Kylee Alons back in the headlines again...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/top-swimmer-slams-ncaa-for-eradicating-womens-rights-in-sports

Paging rainbowwolf07...

packofwolves said:

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia, a 6-foot-4 tall biological male, fully intact with male genitalia 18 times per week. Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this. When we tried to voice our concerns to the athletic department, we were told that Lia's swimming and being in our locker room was a non-negotiable, and we were offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-upenn-swimmer-testifies-congress-lia-thomas-experience-opens-up-2016-sexual-assault

…Disgusting what UPenn did to these women.

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia..."

"Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this..."

These statements seem to be in direct contradiction to one another, no?

I've already said Lia Thomas and other transitioning or transitioned women shouldn't be allowed to compete against biological women, so even though there are obvious and easy workarounds to the locker room issue already in place hopefully this situation is moot at some point in the near future.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packofwolves said:

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia, a 6-foot-4 tall biological male, fully intact with male genitalia 18 times per week. Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this. When we tried to voice our concerns to the athletic department, we were told that Lia's swimming and being in our locker room was a non-negotiable, and we were offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-upenn-swimmer-testifies-congress-lia-thomas-experience-opens-up-2016-sexual-assault

…Disgusting what UPenn did to these women.

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia..."

"Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this..."

These statements seem to be in direct contradiction to one another, no?

---

No they're not in direct contradiction. Change in women's locker room with a man with a dick or seek refuge elsewhere. That is not direct contradiction. Is this more of your fake critical analysis? We get it. You're fine with women having to shower with men against their will. That should only be for your wife, daughters, and like minded people. Women uncomfortable with it should not be forced to…. Or seek refuge elsewhere…. if they don't comply with this perverse overstep.

---

"Seek refuge," LOL. Dramatic much? For stepping into a stall or private bathroom to change clothes? Y'all make it sound like they're sharing the locker room with the Boston Strangler.

And yes, she clearly contradicts herself.

Nobody is forcing her to change in front of a trans woman. Her teammates didn't change in front of Lia Thomas because there were options not to. So by definition they weren't forced.

You may not like the workaround. You may think there shouldn't even need to be a workaround. Fine. But neither she nor her teammates were forced to undress in front of Lia Thomas.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packofwolves said:

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia, a 6-foot-4 tall biological male, fully intact with male genitalia 18 times per week. Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this. When we tried to voice our concerns to the athletic department, we were told that Lia's swimming and being in our locker room was a non-negotiable, and we were offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-upenn-swimmer-testifies-congress-lia-thomas-experience-opens-up-2016-sexual-assault

…Disgusting what UPenn did to these women.

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia..."

"Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this..."

These statements seem to be in direct contradiction to one another, no?

---

No they're not in direct contradiction. Change in women's locker room with a man with a dick or seek refuge elsewhere. That is not direct contradiction. Is this more of your fake critical analysis? We get it. You're fine with women having to shower with men against their will. That should only be for your wife, daughters, and like minded people. Women uncomfortable with it should not be forced to…. Or seek refuge elsewhere…. if they don't comply with this perverse overstep.

---

"Seek refuge," LOL. Dramatic much? For stepping into a stall or private bathroom to change clothes? Y'all make it sound like they're sharing the locker room with the Boston Strangler.

And yes, she clearly contradicts herself.

Nobody is forcing her to change in front of a trans woman. Her teammates didn't change in front of Lia Thomas because there were options not to. So by definition they weren't forced.

You may not like the workaround. You may think there shouldn't even need to be a workaround. Fine. But neither she nor her teammates were forced to undress in front of Lia Thomas.

---

Bull***** They are being forced to change in front of a man with a dick in the locker room unless they seek refuge elsewhere, ie a bathroom stall. There is no contradiction. What type of pervert tries to justify this using semantics? Man, you have really gone off the deep end. Who knew you would become so anti-woman just to cater to the woke issue of the year?

---

Clearly you don't know what the word "forced" means.

I've already said trans women shouldn't compete against bio women so the locker room issue will go away if that bears out.

But the trans issue is complicated to work through and doesn't need to be made more difficult by making **** up, like she's doing. They weren't forced to change in front of a man or trans woman. They had other options.

