So, what are your thoughts on these 4 women who are members of the house of representatives? I am sure this should be an interesting topic that I hope will not turn dirty and nasty. So, have at it. Speak your mind on these 4 ladies and what you think they stand for or how you feel about what they say.

I like that they're not tepid and scared of Trump like others seem to be.

I think they need to be more measured in their responses, especially in situations where they feel like they're being attacked.

It's weird (I guess not) that AOC is already so hated and they talk down to the fact that she worked I. The service industry. If you watch any of her congressional questions she is fantastic, asking pointed questions, working to fight government waste and sweetheart deals.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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So, what are your thoughts on these 4 women who are members of the house of representatives? I am sure this should be an interesting topic that I hope will not turn dirty and nasty. So, have at it. Speak your mind on these 4 ladies and what you think they stand for or how you feel about what they say.

---

I disagree with them on 95% of the issues. I find the amount of media attention they command, especially AOC. In general I think they are mostly going to be a counterproductive piece of the democratic party. Attacking/primarying moderates and voting against leadership.

But I still think Trump's attack on them yesterday was terrible and probably racist.

statefan91 said:

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I like that they're not tepid and scared of Trump like others seem to be.

I think they need to be more measured in their responses, especially in situations where they feel like they're being attacked.

It's weird (I guess not) that AOC is already so hated and they talk down to the fact that she worked I. The service industry. If you watch any of her congressional questions she is fantastic, asking pointed questions, working to fight government waste and sweetheart deals.

---

I agree about the more measured in their responses. The squad along with Pelosi and the democratic house need to get on the same page. It is crucial that they take the WH, the Senate and keep control of the house. If they keep this up the "House" will divide itself.

With turtle man refusing to even bring any bills before the senate floor it can only get worse

For those that dislike AOC - have you had a chance to watch any of the congressional meetings she's been apart of? You may not like her style, but if you were interested in someone who is fighting for the government to not be ripped off by big corporations you might find you like her.

RE: calling Border Patrol "Nazi's" etc - based on the reports of conditions and i humane treatment of immigrants, along with the deaths, and the ~1/3 of Border Patrol in a FB group sharing memes about how funny it is to mistreat immigrants ? You know concentration camps aren't the same as death camps, right?

statefan91 said:

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For those that dislike AOC - have you had a chance to watch any of the congressional meetings she's been apart of? You may not like her style, but if you were interested in someone who is fighting for the government to not be ripped off by big corporations you might find you like her.

RE: calling Border Patrol "Nazi's" etc - based on the reports of conditions and i humane treatment of immigrants, along with the deaths, and the ~1/3 of Border Patrol in a FB group sharing memes about how funny it is to mistreat immigrants ? You know concentration camps aren't the same as death camps, right?

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You may be a supporter but a lot for her sayings are uncalled for. Have been since the day she was elected

Do you mind if I ask what things you're referencing? I'm sure there's plenty but I tune them out.

statefan91 said:

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Do you mind if I ask what things you're referencing? I'm sure there's plenty but I tune them out.

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Most recently the one about drinking from toilets. She ranted and raves about that and never provided any evidence to confirm it. She also rants and raves about conditions but unlike her 14 page green new deal crap, she has yet to come up with a proposal for fixing the issues at the boarder. The petty name calling she does is just like trump. She screams and yells from the rooftops and most of the time, has no idea what she is saying. Hell, she called Nancy Pelosi a racist and as much as I don't like Pelosi, that couldn't be further from the truth. To me, she is a problem as a whole, along with her other "squad" members that will eventually come to a head and blow up in the faces of all involved. That press conference yesterday was an absolute joke and one the Dems hated to see just as much as the Republicans.

You know that the members of Congress were not permitted to take in their cell phones or take pictures, correct?

I'm not sure how she is supposed to prove what one of the migrants told her inside the facility? Please let me know your thoughts on how she would do that.

In the meantime, I think it's good to bring attention to a continuing humanitarian disaster at the border. This report is pretty damning by the internal watchdog - - https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf

statefan91 said:

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You know that the members of Congress were not permitted to take in their cell phones or take pictures, correct?

