NC State head coach Dave Doeren joined the Wolfpack Weekly Radio Show to discuss the Wolfpack’s win over Louisville, CJ Bailey’s continued development, and much more!
We talked about the win over Louisville, 31-28, last week. We always discuss the turnover margin number. Louisville came in with zero fumbles lost, zero on the year. They had one turnover all year, an interception. They have five fumbles in the game, three of which were recovered by the Pack. Unbelievable turnover margin ballgame. Were there signs through the week in the scout that you thought, hey, we may have an opportunity here to rip this thing free?
I did mention a lot of that to our players. We've got pictures all over the building of guys running with the ball, what we call "ball in jeopardy," really loose or one-handed, away from the body. Tackling them was going to be the challenge, which we failed at a lot because they were so athletic. But second, third guys there needed to strip the football. We talked about that a lot during the week, and there's the big difference in the game.
The likelihood that one guy would recover all three fumbles. You've got to have a nose for the football, but the way that oblong thing can roll around, it's just the skill level that Popo had to be in the area and secure the football.
I don't know, I've never seen that, but good things happen when you run to the ball, and that kid's flying to the football. He's got a big motor. Good things happen to good people, too. That kid works his butt off. He treats people with respect. Good things are happening for him. I'm happy for him, and we needed those plays.
I learned a new term this week that you introduced us to. What is the camera club?
When we're watching coaches copy film, when you pause it after the ball stops, who's in that view? Guys are running to the football. When you pause the film at the end, you want to see a lot of bodies in there on defense, and the more the merrier.
There's a lot of player turnover year to year now with the portal, and I've noticed a consistent trend over the years I've watched Pack football. That is ball hawking and trying to rip the ball away to force turnovers, as well as disciplined football in terms of penalties. This is one of the least-penalized teams in the ACC, but new players are coming in and executing the same things. Is that scheme? Is it culture? Is it technique? You're coaching. How do you instill those things consistently when you're plugging in different personnel into spots?
It starts with the recruiting. You want to get guys that match your DNA if you can. You do a lot of homework and make sure they're our type of guy, work ethic-wise, coachability. Then your older players are part of that, the guys that stay.
They help teach the team's culture when these guys get here. Then Coach Ruff, Coach Thunder, and I spend a lot of time teaching them what we're all about, holding them accountable to the standards. Then this all comes together. When it comes to technique, that's coaching. You're gonna coach how they play fundamentally, and it's muscle memory in this sport.
It's through repetition that you do that. We talked about Popo's play, but how did Harvey Dyson's play look to you when you went back and watched it on film?
It's a great play. I was right there watching it live, and they had a great angle of the whole thing. The spectacular effort and finish by him. Senior moment: the seniors got to make plays like that so you could have big wins. It's just incredible to see him do that for his football team.
Not just to make the tackle, though, but to come down with a tomahawk chop. It's just amazing.
It was. It was a huge play in the game, and obviously in the fourth quarter when you're getting turnovers, it's really hard for somebody to win.
Talked about sacking the quarterback, finishing off plays in the pocket. There have been some missed sacks. There had been a bunch of QB hurries throughout the year, though, but you wanted to finish those plays off. What do you think were difference makers in this ballgame? I'm thinking of Harvey Dyson as well. That was a crucial play, that late sack in the ballgame.
That was the design pattern we had set up; it was well executed, and then he finished. We've had others. Vanderbilt play, same thing. We had two guys unblocked right in front of the quarterback on fourth and five and didn't get him down. Harvey finished the play where we didn't finish it at Vandy. That's the difference, and that's the difference between winning and losing. If we get that sack at Vandy on fourth and five, they don't score that drive, and we win that football game without the ending, right? You got to finish plays. These guys have to get people on the ground and finish their sack opportunities.
Then the second thing is we beat more one-on-ones in pass rush in this game. You saw Ke'Von Carter. Great job coming off the edge and not just getting blocked, beating a blocker, getting to the quarterback,and reaching for the quarterback's hand. That was a really good pass rusher up by him.
On plays like that, I'm thinking about the Harvey Dyson sack, but really any linebacker sack to some degree, how much credit should the defensive line get for pushing back potential blockers on that play to allow Harvey Dyson to get there?
