Grayson Murray, who is from the Raleigh area, and was on the PGA Tour, has passed away. He was playing in the Charles Schwab Tournament in Texas and withdrew yesterday because of an illness. He has had some anxiety and depression issues as well as some alcohol addiction problems. My son used to work at a few of the golf courses around here and knew Grayson.

Sad day for his family. Thoughts and prayers for them.

https://sports.yahoo.com/grayson-murray-two-time-pga-tour-winner-dead-at-30-191304438.html

Very sad. McConnell golf junior scholar. Prayers for his family.

Mental health issues are so tough to recover. You're almost never truly "cured", even is it appears things have gotten better

The interview he had with Gary Williams from earlier in the year discussing how lows and how he didn't want his dad to have to get terrible news was very sobering

Difficult to imagine the nightmare for his parents / family. You try so hard. You think they are better. They are doing well by life's standard (it appears) with increasing success on their job.

And then, it surfaces again

A statement below from Grayson's parents, Eric and Terry Murray.

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, please call the national suicide and crisis lifeline in the United States at 988 or visit their website at https://t.co/j0traBx8ia. pic.twitter.com/wPsaYMrWrH

— PGA TOUR (@PGATOUR) May 26, 2024

Don't say this to be disrespectful in any way....but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem.

People spiral into despair over things not realizing that their situation can (and almost certainly will) improve, and often in a short period of time. If it's an illness or physical ailment, it can be healed. Even if that physical condition cannot improve, you can learn to cope with it and accept it and still live a happy life in spite of it. If it's mental depression over some circumstance in life (divorce, loss of another loved one, etc), just make it through that relatively short period of grief and sadness, and in a few short weeks or months you will once again regain your joy and passion for life.

Packchem91 said:

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Difficult to imagine the nightmare for his parents / family. You try so hard. You think they are better. They are doing well by life's standard (it appears) with increasing success on their job.

And then, it surfaces again

A statement below from Grayson's parents, Eric and Terry Murray.

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, please call the national suicide and crisis lifeline in the United States at 988 or visit their website at https://t.co/j0traBx8ia. pic.twitter.com/wPsaYMrWrH

— PGA TOUR (@PGATOUR) May 26, 2024

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Unfortunately, I thought him taking his own life was what happened when I saw the story.

Such a sad thing and it appeared he had turned the corner professionally and personally and then the demons strike again. RIP Grayson.

hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Don't say this to be disrespectful in any way....but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem.

People spiral into despair over things not realizing that their situation can (and almost certainly will) improve, and often in a short period of time. If it's an illness or physical ailment, it can be healed. Even if that physical condition cannot improve, you can learn to cope with it and accept it and still live a happy life in spite of it. If it's mental depression over some circumstance in life (divorce, loss of another loved one, etc), just make it through that relatively short period of grief and sadness, and in a few short weeks or months you will once again regain your joy and passion for life.

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you couldn't be more wrong.

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Explain why

GuerrillaPack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Don't say this to be disrespectful in any way....but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem.

People spiral into despair over things not realizing that their situation can (and almost certainly will) improve, and often in a short period of time. If it's an illness or physical ailment, it can be healed. Even if that physical condition cannot improve, you can learn to cope with it and accept it and still live a happy life in spite of it. If it's mental depression over some circumstance in life (divorce, loss of another loved one, etc), just make it through that relatively short period of grief and sadness, and in a few short weeks or months you will once again regain your joy and passion for life.

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you couldn't be more wrong.

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Explain why

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there is such a thing as chronic depression.

Real empathy is telling people the TRUTH. For example, I tried to warn people (over and over and over) to not take the poisonous covid-19 vaccines. That's actually caring about people, and trying to help them.

I'm demonstrating empathy here by trying to help people who may be contemplating suicide -- ie, talking about how their "unbearable" problem is often temporary.

Do you think that "empathy" is telling people comfortable little lies?

GuerrillaPack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Don't say this to be disrespectful in any way....but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem.

People spiral into despair over things not realizing that their situation can (and almost certainly will) improve, and often in a short period of time. If it's an illness or physical ailment, it can be healed. Even if that physical condition cannot improve, you can learn to cope with it and accept it and still live a happy life in spite of it. If it's mental depression over some circumstance in life (divorce, loss of another loved one, etc), just make it through that relatively short period of grief and sadness, and in a few short weeks or months you will once again regain your joy and passion for life.

