So the NCAA states that the county health department was consulted per the NCAA's guidelines for when an outbreak in the community happens and that was a basis for kicking State out. Then the county says we in no way recommended that. Somebody's lying here. I my bet is that it in not the county.
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I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
I don't know what Andrew did, but how can anyone think Avent was allowed to coach the Friday game and be unvaccinated?Bas2020 said:
So Andrew Schnitker is the media guy who took the Avent quote of of context in his tweet to make it seem like he hadn't been vaccinated ?
AMEN!!Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
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—Jack Handey
I disagree with none of what you said, but that's all beside the point. The protocols were in place in advance of the CWS, them making sense or not is a completely different conversation (and of course they don't make sense, when was the last time the NCAA did something that made sense?).Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
The one question I have from Kendall's article - the non-vaccinated, negative testing players - is that completely subjective for the NCAA to rule on the spot that they can't play? Or was that declared previously as part of the NCAA's COVID-19 protocols?
Yes, this is how it should have been done.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
I think once they found out there were 4 in State's traveling party who were positive, they wanted to test the non-vaxed players.KKandDD said:I disagree with none of what you said, but that's all beside the point. The protocols were in place in advance of the CWS, them making sense or not is a completely different conversation (and of course they don't make sense, when was the last time the NCAA did something that made sense?).Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
The one question I have from Kendall's article - the non-vaccinated, negative testing players - is that completely subjective for the NCAA to rule on the spot that they can't play? Or was that declared previously as part of the NCAA's COVID-19 protocols?
I'm not sure how many of them were going to be ruled out for a period of time due to contact tracing.
And you're right, we can argue the rules now all we want, but fact is those rules were handed out to teams prior to the NCAA Tournament. No one complained about it (that I know of) at the time.
They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously wasn't enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
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James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?
The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.
You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.
Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.
Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously wasn't enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
There are plenty of videos and photos of Vandy players hugging fans in the team hotel and out at the stadium...
Not to mention players for all 8 teams were invited to community events all over Omaha. Kids were going out on the town on their off days and the City who helps throw this event were encouraging it.
This was no bubble and the CWS didnt treat it like a bubble situation.
Once
I haven't seen anyone ask this question yet so here it goes. Why didn't the 4 people that tested positive (Vaccinated people at that) Friday night get retested before the NCAA pulled the plug. In the D1 Baseball article, it states the testing process is a two step process. Below is the excerpt from the article.
So, the procedure is as follows: A player/coach/travel party member will take an antigen test, which has a higher false positive/negative rate than a more conclusive PCR test. If that person tests positive on an antigen test, the NCAA sends that person to take a more confirmatory PCR test. If that PCR test is positive as well, they are not cleared, and the individual then enters what the NCAA dubs 'blue protocol'.
There should of been a second test conducted for the last 4 positive tests according to the NCAA protocol.
So, the procedure is as follows: A player/coach/travel party member will take an antigen test, which has a higher false positive/negative rate than a more conclusive PCR test. If that person tests positive on an antigen test, the NCAA sends that person to take a more confirmatory PCR test. If that PCR test is positive as well, they are not cleared, and the individual then enters what the NCAA dubs 'blue protocol'.
There should of been a second test conducted for the last 4 positive tests according to the NCAA protocol.
Definitely see the hypocrisy, but again, for an athletic program that's competing for a championship, it's an entirely different conversation. It's asinine to think that because there is a stadium full of non-masked fans, we're just going to show up and say "well I guess the NCAA COVID-19 protocols are out the window now!"wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously wasn't enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
I view it no different than an ump with a ****ty zone. If he's calling it low do you sit and ***** about it? Or do you adjust your pitching approach accordingly? Silly example but since we know we never end up on the good side of any NCAA rule or decision, I have to think you'd want to do your absolute best to NCAA-proof your team.
Again, I'm not arguing right or wrong of the rules, I'm just stating these are the rules in place. Do I think they should be done this way with fans in the stadium with no masks, no.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously wasn't enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
But the NCAA are treating the players/coaches/staff differently than fans, right or wrong. I don't even know what kind of control the nCAA can have over fans. I thought that was a state issue (some states allowed more fans than others throughout this deal).
KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
I've read somewhere (a post on here I think?) that the team was all set to get the J&J shot during the season. Half the team got it and before the other half was set to get it the news came out to halt the use of J&J vaccine. Don't really see how you can blame anyone if that's how this played out. Would certainly make any normal person with critical thinking skills second guess things. Especially when you are as young and healthy as these kids with a .0000001% chance for it to do anything serious to you.