I'm not sure how she is supposed to prove what one of the migrants told her inside the facility? Please let me know your thoughts on how she would do that.

In the meantime, I think it's good to bring attention to a continuing humanitarian disaster at the border. This report is pretty damning by the internal watchdog - - https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf

---

And one congressman just so happen to sneak his in, against the rules and laws and took pictures but some how there were no pictures describing what she claimed. I get it. You like her and you support most of what she does. That's fine, no issues there. I don't support her or any of her "squad" members just as I don't support Donald Trump. I see it for what it is. Two sides trying their level best to stir up as much distaine as possible for the other group. And as for the "squad", Talib yelling racism is rich seeing as she called Doug Collins from Georgia a racist in a committee hearing earlier this year.

Edited to add. If the problem is so bad at the boarder, where are AOC and "the squad" in helping with this? They are nowhere, just as every other politician. They simply want to make it a campaign talking point and never solve a thing.

I guess I don't understand what you want her / them specifically to do about it? They didn't vote for the recent funding package because there were no controls around oversight or improvement of the conditions at the border. Controls and oversight would likely help a lot of what's happening at the border.

The Trump administration's policies on extreme reduction for asylum seekers and family separation is what is causing the overcrowding of the sites. I don't think there's anything these 4 congresswomen can do about the policies put in place by the Trump administration.

statefan91 said:

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I guess I don't understand what you want her / them specifically to do about it? They didn't vote for the recent funding package because there were no controls around oversight or improvement of the conditions at the border. Controls and oversight would likely help a lot of what's happening at the border.

The Trump administration's policies on extreme reduction for asylum seekers and family separation is what is causing the overcrowding of the sites. I don't think there's anything these 4 congresswomen can do about the policies put in place by the Trump administration.

---

They can scream and yell about the problem but haven't so much as offered a bill that they think could help. As to the seperation of families comment and other talking points politicians use. If you break the law, there are consequences. Now, if you believe that all these thousands and thousands and thousands of people are coming here to seek asylum, then I can't change your mind on that. Family seperation happens every single day in this country because of people breaking the law. That is exactly what these people have done. Come over the boarder illegally. Maybe if "the squad" would actually present something to possibly help with the issue, I would take them more seriously. Until then, they are just like any other politician. They are fake and will say whatever it takes to upset and rile up their base against the other side. It's the constant back and forth that never ends and never benefits the citizens of the US.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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They can scream and yell about the problem but haven't so much as offered a bill that they think could help. As to the seperation of families comment and other talking points politicians use. If you break the law, there are consequences. Now, if you believe that all these thousands and thousands and thousands of people are coming here to seek asylum, then I can't change your mind on that. Family seperation happens every single day in this country because of people breaking the law. That is exactly what these people have done. Come over the boarder illegally. Maybe if "the squad" would actually present something to possibly help with the issue, I would take them more seriously. Until then, they are just like any other politician. They are fake and will say whatever it takes to upset and rile up their base against the other side. It's the constant back and forth that never ends and never benefits the citizens of the US.

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Agree to disagree - I don't think they're fake. I think they speak from the perspective of a minority and someone invested in the equal treatment of people as people, even if they're immigrants. As mentioned, it wasn't until the Trump administration instituted a 'zero-tolerance' policy that this crisis at the border presented itself.

Historically, border crossings were treated as a civil offense. You're welcome to think about these immigrants as who are breaking the law with no regard. I see them as people desperate to escape violence and find a better life. I can't say whether all the people coming here are seeking asylum, but I'd rather err on the side of vetting people and letting them in than turning them away.

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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They can scream and yell about the problem but haven't so much as offered a bill that they think could help. As to the seperation of families comment and other talking points politicians use. If you break the law, there are consequences. Now, if you believe that all these thousands and thousands and thousands of people are coming here to seek asylum, then I can't change your mind on that. Family seperation happens every single day in this country because of people breaking the law. That is exactly what these people have done. Come over the boarder illegally. Maybe if "the squad" would actually present something to possibly help with the issue, I would take them more seriously. Until then, they are just like any other politician. They are fake and will say whatever it takes to upset and rile up their base against the other side. It's the constant back and forth that never ends and never benefits the citizens of the US.

