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IPS TAKE: NC State Snubbed By NCAA Selection Committee

May 31, 2022
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In this feature we discuss NC State being left out of the 2022 NCAA Baseball Tournament and much more!
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IPS TAKE: NC State Snubbed By NCAA Selection Committee

4,949 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Tom OBriens Smile
packofwolves
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11:45a, 5/31/22
I will probably get toasted for thisโ€ฆ.

I don't have a free hour to listen to this podcast. Are you planning to write an article that we can read in 5-10 minutes?
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Wbtaylor
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12:20p, 5/31/22
I'll summarize. Ethan shares the sentiment of every State fan out there and James is playing devils advocate to provide an alternate view I guess. He does say eventually State should have made it but also says they should have done more. I guess you could say that about every team that doesn't go undefeated. Ultimately he says there is always a team that gets left out. We all know this isn't the same as every bubble team we've ever seen left out.
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TraCha4
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1:01p, 5/31/22
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
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Bas2020
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In reply to TraCha4 • 1:10p, 5/31/22
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
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Wbtaylor
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In reply to TraCha4 • 1:18p, 5/31/22
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.


If we win 1 of the games we lost versus UNC our ACC resumes are flip flopped. That's how similar our records were. Yet they are a host (almost a top 8 seed) and we are out. No way you can tell me this was justified. Someone please find me a scenario where a team that was a consensus 2 seed was left out of the tourney and then We can talk.
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TraCha4
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In reply to Bas2020 • 1:27p, 5/31/22
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.


Nowhere did I say State didn't warrant to be in. My point was exactly what I said. Bullpen was terrible. Cost us some wins in key games that we were up late. We finish those games and State is never even in discussions of making the tournament. Again, we were up late in several of these games and didn't finish.
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James Henderson
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In reply to Bas2020 • 1:30p, 5/31/22
Staff
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.
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Bas2020
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In reply to James Henderson • 1:36p, 5/31/22
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.


When you literally have dozens of unbiased baseball writers and coaches of other teams pointing out that we got screwed whey are we sitting here trying to justify it? We don't always have to play devils advocate . Hell we have fans of rival schools even pointing it out.

You often argue why do our owns fans try to go out of their way to diminish NC State success' in certain sports... this is a similar take.

NC State should not have to "clear the bar" by 3 feet when everyone else is ok barely getting over by an inch. Why the hell do we have to go above and beyond everybody else in order to be treated fairly.

Again, just mo but this committee probably set the field on Thursday or Friday and did not want to budge. The victories over Wake, Pitt and Miami were essentially meaningless. The tournament mattered for UNC but not NC State. The RPI mattered for ECU, but not NC State.

You can NOT change criteria based upon what team you are discussing. All teams should have the same criteria. IF nothing else go to a NET or BCS type system that accurately gives you the best at large field fairly .

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WlfpckFtbll
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In reply to Bas2020 • 2:46p, 5/31/22
Bas2020 said:
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.


When you literally have dozens of unbiased baseball writers and coaches of other teams pointing out that we got screwed whey are we sitting here trying to justify it? We don't always have to play devils advocate . Hell we have fans of rival schools even pointing it out.

You often argue why do our owns fans try to go out of their way to diminish NC State success' in certain sports... this is a similar take.

NC State should not have to "clear the bar" by 3 feet when everyone else is ok barely getting over by an inch. Why the hell do we have to go above and beyond everybody else in order to be treated fairly.

Again, just mo but this committee probably set the field on Thursday or Friday and did not want to budge. The victories over Wake, Pitt and Miami were essentially meaningless. The tournament mattered for UNC but not NC State. The RPI mattered for ECU, but not NC State.

You can NOT change criteria based upon what team you are discussing. All teams should have the same criteria. IF nothing else go to a NET or BCS type system that accurately gives you the best at large field fairly .

My biggest complaint has and will continue to be using random, continuously changing "representatives" that likely know little about the sport and that do not use an established method for being consistent in their choices.

I'd say at the very least they should announce at the beginning of the year what they will prioritize during their comparison of teams that year but even that is flawed because, for example, teams would not have an opportunity to adjust their OOC schedules.

It is just hilarious / infuriating how little effort is put into decisions that have multi-million dollar impacts on programs / universities.
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James Henderson
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In reply to Bas2020 • 10:43p, 5/31/22
Staff
Bas2020 said:
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.


When you literally have dozens of unbiased baseball writers and coaches of other teams pointing out that we got screwed whey are we sitting here trying to justify it? We don't always have to play devils advocate . Hell we have fans of rival schools even pointing it out.

You often argue why do our owns fans try to go out of their way to diminish NC State success' in certain sports... this is a similar take.

NC State should not have to "clear the bar" by 3 feet when everyone else is ok barely getting over by an inch. Why the hell do we have to go above and beyond everybody else in order to be treated fairly.