That was a three-man game. Two guys are really rushing hard to get the protection turned in the way we want it, and then he's got to wrap tight so he comes around downhill and not a lot of space for the quarterback. There's a lot of stuff that goes into that: the timing, the alignments. Coach Eliot really did a nice job, not just coaching that, but also setting it up for the right moment and calling it when we needed it.
In the postgame conversation you have with me, you said that was maybe the most missed tackles I've ever seen in the history of a football game. What was the total number?
That's 23. That's more than we've had in four games. Give Louisville some credit, but really disappointed in our technique. Guys not doing what they're coached to do on good players is only gonna make you look worse, right? There were some good examples of how to do it. King Mack had two really nice open-field tackles where he comes to balance. He shimmies his feet. He has good knee bend. He doesn't get out of balance. He's able to close the distance and tackle.
Other guys just sprint like the guy's gonna let him kill him. Those guys are good athletes. They're gonna make you miss, and Wake's no different. They got some. Something I was really shocked to see, not that we'd miss some because you're going up against athletes like that, but not that many. If you take half of those off the board, it's a completely different game. That's how we got to play. We got to fix that. We've got to be much cleaner about giving up big plays due to missed tackles.
The player who led you in tackles is Brian Nelson. He had five quick. It was five, mid first quarter, I think. I don't know if that was circumstance or if the ball happened to be going to his side of the field or what. How did Brian Nelson play? Nine tackles in this ballgame and led you.
Played great. Some of them were in the run game because he's to the boundary a lot, where those nub formations, he's going to be involved in tackling. But some of them were just on crossing routes or quick outs, with no yards after the catch. He was able to get him down immediately.
I told him that on his Thursday or Friday, there's gonna be a couple times we're gonna have to tackle like a linebacker today because of the run fits, and he was excited about it. Obviously, the one where he picked the guy up and slammed him into a corner was a big-time play.
How many corners get excited to hit like that?
Not many. I think Jamel Johnson's a contact player. Last year he had several big hits for us, but it's not always in their repertoire, and he's a guy that has that.
Coach, I was really impressed with the eight-minute mark, eight-minute middle in this football game against Louisville. The last four of the first half, the first four of the second half. That was an improvement over the previous games. What was different about this opportunity?
The defense got the stop there instead of giving up the field goal. I've given up two field goals before the half this year. Then the offense didn't give them the ball back for another opportunity. Even though we didn't score, if you don't score before the half, you don't want to give them the ball. That's what we ended up doing there, even though we got booed in our stadium for playing smart football.
We knew we were getting the ball first in the third quarter. We're not going to screw it up and give them another possession. Open up the third quarter with a touchdown drive. That was really good, to go in with the lead and come back out and extend it coming out of the third quarter.
Carter-Finley for a noon kick this Saturday. Coach, we talked defense in the previous segment. I want to talk to you a little bit about the offense, the other side of the ball, and maybe some special teams as well.
But this is the number-one third-down offense in the Atlantic Coast Conference. Came into the game against Louisville at 53%. I do believe it still is 53%, which leads the league.
How much credit do you give to what's going on on first and second down for what you're able to execute more than half the time now on third down?
That's definitely part of it. When you get to third and short, and you have a dominant third-down package as we do right now, it helps. That's going to extend that ratio.
But we've also been able to convert on some third and 10, third and 11, third and 12s, which you really shouldn't do that very often. The odds are pretty stacked against you. That's a good job by the receivers and tight ends.
Running backs on a couple of them have been screens. CJ has enough time to put the ball where it needs to go and give the guys a chance to make a play.
Another part of that equation that can help in your third down is your time of possession. I think you're up by 7:40. You're at 33 minutes of time of possession, plus 7:40 over your opponent.
What factors have you seen contribute to dominating in time of possession?
They get fewer possessions. Again, when you're trying to hold a team under its scoring average, which is what we're trying to do, they averaged 41. We held them to 28.
That's a good day, even though it could have been a lot better. That's still on average. That's a good day's work.
When you talk about what they're getting on normal this week, they averaged 36 points a game. Again, you want to try to hold them under 28 if you can. If you're taking one or two possessions away from them because of the time of possession, you're limiting their opportunities to get to their normal scoring.
That leads the league, that time-of-possession number. It's 10th best in the country, nearly 34 minutes a game. Really, really good.