---

Agree to disagree - I don't think they're fake. I think they speak from the perspective of a minority and someone invested in the equal treatment of people as people, even if they're immigrants. As mentioned, it wasn't until the Trump administration instituted a 'zero-tolerance' policy that this crisis at the border presented itself.

Historically, border crossings were treated as a civil offense. You're welcome to think about these immigrants as who are breaking the law with no regard. I see them as people desperate to escape violence and find a better life. I can't say whether all the people coming here are seeking asylum, but I'd rather err on the side of vetting people and letting them in than turning them away.

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Letting them in by being cautious is a main reason we have the problem we have now, but I agree, we agree to disagree.

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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They can scream and yell about the problem but haven't so much as offered a bill that they think could help. As to the seperation of families comment and other talking points politicians use. If you break the law, there are consequences. Now, if you believe that all these thousands and thousands and thousands of people are coming here to seek asylum, then I can't change your mind on that. Family seperation happens every single day in this country because of people breaking the law. That is exactly what these people have done. Come over the boarder illegally. Maybe if "the squad" would actually present something to possibly help with the issue, I would take them more seriously. Until then, they are just like any other politician. They are fake and will say whatever it takes to upset and rile up their base against the other side. It's the constant back and forth that never ends and never benefits the citizens of the US.

---

Agree to disagree - I don't think they're fake. I think they speak from the perspective of a minority and someone invested in the equal treatment of people as people, even if they're immigrants. As mentioned, it wasn't until the Trump administration instituted a 'zero-tolerance' policy that this crisis at the border presented itself.

Historically, border crossings were treated as a civil offense. You're welcome to think about these immigrants as who are breaking the law with no regard. I see them as people desperate to escape violence and find a better life. I can't say whether all the people coming here are seeking asylum, but I'd rather err on the side of vetting people and letting them in than turning them away.

---

The asylum system wasn't originally intended for people who were fleeing general poor conditions in their country. It was meant for people who were being persecuted by their government. In many of the countries we are currently getting asylum seekers from, conditions have actually been improving for years. There have been some articles and papers that argue that the surge in migration from these countries is a result of economic conditions improving just enough that a migrant can reasonably save up the cost of transportation to get to the border. As such, these authors generally expect the surge in asylum seekers to continue unabated in the near term.

The biggest problem with asylum right now is there is no where near enough judges, lawyers, etc. to begin to process everyone. Cases get dragged on for years. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what the solution is. I heavily sympathize with the violence people are leaving and I can't fault anyone who thinks they are doing better by their kids by getting to the US. In general, I'd love legal immigration numbers to be massively increased, with guest worker programs as well. Vigorously enforce E-verify and the vast majority of immigrants will be documented. That said, the more we expand the welfare state (Medicare for All), the more we incentive migration. If Democrats do enact a massive entitlement like that, which covers illegal aliens, the system will become massively expensive.

There will never be Medicare for all. Should it be available to more? Yes. Any democrat that runs strictly on that will lose. Most all the candidates are back tracking on Medicare for all.

IseWolf22 said:

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The biggest problem with asylum right now is there is no where near enough judges, lawyers, etc. to begin to process everyone. Cases get dragged on for years. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what the solution is. I heavily sympathize with the violence people are leaving and I can't fault anyone who thinks they are doing better by their kids by getting to the US. In general, I'd love legal immigration numbers to be massively increased, with guest worker programs as well. Vigorously enforce E-verify and the vast majority of immigrants will be documented. That said, the more we expand the welfare state (Medicare for All), the more we incentive migration. If Democrats do enact a massive entitlement like that, which covers illegal aliens, the system will become massively expensive.

---

Agree with all of this - right now the admin is enacting zero-tolerance but not really doing much about the case load of judges / availability of lawyers so there is a huge crisis of people that are being held at the border and separated from families, causing an even bigger problem.