Again, just mo but this committee probably set the field on Thursday or Friday and did not want to budge. The victories over Wake, Pitt and Miami were essentially meaningless. The tournament mattered for UNC but not NC State. The RPI mattered for ECU, but not NC State.

You can NOT change criteria based upon what team you are discussing. All teams should have the same criteria. IF nothing else go to a NET or BCS type system that accurately gives you the best at large field fairly .

I've been adamant that NC State was snubbed and should have made the tournament. That's a no-brainer.

I'm not sure how that's the same as NC State fans diminishing NC State's success.

The issue here isn't NC State or the NCAA. It's a flawed selection system for all sports, and in each sport you're going to find teams who feel like they got screwed.
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Packchem91
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In reply to James Henderson • 11:21p, 5/31/22
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.
It is odd....for a guy gets real upset when fans poo-poo the MBB team or question whether (pre-Clemson), State FB was going to win a huge game.....you sure do poo-poo the baseball team. You seem to have a counter view on most fans on Avent and Wes, for some reason.

If our RPI had been back where some of the teams that were picked ahead of us were, you'd have been right to voice every "what if", but when it is 33, it rings very hollow to get panties wadded up on OOC SOS** or other items

**And OOC SOS is something that as a fan of exciting games, I think we should do more on in preseason...but as a metric to keep us out, its absurd.
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ctpack
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3:40p, 6/1/22
Exactly, and RPI accounts for strength of schedule. The nut jobs on the committee used the out of conference strength of schedule as a metric they thought would justify their hose job. With all we lost from last year's squad, it made sense for Elliott to schedule soft early as he developed a young team. You give credit to teams from weak ass conferences for scheduling tough because they have to to get their RPI up since their conference is weak (see ECU, obviously worked for them). Our RPI is high because our conference is a bear. The out of conference strength of schedule is just a convenient metric for them to pick and choose to use when they choose to screw us. Our damn RPI was 33. Inexcusable omission as everyone with any knowledge of the situation has opined. Makes no sense for us Wolfpackers to try to validate the incompetence of the powers that be.
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waxhaw
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In reply to Bas2020 • 10:01p, 6/1/22
Bas2020 said:
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.


When you literally have dozens of unbiased baseball writers and coaches of other teams pointing out that we got screwed whey are we sitting here trying to justify it? We don't always have to play devils advocate . Hell we have fans of rival schools even pointing it out.

You often argue why do our owns fans try to go out of their way to diminish NC State success' in certain sports... this is a similar take.

NC State should not have to "clear the bar" by 3 feet when everyone else is ok barely getting over by an inch. Why the hell do we have to go above and beyond everybody else in order to be treated fairly.

Again, just mo but this committee probably set the field on Thursday or Friday and did not want to budge. The victories over Wake, Pitt and Miami were essentially meaningless. The tournament mattered for UNC but not NC State. The RPI mattered for ECU, but not NC State.

You can NOT change criteria based upon what team you are discussing. All teams should have the same criteria. IF nothing else go to a NET or BCS type system that accurately gives you the best at large field fairly .

Well said.

Baseball teams don't have the revenue that football and basketball teams have to be able to travel around to play anybody and everybody. Especially with mid week games. When you are in a conference like the ACC, getting left out due toyour non conference strength of schedule is a joke. When other conference teams get in for playing those same ACC teams (out of conference), it's an even bigger joke.
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James Henderson
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In reply to Packchem91 • 11:22p, 6/1/22
Staff
Packchem91 said:
James Henderson said:
Bas2020 said:
TraCha4 said:
I hate it as much as anybody that State didn't make it. However, State had opportunity and what you do in the regular season matters. The bullpen was terrible. You can't get swept by Northeastern at home. We should have won 2 out of 3 at Louisville. We had those games won and bullpen had problems finishing. The same goes for UNC series. Then you can't get swept at home by WF the last series of the year.
Im sorry but this is a bull **** take.

NC State did more than enough to warrant a bid. End of story.
I agree but every year in baseball/basketball/football we feel a team has done enough to warrant a bid and they don't get one.

When I say "we" I don't mean NC State fans because we only focus on NC State but in all those sports there is a team where others believe they did enough.
It is odd....for a guy gets real upset when fans poo-poo the MBB team or question whether (pre-Clemson), State FB was going to win a huge game.....you sure do poo-poo the baseball team. You seem to have a counter view on most fans on Avent and Wes, for some reason.

