hokiewolf said:
Civilized said:
hokiewolf said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
caryking said:
Civilized said:
CoachCase said:
Civilized said:
CoachCase said:
packofwolves said:
Dems desperately want non-citizens to vote.
And this is just another example of why people question the integrity of elections! Pubs work to ensure that elections are free and open to all who can legally vote. Dems look for the opportunity to circumvent the election process. Another example is chair of Moore County Dem Party who was arrested for removing Pub campaign signs. Yet, Republicans are a threat to Democracy!?!
You'd have more traction with this fake argument if either
a) There had ever been a problem with election security in this country, or
b) Republicans didn't have a miles-long track record of trying to suppress votes of college students, poorer Americans, and people of color
Also, what is fake about argument? Facts are facts. As far as voter suppression, the Democrats of post reconstruction especially in the South historically made it their goal to suppress voting. Of course, the demographics of the party have now changed but instead of denying the vote they are trying to make every one eligible to vote in the blink of a eye instead of going through the due process that has worked for centuries. And, America's process of citizenship is much more lenient than most countries of the free world.
Facts are facts. Agreed.
And you have no facts that support consequential election fraud occurring in America.
How do you reconcile that conflict?
80 Million plus votes…. That's very consequential!
You're proving my point.
Actually, I'm proving your opinion. I know, I know… show me one case where election fraud was won…. Civ, honestly, I shouldn't even have made my post. It really isn't important anymore. That election is over and we have a new one soon.
I've only heard people, with my perspective say the following:
We want to count all legal votes and let the chips fall where they do…. We should work to make sure that becomes the truth. You and I may disagree on US Citizens voting criteria (ID or something); however, I'm confident we both want legal elections…
I've long said I think needing ID is for made-up reasons but please go ahead and do it because then we won't have to hear about fake election insecurity anymore. Just figure out a way to put a federal ID card in everyone's hands that doesn't disenfranchise voters.
You're right, I want legal elections so I'm very glad we have them already and always have!
what percentage of voters do you think don't have an id? I think it hovers right around 0% because you need a form of ID to get other benefits from the govt, let alone cable and internet, which everyone who could potentially be dispensers to get those services as well as beer, wine, and cigarettes.
I understand I. The 90s, sure voter ID would be an issue. But not in 2024. It's a tired argument.
Not very egalitarian of you, hokie. Not very empirical, either.
The numbers you always see when this is studied is that between 3% and 11% of eligible voters in this country don't have ID that meets strict voter ID laws.
The last presidency was decided by 0.3%; 0.24%; and 0.63% in key swing states in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin.
What percentage of voters not having an ID, or having ID's unreasonably deemed unacceptable (college students) do you think is a tolerable prospective quelling of turnout?
We're super comfortable with the reality of 3% - 11% of voters not having requisite ID, with swing-state margins that decide presidencies being well under 1%?
The problem here is threefold - voter ID laws impact a statistically meaningful subset of America; the demographics they disproportionately impact are minority; and the premise of requiring strict voter ID is to combat an alleged problem - voter impersonation - that is vanishingly rare.
Quote:
Another 10 studies GAO reviewed showed mixed effects of various forms of state voter ID requirements on turnout. All 10 studies examined general elections before 2008, and 1 of the 10 studies also included the 2004 through 2012 general elections. Five of these 10 studies found that ID requirements had no statistically significant effect on turnout; in contrast 4 studies found decreases in turnout and 1 found an increase in turnout that were statistically significant.
Issues Related to Voter ID Laws
Here's one from your jam, Reason:
Do Voter ID Laws Suppress Democratic Votes
and the study it cites:
Who benefits from voter ID laws?
The study cited by Reason brings up an interesting prospective confounder - the actual negative impact of voter ID laws may be mostly or fully offset by campaigning against them to turn out the vote in areas with stricter ID laws.
But as a democratic society disenfranchising voters is an intolerable outcome. We can't be cavalier or anecdotal or worst case scenario - maliciously supportive - about cooling voter turnout.
So again - just put a federal ID card in people's hands and then we're all sure there's no problem. Everybody's got ID which will appease both the anti-disenfranchisement crowd, and the voter impersonation crowd can stop complaining about a fake problem.
you're making an assumption that that 3-11% of people without ids are also voters. I highly doubt the actual percentage of those folks actually vote, and it's not because they do t have an id. I actually think the opposite would happen, having a voter ID law would make more of these people want to vote.
If this is such a bad idea, please explain Georgia to me.
I'm making the assumption that some of the 5 million - 17 million people without ID's vote.
You're making the assumption none do.
Which assumption is safer?
Again, we have states coming down to tens of thousands of votes. Even in the most conservative scenarios, say 3% don't have ID's and only 5% of those vote, that's 250,000 people. And that's in the most realistically conservative scenario.
Sorry, there's no justifiable reason to suppress hundreds of thousands of votes.
And you seem to just be ignoring the studies I posted and just posting what you think will happen. It's been quantified what happens so there's no reason to just dream up what you think will happen.
Ensuring our citizens can vote may literally be the most fundamental right in a democracy. Do you have a problem with putting a federal photo ID in everyone's hands to make sure they aren't denied that right?