Bro, I have no clue what Clemson did. I don't get why we are fixated on that situation.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?
The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.
You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.
Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.
I don't understand how we can think the NCAA is just going to let unvaccinated players take the field after having 4 positives tests within a team. Take "NC State" out of the situation, just think of any regular team. Let's not be fans about it.
You really think the NCAA is going to let a team have 4 positive tests over a 2-3 day period and just say "hey, your other players are just fine, let's play ball!"
Health officials won't work that way. They understand there are lags in testing that 1 or even 2 negative tests won't clear up.
Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.DrummerboyWolf said:Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
I thought the 4 were tested twice, that's why the results came in late that night.WolfpackJack69 said:
I haven't seen anyone ask this question yet so here it goes. Why didn't the 4 people that tested positive (Vaccinated people at that) Friday night get retested before the NCAA pulled the plug. In the D1 Baseball article, it states the testing process is a two step process. Below is the excerpt from the article.
So, the procedure is as follows: A player/coach/travel party member will take an antigen test, which has a higher false positive/negative rate than a more conclusive PCR test. If that person tests positive on an antigen test, the NCAA sends that person to take a more confirmatory PCR test. If that PCR test is positive as well, they are not cleared, and the individual then enters what the NCAA dubs 'blue protocol'.
There should of been a second test conducted for the last 4 positive tests according to the NCAA protocol.
Yeah if that's true that is tough.tau06 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
I've read somewhere (a post on here I think?) that the team was all set to get the J&J shot during the season. Half the team got it and before the other half was set to get it the news came out to halt the use of J&J vaccine. Don't really see how you can blame anyone if that's how this played out. Would certainly make any normal person with critical thinking skills second guess things. Especially when you are as young and healthy as these kids with a .0000001% chance for it to do anything serious to you.
The flip side of that is there are two other vaccine variants which other than flu-like symptoms for some people, have thus far shown no evidence of serious, negative side effects.
I am not knocking any player for not getting vaccinated. In their shoes, I likely would've done the same thing. I just hope that someone sat them down and explained how things would work in the NCAA tournament/CWS for non-vaccinated players. I hope they at least made an educated decision.
Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.PackHawk0619 said:If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.
To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.
But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.
James Henderson said:Bro, I have no clue what Clemson did. I don't get why we are fixated on that situation.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?
The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.
You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.
Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.
I don't understand how we can think the NCAA is just going to let unvaccinated players take the field after having 4 positives tests within a team. Take "NC State" out of the situation, just think of any regular team. Let's not be fans about it.
You really think the NCAA is going to let a team have 4 positive tests over a 2-3 day period and just say "hey, your other players are just fine, let's play ball!"
Health officials won't work that way. They understand there are lags in testing that 1 or even 2 negative tests won't clear up.
IF there are "lag times" in testing then Vandy should not be allowed to play cuz "contact tracing".
Which is the issue I have with Boo's comments.KKandDD said:Yeah if that's true that is tough.tau06 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
I've read somewhere (a post on here I think?) that the team was all set to get the J&J shot during the season. Half the team got it and before the other half was set to get it the news came out to halt the use of J&J vaccine. Don't really see how you can blame anyone if that's how this played out. Would certainly make any normal person with critical thinking skills second guess things. Especially when you are as young and healthy as these kids with a .0000001% chance for it to do anything serious to you.
The flip side of that is there are two other vaccine variants which other than flu-like symptoms for some people, have thus far shown no evidence of serious, negative side effects.
I am not knocking any player for not getting vaccinated. In their shoes, I likely would've done the same thing. I just hope that someone sat them down and explained how things would work in the NCAA tournament/CWS for non-vaccinated players. I hope they at least made an educated decision.
James Henderson said:Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.PackHawk0619 said:If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.
To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.
But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.
How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?
That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.
Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.
Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.
James Henderson said:Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.DrummerboyWolf said:Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.
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But stadiums have not been full capacity James.James Henderson said:Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.DrummerboyWolf said:Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
Why is Vandy subject to contact tracing? From what I found on contact tracing:Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:Bro, I have no clue what Clemson did. I don't get why we are fixated on that situation.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
Detail the contact tracing then. How was that determined... and why were no Clemson players contact traced last fall?
The "contact tracing" element of this is bogus. They dont have definitive facts that player X was within 6 feet of player Y for 15 mins or more.