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you couldn't be more wrong.

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Explain why

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there is such a thing as chronic depression.

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I'm discussing the issue of suicide "in general". Most of the cases of suicide are not due to "chronic depression". That's the minority of cases. In most cases of suicide, the person is dealing with an issue that they can "overcome" and get past, without being told to take psychotropic drugs, (on a "chronic depression" diagnosis) -- that are often harmful and make things even worse, by the way.

My whole point is that most people (not the minority of cases) who commit suicide could avoid doing so if they had a correct mindset on their situation -- seeing that the problems are often only temporary, and even if not, at the very least the pain from those problems will lessen greatly over time.

You think that you talking about a minority of cases "disproves" that point? Or is the real issue here that you just hate me so much and disagree with me so much on other issues that you want to be argumentative with me?

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"… if they had a correct mindset…"

I mean, isn't that the crux of the issue? You act like mental illness is a skinned knee that you just jump up and move on.
Suicide intervention is a wonderful thing, but despair doesn't just end because someone tells you things should be great
We see too many cases where people who've the world would judge as "having it all" are in the pits of despair. I've read accounts where those people KNEW they had so much to live for. Watch the Gary Williams interview of Murray from January - it is a perfect example where Murray knew too, but they atilll were too sick to overcome it.

Murray had tons of people pouring into him, pulling for him, encouraging him. It still wasn't enough.

Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Don't say this to be disrespectful in any way....but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem.

People spiral into despair over things not realizing that their situation can (and almost certainly will) improve, and often in a short period of time. If it's an illness or physical ailment, it can be healed. Even if that physical condition cannot improve, you can learn to cope with it and accept it and still live a happy life in spite of it. If it's mental depression over some circumstance in life (divorce, loss of another loved one, etc), just make it through that relatively short period of grief and sadness, and in a few short weeks or months you will once again regain your joy and passion for life.

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you couldn't be more wrong.

---

Explain why

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there is such a thing as chronic depression.

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I'm discussing the issue of suicide "in general". Most of the cases of suicide are not due to "chronic depression". That's the minority of cases. In most cases of suicide, the person is dealing with an issue that they can "overcome" and get past, without being told to take psychotropic drugs, (on a "chronic depression" diagnosis) -- that are often harmful and make things even worse, by the way.

My whole point is that most people (not the minority of cases) who commit suicide could avoid doing so if they had a correct mindset on their situation -- seeing that the problems are often only temporary, and even if not, at the very least the pain from those problems will lessen greatly over time.

You think that you talking about a minority of cases "disproves" that point? Or is the real issue here that you just hate me so much and disagree with me so much on other issues that you want to be argumentative with me?

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"… if they had a correct mindset…"

I mean, isn't that the crux of the issue? You act like mental illness is a skinned knee that you just jump up and move on.
Suicide intervention is a wonderful thing, but despair doesn't just end because someone tells you things should be great
We see too many cases where people who've the world would judge as "having it all" are in the pits of despair. I've read accounts where those people KNEW they had so much to live for. Watch the Gary Williams interview of Murray from January - it is a perfect example where Murray knew too, but they atilll were too sick to overcome it.

Murray had tons of people pouring into him, pulling for him, encouraging him. It still wasn't enough.

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I've done volunteer hotline work in the past. Some of the conversations will rip your heart out. Sometimes you just can pull yourself up by your boots.

People fake depression, gender dysphoria, autism and all kinds of **** these days. I guess Robin Williams didn't live long enough to see what became of the millenial generation and their victimhood olympics.

I was a big Gary Williams (broadcaster( fan when he hosted a morning show in CLT and then when he hosted The Morning Drive on The Golf Channel. I never knew we was an alcoholic / depressed

Very sobering and those how thing "just think positive" is the answer, should read this with something more than cynicism

https://www.5clubsgolf.com/just-for-today/

Speaking of mental illness. Just look no further than some of these threads. Every damn thread turns into crap, it's only a couple of posters.

Saying people who are depressed just need the right mindset is like saying people with measles just need to not have the measles virus.

dogplasma said:

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Saying people who are depressed just need the right mindset is like saying people with measles just need to not have the measles virus.