Anyone who is against illegal immigration is kidding themselves if they think our country can run without them. The amount of labor jobs that are out there being filled by immigrants (legal and illegal) is astounding, and if the employment numbers are as low as Trump likes to brag they are, we need all the workers we can get.

statefan91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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The biggest problem with asylum right now is there is no where near enough judges, lawyers, etc. to begin to process everyone. Cases get dragged on for years. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what the solution is. I heavily sympathize with the violence people are leaving and I can't fault anyone who thinks they are doing better by their kids by getting to the US. In general, I'd love legal immigration numbers to be massively increased, with guest worker programs as well. Vigorously enforce E-verify and the vast majority of immigrants will be documented. That said, the more we expand the welfare state (Medicare for All), the more we incentive migration. If Democrats do enact a massive entitlement like that, which covers illegal aliens, the system will become massively expensive.

---

Agree with all of this - right now the admin is enacting zero-tolerance but not really doing much about the case load of judges / availability of lawyers so there is a huge crisis of people that are being held at the border and separated from families, causing an even bigger problem.

Anyone who is against illegal immigration is kidding themselves if they think our country can run without them. The amount of labor jobs that are out there being filled by immigrants (legal and illegal) is astounding, and if the employment numbers are as low as Trump likes to brag they are, we need all the workers we can get.

---

I'm not kidding myself. I AM against illegal immigration. Period and end of story. I don't care what country they come from. This country can run on a lot and LEGAL immigration is something that always helps. I will never be in favor of illegal immigration regardless of what it does or doesn't do to the economy. Back to the topic at hand. If judges are the issue or one of them, and I agree the lack of judges is a huge problem, then why doesn't "the squad" propose a solution to the issue instead of telling and screaming about border patrol and still offering ZERO in regards to a solution?

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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The biggest problem with asylum right now is there is no where near enough judges, lawyers, etc. to begin to process everyone. Cases get dragged on for years. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what the solution is. I heavily sympathize with the violence people are leaving and I can't fault anyone who thinks they are doing better by their kids by getting to the US. In general, I'd love legal immigration numbers to be massively increased, with guest worker programs as well. Vigorously enforce E-verify and the vast majority of immigrants will be documented. That said, the more we expand the welfare state (Medicare for All), the more we incentive migration. If Democrats do enact a massive entitlement like that, which covers illegal aliens, the system will become massively expensive.

---

Agree with all of this - right now the admin is enacting zero-tolerance but not really doing much about the case load of judges / availability of lawyers so there is a huge crisis of people that are being held at the border and separated from families, causing an even bigger problem.

Anyone who is against illegal immigration is kidding themselves if they think our country can run without them. The amount of labor jobs that are out there being filled by immigrants (legal and illegal) is astounding, and if the employment numbers are as low as Trump likes to brag they are, we need all the workers we can get.

---

I'm not kidding myself. I AM against illegal immigration. Period and end of story. I don't care what country they come from. This country can run on a lot and LEGAL immigration is something that always helps. I will never be in favor of illegal immigration regardless of what it does or doesn't do to the economy. Back to the topic at hand. If judges are the issue or one of them, and I agree the lack of judges is a huge problem, then why doesn't "the squad" propose a solution to the issue instead of telling and screaming about border patrol and still offering ZERO in regards to a solution?

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In general they seem to favor treating immigration like a humanitarian issue, caring for everyone and allowing all to stay. That's their solution. Open border pretty much from what I can tell.
The problem, like most in the US is polarization. You have some on the left advocating completely open borders with generous welfare benefits. Then you have Xenophobes on the right irrationally afraid of immigrants taking their jobs (Or just more minorities getting in).
Most American's and politicians are somewhere in between that, but the wingnuts get all the air time

I think this thread is turning away from the question around "The Squad"

In regards to them, I think it's unbelievable that more Republicans haven't stood up to say that language such as "go back where you came from" is unacceptable. Especially considering that all of them are US citizens and Omar has basically lived the American Dream to become a member of Congress after starting her time in the US as a refugee.

