Sad when there is better coverage by foreign news versus US news and media:

packofwolves said:

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Sad when there is better coverage by foreign news versus US news and media:

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WTH? We have to go across the pond to get a good analysis!! I wonder how Civ will spin this one…

caryking said:

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packofwolves said:

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Sad when there is better coverage by foreign news versus US news and media:

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WTH? We have to go across the pond to get a good analysis!! I wonder how Civ will spin this one…

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To be honest, I've had to scout UK media sources for many years concerning things back home that the local media don't or won't touch.

packgrad said:

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jkpackfan said:

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Civilized said:

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packofwolves said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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packofwolves said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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I guess libs and pretindependents don't want to talk about collusion now.

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There's nothing to talk about yet. A confidential informant getting an uncorroborated story from a Burisma executive isn't actionable.

Form a bipartisan congressional commission or appoint a special prosectuor and investigate the **** out of it and report back.

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Sure, Biden's DOJ will jump right on it and assign a special prosecutor.

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Independent civ should be aware that the fbi suppressed the information and worked with social media companies to suppress the information. But, NOW they should investigate according to independent civ. Lol. Sheep.

Whatever it takes!!!

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ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Just more of your favorite excuses about how the poor Pubs are victimized by the meanie media and the gestapo.

What's stopping the Republican-led House of Representatives from initiating an investigation, subpoena-ing the **** out of people, and diving into it?

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Come on, you know the US House can't assign a special counsel. They could pass a law but you also know that's a non-starter in the Senate. Also Biden can veto it.

Biden's DOJ has to assign special counsel and you know that's not happening either. Nor will the FBI investigate it. But it is their job to do it.

Go back to putting your head in the sand.

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Two separate issues. I'm saying if you think the justice department won't investigate it then what about the House?

The House can investigate on their own. They don't need permission.

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People like you wouldn't believe the results if they did and you know it. If you can't see the double standard here then there's no helping you. I guess the 2 IRS agents that testified were just crazy right wingers.

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Correct. Civ is a brainwashed liberal. He still believes in Russian collusion. He cried about it on here for years. Remember, he also spouted that the laptop story was Russian disinformation. He cited the dozens of former intelligence officers nonsense that has been completely debunked. He's a good foot soldier for the banana republic.

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I would actually be laughing right now if it wasn't so sad.
You can't have a proper discussion.
Facts don't matter, He would argue the sky is green to the bitter end..yup I'm saying he would ignore what he sees looking up and continue to beat the drum..God can come down tell him the sky's blue and he would still beat the drum…
He is fun to laugh at though I will give him that

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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jkpackfan said:

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Civilized said:

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packofwolves said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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packofwolves said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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I guess libs and pretindependents don't want to talk about collusion now.

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There's nothing to talk about yet. A confidential informant getting an uncorroborated story from a Burisma executive isn't actionable.

Form a bipartisan congressional commission or appoint a special prosectuor and investigate the **** out of it and report back.

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Sure, Biden's DOJ will jump right on it and assign a special prosecutor.

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Independent civ should be aware that the fbi suppressed the information and worked with social media companies to suppress the information. But, NOW they should investigate according to independent civ. Lol. Sheep.

Whatever it takes!!!

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ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Just more of your favorite excuses about how the poor Pubs are victimized by the meanie media and the gestapo.

What's stopping the Republican-led House of Representatives from initiating an investigation, subpoena-ing the **** out of people, and diving into it?

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Come on, you know the US House can't assign a special counsel. They could pass a law but you also know that's a non-starter in the Senate. Also Biden can veto it.

Biden's DOJ has to assign special counsel and you know that's not happening either. Nor will the FBI investigate it. But it is their job to do it.

Go back to putting your head in the sand.

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Two separate issues. I'm saying if you think the justice department won't investigate it then what about the House?

The House can investigate on their own. They don't need permission.

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People like you wouldn't believe the results if they did and you know it. If you can't see the double standard here then there's no helping you. I guess the 2 IRS agents that testified were just crazy right wingers.

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Correct. Civ is a brainwashed liberal. He still believes in Russian collusion. He cried about it on here for years. Remember, he also spouted that the laptop story was Russian disinformation. He cited the dozens of former intelligence officers nonsense that has been completely debunked. He's a good foot soldier for the banana republic.

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No need to lie about what I've said or think.

What dozens of former intelligence officials are you talking about?

I've said on here many times over the last couple of years that I'm willing to accept the result of the investigations that confirmed Russia meddled in the election and that the Trump administration hoped and expected to benefit from that meddling, but also that there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Trump colluded.

If this House committee finds that there is insufficient evidence to conclude Biden took bribes, are you willing to do the same?

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Yeah. You did say what I said. You also said you're an independent. Let's not pretend that the truth , or owning up to what you did say, is important to you. Keep the lying accusations directed to yourself, pretindependent.