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Right, the solution is always to take drugs?? And "trust the science" and "trust Big Pharma"...and take those psychotropic (mind-altering drugs) that they even admit often increase suicidal thoughts/actions??

Psychotropic drugs, by definition, ALTER YOUR MIND.

I'm saying that as an alternative to taking drugs to alter your mind, that instead you have the right mindset and state of mind (philosophy & perspective on life, religious views) that would prevent you from going to a place where you think taking your life is the "answer".

But that's "crazy" talk...because the "sane" people always have blind trust in the Establishment and Big Pharma....right? Only a "craaaazy conspiracy theorist" would dare to question Big Pharma and not blindly trust that Big Pharma's drugs are the cure to everything.

GuerrillaPack said:

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dogplasma said:

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Saying people who are depressed just need the right mindset is like saying people with measles just need to not have the measles virus.

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Right....the solution is always to take drugs?? And "trust the science" and "trust Big Pharma"...and take those psychotropic (mind-altering drugs) that they even admit often increase suicidal thoughts/actions??

Psychotropic drugs, by definition, ALTER YOUR MIND.

I'm saying that instead of taking drugs to alter your mind, that instead you have the right mindset and state of mind (philosophy & perspective on life, religious views) that would prevent you from going to a place where you think taking your life is the "answer".

But that's "craaaazy" talk...because the "sane" people always have blind trust in the Establishment and Big Pharma....right?

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The problem isn't that easy. Sometimes folks just snap and off themselves. Now, I do think you have a point, in that in todays world, we just sign drugs to people. We aren't fixing the problem, just giving another pill. That is a problem.

GuerrillaPack said:

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dogplasma said:

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Saying people who are depressed just need the right mindset is like saying people with measles just need to not have the measles virus.

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Right, the solution is always to take drugs?? And "trust the science" and "trust Big Pharma"...and take those psychotropic (mind-altering drugs) that they even admit often increase suicidal thoughts/actions??

Psychotropic drugs, by definition, ALTER YOUR MIND.

I'm saying that as an alternative to taking drugs to alter your mind, that instead you have the right mindset and state of mind (philosophy & perspective on life, religious views) that would prevent you from going to a place where you think taking your life is the "answer".

But that's "crazy" talk...because the "sane" people always have blind trust in the Establishment and Big Pharma....right? Only a "craaaazy conspiracy theorist" would dare to question Big Pharma and not blindly trust that Big Pharma's drugs are the cure to everything.

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Guess I should tell my wife to get her mind right instead of talking all these mind altering drugs then. Better yet you can tell her. Then I can watch her slap the taste out of your mouth lol.

ncsupack1 said:

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The problem isn't that easy. Sometimes folks just snap and off themselves. Now, I do think you have a point, in that in todays world, we just sign drugs to people. We aren't fixing the problem, just giving another pill. That is a problem.

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Yeah, and I'm not saying that my emphasis on "education" or promoting a proper mindset/view on suicide (including religious/Biblical teachings against it, etc) would prevent every single suicide. Of course there will always be suicides. Just like there will always be a level of criminal/immoral activity in the world, even when/if you had a very upright, moral and just society. The goal is to drastically reduce the occurrence of suicides (just like crime). My point is that the most effective way to accomplish that goal is via "education" and promotion of a proper mindset/view on suicide.

The "mainstream" medical Big Pharma agenda of (falsely) diagnosing people with a label and fictitious newly created "disease" (eg, "chronic depression") so that they can say that only a Big Pharma drug can cure them is most certainly NOT the answer. In fact, the use of Big Pharma psychotropic drugs to "treat" depression are only making the problem of depression and suicide in our society much, much worse. If you listen to all the listed side effects (on commercials, etc), even Big Pharma admits that "anti-depressant" SSRI psychotropic drugs have the side effect of increasing suicidal thoughts and actions. And, at best, giving someone a mind-altering drug only masks the problem -- by suppressing their depressed thoughts by "scrambling" their emotions and mental state. It does not address the root of the problem or ever cure them of their depressed state.

GuerrillaPack said:

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ncsupack1 said:

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The problem isn't that easy. Sometimes folks just snap and off themselves. Now, I do think you have a point, in that in todays world, we just sign drugs to people. We aren't fixing the problem, just giving another pill. That is a problem.