I also don't buy the "if you don't like it, leave" rhetoric. The whole point of running to be in government is so you can enact the change you feel is necessary for the country. Donald Trump himself ran on "Make America Great Again" - meaning he "didn't like it." Using his logic he should've just left instead of running for office and changing things.

statefan91 said:

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I think this thread is turning away from the question around "The Squad"

In regards to them, I think it's unbelievable that more Republicans haven't stood up to say that language such as "go back where you came from" is unacceptable. Especially considering that all of them are US citizens and Omar has basically lived the American Dream to become a member of Congress after starting her time in the US as a refugee.

I also don't buy the "if you don't like it, leave" rhetoric. The whole point of running to be in government is so you can enact the change you feel is necessary for the country. Donald Trump himself ran on "Make America Great Again" - meaning he "didn't like it." Using his logic he should've just left instead of running for office and changing things.

---

I also find it unbelievable that most Democrats won't condemn what members of "The Squad" have said in the past about Israel, border patrol, Donald Trump, 9-11, etc, etc. It goes both ways and I see it from both sides. I'm not worried about calling it out on both sides. It goes right back to the faux outrage from Pelosi and the Dems right now and the faux outrage from trump and the Republicans from before. Whatever Pelosi says now about what trump said is worthless when she didn't have the guts to call our Omar for her racist, bigoted, and anti-Semitic remarks. Just as whatever trump says about what any of them say is crap because he goes and runs off at the mouth as well.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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I think this thread is turning away from the question around "The Squad"

In regards to them, I think it's unbelievable that more Republicans haven't stood up to say that language such as "go back where you came from" is unacceptable. Especially considering that all of them are US citizens and Omar has basically lived the American Dream to become a member of Congress after starting her time in the US as a refugee.

I also don't buy the "if you don't like it, leave" rhetoric. The whole point of running to be in government is so you can enact the change you feel is necessary for the country. Donald Trump himself ran on "Make America Great Again" - meaning he "didn't like it." Using his logic he should've just left instead of running for office and changing things.

---

I also find it unbelievable that most Democrats won't condemn what members of "The Squad" have said in the past about Israel, border patrol, Donald Trump, 9-11, etc, etc. It goes both ways and I see it from both sides. I'm not worried about calling it out on both sides. It goes right back to the faux outrage from Pelosi and the Dems right now and the faux outrage from trump and the Republicans from before. Whatever Pelosi says now about what trump said is worthless when she didn't have the guts to call our Omar for her racist, bigoted, and anti-Semitic remarks. Just as whatever trump says about what any of them say is crap because he goes and runs off at the mouth as well.

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Ok

JeffreyDurkin said:

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I have no problem saying Trump is an idiot. I'm a Republican and I support a lot of his ideas such as trade with China, NATO members paying their dues, reducing corporate taxes and yes - enforcing illegal immigration. He just has the temperament and vocabulary of a spoiled teenager that I cant stand.

That being said, you HAVE to be kidding me by saying Trump caused the immigration problem with his zero tolerance stance. Presidents for decades have talked about stopping illegal immigration including Clinton and Obama. This crisis was caused by Democrats creating "Sanctuary Cities" and promises of free health care and other free government assistance. You don't find it odd that the caravans have swelled to uncontrollable masses once Democrats started strongly pushing these ideas?

The desire for uncontrolled borders is unfathomable to me. Nobody on the right is calling for an end to immigration, just an end to illegal immigration. Yet the desire for that is somehow "racist" and a call for "white supremacy"

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I have yet to see one person in Congress call for open borders, yet I see multiple posts saying this is true. This situation at the border has been caused by decades of kicking immigration policy down the road, not Trump and not the current Democrats. Along with myriad other issues such as people legitimately fleeing despots and wars. Trump has fanned the flames for sure and his inhumane policies have grabbed the spotlight, but can't be pinned just on his administration. Blaming one individual (or party) is complete lunacy.

GuerrillaPack said:

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AOC is a communist, and she wants total open borders. She literally believes that ICE should be abolished, and no one should ever be deported. Just infinite millions of illegals invading and conquering the USA for communism. She is an enemy of this nation. She and those like her should be tried for treason.

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Prove it.

PackBacker07 said:

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JeffreyDurkin said:

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I have no problem saying Trump is an idiot. I'm a Republican and I support a lot of his ideas such as trade with China, NATO members paying their dues, reducing corporate taxes and yes - enforcing illegal immigration. He just has the temperament and vocabulary of a spoiled teenager that I cant stand.

