Check out @WolfpackSolar's work to design a solar car -- it's awesome! https://t.co/5WtE3B7Qf0 #wolfpack #gopack #thinkanddo

Not to be too much of a stick in the mud, but I have a lot of questions about their actual goal. A commercially-viable car? Okay, then it has to be able to run while it's cloudy or at night. Therefore it has to have batteries. If you're making a car with batteries, why not just put some solar panels on the top of a Tesla. And do the energy calculations to see how long it would take 2 square meters of solar panels to recharge those batteries (hint: forever).

A commercial electric vehicle uses ~15 kWh to drive 50 miles. To generate that much electricity in a day using solar panels, you'd need a 4kW system, about 16 normal panels. A normal panel is about 1.5 square meters and generates about 250W. You can fit maybe 3 square meters of solar panels on a car, which can provide up to 500 W of electricity.
End result is that a solar farm the size of your house could generate enough electricity to power your car for 50 miles a day. Or a solar farm the size of your car could generate enough electricity to power your car for 5 or 6 miles a day. There's not much you can do in the way of fancy engineering that can overcome physics. Either figure out how to make solar panels 10x more efficient or figure out how to make your car 10x lighter. Those are really the only options.

toddl said:

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Not to be too much of a stick in the mud, but I have a lot of questions about their actual goal. A commercially-viable car? Okay, then it has to be able to run while it's cloudy or at night. Therefore it has to have batteries. If you're making a car with batteries, why not just put some solar panels on the top of a Tesla. And do the energy calculations to see how long it would take 2 square meters of solar panels to recharge those batteries (hint: forever).

A commercial electric vehicle uses ~15 kWh to drive 50 miles. To generate that much electricity in a day using solar panels, you'd need a 4kW system, about 16 normal panels. A normal panel is about 1.5 square meters and generates about 250W. You can fit maybe 3 square meters of solar panels on a car, which can provide up to 500 W of electricity.
End result is that a solar farm the size of your house could generate enough electricity to power your car for 50 miles a day. Or a solar farm the size of your car could generate enough electricity to power your car for 5 or 6 miles a day. There's not much you can do in the way of fancy engineering that can overcome physics. Either figure out how to make solar panels 10x more efficient or figure out how to make your car 10x lighter. Those are really the only options.

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Well. Damn.

Makes me wonder what the academic advisor has to say about all this. I mean, it's pretty cool that the students are doing a fun project and taking some initiative and doing real engineering work, but in the end it's a waste of money. The math doesn't work. The only way to do it to to make an extremely light, extremely small, barebones, single-seater. (which is pretty cool, but it's not what these guys are doing. Zooming in a bit on pics on their facebook page says they're looking at 1800 lbs, 96mph top speed, 0-60 in 6.1, with 4.1 square meters of solar panels.)

I remember a few years there was some semi-commercial ultra-efficient model with solar panels on the roof. Everyone got all excited until they read the fine print which said the solar panels will run a fan in the back of the car to circulate some air through the cabin while it's parked.

These students are getting valuable experience in engineering and design while thinking big about an extremely difficult problem. Yes, it's a physics problem and not an engineering problem, but attempting to solve the impossible sometimes leads to important breakthroughs, even if they aren't the desired solution.

For an old example, A.G. Bell was trying to provide hearing to the deaf and discovered ideas leading to the invention of the telephone. Modern examples exist in the DARPA programs. In fact, if you want to hear someone oozing with arrogance, try proposing a moderately advanced solution to one of their problems and listen for it in the guaranteed response, "I'm sorry, but if that solution was acceptable, then the problem wouldn't be considered "DARPA-hard."

You would be right if you replied that DARPA wastes a lot of money, but they do fund research that eventually yields some amazing stuff.

Additionally, it's a cross-disciplinary team, so the students will learn the value of considering how to coordinate multiple perspectives. The development of engineering, design, and business/marketing in separate silos delays or makes commercially viable innovation of technology nearly impossible. With this project, they should gain experience in advancing and balancing objectives in all three areas in parallel, which is what it really takes to move cool inventions out of the laboratory and into the real world. It's the kind of hands on, experiential learning that makes Think and Do more than just a motto at State, and the ability to apply this knowledge is what makes our graduates so appealing to employers. This team appears to be made up of undergrads, who understandably might be a bit idealistic about project outcomes.

If it makes you feel any better, I work with graduate students and faculty, and while the cross-disciplinary approach is the same for a lot of projects, it's grounded in reality and the University is generating some really amazing intellectual property. I can at least assure you at that level that no one is trying to defeat the laws of physics.

The industrial sector needs higher home solar panels and more consistent energy loads to keep up its efficiency and reduce the cost of production as compared to other sectors like the residential and commercial sectors. Electricity cuts can utterly disrupt the workflow processes and operations in the industry, resulting in reduced efficiency, lower production and decreased profitability. Add to this scenario the higher tariffs and you have the perfect recipe for a complete breakdown of the industry. This is one reason why many industrialists in Karachi have either gone out of operations or have shifted operations to other countries.

toddl said:

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physics. Either figure out how to make solar panels 10x more efficient or figure out how to make your car 10x lighter. Those are really the only options.

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So....why not try and accomplish one of these things? Particularly the panel efficiency part?

If we never work on it, we'll never do it.

Pacfanweb said:

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toddl said:

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physics. Either figure out how to make solar panels 10x more efficient or figure out how to make your car 10x lighter. Those are really the only options.

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So....why not try and accomplish one of these things? Particularly the panel efficiency part?

If we never work on it, we'll never do it.

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Exactly.

There's value for students in trying to solve challenges, even if they ultimately can't. Insights gained from the process might spur other innovation.

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