning (any real college baseball fans should listen to this when they can, these guys are great, at least follow them on twitter, they love the game and just want to grow it) they mentioned they were told that State had a positive test in Ruston, but was allowed to re-test the individual and that person tested negative the second time and was cleared to play. No idea who that was, I hadn't heard anything about that previously.
They also mentioned that in the past, the vaccinated players that tested positive would have been tested again to verify, but to their knowledge that didn't happen in this situation.
We sure he's not a Tennessee Vol baseball fan LOLPackFansXL said:
We contact traced a Vandy graduate on the NCAA Medical staff. Clearly this indicates collusion. The NCAA is guilty and must be disbanded. We've made our decision. It is final. Rebuttals will be ignored.
Anytime I see the word HIPAA used anymore, I get skeptical. I'm not even sure it exists anymore.King Leary said:Wolfpacker009 said:
Not really sure which thread this should go in.There are still a lot more questions than answers. pic.twitter.com/JB5wwjGVMJ
— Austin Murr (@amurr13) June 28, 2021
Lawyer up right now!!
According to the 11.7 guys, the 4 vaccinated players were not tested again after testing positive. The host said he'd been messaged by people close to the program but wouldn't say who. That's the only time I've heard that, but since the results that came back after the game arrived around 11pm, it makes sense they hadn't had time to test them again by 1am when the announcement was made.James Henderson said:I think all players are tested multiple times before being ruled out so if true I think all 8 positives were tested multiple times.3rdGenPacker said:
By the way, on the 11.7 podcast this morning (any real college baseball fans should listen to this when they can, these guys are great, at least follow them on twitter, they love the game and just want to grow it) they mentioned they were told that State had a positive test in Ruston, but was allowed to re-test the individual and that person tested negative the second time and was cleared to play. No idea who that was, I hadn't heard anything about that previously.
They also mentioned that in the past, the vaccinated players that tested positive would have been tested again to verify, but to their knowledge that didn't happen in this situation.
I've said it once and I'm gonna say it again, this is gonna make for one wild ass 30 for 30 style documentary in a couple years. It's gonna be wild, man. Robby McLamb needs to narrate it too.
*Wolfpack Baseball - 2021 *NCAA COLLEGE WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!
*Congrats to the 10 win 2021 Wolfpack football team!
*Congrats to the 10 win 2021 Wolfpack football team!
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