Civil Rights Activist Promotes Alternative to the CRT Wave Sweeping Our Schools

6,972 Views | 70 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by BBW12OG
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/07/a-better-way-to-fight-critical-race-theory/

Quote:

Let me be clear about one thing up front: I think critical race theory is nonsense. Most of its proponents insist that all black people are perpetually oppressed victims, and all white people are our oppressors. This does nothing to move the black community, or our country, forward.
Quote:

As someone who has spent decades working in the communities that CRT advocates claim to care about, in my view it offers no solution to unsafe neighborhoods, failing schools, or rising crime and homicide rates. Instead, it offers a cocktail of victimhood and hopelessness that never has nor will fix the inequities it claims to address, while lining the pockets of professors and consultants who push it in our institutions.
Quote:

For one thing, far too many of these CRT trainings makes things worse, not better. Also, these exercises divert time, energy, and resources from real solutions for the people who actually are suffering. Even if CRT measurably improved white attitudes and actions (which I am far from convinced it does), it would do nothing to reduce violence, build wealth, or improve educational outcomes in the communities that need it most.
Quote:

With energy and organizational prowess, parents across the country are getting involved in what their kids are learning. This is great. What if, in addition to learning about CRT, students learned about how the black community came to its own rescue throughout American history by resisting oppression and building our own institutions and supporting one another? Then they could decide for themselves whether whites hold the power to doom black Americans to everlasting victimhood.
statefan91
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Quote:

With energy and organizational prowess, parents across the country are getting involved in what their kids are learning. This is great. What if, in addition to learning about CRT, students learned about how the black community came to its own rescue throughout American history by resisting oppression and building our own institutions and supporting one another? Then they could decide for themselves whether whites hold the power to doom black Americans to everlasting victimhood.
That sounds really well rounded. Are there many schools that are actually teaching CRT out there? All the references I have found is that it's being taught at a collegiate level paired with legal theory.
dogplasma
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I honestly don't know what CRT is, exactly. But a quick search finds this article which seems to do a good job summing up things:

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05

Without digging deep, which I have not much interest in spending time doing, the CRT debate feels like another instance of something being blown into a much bigger deal than it really is because it strikes a chord and helps create dividing lines. From the linked article:

"Critical race theory is not a synonym for culturally relevant teaching, which emerged in the 1990s. This teaching approach seeks to affirm students' ethnic and racial backgrounds and is intellectually rigorous. But it's related in that one of its aims is to help students identify and critique the causes of social inequality in their own lives.

Many educators support, to one degree or another, culturally relevant teaching and other strategies to make schools feel safe and supportive for Black students and other underserved populations. (Students of color make up the majority of school-aged children.) But they don't necessarily identify these activities as CRT-related.

As one teacher-educator put it: "The way we usually see any of this in a classroom is: 'Have I thought about how my Black kids feel? And made a space for them, so that they can be successful?' That is the level I think it stays at, for most teachers." Like others interviewed for this explainer, the teacher-educator did not want to be named out of fear of online harassment."
PackFansXL
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statefan91 said:

Quote:

With energy and organizational prowess, parents across the country are getting involved in what their kids are learning. This is great. What if, in addition to learning about CRT, students learned about how the black community came to its own rescue throughout American history by resisting oppression and building our own institutions and supporting one another? Then they could decide for themselves whether whites hold the power to doom black Americans to everlasting victimhood.
That sounds really well rounded. Are there many schools that are actually teaching CRT out there? All the references I have found is that it's being taught at a collegiate level paired with legal theory.
Absolutely already on high school campuses in many locations. Just google high school CRT curriculum. This stuff has been taught in college teacher education courses for at least a decade. That's why there are so many willing advocates in the teachers union.
DrummerboyWolf
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I have been following Bob Woodson for over a year. He was on with Glenn Beck and has done great work throughout his life. I donated to his foundation last year.

https://1776unites.com
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
statefan91
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So is it the CRT curriculum from law schools that is being taught, or is it subjects related to CRT? I did google but wasn't able to tell.
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/06/crt-backlash-is-not-astroturf/

Quote:

CRT teaches that American ideals and institutions are mere fronts for white supremacy. It instructs its devotees to see everything through the lens of racial group identity and inherited guilt rather than treat individuals as individuals. Along with related critical gender and sexuality theories, it has increasingly colonized workplace training, journalism, and campus culture, and more recently entered the curricula of K12 schools, where its practitioners are embraced and showered with cash by left-leaning school boards and educator groups such as the National Education Association.
BBW12OG
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dogplasma said:

I honestly don't know what CRT is, exactly. But a quick search finds this article which seems to do a good job summing up things:

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05

Without digging deep, which I have not much interest in spending time doing, the CRT debate feels like another instance of something being blown into a much bigger deal than it really is because it strikes a chord and helps create dividing lines. From the linked article:

"Critical race theory is not a synonym for culturally relevant teaching, which emerged in the 1990s. This teaching approach seeks to affirm students' ethnic and racial backgrounds and is intellectually rigorous. But it's related in that one of its aims is to help students identify and critique the causes of social inequality in their own lives.

