GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Wufskins said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

If SCOTUS restricts or outright bans the abortion pill it will be as big an issue as the economy and the border.

---

Wufskins said:

---

I don't think so either but they decided to hear the case so it's always a possibility.

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Quote:

---

the government had a responsibility to address these inequalities and promote greater equality and social justice."

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

BBW12OG said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

Good luck getting that answered. He is doing nothing but regurgitating lefty talking points. Roe was NEVER a Constitutional Right. It was NEVER in the Constitution.

You want to compare that to the the 2nd Amendment???

And saying "bodily autonomy" constitutes taking the life of another human than by your standards if you find someone is causing you pain, emotional or physical, than by "bodily autonomy" you have the right to kill them.

Works both ways there pal.

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

BBW12OG said:

---

He just lost ALL credibility on this topic like he has with many others with comment "activist judges."

The true colors of MARXISM are about to be exposed with every word he says. Give them enough time and they'll tell you who they are.

So... Smarpty.... Do you think the SCOTUS Justices are illegitimate?

Do you think the SCOTUS should be expanded and put on the bench by the left?

If so after that happens do you support blowing up the filibuster and codifying the expansion into law after that?

Please answer the above.

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

How can they over turn the 2nd? Then why don't the Democrats pass something then? I mean isn't that what the court basically ruled on? It was a poor original ruling from the get go, lots of experts over the years agree on that, both sides. One other thing, if the court rules in your favor on the pill are they still a " activist " court?

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

How can they over turn the 2nd? Then why don't the Democrats pass something then? I mean isn't that what the court basically ruled on? It was a poor original ruling from the get go, lots of experts over the years agree on that, both sides. One other thing, if the court rules in your favor on the pill are they still a " activist " court?

---

I didn't say overturn the 2nd, I said choose to interpret it as a relic of a bygone era that has no relevance to current gun ownership.

I guarantee that the next time Dems control the White House and all of congress will most definitely codify Roe as the law of the land. It wasn't necessary before now because it's been settled law for like 50 YEARS. But you guys have been busy beavers for all of those decades packing the court with Federalist Society-approved right wing-activists, and your long game finally paid off. Congrats!

And yes, they are the most cartoonishly "activist" court we've had in a long time.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

How can they over turn the 2nd? Then why don't the Democrats pass something then? I mean isn't that what the court basically ruled on? It was a poor original ruling from the get go, lots of experts over the years agree on that, both sides. One other thing, if the court rules in your favor on the pill are they still a " activist " court?

---

I didn't say overturn the 2nd, I said choose to interpret it as a relic of a bygone era that has no relevance to current gun ownership. The point is you should probably be careful kicking other peoples' rights to the states... you may not like the doors you're opening.

Anyway, I guarantee that the next time Dems control the White House and all of congress will most definitely codify Roe as the law of the land. It wasn't necessary before now because it's been settled law for like 50 YEARS. But you guys have been busy beavers for all of those decades packing the court with Federalist Society-approved right wing-activists, and your long game finally paid off. Congrats!

And yes, they are the most cartoonishly "activist" court we've had in a long time.

---

BBW12OG said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

How can they over turn the 2nd? Then why don't the Democrats pass something then? I mean isn't that what the court basically ruled on? It was a poor original ruling from the get go, lots of experts over the years agree on that, both sides. One other thing, if the court rules in your favor on the pill are they still a " activist " court?

---

I didn't say overturn the 2nd, I said choose to interpret it as a relic of a bygone era that has no relevance to current gun ownership. The point is you should probably be careful kicking other peoples' rights to the states... you may not like the doors you're opening.

Anyway, I guarantee that the next time Dems control the White House and all of congress will most definitely codify Roe as the law of the land. It wasn't necessary before now because it's been settled law for like 50 YEARS. But you guys have been busy beavers for all of those decades packing the court with Federalist Society-approved right wing-activists, and your long game finally paid off. Congrats!

And yes, they are the most cartoonishly "activist" court we've had in a long time.

---

You didn't answer the questions at all.

So you are saying that the 10 Amendments are antiquated and should be updated?

I guess you could also answer me this... Do you think a man can have a baby and can a woman have a *****?

I'll hang up and listen.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

ncsupack1 said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

---

So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

---

No I'm not. But was Roe ever a Amendment? I know you weren't asking me.

---

Yeah, for a century the Supreme Court has ruled that bodily autonomy is a right, part of "liberty" found in multiple places in the Constitution. Are you seriously suggesting that your bodily autonomy should be less of a right than carrying a handgun? Step back for a sec and consider how f'ing nuts that is.

---

I'm asking you if Roe was a Amendment? I know the that the 2nd is a Amendment.

---

I'll assume you know that Roe wasn't an Amendment. But it was decided originally based on rights found in the constitution (14th Amendment, etc), that our current "activist" court decided to un-find. Just like every gun law you care about isn't in the Constitution either... they were pulled out of a court's butt based on what they believe "well-regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment meant that year.