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Yeah, and I'm not saying that my emphasis on "education" or promoting a proper mindset/view on suicide (including religious/Biblical teachings against it, etc) would prevent every single suicide. Of course there will always be suicides. Just like there will always be a level of criminal/immoral activity in the world, even when/if you had a very upright, moral and just society. The goal is to drastically reduce the occurrence of suicides (just like crime). My point is that the most effective way to accomplish that goal is via "education" and promotion of a proper mindset/view on suicide.

The "mainstream" medical Big Pharma agenda of (falsely) diagnosing people with a label and fictitious newly created "disease" (eg, "chronic depression") so that they can say that only a Big Pharma drug can cure them is most certainly NOT the answer. In fact, the use of Big Pharma psychotropic drugs to "treat" depression are only making the problem of depression and suicide in our society much, much worse. If you listen to all the listed side effects (on commercials, etc), even Big Pharma admits that "anti-depressant" SSRI psychotropic drugs have the side effect of increasing suicidal thoughts and actions. And, at best, giving someone a mind-altering drug only masks the problem -- by suppressing their depressed thoughts by "scrambling" their emotions and mental state. It does not address the root of the problem or ever cure them of their depressed state.

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We are of course over selling the pills. Zero argument from me here.

I will add this. My wife is as strong a person as I've ever met. Raised in the church by a Baptist Minister. He is the most loving, caring man I've ever met. She started having mental issues at State in 1986. She was a member of New Hope Baptist Church in Raleigh. She went to the Minister there to seek counsel. The Minister there refused to talk with her, instead saying she should talk to her father. Here lies the problem. Her father was not her Minister. He was. The church failed her right then and there. Some of her issues were caused by growing up in a Ministers family where her mother had this idea that the family had to put on this front that everything was perfect in the preachers family. Always smiling. Never any issues. That's not reality. Again she was ignored.

The church is not perfect. Never has been never will be. Minister's and church staff are being caught taking advantage of their flock every day.

Yes, we live in a world where drugs are being pushed. But sometimes that's all we have. Thank God my wife found the right combination that helps her survive.

She still wakes up some mornings screaming from a nightmare. She was screaming when I came back into the house after going to the gym this morning. All I could do was wake her up and remind her where she was and that she was safe. I never ask her about her dreams and she has never told me what went on at State that is the main cause of her depression/anxiety/PTSD. I do know she had to leave State for a semester and go to A & T to take some of her IE classes.

Glasswolf said:

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I will add this. My wife is as strong a person as I've ever met. Raised in the church by a Baptist Minister. He is the most loving, caring man I've ever met. She started having mental issues at State in 1986. She was a member of New Hope Baptist Church in Raleigh. She went to the Minister there to seek counsel. The Minister there refused to talk with her, instead saying she should talk to her father. Here lies the problem. Her father was not her Minister. He was. The church failed her right then and there. Some of her issues were caused by growing up in a Ministers family where her mother had this idea that the family had to put on this front that everything was perfect in the preachers family. Always smiling. Never any issues. That's not reality. Again she was ignored.

The church is not perfect. Never has been never will be. Minister's and church staff are being caught taking advantage of their flock every day.

Yes, we live in a world where drugs are being pushed. But sometimes that's all we have. Thank God my wife found the right combination that helps her survive.

She still wakes up some mornings screaming from a nightmare. She was screaming when I came back into the house after going to the gym this morning. All I could do was wake her up and remind her where she was and that she was safe. I never ask her about her dreams and she has never told me what went on at State that is the main cause of her depression/anxiety/PTSD. I do know she had to leave State for a semester and go to A & T to take some of her IE classes.

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Thoughts to you and your wife. Agree, church isn't always the answer. Everyone is fighting something, that's why I try not to judge people, not my place. I'll be thinking about both of you.

ncsupack1 said:

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Glasswolf said:

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I will add this. My wife is as strong a person as I've ever met. Raised in the church by a Baptist Minister. He is the most loving, caring man I've ever met. She started having mental issues at State in 1986. She was a member of New Hope Baptist Church in Raleigh. She went to the Minister there to seek counsel. The Minister there refused to talk with her, instead saying she should talk to her father. Here lies the problem. Her father was not her Minister. He was. The church failed her right then and there. Some of her issues were caused by growing up in a Ministers family where her mother had this idea that the family had to put on this front that everything was perfect in the preachers family. Always smiling. Never any issues. That's not reality. Again she was ignored.