Many educators support, to one degree or another, culturally relevant teaching and other strategies to make schools feel safe and supportive for Black students and other underserved populations. (Students of color make up the majority of school-aged children.) But they don't necessarily identify these activities as CRT-related.

As one teacher-educator put it: "The way we usually see any of this in a classroom is: 'Have I thought about how my Black kids feel? And made a space for them, so that they can be successful?' That is the level I think it stays at, for most teachers." Like others interviewed for this explainer, the teacher-educator did not want to be named out of fear of online harassment."
Wouldn't expect anything other than towing the party line.

You are very uninformed on the topic judging from your post. You see it as "much to do about nothing" in typical liberal fashion.

Remember when your party said they were only removing statues of Confederate Generals, Leaders etc...? How's that working out?

CRT is nothing like what you described. It teaches that white people are inherently racist from birth, the 1619 Project is the "true history" of America, the Revolutionary War was fought to preserve slavery.. I could go on but you most likely could care less.

The mere fact you support it and say that there is "nothing to it" says enough.

Here are two articles about CRT. You take from it what you want. But thanks for expressing your opinion. Reads damn near word for word from MSM talking points.

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2021/ask-the-expert-critical-race-theory-attack-in-schools

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/yes-critical-race-theory-is-being-taught-in-public-schools

There are two perspectives there. Not sure anyone can say that I'm not "fair and balanced." Sorry if you don't like the facts that I present but you damn sure cant refute them.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
GuerrillaPack
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That's a complete whitewash of what CRT is. CRT is basically a beefed-up version of the "white privilege" propaganda. In a nutshell, Critical Race Theory teaches that the United States (and Western civilization, as a whole) was created for the purpose of "giving white people privilege" and "protecting the power of white people". It's basically just saying that all white people have "oppressed" non-whites, and "gained unwarranted privilege", and that the United States and Western civilization was founded "to perpetuate white supremacy".

It teaches white children to hate themselves, and teaches non-whites to hate white people and see them as "evil oppressors".

These movements based upon "criticism" are a Marxist concept. There are also various "criticism" movements aimed at attacking the Bible's authenticity..."textual criticism", etc. Essentially, the Marxists just target anything they want to attack and destroy (such as the Bible, Western notions of freedom, and the European race), and develop a "criticism" movement as a way to "legitimize" their attacks on those things, giving those attacks the veneer of "academic" or "scholarly" work.

The end goal of all this is to teach non-whites (and whites) to hate the United States and the founding principles (of freedom/liberty, etc), leading to wholesale revisions to the Bill of Rights (eg, severely curtailing 2nd Amendment gun rights and 1st Amendment free speech rights). And eventually, once the movement towards a one-world government gains more steam, to the argument that the United States as a nation should be done away with -- eg, and merged into a "North American Union", similar to the European Union, for example.

A couple articles going into the Marxist roots of CRT:

https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/

https://www.newsweek.com/critical-race-theory-repackaged-marxism-opinion-1599557

The first article goes into how CRT proponents also argue for suspending private property rights, and seizing land (of "racist" whites) and re-distributing that land to "oppressed" populations. The far Left would jump at this...after all, they say that "white people stole all the land in America from the native Americans", right? This was actually recently done in South Africa, where the ruling ANC government of South Africa passed a law literally seizing the land of white landowners. And the ANC party is, you guessed it, overtly Marxist in ideology.
statefan91
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Has anyone linked to the primary source of CRT? It seems like this thread has a lot of interpretations / summaries but I haven't seen the actual tenants or source material.
PackFansXL
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statefan91 said:

Has anyone linked to the primary source of CRT? It seems like this thread has a lot of interpretations / summaries but I haven't seen the actual tenants or source material.
Did you read the link to the article written by Robert Woodson in my original post? You can also find dozens of articles in the link in the first quote in my post.
GuerrillaPack
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Parents are insane to send their children to these government-run indoctrination camps....errr "public schools". It wasn't so bad even 20 years ago. But in the last 10-20 years it has gotten out of control. You are basically sending your child to be brainwashed in the the far Left, Marxist, anti-God, atheist, anti-American agendas. Your children will be taught the pro-homosexual agenda in elementary school, and now the transgender madness. They will be taught this "white privilege" and CRT about how white people are "evil oppressors" and the United States is an "evil white supremacist nation".