Nobody was forced. She said so herself. You just don't think she should have to work around the issue, which is fine, but just say that.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packofwolves said:

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia, a 6-foot-4 tall biological male, fully intact with male genitalia 18 times per week. Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this. When we tried to voice our concerns to the athletic department, we were told that Lia's swimming and being in our locker room was a non-negotiable, and we were offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-upenn-swimmer-testifies-congress-lia-thomas-experience-opens-up-2016-sexual-assault

…Disgusting what UPenn did to these women.

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia..."

"Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this..."

These statements seem to be in direct contradiction to one another, no?

---

No they're not in direct contradiction. Change in women's locker room with a man with a dick or seek refuge elsewhere. That is not direct contradiction. Is this more of your fake critical analysis? We get it. You're fine with women having to shower with men against their will. That should only be for your wife, daughters, and like minded people. Women uncomfortable with it should not be forced to…. Or seek refuge elsewhere…. if they don't comply with this perverse overstep.

---

"Seek refuge," LOL. Dramatic much? For stepping into a stall or private bathroom to change clothes? Y'all make it sound like they're sharing the locker room with the Boston Strangler.

And yes, she clearly contradicts herself.

Nobody is forcing her to change in front of a trans woman. Her teammates didn't change in front of Lia Thomas because there were options not to. So by definition they weren't forced.

You may not like the workaround. You may think there shouldn't even need to be a workaround. Fine. But neither she nor her teammates were forced to undress in front of Lia Thomas.

---

Bull***** They are being forced to change in front of a man with a dick in the locker room unless they seek refuge elsewhere, ie a bathroom stall. There is no contradiction. What type of pervert tries to justify this using semantics? Man, you have really gone off the deep end. Who knew you would become so anti-woman just to cater to the woke issue of the year?

---

Clearly you don't know what the word "forced" means.

I've already said trans women shouldn't compete against bio women so the locker room issue will go away if that bears out.

But the trans issue is complicated to work through and doesn't need to be made more difficult by making **** up, like she's doing. They weren't forced to change in front of a man or trans woman. They had other options.

Nobody was forced. She said so herself. You just don't think she should have to work around the issue, which is fine, but just say that.

---

Wrong. If the women want to change in the locker room, they were forced to change in front of a man with a dick in the locker room. They could change in a bathroom stall without a man with a dick in the stall with them, but not in the locker room.. You clearly are trying to play semantics because you are a ****ing wacko.

The trans issue is not complicated to work through. Men should not be changing with women. It doesn't matter if they are bat**** crazy and think they are a woman with a *****. They are men.

You pretend to be outraged by people "making **** up", yet you do that very thing with your bull**** about dozens of genders and pretending transgenderism isn't a mental illness.

They were forced. Your enabling semantic bull**** doesn't change that fact. I've been very clear they should not have to go to another room to change clothes in the women's locker room. Are you slow? It's not a work around. It is forcing the women to change in front of a man with a dick or go to another room.

---

Are the 5% of non-human species that can change sexes mentally ill?

Is everyone either gay or straight? Or is bisexuality a real thing?

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packofwolves said:

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia, a 6-foot-4 tall biological male, fully intact with male genitalia 18 times per week. Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this. When we tried to voice our concerns to the athletic department, we were told that Lia's swimming and being in our locker room was a non-negotiable, and we were offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-upenn-swimmer-testifies-congress-lia-thomas-experience-opens-up-2016-sexual-assault

…Disgusting what UPenn did to these women.

---

"My teammates and I were forced to undress in the presence of Lia..."

"Some girls opted to change in bathroom stalls, and others used the family bathroom to avoid this..."

These statements seem to be in direct contradiction to one another, no?

---

No they're not in direct contradiction. Change in women's locker room with a man with a dick or seek refuge elsewhere. That is not direct contradiction. Is this more of your fake critical analysis? We get it. You're fine with women having to shower with men against their will. That should only be for your wife, daughters, and like minded people. Women uncomfortable with it should not be forced to…. Or seek refuge elsewhere…. if they don't comply with this perverse overstep.

---

"Seek refuge," LOL. Dramatic much? For stepping into a stall or private bathroom to change clothes? Y'all make it sound like they're sharing the locker room with the Boston Strangler.

And yes, she clearly contradicts herself.