That being said, you HAVE to be kidding me by saying Trump caused the immigration problem with his zero tolerance stance. Presidents for decades have talked about stopping illegal immigration including Clinton and Obama. This crisis was caused by Democrats creating "Sanctuary Cities" and promises of free health care and other free government assistance. You don't find it odd that the caravans have swelled to uncontrollable masses once Democrats started strongly pushing these ideas?

The desire for uncontrolled borders is unfathomable to me. Nobody on the right is calling for an end to immigration, just an end to illegal immigration. Yet the desire for that is somehow "racist" and a call for "white supremacy"

---

I have yet to see one person in Congress call for open borders, yet I see multiple posts saying this is true. This situation at the border has been caused by decades of kicking immigration policy down the road, not Trump and not the current Democrats. Along with myriad other issues such as people legitimately fleeing despots and wars. Trump has fanned the flames for sure and his inhumane policies have grabbed the spotlight, but can't be pinned just on his administration. Blaming one individual (or party) is complete lunacy.

---

Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

JeffreyDurkin said:

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Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

---

2016 - 2018 the Republican party had the Presidency and majorities in the Senate and House. Weird that immigration wasn't dealt with easily during that time period. That seems to align with your timeline of when this became a much bigger problem, feels like they had ample time to pass legislation to deal with in whatever strategic way they saw fit.

Edit: I hope the above doesn't come across snarky, I truly don't mean it to. However, Republicans had full control for the past two years and I don't think they came close to passing any immigration reform legislation but please correct me if I'm wrong.

statefan91 said:

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JeffreyDurkin said:

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Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

---

2016 - 2018 the Republican party had the Presidency and majorities in the Senate and House. Weird that immigration wasn't dealt with easily during that time period. That seems to align with your timeline of when this became a much bigger problem, feels like they had ample time to pass legislation to deal with in whatever strategic way they saw fit.

Edit: I hope the above doesn't come across snarky, I truly don't mean it to. However, Republicans had full control for the past two years and I don't think they came close to passing any immigration reform legislation but please correct me if I'm wrong.

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And Dems had control during Obama? Fact remains, neither party has done a damn thing. I get you are not a fan of any Republican and I am not a fan of either party, but at least call a spade a spade when it comes to this topic.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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JeffreyDurkin said:

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Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

---

2016 - 2018 the Republican party had the Presidency and majorities in the Senate and House. Weird that immigration wasn't dealt with easily during that time period. That seems to align with your timeline of when this became a much bigger problem, feels like they had ample time to pass legislation to deal with in whatever strategic way they saw fit.

Edit: I hope the above doesn't come across snarky, I truly don't mean it to. However, Republicans had full control for the past two years and I don't think they came close to passing any immigration reform legislation but please correct me if I'm wrong.

---

And Dems had control during Obama? Fact remains, neither party has done a damn thing. I get you are not a fan of any Republican and I am not a fan of either party, but at least call a spade a spade when it comes to this topic.

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Ok

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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JeffreyDurkin said:

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Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

---

2016 - 2018 the Republican party had the Presidency and majorities in the Senate and House. Weird that immigration wasn't dealt with easily during that time period. That seems to align with your timeline of when this became a much bigger problem, feels like they had ample time to pass legislation to deal with in whatever strategic way they saw fit.

Edit: I hope the above doesn't come across snarky, I truly don't mean it to. However, Republicans had full control for the past two years and I don't think they came close to passing any immigration reform legislation but please correct me if I'm wrong.

---

And Dems had control during Obama? Fact remains, neither party has done a damn thing. I get you are not a fan of any Republican and I am not a fan of either party, but at least call a spade a spade when it comes to this topic.

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Ok

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At least be original. I mean, you tried to blame it all on one party when it's obviously both. Just call it both ways

Pretty sure that AOC is proving it for him

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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statefan91 said:

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JeffreyDurkin said:

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Okay - they have not specifically called for open borders. But, Democrats have created sanctuary cities. They have been openly hostile towards ICE and have called for the elimination of the department. They have given out information to illegal immigrants on how to avoid being deported. They have refused to help with a solution and instead attack the administration as being racist for wanting strong immigration control.