In some of the more far Left cities and states, after teaching your child the transgender agenda, they will ask the children if any of them think they want to change genders, and if any of the children say "yes", they can even refer the child to a psychologist or whatever, and eventually get the process going to have the child start their gender transition, and even if it's against the parents wishes to do so they can FORCE the transition to take place via the courts!

Forget defunding the police. Defund these Marxist brainwashing camps. Defund the public schools.

With this CRT and now many schools mandating the covid vaccines and the continuing mask insanity, MANY more parents are going to remove their children from these schools and either homeschool them or send them to private schools.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
statefan91
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I did - I was looking for source material rather than a summary / viewpoint from your other. I haven't been able to find a link to the foundational documents of CRT so I can understand what it actually is.
BBW12OG
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statefan91 said:

I did - I was looking for source material rather than a summary / viewpoint from your other. I haven't been able to find a link to the foundational documents of CRT so I can understand what it actually is.
Jeez.... 3 seconds....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory#:~:text=While%20critical%20race%20theorists%20do,on%20the%20part%20of%20individuals.

There are plenty of links there that you should be able to research on your own to determine what you are looking for.

Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
caryking
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I'm not ready to defund the public school system; however, I am 100% ready to defund the US Dept of Education. Get the Federal Government out of the "one size fits all" education system!

Then, I would work to defund the NC Dept of Education. Each county can create their own policies and curricula. If a city want to divorce itself from the county, then they should be able to do so...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
IseWolf22
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Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting
caryking
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IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
IseWolf22
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Apologies, this is going to be long winded.

I'll link to one of the main "Into to CRT" documents actually made by CRT scholars. If the link doesn't work, google "Delgado and Stefancic."

Here is an exert from the intro:
Quote:

The critical race theory (CRT) movement is a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transforming the relationship among race, racism, and power. The movement considers many of the same issues that conventional civil rights and ethnic studies discourses take up, but places them in a broader perspective that includes economics, history, context, group- and self-interest, and even feelings and the unconscious. Unlike traditional civil rights, which embraces incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory questions the very foundations of the liberal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitutional law. Although CRT began as a movement in the law, it has rapidly spread beyond that discipline. Today, many in the field of education consider themselves critical race theorists who use CRT's ideas to understand issues of school discipline and hierarchy, tracking, controversies over curriculum and history, and IQ and achievement testing. Political scientists ponder voting strategies coined by critical race theorists. Ethnic studies courses often include a unit on critical race theory, and American studies departments teach material on critical white studies developed by CRT writers. Unlike some academic disciplines, critical race theory contains an activist dimension. It not only tries to understand our social situation, but to change it; it sets out not only to ascertain how society organizes itself along racial lines and hierarchies, but to transform it for the better.

So discussing CRT is really difficult online because almost no one agrees on the definition. Liberals will insist no one is teaching CRT outside of college classes and that is technically true if you are referring to the strict academic framework of CRT. I still think it's a garbage framework, but there is a lot of terrible ideas in academia.

However, CRT has had a ton of downstream influence and there is a whole lot of ideas that as far as I know, don't have a name and so now are lumped in with CRT. Robin DiAngelo and Ibram Kendi are both heavily influenced by CRT even if their views are of their own. IMO, the world view they espouse is highly problematic. Kendi wants a US Dept of Anti-racism that has the power to override Congress and SCOTUS.

CRT has also been taught for years in college education departments. Because teachers are learning about it, it's now starting to filter down into K-12 curriculums. Sometimes it's relatively tame and other times it pushes CRT ideas even further beyond what academics argue for. This is where we get some of the really stupid things we've seen like teaching kids to denounce whiteness, or that hard work and showing up on time is white supremacy. Here is an Atlantic article about the implementation of a BLM curriculum in Evanston, IL. It's not called CRT, but CRT heavily influences this stuff.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/should-black-lives-matter-agenda-be-taught-school/618277/

If that type of stuff was being taught in my kid's elementary school, I'd be at the school board screaming as well. I don't think many schools are going this far, but some certainly are, and I don't blame parents for being furious. On the other hand, some of these Anti-CRT laws are really broad and may shut down teaching facts about our racial history. I have not taken a real look at any of these though so I'm unsure. Each state law is different and each school district is approaching this differently, making generalized discussions extremely difficult.