Nobody is forcing her to change in front of a trans woman. Her teammates didn't change in front of Lia Thomas because there were options not to. So by definition they weren't forced.

You may not like the workaround. You may think there shouldn't even need to be a workaround. Fine. But neither she nor her teammates were forced to undress in front of Lia Thomas.

---

Bull***** They are being forced to change in front of a man with a dick in the locker room unless they seek refuge elsewhere, ie a bathroom stall. There is no contradiction. What type of pervert tries to justify this using semantics? Man, you have really gone off the deep end. Who knew you would become so anti-woman just to cater to the woke issue of the year?

---

Clearly you don't know what the word "forced" means.

I've already said trans women shouldn't compete against bio women so the locker room issue will go away if that bears out.

But the trans issue is complicated to work through and doesn't need to be made more difficult by making **** up, like she's doing. They weren't forced to change in front of a man or trans woman. They had other options.

Nobody was forced. She said so herself. You just don't think she should have to work around the issue, which is fine, but just say that.

---

Wrong. If the women want to change in the locker room, they were forced to change in front of a man with a dick in the locker room. They could change in a bathroom stall without a man with a dick in the stall with them, but not in the locker room.. You clearly are trying to play semantics because you are a ****ing wacko.

The trans issue is not complicated to work through. Men should not be changing with women. It doesn't matter if they are bat**** crazy and think they are a woman with a *****. They are men.

You pretend to be outraged by people "making **** up", yet you do that very thing with your bull**** about dozens of genders and pretending transgenderism isn't a mental illness.

They were forced. Your enabling semantic bull**** doesn't change that fact. I've been very clear they should not have to go to another room to change clothes in the women's locker room. Are you slow? It's not a work around. It is forcing the women to change in front of a man with a dick or go to another room.

---

Are the 5% of non-human species that can change sexes mentally ill?

Is everyone either gay or straight? Or is bisexuality a real thing?

---

Are you comparing the human brain to that of a clownfish? LOL. That's appropriate. What a joke.

---

He's a clown. Not better than fat wendy....

He doesn't want to have a conversation based on facts. He's too busy trying to figure out which women's bathroom he's going to walk into next to get his jollies....

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Are the 5% of non-human species that can change sexes mentally ill?

Is everyone either gay or straight? Or is bisexuality a real thing?

---

Are you comparing the human brain to that of a clownfish? LOL. That's appropriate. What a joke.

---

Yeah, good one, find the animal with the funny name. Haha.

Now do the thousands of other species that change sexes.

Are they mentally ill?

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Are the 5% of non-human species that can change sexes mentally ill?

Is everyone either gay or straight? Or is bisexuality a real thing?

---

Are you comparing the human brain to that of a clownfish? LOL. That's appropriate. What a joke.

---

Yeah, good one, find the animal with the funny name. Haha.

Now do the thousands of other species that change sexes.

Are they mentally ill?

---

It's a stupid question whether it's a worm or a clown fish. What a joke the left has become. Anti science fools.

I've never seen a sea bass with a stethoscope or a prescription pad to write scripts for gender affirming care.

---

I'll take your avoidance of the question as a 'no'.

So no, the thousands of non-human species that change genders are not "mentally ill."

Only humans. Got it.

packgrad said:

---

Using civ's logic, a man would not be mentally ill if he killed all of his girlfriend's/wife's children that are not from his seed.


Because some animals do that.

---

Don't you understand the left's science?

It's "follow the science as long as it falls in line with our political agenda..."

If it doesn't then it's not "really science..."

Like I said earlier... trying to debate a low character individual like Civ is a waste of time. I have issued numerous challenges to him for a gentleman's debate.

He refuses because he knows he is as full of manure as the rest of his MARXIST PARTY.

And you may as well add pervert to his resume as well too now.

packofwolves said:

---

Civ, I am speechless with the crap you post regarding biological women. Just can't bring myself to discuss/debate with you anymore on this topic.

---

Weird take since my stance on the topic is essentially "biological women shouldn't have to compete against trans women, but for the time being, in certain very limited circumstances they do, and regarding the logistical details of those teams and competitions, they are adults, and can and do figure out reasonable workarounds."

It's not sacrilege to debate how to integrate transsexual people into our society but that's your choice to withdraw from the conversation.