---

How can they over turn the 2nd? Then why don't the Democrats pass something then? I mean isn't that what the court basically ruled on? It was a poor original ruling from the get go, lots of experts over the years agree on that, both sides. One other thing, if the court rules in your favor on the pill are they still a " activist " court?

---

I didn't say overturn the 2nd, I said choose to interpret it as a relic of a bygone era that has no relevance to current gun ownership. The point is you should probably be careful kicking other peoples' rights to the states... you may not like the doors you're opening.

Anyway, I guarantee that the next time Dems control the White House and all of congress will most definitely codify Roe as the law of the land. It wasn't necessary before now because it's been settled law for like 50 YEARS. But you guys have been busy beavers for all of those decades packing the court with Federalist Society-approved right wing-activists, and your long game finally paid off. Congrats!

And yes, they are the most cartoonishly "activist" court we've had in a long time.

---

You didn't answer the questions at all.

So you are saying that the 10 Amendments are antiquated and should be updated?

I guess you could also answer me this... Do you think a man can have a baby and can a woman have a *****?

I'll hang up and listen.

---

I need to apologize to PackGrad for thinking he was by far the dumbest person in the Water Cooler.

P.S. Thomas Jefferson never said that. It's a quote from some 1980s era libertarian horse crap.

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

---

Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

---

It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

---

To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

---

Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

---

Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

---

Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

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So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

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hokiewolf said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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hokiewolf said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Wufskins said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Seeing the senile communist kid-sniffer's commercials everywhere now -- on television and YouTube non-stop. No Trump commercials at all.

The commie's main pitch is to "fight" the climate change hoax and to fight for the "right" to murder unborn children. Wow, winning issues there Demoncrats....how does paying more taxes and higher prices for fuel for the global warming hoax make my life better? How does women murdering their unborn children make my life better?

Guess you guys think you can rig the election again with millions of absentee ballots that are 100% for Biden magically arriving at 3:00am in every battleground state?

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Keep thinking women's abortion rights doesn't move the needle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/03/26/democrats-republicans-abortion-ivf-alabama-election/

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It very clearly had a huge electoral impact in 2022.

The recency of the Dobbs decision relative to the date of the 2022 elections impacted too, in ways that will be hard to quantify and extrapolate to 2024.

It won't go from mattering a lot to not at all, but I am curious to see how much of a motivator or galvanizing issue it is for the left over two years after Dobbs.

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To me, this is where I do not like politics. Roe was a terrible law, it kicked the can down the road. Leagally, it was correct to overturn the law. Now instead of doing the thing they're supposed to do, like produce legislation, debate it and compromise a sound solution that is bi-partisan, they just use it as another issue to raise money from.

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Oh sure, it should always have been legislated.

And the legal community seemed to agree it was a law that should/would be overturned when the SC took it up.

Most Americans want sensible abortion law, not outright bans or effective bans and not red herring full-term abortions. They want something that makes sense that's in between those two extremes. That sentiment was clear before Dobbs. Pubs knew this.

They had the opportunity though to come to the table with Dems to craft and pass good, common-sense legislation that would supersede the legally dubious Roe law.

They chose instead to overturn first and ask legislative questions later (or not at all) and they should bear the electoral burden of that poor decision/sequencing.

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Was there anything about Roe that wasn't already a sensible compromise? It seemed to work pretty well for decades. Sure it should have been legislated, but there was nothing stopping congress for all of those decades and they chose not to.

Roe was only under attack exactly because the anti-abortion movement wants an outright ban, full stop, and pushing it to the states gave them an opening to do that. So now conservatives are the dogs who finally caught the car.

What they're now discovering the hard way is that women care about their own bodily autonomy as much as anyone cares about any constitutional right, and the idea of kicking their rights to the states to decide is bullsh**.

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Roe was bad law, bad laws need to be removed from our system, not reinforced.

Your last paragraph I especially disagree with. No one is forcing someone to live in the 14 states that banned abortion. Just like a woman has the free will to choose to not use contraception that would prevent having to have an abortion, they have the free will to pick up and move to the other 36 states of their choosing where some form of abortion is legal.

Abortion should be decided at the state level because what is good for California and New York is not necessarily what should be good for the entire country. Treating the United States like it is one big blob of like minded people is the reason why we get bad laws like Roe in the first place.

My biggest frustration with the left side argument is that there isn't free choice to begin with. Use contraception or abstain from sex, or don't and risk getting pregnant. That's autonomy! What you want is 0% accountability, and that was what Roe offered to woman.

Now, my biggest frustration with the right side at the moment is doing stupid **** like trying to ban IVF or contraception based on religious arguments. That don't fly with me either.

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So you'd be fine with kicking the 2nd Amendment and every other constitutional right to the states to decide? Or just the ones that don't affect you personally?

Don't get me wrong, I think Republicans should definitely turn "if you don't like it, you're "free" to move to another state" and "it's your fault for getting pregnant, suck it up!" into their bumper stickers. I'd love a permanent Dem majority.

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uh, the states actually can kick the amendments if they wanted to, it's part of the constitution. Roe was bad law that also happened to give you something you think is a right. It's not an amendment though.

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