I agree with you that the problem has been building based off of decades of inaction on both sides. But at least Trump is trying to solve the problem and is having to fight the Democrats to get any resolution. Also, the problem has significantly increased in the past 2 years as Democrats have fought him and made promises on sanctuary and free government assistance for illegals. You seriously cannot act like there is not a correlation.

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2016 - 2018 the Republican party had the Presidency and majorities in the Senate and House. Weird that immigration wasn't dealt with easily during that time period. That seems to align with your timeline of when this became a much bigger problem, feels like they had ample time to pass legislation to deal with in whatever strategic way they saw fit.

Edit: I hope the above doesn't come across snarky, I truly don't mean it to. However, Republicans had full control for the past two years and I don't think they came close to passing any immigration reform legislation but please correct me if I'm wrong.

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And Dems had control during Obama? Fact remains, neither party has done a damn thing. I get you are not a fan of any Republican and I am not a fan of either party, but at least call a spade a spade when it comes to this topic.

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Ok

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At least be original. I mean, you tried to blame it all on one party when it's obviously both. Just call it both ways

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JD was rebutting something I posted so I asked a serious question about if this has always been a crisis, why didn't the Republicans fix it during the past two years when they had complete control of all chambers? I don't think that's an outlandish question.

It is also not outlandish to claim that the CURRENT iteration of the crisis is able to be blamed on the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policies. They implemented the policy without assessing the impact of it on the facilities, judges, lawyers, social workers, border agents, and additional government infrastructure. The zero-tolerance policy has caused a surge of people to be held at the border without having the infrastructure in place to house them / send them back / process their asylum cases / feed them / etc.

My job is not to make sure I cover your stance that all politicians suck and are terrible and are only doing it for theatrics. I don't think think that's the case, and I've previously stated multiple times that even if you disagree with the methods of people like AOC, if you watch congressional hearings she's a part of, she is clearly working for the betterment of citizens by taking on pharmaceutical companies and government waste.

statefan91 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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At least be original. I mean, you tried to blame it all on one party when it's obviously both. Just call it both ways

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JD was rebutting something I posted so I asked a serious question about if this has always been a crisis, why didn't the Republicans fix it during the past two years when they had complete control of all chambers? I don't think that's an outlandish question.

It is also not outlandish to claim that the CURRENT iteration of the crisis is able to be blamed on the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policies. They implemented the policy without assessing the impact of it on the facilities, judges, lawyers, social workers, border agents, and additional government infrastructure. The zero-tolerance policy has caused a surge of people to be held at the border without having the infrastructure in place to house them / send them back / process their asylum cases / feed them / etc.

My job is not to make sure I cover your stance that all politicians suck and are terrible and are only doing it for theatrics. I don't think think that's the case, and I've previously stated multiple times that even if you disagree with the methods of people like AOC, if you watch congressional hearings she's a part of, she is clearly working for the betterment of citizens by taking on pharmaceutical companies and government waste.

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The #1 reason for the crisis is external economic forces that led to a massive surge in migrant families these past few years. The last time we had large numbers of illegal immigrants, they were mostly single, Mexican men, crossing the border in search of work. They weren't claiming asylum. Now we have mostly families coming, primarily from central america although there have been multiple cases of even Africans flying to central american countries and joining the caravans.

Neither party has ever gotten their s*&t together to form a coalition on immigration reform. We need to reach some type of national deal on border security, Country quotas, family reunification, asylum criteria, and H1B numbers. All of these are intertwined. The Obama administration would have been a great time to hamer out a deal due to migration decreasing each year he was in office and a recovering economy. Unfortunately the wingnuts derailed every attempt moderates made at forging a deal.

Now, I will also concede that the Trump administration has massively failed at crisis mitigation. The condition of detention centers for migrant children is abhorrent. We can do better by children. No arguments, we can do better. His focus on making getting into the US so miserable that people don't come has been a failure that has done nothing to stem the tide, while being a black mark on the ethics of the nation.