It feels like it would dovetail naturally. Maybe this is obvious. But is the third down number and the time of possession number, are they kind of hand in glove?
Yeah, and the rushing. Being able to run the football, that's part of that, too. As you've seen, our numbers are pretty balanced.
When you look at runs and passes, those two things will correlate with time of possession.
It's been kind of a shell drill on your offensive line. A next-man-up mentality, I get it. But what's your evaluation of film when you see Daniel Cruz after the game and what you're able to see? A guy getting his first start at center in slippery conditions on Saturday.
I was so proud of him and impressed by what he did. 82 snaps on offense, all good snaps. Played a really good football game.
Can he play better? Yeah, but he played well and against good players. It was great for his confidence, and great for ours.
To your point, it's been hard. Spike's done. Then you lose Yousef during the game.
We found out last Wednesday that Jimarion wouldn't be able to play. It's been really hard. Kudos to the O-line and to Coach Tujague for being able to cross-train guys the way he has, simplify things, and get guys to play left and right, in different positions.
Rico Jackson's so valuable. All the stuff that guy does. Teague Andersen, all the positions he's played.
We're fortunate. That's recruiting smart kids and having an offensive line coach that knows how to cross-train.
How happy were you, especially considering the five Louisville fumbles? You mentioned Daniel Cruz and the wet football, the slick football. How happy were you, overall, with ball security in a game where it seemed slippery out there?
Louisville had zero fumbles lost on the year, and they have five in the game ,three tof whichthey lost. It makes a big difference.
As I said, it was on film going into our game that they were loose with the football. When the ball's slick and you're like that, you're putting it in jeopardy. We're used to playing on grass, so I think that might have been a little bit of an advantage to us.
They're a turf team. But the rain is the same for both teams, and it's about being able to throw and catch. Both teams threw the ball around like it wasn't raining.
I thought their quarterback did a nice job throwing the football as well. We had three drops that we normally wouldn't have. It was a little bit slick on the football.
But that was a hard-fought game. Both teams, I thought, did a lot of good things and kept trading blows.
Let's turn your attention to your quarterback, CJ Bailey, with a career high. 373.
His last four games, he's averaging 296 yards per game. I think of a third-quarter pass to Victor Snow, who throws it between a trio of defenders. I think of his pocket presence, where he avoided a rush twice, resulting in a touchdown pass.
Just as the totality of his game, where is he right now?
He's super confident. He has a great feel in the pocket. He has very good perception of what's going on around him.
He's playing fast, and he understands the game. He's a smart football player. He knows how important it is to take care of it.
At times, he's still making that mistake, the interception that he threw in the red zone. I know he wants that one back. But he's playing at a high level, and he's giving us a chance to win games.
I was proud of him — how he ran the football in that game, took care of the football. It's third and 12 towards the end of the game, and he scrambles,s knowing he's probably not going to get the first down, and tries to jump over and dive for a... He's just putting it out there.
As players, if I were playing for that guy, I would want to do anything he asked me to do because he puts it out there for him, and that's what competitors look like.
I was on Wes Durham and Roddy Jones's SiriusXM show this week, and they asked me for CJ's top attribute. They just put me on the spot. I didn't know what was coming.
I said, what comes to mind is toughness. I see very few plays where he's just bailing out of pockets. He's not avoiding hits, right?
But not only physically, but mentally. He seems like he's resilient; maybe resilience is also a good word for it. Is that fair?
Yeah, I think he's really got thick skin. He's totally competitive and wants to do better and knows that the next play is gonna be one that he can do. He can move on pretty quickly, which for a quarterback is not easy.
Fortunate to have the mental endurance, strength, and mindset he has as a competitor.
He made a comment after the game at the press conference here, saying, “I didn't want to let my team down again.” We all know what he's referring to, but from where he came from at that moment to where he is now, I know you've got to be extremely proud. That's a hard thing to do.
Oh, yeah. There are a lot of guys who would have just shriveled up, and he got bigger. You can't say enough about him.
The dude's a hero in the locker room because of how he carries himself and how he plays, and he does it every day. He's just consistently like that. You better show up because he's gonna show up, and he's gonna demand energy from coaches, from players.
It's awesome what he does every day.