Civ - You do know it has been verified that over 20 shell companies have been used to distribute foreign money to 7+ Biden family members. Why do you suppose so many shell companies were used? Can't wait for you explain away this one as nothing unusual.

" I've said on here many times over the last couple of years that I'm willing to accept the result of the investigations that confirmed Russia meddled in the election and that the Trump administration hoped and expected to benefit from that meddling, but also that there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Trump colluded."

Doesn't sound like you have accepted anything.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/05/17/durham-report-vindicates-trump-fbi-russia-investigation/70222344007/

packgrad said:

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I guess libs and pretindependents don't want to talk about collusion now.

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Man, I'm so old I remember when it was ALL they wanted to talk about. What changed?

caryking said:

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packofwolves said:

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Sad when there is better coverage by foreign news versus US news and media:

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WTH? We have to go across the pond to get a good analysis!! I wonder how Civ will spin this one…

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I'll take a wild guess…"but Trump"?

Civilized said:

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packofwolves said:

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Civ - actually the FD-1023 is new and wasn't made public (nor did anyone know it existed) until the whistleblowers came forward. And the whistleblowers have gone on record, under oath, talking about the DOJ interfering with the Hunter Biden investigation and preventing the IRS from investigating the evidence implicating JOE Biden. But yeah, nothing to see here - right? Your a typical democrat who defends at all costs.

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The FBI produced the document last month, under subpoena, after the whistleblowers told them about it. Several lawmakers saw it at that time. Grassley released it to the public this week. We agree about all of that.

But the Burisma bribe story has been told for years by Trump and Giuliani. And Giuliani's team directly questioned the Burisma executive back in 2019 when they were trying to dig up dirt on Biden and he told them nobody from Burisma had had contact with Joe Biden or anyone working for him.

The informant explicitly noted that it is not unusual for Ukrainian business executives to brag and show off and that had no support for the veracity of the allegations he was relaying.

Also the agents have said their recommendations for charging weren't followed.

But then you have David Weiss, the Trump-appointed prosecutor leading the probe, telling Congress that he had "ultimate authority" over "where, when and whether to file charges" and disputing the whistleblowers' assertion that their team asked for a special counsel and were turned down, saying that the whistleblower may have misunderstood the prosecutor's recounting of the situation.

But play out the Burisma payment thing for a minute. What motivation did Burisma have to bribe Biden?

And if they did bribe him, what happened to the money? Did Joe launder it? Would be pretty bold for someone that has Presidential aspirations, knows his financial dealings will be under scrutiny, and doesn't have a bunch of businesses like Trump that he could make the money disappear into.

So yeah I'm skeptical about several aspects of these claims. But I have zero issue investigating it. Like I've said many times on here, Biden is an unfit President and I don't want him to be our next President. So why would I care if he gets in legal hot water that effectively ends his 2024 presidential bid?

Are you comfortable that the Republican House, with subpoena power, can investigate this matter to your satisfaction?

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This is a good post. I know this is a good post because no one seems to want to refute any of it.

The FBI produced the document last month, under subpoena, after the whistleblowers told them about it. Several lawmakers saw it at that time. Grassley released it to the public this week. We agree about all of that.

But the Burisma bribe story has been told for years by Trump and Giuliani. And Giuliani's team directly questioned the Burisma executive back in 2019 when they were trying to dig up dirt on Biden and he told them nobody from Burisma had had contact with Joe Biden or anyone working for him.

[Reply]: Do you seriously think Burisma (or Ukraine officials) would fess up to bribery?

…….

The informant explicitly noted that it is not unusual for Ukrainian business executives to brag and show off and that had no support for the veracity of the allegations he was relaying.

[Reply]: The informant also said it is extremely common for businesses in Ukraine to make bribe payments to various government officials. Also interesting is Zlochevsky said he didn't send funds "directly" to the "big guy". How would Zlochevsky know about the "big guy" reference for Joe Biden. Doesn't seem like something he would know if there was no relationship with Joe Biden. And with Hunter knowing nothing about the oil and gas industry, it is puzzling why he was hired in the first place to be on the board. Zlochevsky seems to have provided a lot of detail if he was just bragging.

………

Also the agents have said their recommendations for charging weren't followed.

But then you have David Weiss, the Trump-appointed prosecutor leading the probe, telling Congress that he had "ultimate authority" over "where, when and whether to file charges" and disputing the whistleblowers' assertion that their team asked for a special counsel and were turned down, saying that the whistleblower may have misunderstood the prosecutor's recounting of the situation.

[Reply]: You think Weiss being appointed by Trump makes a difference? That's laughable. Either the whistleblowers lied under oath or Weiss is lying. Bring Weiss in under oath and see where it goes. The whistleblowers are confident in their testimony.

……..

But play out the Burisma payment thing for a minute. What motivation did Burisma have to bribe Biden?

[Reply]: Really? Joe got the prosecutor fired who was investigating Burisma and Joe bragged about it.