Link to CRT source doc:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5441df7ee4b02f59465d2869/t/5d8e9fdec6720c0557cf55fa/1569628126531/DELGADO++Critical+Race+Theory.pdf
GuerrillaPack
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IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting

It depends on the issue, but you have to choose sides on most issues. Because for most issues, we do know what is true/correct. For example, do you teach that homosexuality and transgenderism are "acceptable" lifestyles, or do you teach children that they are deviant lifestyles and wrong? Or do we have a debate with children about it, and teach them both views? Or what about with Creationism or Intelligent Design versus the theory of evolution and leaving God out of the equation?

Right now, with those and many other issues, only the Leftist view is allowed and mandated to teach children. The conservative, Christian, or right-wing view is banned. There is no debate allowed. The government has chosen sides. They've sided with the Marxist Left and are teaching that worldview.

At the end of the day, parents should make the decision as to what is taught to their children. Not the government. That's one of the main reasons that I believe the government should be completely uninvolved in schools. And that's not really that "radical" of a viewpoint. It wasn't too long ago when the government also was not involved in health care. And our health care system was much better prior to government involvement. It would be the same with education. Most of the best colleges or universities, for example, are private and not public. All levels of education would be better without government involvement. And a ton of money would be saved in education too, by eliminating the "bureaucratic" waste. Instead of people paying loads of money in property taxes and other taxes to support the government schools, cut those taxes and allow the people to have the choice how to educate their children and spend all that money that goes to education - such as sending them to a private school where the values of that parent can be taught to the children.
dogplasma
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GuerrillaPack said:

Critical Race Theory teaches that the United States (and Western civilization, as a whole) was created for the purpose of "giving white people privilege" and "protecting the power of white people". It's basically just saying that all white people have "oppressed" non-whites, and "gained unwarranted privilege", and that the United States and Western civilization was founded "to perpetuate white supremacy".

It teaches white children to hate themselves, and teaches non-whites to hate white people and see them as "evil oppressors".
That smacks of internet hysteria. I'm sure there are curricula that call for discussion on race and the history of oppression (as there certainly should be), but that's extrapolation to a ridiculous degree IMO. Or maybe I'm wrong and there's a school curriculum out there that reads like your post?
packgrad
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Nm. I don't care.
cowboypack02
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dogplasma said:

GuerrillaPack said:

Critical Race Theory teaches that the United States (and Western civilization, as a whole) was created for the purpose of "giving white people privilege" and "protecting the power of white people". It's basically just saying that all white people have "oppressed" non-whites, and "gained unwarranted privilege", and that the United States and Western civilization was founded "to perpetuate white supremacy".

It teaches white children to hate themselves, and teaches non-whites to hate white people and see them as "evil oppressors".
That smacks of internet hysteria. I'm sure there are curricula that call for discussion on race and the history of oppression (as there certainly should be), but that's extrapolation to a ridiculous degree IMO. Or maybe I'm wrong and there's a school curriculum out there that reads like your post?
Before Covid we had dozens of examples here in the state of teachers assigning work that is inappropriate for in regards to CRT and it already had parents up in arms about it, and then to tell kids that they don't want the parents listening in on the teacher doesn't help clear the air at all...in fact it helps to fuel the speculation.

If I search NEA, the largest teachers union in the country with 3 million members, and CRT I come across lots of articles that give the NEA's position on CRT and all of them are positive. The union is also extremely supportive of BLM, who created billions of dollars in damage to cities all over the country.

Here is the first link that I see directly from the NEA website: https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/racial-social-justice

To quote a elementary school teacher on this page in Fayetteville, NC: "What we're seeing right now is another boiling point in America: the effects of systemic and institutionalized racism coming to a head. Black Americans and their allies are coming together to stand up to injustices"

Here is a second link from the NEA: https://www.nea.org/professional-excellence/conferences-events/conference-racial-social-justice

In case you didn't get to go to this conference here are the highlights:
  • Build local power: We spark dialog about our successes and challenges to inform our own strategies and tactics to grow the movement for education justice.
  • Center intersectionality: We uplift the intersections of social justice, identity, and democracy in the movement for education justice.
Lets also not forget what the NEA says that they stand for:
  • Racial Justice: The systematic fair treatment of people of all races that results in equitable opportunities and outcomes for everyone.
  • Social Justice: A society in which the distribution of resources is equitable, all members are physically and psychologically safe and secure, and individuals are self-determining and interdependent

In case you are wondering how this impacts your NC teacher - There are 60,000 teachers in NC that are members of the NCAE. The president of the NCAE has said that their values line up with the NEA, so why should I doubt them?