The church is not perfect. Never has been never will be. Minister's and church staff are being caught taking advantage of their flock every day.

Yes, we live in a world where drugs are being pushed. But sometimes that's all we have. Thank God my wife found the right combination that helps her survive.

She still wakes up some mornings screaming from a nightmare. She was screaming when I came back into the house after going to the gym this morning. All I could do was wake her up and remind her where she was and that she was safe. I never ask her about her dreams and she has never told me what went on at State that is the main cause of her depression/anxiety/PTSD. I do know she had to leave State for a semester and go to A & T to take some of her IE classes.

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Thoughts to you and your wife. Agree, church isn't always the answer. Everyone is fighting something, that's why I try not to judge people, not my place. I'll be thinking about both of you.

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That's the biggest thing I've learned from my F-I-L. He has said many times that he wasn't given his position in the church to Judge people. That's Gods place. He is here just to minister to them. Thank you for the prayers. That's the most useful thing we all can do. Pray for each other, our country and the people of the world. Even our enemies.

John 13: 34-35

[url=https://www.bible.com/bible/100/JHN.13.34-35.NASB1995][/url]A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

[url=https://www.bible.com/bible/100/JHN.13.34-35.NASB1995][/url]

Drugs are very effective for a lot of people but they aren't the only solution. Therapy and counseling are also a primary part of the same equation. It's different for everyone. Maybe that's what you're trying to say but your original post comes across as dismissive of depression as a medical disorder.

dogplasma said:

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Drugs are very effective for a lot of people but they aren't the only solution. Therapy and counseling are also a primary part of the same equation. It's different for everyone. Maybe that's what you're trying to say but your original post comes across as dismissive of depression as a medical disorder.

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It's because it's exactly what it is - complete ignorance and condescension. He thinks you can just use God to educate people. Who are sick.
You know, like the cancer patient hey guys, the drug companies just want you to buy more, so lay off the meds and just get your mind right. You'll be over it in no time

We can both agree there are too many drugs AND agree that most people who see mentally sick don't need just a pep talk and a "good Ol' Christian education"
We tried to avoid drugs with my daughter for a long time, but she was having lots of depression issues and staying "on the edge". We worked carefully with her doctors to get to a limited dosage of meds that allow her to reason "normally " and avoid the desires to self harm, etc.



**Btw, was a member of a large and well run Baptist church with strong counseling community. And that church still lost a member or two a year to suicide. From hearing the families, it wasn't thru lack of talking about God's gifts or the wonderful life we could have in Him. They knew those things, but much like the Gary Williams article I linked above, they still couldn't escape "it".

I encourage everyone to go listen to the Megan Kelly podcast with Shawn Ryan (former Navy Seal). It was powerful and gives a perspective that should enlighten everyone. He discusses his struggles openly…

Glasswolf said:

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I will add this. My wife is as strong a person as I've ever met. Raised in the church by a Baptist Minister. He is the most loving, caring man I've ever met. She started having mental issues at State in 1986. She was a member of New Hope Baptist Church in Raleigh. She went to the Minister there to seek counsel. The Minister there refused to talk with her, instead saying she should talk to her father. Here lies the problem. Her father was not her Minister. He was. The church failed her right then and there. Some of her issues were caused by growing up in a Ministers family where her mother had this idea that the family had to put on this front that everything was perfect in the preachers family. Always smiling. Never any issues. That's not reality. Again she was ignored.

The church is not perfect. Never has been never will be. Minister's and church staff are being caught taking advantage of their flock every day.

Yes, we live in a world where drugs are being pushed. But sometimes that's all we have. Thank God my wife found the right combination that helps her survive.

She still wakes up some mornings screaming from a nightmare. She was screaming when I came back into the house after going to the gym this morning. All I could do was wake her up and remind her where she was and that she was safe. I never ask her about her dreams and she has never told me what went on at State that is the main cause of her depression/anxiety/PTSD. I do know she had to leave State for a semester and go to A & T to take some of her IE classes.

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Thank God your wife has a supportive and caring husband! That has to be a tough battle but so glad she is not alone.