……….

And if they did bribe him, what happened to the money? Did Joe launder it? Would be pretty bold for someone that has Presidential aspirations, knows his financial dealings will be under scrutiny, and doesn't have a bunch of businesses like Trump that he could make the money disappear into.

[Reply]: Joe didn't have presidential aspirations at that time. Why did the Biden's need to use 20+ shell companies to receive payments from foreign businesses? Many questions remain on foreign income received by the Bidens. Hopefully in time it will be unraveled.

……….

So yeah I'm skeptical about several aspects of these claims. But I have zero issue investigating it. Like I've said many times on here, Biden is an unfit President and I don't want him to be our next President. So why would I care if he gets in legal hot water that effectively ends his 2024 presidential bid?

[Reply]: I have already addressed this. The Republican house can investigate but they have no power to assign a special prosecutor. And as has been said already, the discoveries by the House will not be reported by mainstream media and the Dems will continue berating the House investigations.

………

Are you comfortable that the Republican House, with subpoena power, can investigate this matter to your satisfaction?

[Reply]: No I am not. There needs to be a special prosecutor assigned, a reputable one. But Biden's DOJ will never do it.

Civilized said:

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packofwolves said:

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" I've said on here many times over the last couple of years that I'm willing to accept the result of the investigations that confirmed Russia meddled in the election and that the Trump administration hoped and expected to benefit from that meddling, but also that there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Trump colluded."

Doesn't sound like you have accepted anything.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/05/17/durham-report-vindicates-trump-fbi-russia-investigation/70222344007/

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LOLOLOL

What exactly it is you want me to accept? I literally said I'm fine with the conclusion that Trump didn't collude.

Are you disputing that?

Or are you disputing that Russia meddled in the election?

Or are you acting like Trump being investigated for collusion was simply about media bias and didn't have anything to do with the optics of Trump so weirdly fellating Putin every chance he got along with his campaign's direct communication with Russia along with the clear perceived benefit to the Trump campaign of Russia's obvious and substantiated meddling?

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I was commenting specifically on this statement you made:

"Trump administration hoped and expected to benefit from that meddling, but also that there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Trump colluded."

Lol…."insufficient evidence" is not accepting there was no collusion along with a remark about meddling. Although I do see your last reply changed to:

"Trump didn't collude"

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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packofwolves said:

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IRS whistleblowers come across as very credible.

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Come on fellas, don't let guys like Civ distort reality. Think about what these guys risk to come forward. Support these patriots with your thoughts, words and prayer.

There will be 8-10% of the population that cannot be swayed. I don't waste time on these guys. They are lost.

Have you heard the RFK Jr nephew speak on his uncle? These types are the lost......a product of our education system, tabloid T and a woke society.

The ones we must educate are those middle of the road types. Conservatives and Kennedy Democrats.

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LOLOL. RFK Jr. ???

RFK Jr. is a conspiracy theory-loving clown show that would have embarrassed the **** out of his Dad and uncle.

I understand why you latch onto him though.

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You obviously haven't listened to him. He speaks to the left and people exactly like you who try to put labels on everyone to diminish what they say. You're a great example of exactly what's he was talking about.

"Conspiracy theory loving clown show". Same **** you said about covid vaccine skeptics. Such a good foot soldier.

Baaaaa

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Doesn't surprise me you like him. You fall for lots of people that hide behind the faux "just asking questions" bit when what they're really doing is irresponsibly platforming half-cocked conspiracy theories under the guise of intellectual curiosity or even worse just sitting on the sidelines sniping at the people out there doing the real work of trying to create things or solve problems.

You know, just like your posting style on here. Never proposing solutions or actually engaging in good-faith conversation or debate, just telling other people why their thoughts or solutions are stupid. Height of intellectual laziness.

The only reason you listen to someone that thinks MMR vaccines cause autism or diabetes or MS, the CIA assassinated his uncle and Dad, COVID targets white and black people but not Jews or the Chinese, other bioweapons are being engineered around the world that target specific races, etc. is for comedic value only.

The man is a loon and if his last name wasn't Kennedy he'd be dismissed as the loon that he is instead of platformed as a legit presidential candidate or at least a disruptive chaos agent like the right is trying to do.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/robert-f-kennedy-election-presidential-campaign-2024-5265d2b8

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/07/18/rfk-jrs-family-denounces-claim-that-jews-chinese-are-immune-to-covid-here-are-all-the-other-conspiracies-he-promotes/amp/

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Apparently people that actually listened to RFK Jr speak in congress this week didn't think he was a conspiracy theory-loving clown show that would have embarrassed the **** out of his Dad and uncle.

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Dollars to donuts the Venn diagram of people that believe the 2020 election was stolen and people that contributed to this PAC overlap completely.

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Oh yes. Couldn't be democrats that aren't radical leftists like you and are looking for another alternative. You're an excellent foot soldier.