As of 2020 there were 98,590 teachers in NC, which mean that 2/3rd of the people who are teaching our children believe in the same things that the NEA believe in, which I have highlighted above. I don't think that you can say that it's internet hysteria. That is what our children are being taught....


dogplasma - just to give you a bit of insight on where I started at here was my original comment:

"Maybe so, but at the same time that stuff like CRT is starting to leak into the classroom at a K-12 level teachers are becoming more secretive about what they are actually teaching to kids. If teachers want to dispel some of this maybe they should be willing to allow the parents who are concerned about what teachers are teaching to be allowed to do things like watch the zoom videos of the lesson for the day, or review the syllabus."

After taking some time and reading about what the teachers unions stood for and what was being taught in schools I moved away from my original comment to what you see above.
BBW12OG
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We must follow the MSM...they tell us how to think..... if we don't follow them we will be in trouble...

So many sheep.... laughable...
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
MayorStoner
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today is a pretty day to get my journal, a glass of sweet tea, sit in the open air and examine my privilege.
IseWolf22
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pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!


That is exactly what leftists say when they want to censor something.
caryking
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IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!


That is exactly what leftists say when they want to censor something.
?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
GuerrillaPack
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IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!


That is exactly what leftists say when they want to censor something.


Leftists already ban all sorts of teachings in schools, such as Creationism or Intelligent Design. As I said in a previous post, you have to make a choice on each subject you teach. You don't just teach all possible views on any subject, and let the children have a debate. The government-run schools have made the choice to teach the Marxist/Leftist, anti-Christian agenda on a whole host of important issues.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
BBW12OG
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IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!


That is exactly what leftists say when they want to censor something.
You would know wouldn't you?
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
IseWolf22
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pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

pineknollshoresking said:

IseWolf22 said:

Great article overall.

Favorite quote:
Quote:

America is about free competition, including the free competition of ideas. CRT should neither be banned nor implemented as fact; it should, instead, be debated and scrutinized. Banning ideas only teaches our kids either to fear them or become fascinated with them. At the end of the day, critical race theory is just that: a theory. And it should remain solely a theory in our schools. I am confident that anyone who examines it rationally will find CRT severely wanting



Completely disagree! You never want to legitimize crap! It's not worth a debate!!


That is exactly what leftists say when they want to censor something.
?


Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or deplatformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.
PackFansXL
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IseWolf22 said:



Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or de-platformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.

I agree with this in principle. Finding school leaders willing to approach things this way seems far less likely in our currently polarized environment.
GuerrillaPack
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PackFansXL said:

IseWolf22 said:



Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or de-platformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.

I agree with this in principle. Finding school leaders willing to approach things this way seems far less likely in our currently polarized environment.
It sounds good in principle to have an open debate on all issues. But it's just not how the world works. Could you see public schools, for instance, teaching both the flat earth & Biblical fundamentalist view of cosmology and the globe/heliocentric/Big_Bang view of cosmology? Or, in regards to the CRT, could you see public schools being totally open to a debate and teaching that "the U.S. is an evil white supremacist country", and also on the flip side teach that "white supremacy is a GOOD thing" and "let's debate the good aspects of white nationalism"? Or do they teach both the view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are acceptable lifestyles" and the opposite view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are deviant, sinful lifestyles and forms of mental illness"?

What actually ends up happening 99% of the time is that you choose one side of every important issue, and teach that view to the students. What really needs to happen is that you break the monopoly of the Marxist-controlled government public schools...and allow parents more choice in where their children go to school and what they are taught...instead of the current situation where they are forced (via taxation) to fund the government schools that are pushing a far Left Marxist/atheist/anti-Christian agenda.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
PackFansXL
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Quote:

What really needs to happen is that you break the monopoly of the Marxist-controlled government public schools...and allow parents more choice in where their children go to school and what they are taught...instead of the current situation where they are forced (via taxation) to fund the government schools that are pushing a far Left Marxist/atheist/anti-Christian agenda.
I completely agree with this and it would be consistent with the ideas utilized by our Founders. Stop forcing leftist ideas, that never stabilize but continually push to greater extremes, down the throats of all our children, but give parents total control and freedom of choice for schools. Not everyone can afford private school tuition. It's such a bizarre culture we live in where a woman can choose to kill her unborn child but can't choose what ideas or when those ideas are introduced to her birthed children.
caryking
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GuerrillaPack said:

PackFansXL said:

IseWolf22 said:



Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or de-platformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.