If our RPI had been back where some of the teams that were picked ahead of us were, you'd have been right to voice every "what if", but when it is 33, it rings very hollow to get panties wadded up on OOC SOS** or other items

**And OOC SOS is something that as a fan of exciting games, I think we should do more on in preseason...but as a metric to keep us out, its absurd.
Yeah, me saying if I want anyone to win a title at NC State it's baseball is really showing how much I"m not a fan of the baseball program or Avent.
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James Henderson
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In reply to ctpack • 11:22p, 6/1/22
Staff
ctpack said:
Exactly, and RPI accounts for strength of schedule. The nut jobs on the committee used the out of conference strength of schedule as a metric they thought would justify their hose job. With all we lost from last year's squad, it made sense for Elliott to schedule soft early as he developed a young team. You give credit to teams from weak ass conferences for scheduling tough because they have to to get their RPI up since their conference is weak (see ECU, obviously worked for them). Our RPI is high because our conference is a bear. The out of conference strength of schedule is just a convenient metric for them to pick and choose to use when they choose to screw us. Our damn RPI was 33. Inexcusable omission as everyone with any knowledge of the situation has opined. Makes no sense for us Wolfpackers to try to validate the incompetence of the powers that be.
It seems OOC SOS is used by almost all selection committees. We know it's used in hoops. Fairly certain they use it for the CFP.
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ctpack
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10:00a, 6/3/22
James, I realize OOC schedule is used as a metric, but it is only mentioned when trying to justify why a team was left out, especially when overall strength of schedule is considered in the RPI. It is a subjective metric used by the committee. If our overall strength of schedule was too weak, it should have been accounted for in the RPI. They used it in 2019 to justify leaving us out of the basketball tournament. That team was a legitimate bubble team though. This baseball issue is different, in my opinion. We shouldn't have been considered a bubble team. The lack of representation by the ACC or whoever on the committee allowed them to screw us over, and they just let the committee chairman use the OOC strength of schedule as a metric to attempt to justify it. It's a hose job, no other way to look at it. We definitely struggled down the stretch prior to the tournament, but our performance in Charlotte should have been sufficient to overcome the late season swoon in the regular season. The RPI accounted for that. The ACC performance enhanced seeding for others like our neighbors to the west, but the committee chose to ignore it for us. Hose job, period. I guess we'll have to go undefeated and win the tournament next year.
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Pack87
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11:24a, 6/3/22
Problem with the OOC SOS is that schedules are made prior to the season but the ranking is determined by results. If you schedule teams that should be middle-good and they finish below expectations or if the game gets cancelled due to weather/illness etc. that shouldn't be a negative. The schedule should be graded at the beginning of the year and put into the metric. If you beat the #3 team in week two and they have injuries, etc. and finish out of the tournament it shouldn't effect you negatively.
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SportManagementEngineer
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9:46p, 6/3/22
2 of the 3 teams teams inexplicably in above State

Grand Canyon lost 7-1 to Arkansas
Liberty lost 16-3 to Oklahoma

Ole Miss starts tomorrow.
Twitter: @JJwith2Jays
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Tom OBriens Smile
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In reply to SportManagementEngineer • 2:31a, 6/4/22
Dallas Baptist, though not listed Last 4 In, was also pretty inexplicably ahead of us, spanked 12-5 by LA Tech. Gave up an inside the park grand slam... guess that #1 OOC schedule strength didn't prepare them for the Bulldogs.



Also, here's a fun clip of Wake, a shame they didn't field like this in our home series... lose 7-8 to UCONN, really feel for them!



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matracey
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In reply to Tom OBriens Smile • 9:20a, 6/4/22
Tom OBriens Smile said:
Dallas Baptist, though not listed Last 4 In, was also pretty inexplicably ahead of us, spanked 12-5 by LA Tech. Gave up an inside the park grand slam... guess that #1 OOC schedule strength didn't prepare them for the Bulldogs.



Also, here's a fun clip of Wake, a shame they didn't field like this in our home series... lose 7-8 to UCONN, really feel for them!





Dallas Baptist is a strange team. They swept Southern Miss, swept TCU, won a series against Maryland, and won a game against Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. They also did beat LA Tech earlier in the season 7-4 fwiw. But they lost series against SE Missouri, Wofford, Bradley, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Indiana State but didn't get swept in any of them
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Tom OBriens Smile
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In reply to matracey • 10:37a, 6/4/22
I'm just being snarky, I know they've had some good wins. I'm still annoyed a team like that who should've been playing the MVC Tourney with a sense of urgency given their situation was able to get beat 21-2 by Evansville in one of the games and fall on their face.
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matracey
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In reply to Tom OBriens Smile • 3:36p, 6/4/22
Tom OBriens Smile said:
I'm just being snarky, I know they've had some good wins. I'm still annoyed a team like that who should've been playing the MVC Tourney with a sense of urgency given their situation was able to get beat 21-2 by Evansville in one of the games and fall on their face.


Yeah if they win their tourney or Grand Canyon wins their tourney, State is probably playing today. Annoying that those teams still got in.
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kmb717
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4:40p, 6/4/22
Dallas Baptist and Grand Canyon both 0-2. Great job committee.
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Tom OBriens Smile
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5:09p, 6/4/22
Liberty goes 0-2 too, the only "bubble" team doing anything yet is FSU - Ole Miss may be fortunate that tropical storm is delaying the Coral Gables Regional to this point.
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