You keep comparing this to basketball (and indoor sport) back in December or January when nobody was vaccinted instead of baseball an outdoor sport in damn near July when 70% are vaccinated.
Its late Jun, 21. Look around at your local grocery store, concert venue, beer garden, hockey play off game. Things are not the same as they were in basketball season...so stop treating the players like they are.
I don't understand how we can think the NCAA is just going to let unvaccinated players take the field after having 4 positives tests within a team. Take "NC State" out of the situation, just think of any regular team. Let's not be fans about it.
You really think the NCAA is going to let a team have 4 positive tests over a 2-3 day period and just say "hey, your other players are just fine, let's play ball!"
Health officials won't work that way. They understand there are lags in testing that 1 or even 2 negative tests won't clear up.
IF there are "lag times" in testing then Vandy should not be allowed to play cuz "contact tracing".
If close contact time with another individual who has tested positive for COVID-19 is less than 15 minutes over 24 hours, then quarantine may not be required.
I don't think a Vandy player was in direct contact with a State player for 15 minutes but I guess I could be wrong.
*****
This is from Keatts during the season and gives you an idea to the amount of testing needed and timing:
We're trying to get on the court. It's been a challenge. When we got back from Florida State on that Thursday, the next morning, we had a Tier-1 person who was positive call in and say he had some symptoms. Obviously we automatically got him tested and unfortunately that test came back as positive. Obviously we've been testing for the last three or four days in a row just to make sure that it wouldn't change, and unfortunately for us, a couple days after that we had one of our party also test positive.
We tested this morning, we're going to test tomorrow, we're going to test Wednesday. Hopefully we try to figure out. Right now, I have at least five people in our Tier-1 that are quarantined or a part of COVID-19. That's the toughest part for us, it's been a little frustrating. But who am I to get frustrated with what we have going on around the country. I pray for everybody that's going through some of this stuff.
***
So a couple days after the first positive, came another positive. Then there were
I call BS on the positive tests of the vaccinated players. So far, by statistics, your chances of getting Covid after taking the vaccine are .00065%. 10K cases in 153 million vaccinated people. You telling me 4 State players are in this group?! BS
I'm not taking any angle. I'm simply stating teams were given a sheet with rules prior to the tournament. They sent that same set of testing rules to media members. We had access to them.wilmwolf80 said:James Henderson said:Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.DrummerboyWolf said:Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.
No one was complaining about fans being in the stands then. Teams were being tested/vaccinated accordingly. Hell the NCAA had other teams lined up to replace teams that couldn't get fully cleared due to testing.
Doesn't that right there tell you as a team the NCAA is serious about this? They had I think 5 teams ready to come in as replacements.
They were still taking testing and protocol serious. I don't get what's hard to understand about that. But instead of focusing on that, we want to focus on fans being in the stands. I don't follow that logic.
Teams knew what they needed to do. If you have unvaxed players, they were going to be tested every other day once at an active site. It's your job to try and do your best to make sure they aren't at risk of testing positive, because if they do test positive, you could be going home, period.
Some of the stuff I've heard relative to State's players and the way unvaxed players were seemingly allowed to be 'relaxed' throughout all of this is concerning. That concerns me more than "well fans were there.'
James Henderson said:I'm not taking any angle. I'm simply stating teams were given a sheet with rules prior to the tournament. They sent that same set of testing rules to media members. We had access to them.wilmwolf80 said:James Henderson said:Fans have been in stadiums going back to football. Players have continued to be tested by the NCAA, especially non-vaccinated players.DrummerboyWolf said:Again well said. I was going to comment too, but held my tongue which is hard. The NCAA screwed us over basically nothing and cared not one bit that 22,000 fans from all over the country were streaming into the stadium. I like the idea of personal responsibility. If you are worried then get the vaccine or wear a mask. If you are in an age group that .003% of that group might have a reaction, you make the decision to play or not. I just wished our players had been given that option instead of their dreams being crushed by a corrupt governing body.wilmwolf80 said:
Did the teams that agreed to the protocols know that there were going to be 20k+ unmasked, possibly unvaccinated fans in the stands with no safety measures in place? I'm pretty sure the NCAA guidelines said that masks and distancing were going to be required, but that obviously want enforced. To me, and I'm sure to a lot of those players, once that environment is created, how are we going to seriously test players in the name of their safety? If people can't see that hypocrisy, then I can't help them.