I agree with this in principle. Finding school leaders willing to approach things this way seems far less likely in our currently polarized environment.
It sounds good in principle to have an open debate on all issues. But it's just not how the world works. Could you see public schools, for instance, teaching both the flat earth & Biblical fundamentalist view of cosmology and the globe/heliocentric/Big_Bang view of cosmology? Or, in regards to the CRT, could you see public schools being totally open to a debate and teaching that "the U.S. is an evil white supremacist country", and also on the flip side teach that "white supremacy is a GOOD thing" and "let's debate the good aspects of white nationalism"? Or do they teach both the view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are acceptable lifestyles" and the opposite view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are deviant, sinful lifestyles and forms of mental illness"?

What actually ends up happening 99% of the time is that you choose one side of every important issue, and teach that view to the students. What really needs to happen is that you break the monopoly of the Marxist-controlled government public schools...and allow parents more choice in where their children go to school and what they are taught...instead of the current situation where they are forced (via taxation) to fund the government schools that are pushing a far Left Marxist/atheist/anti-Christian agenda.


Isle, please respond to GP on his examples

CRT you a not critical thinking and not based on fact! It's a diatribe that shouldn't be exposed to the masses unless people want to research outside of our education system.

Unfortunately, the education system is so full of people that love to bring up outlandish thoughts, ideas, and things that are far from truth! These people have taken root in our government, at all levels, and they are warping the minds of our youth (my bet is that you were warped as well).
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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PackFansXL said:

IseWolf22 said:



Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or de-platformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.

I agree with this in principle. Finding school leaders willing to approach things this way seems far less likely in our currently polarized environment.


The polarization has happened by the left! They bring these crazy people to the table, legitimize them, and then push it on everyone else!

People start seeing what's happening and push back on the leftest orthodoxy. These people are then touted as being unreasonable and not open to discussing ideas.

These issues are not ideas based on anything! These are made up ideas from a Marxist mindset! We shouldn't legitimize these people! They are loons!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
IseWolf22
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pineknollshoresking said:

GuerrillaPack said:

PackFansXL said:

IseWolf22 said:



Whenever a conservative person or idea is censored or de-platformed, the justification is, "We don't want to legitimize it. The debate is not worth having."

Virtually nothing should be banned from discussion. The marketplace of ideas includes bad ones. As the article points out we still learn about communism in school.

The emphasis in school should be on open discussion and critical examination of ideas in a thoughtful and non-adversarial way. But I see very few people arguing for this. It's mostly each side trying to impose their views and justifying it with whataboutism on the other side.

I agree with this in principle. Finding school leaders willing to approach things this way seems far less likely in our currently polarized environment.
It sounds good in principle to have an open debate on all issues. But it's just not how the world works. Could you see public schools, for instance, teaching both the flat earth & Biblical fundamentalist view of cosmology and the globe/heliocentric/Big_Bang view of cosmology? Or, in regards to the CRT, could you see public schools being totally open to a debate and teaching that "the U.S. is an evil white supremacist country", and also on the flip side teach that "white supremacy is a GOOD thing" and "let's debate the good aspects of white nationalism"? Or do they teach both the view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are acceptable lifestyles" and the opposite view that "homosexuality and transgenderism are deviant, sinful lifestyles and forms of mental illness"?

What actually ends up happening 99% of the time is that you choose one side of every important issue, and teach that view to the students. What really needs to happen is that you break the monopoly of the Marxist-controlled government public schools...and allow parents more choice in where their children go to school and what they are taught...instead of the current situation where they are forced (via taxation) to fund the government schools that are pushing a far Left Marxist/atheist/anti-Christian agenda.


Isle, please respond to GP on his examples

CRT you a not critical thinking and not based on fact! It's a diatribe that shouldn't be exposed to the masses unless people want to research outside of our education system.

Unfortunately, the education system is so full of people that love to bring up outlandish thoughts, ideas, and things that are far from truth! These people have taken root in our government, at all levels, and they are warping the minds of our youth (my bet is that you were warped as well).


I 100% support school choice and backpack funding.

Other than that I'm not going to wade into homosexuality being a "deviant lifestyle" or teaching something observably untrue (flat earthism). It's not going to be something we will ever agree on and will not be productive or a good use of time.

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