I live with, work alongside, and am in a family with lots of biological women that share my views on the topic. 60% of Americans think trans acceptance and integration is either right about where it needs to be or hasn't gone far enough. I fall in the "just about right" camp. I'm not trying to upend society but I also think people are big babies and very selective when it comes to topics of sex and gender.

I would love to see how much the Venn diagrams of people in this country that are grossly offended by this topic are Southern Baptist or a Mormon or Catholic or other denominations or religions that don't ordain women, or want to deny women reproductive health rights. Kinda hard to claim "BUT BUT BUT, think of the WOMEN" in edge cases like inconvenient shower situations because of trans swimmers in locker rooms but then turn around and deny women leadership positions in church or deny women the freedom over their own reproductive health.

Also if my stances on this topic offend and harm biological women so badly, they'll send that message at the polls. They make up the majority of the electorate and sent a resounding message in 2022 when they felt Dobbs did them harm.

What we'll actually likely see in 2024 is that trans rights issues rank low on biological women's list of electorally consequential topics, or they support trans rights, or both.

hokiewolf said:

---

Civ, why is it ok for a transgender man to occupy the entire locker room space and the majority of the female athletes who's locker room also is has to move to other spaces to be comfortable enough to change clothes. To me, it's backwards. The transgender should be given another place to serve as their locker room, not the other way around.

---

I'm fine with that approach hokie.

I've never said on here that intact genitalia trans women swimmers using the locker room as their own personal dick-slinging exhibition is appropriate or is a precondition of their inclusion on the team. Explain to them they'll have a private locker area, or will get to hit the showers first, or whatever. There are a bunch of different ways to do it that are mature, respectful, and reasonable.

Most of these same complaints would still persist though because what's really being objected to is their presence in the locker room at all, not their behavior. Lia Thomas isn't leering at her teammates or waving her ***** around. I'm sure it's a fairly awkward situation and given that everyone is analyzing the situation looking for any misstep and she's trying to gain the trust and respect of her teammates I can't imagine her behavior is anything but completely above board.

I've said multiple times on here that at high levels of sport trans women shouldn't be allowed to compete against biological women.

But until we work this out as a society, we don't need to act like a trans woman changing or showering around the corner 20 feet away from you is sex assault or that adult women on a collegiate sports team are being harmed by sharing facilities with a trans woman.

Civ has equated transgenderism with clown fish and abortion today. He's standing on solid ground, folks.

packgrad said:

---

Listen to civ, ladies. He will tell you when you are being harmed. He, and the wacko women in his life, determine when you are safe or harmed.

Take your showers with men with dicks and like it. You're just fine. Toughen up.

---

I won't tell women anything. I'm not making policy decisions.

Women will tell us with their vote next year whether they think the right's pet culture-war issues are nearly as important to them as the men on the right tell them they should be.

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Listen to civ, ladies. He will tell you when you are being harmed. He, and the wacko women in his life, determine when you are safe or harmed.

Take your showers with men with dicks and like it. You're just fine. Toughen up.

---

I won't tell women anything. I'm not making policy decisions.

Women will tell us with their vote next year whether they think the right's pet culture-war issues are nearly as important to them as the men on the right tell them they should be.

---

Yes. Like they did with Target. Those evil conservative men. Lol.

packgrad said:

---

Using civ's logic, a man would not be mentally ill if he killed all of his girlfriend's/wife's children that are not from his seed.


Because some animals do that.

---

More animals.

Civ, what are your thoughts on gay incest?

Popular Florida manatee died of injuries from sex with his brother, aquarium concludes https://t.co/CtotKjbRKd

— Fox News (@FoxNews) July 28, 2023

I hear you man and obviously believe what you're saying (and crazy coincidence!)

Obviously this topic is fraught and divides folks.

You're obviously closer to the situation than anyone here but if I was a gal swimming at that level I'd be fairly pissed she's allowed to be there in the first place on the basis of fair competition alone. Thomas was a top-500 male swimmer and an immediate national champion after switching to swim against women.

Biological women shouldn't be competing against transitioned women and that can't help the already awkward locker room dynamics. Hopefully the NCAA and other orgs make this change soon.

Hope your daughter had or is having an otherwise awesome college experience!