Fans have not been in the stands like that for an NCAA championship in any sport without measures in place. If that is the angle you want to take, it is still the fault of the NCAA for not better coordinating with the local authorities to have the measurers in place. I'm done arguing this obtuse stance you have taken.
No one was complaining about fans being in the stands then. Teams were being tested/vaccinated accordingly. Hell the NCAA had other teams lined up to replace teams that couldn't get fully cleared due to testing.
Doesn't that right there tell you as a team the NCAA is serious about this? They had I think 5 teams ready to come in as replacements.
They were still taking testing and protocol serious. I don't get what's hard to understand about that. But instead of focusing on that, we want to focus on fans being in the stands. I don't follow that logic.
Teams knew what they needed to do. If you have unvaxed players, they were going to be tested every other day once at an active site. It's your job to try and do your best to make sure they aren't at risk of testing positive, because if they do test positive, you could be going home, period.
Some of the stuff I've heard relative to State's players and the way unvaxed players were seemingly allowed to be 'relaxed' throughout all of this is concerning. That concerns me more than "well fans were there.'
In the "rules" you were given was it permitted for Vandy to have "send off hotel parties" and direct interaction with fans in and outside of the stadium? I mean if the NCAA was so "serious" about safety and protocols and such....
I am with James on this one. The rules are dumb, but they are what they are and any other team would have been handled the same. We (foolishly IMO) rolled the dice by not getting everyone vaccinated and we crapped out.
One of the main reasons for a pause is to figure out contact tracing. You don't just know who is or isn't out on contact tracing the moment you know someone is positive. Again, that's why you pause.Bas2020 said:James Henderson said:Vandy was tested Thursday/Saturday and will be today.PackHawk0619 said:If contract tracing has to be done, how is it possible that Vandy is not tested as a result?James Henderson said:They just aren't going to do that when you have multiple positives and contact tracing has to be done. Go back to what Keatts said after State had a positive test and how it was handled.Bas2020 said:KKandDD said:
I keep going back and forth on how much/if State has any blame in this. You have to think someone sat down Avent and/or the team and explained these protocols and potential outcomes (the most nightmarish one we find ourselves living through) - and if no one did that, that's a massive failure on our part.
At the same time the whole "well they should've just gotten vaccinated" just doesn't fly with me. Were we not on the bubble for a good stretch during the season? I can't imagine playing big time college baseball, fighting for a postseason appearance and having to decide if I'm going to get a vaccine that I personally probably don't need, and I know it's going to get me sick for at least a day. Why not just wait until after the season?
The country changed 6 weeks ago. Everyone converted to non masks. The NCAA should have changed their policy ... just like they changed their policy concerning fan attendance.
You can't "open up" everything and have fans all around these players and then punish the players.
Not to mention the positive test results for players that are vaccinated are likely bogus results which is routine when testing vaccinated people.
Zero common sense was used. Sit the 2 on field players and let the other 30 play. Simple solution.
But relative to NC State, I don't think any Vandy player was around a State player for the 6-foot, 15-minute window.
To me it's pretty logical to assume State players were around NC State's 4 positive players for a longer period of time than Vandy's players.
But either way, Vandy's non-vaxed players were being tested the entire time.
How do you know definately that player X was around played Y for 15 minutes. Who made that determination?
That's the problem They lumped the whole team under "contact tracing" without evidence.
Reid Johnson can easily say he was not standing next to Jarrett or player x for 15 straight minutes. They arent roomates. They dont sit beside each other in the dug out. Yet Reid was held out when he shouldnt have fallen under the "contact tracing" rule.
Who decides contact tracing? They dont have GPS clips on these kids. For the NCAA to decide that at 2am in the morning is bogus.
I guess you guys think the NCAA was just going to ignore it all because we were in the CWS and just let players play after 1 or 2 negative tests?
Read what I posted above from Keatts.
Exactly. No where am I saying the rules are set up the right way.eccdogg said:
I am with James on this one. The rules are dumb, but they are what they are and any other team would have been handled the same. We (foolishly IMO) rolled the dice by not getting everyone vaccinated and we crapped out.
But if Texas had 8 total positives within their traveling party, and maybe a dozen other unvaxed players who we know still need to be continually tested, are we really expecting the NCAA to just let them play?
I can't recall a team having 8 positives in any sport and not going on a pause to figure everything out. We want to be able to just play the next day. Mind boggling.
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