Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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TheStorm said:

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Man, that's just 100% typical Civ... he'll defend anything that they do, and then immediately condemn it when someone else does the exact same thing.


I guess he just magically forgot about the Democrat's Administration flying migrants to Florida and other red states for well over a year now...

But of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot.

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Democrats are the biggest hypocrites and they have no shame about it.

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It's patently ignorant to act like both parties don't very obviously engage in hypocrisy, political opportunism, and theater to the absolute hilt.

Neither party can stand on some mythical moral high ground of respectable political conduct.

We should all be angry about that because Americans of all political persuasions lose.

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But, you only get angry when the right does it.

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Wrong, I just call you out when you act like the right doesn't do it in lock-step with the left.

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Show me where I've said the right doesn't do it. Please!

PackFansXL said:

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To equilibrate the blatant disregard for our nation's laws exhibited by the Democratic Party with anything done by the Republican Party is willfully dishonest. Today's Democratic Party is far worse than anything we've experienced in the last 50 years. Biden is an epic disaster!

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Agreed!

Biden is an epic disaster!!!Please!!Trump is foreign agent!!!

Why does this Marco hack have to respond all the time? I have him on ignore; however, I still see he post. I wish I could just eliminate seeing that he post altogether…

Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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TheStorm said:

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Man, that's just 100% typical Civ... he'll defend anything that they do, and then immediately condemn it when someone else does the exact same thing.


I guess he just magically forgot about the Democrat's Administration flying migrants to Florida and other red states for well over a year now...

But of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot.

---

Democrats are the biggest hypocrites and they have no shame about it.

---

It's patently ignorant to act like both parties don't very obviously engage in hypocrisy, political opportunism, and theater to the absolute hilt.

Neither party can stand on some mythical moral high ground of respectable political conduct.

We should all be angry about that because Americans of all political persuasions lose.

---

But, you only get angry when the right does it.

---

Wrong, I just call you out when you act like the right doesn't do it in lock-step with the left.

---

Show me where I've said the right doesn't do it. Please!

---

Steve, the way I see it is…. Who gives a crap what they think?

Personally, I think these actions, by the Governor's, as pure political actions. I'm really not a big fan of it. That said, I certainly understand why they are doing it.

Steve Videtich said:

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caryking said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

TheStorm said:

---

Man, that's just 100% typical Civ... he'll defend anything that they do, and then immediately condemn it when someone else does the exact same thing.


I guess he just magically forgot about the Democrat's Administration flying migrants to Florida and other red states for well over a year now...

But of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot.

---

Democrats are the biggest hypocrites and they have no shame about it.

---

It's patently ignorant to act like both parties don't very obviously engage in hypocrisy, political opportunism, and theater to the absolute hilt.

Neither party can stand on some mythical moral high ground of respectable political conduct.

We should all be angry about that because Americans of all political persuasions lose.

---

But, you only get angry when the right does it.

---

Wrong, I just call you out when you act like the right doesn't do it in lock-step with the left.

---

Show me where I've said the right doesn't do it. Please!

---

Steve, the way I see it is…. Who gives a crap what they think?

Personally, I think these actions, by the Governor's, as pure political actions. I'm really not a big fan of it. That said, I certainly understand why they are doing it.

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Here's my thing, my original post regarding the sign was calling out the actions of the people of MV. Civ was talking about the actions of DeSantis. Two different things.

I even agreed it was all theater! But, Democrats have made the surge they have the last several years by mastering the game of theater, because their policies are complete crap and they know it. So, if the Republicans start playing the same game, you can't get mad. If you do, I'm going to call you out for hypocrisy.

I hate the mud slinging and theatrics as much as anyone. But, with the state of politics in this country right now, the nice guy is losing. Have to get in the mud to get our country back on track. I hate to say it, but it's true!

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I can get mad at republicans because I expect more and I happen to think that if they stuck to policies and didn't try to dive into the mud, their message would come through loud and clear.

I also think DiSantis telling Martha's Vineyard he was going to send illegals to their sanctuary city and not actually doing it would have the same effect without the theater of dumb people calling press conferences and requesting criminal investigations and all that stuff that does nothing to move the actual policy forward.

The current federal policies at the border and the treatment of the federal government to move illegals around the country under a cloak of secrecy, all of that is absolutely very terrible policy and should be rejected by the electorate, whether you are left or right leaning.

I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

caryking said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

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TheStorm said:

---

Man, that's just 100% typical Civ... he'll defend anything that they do, and then immediately condemn it when someone else does the exact same thing.


I guess he just magically forgot about the Democrat's Administration flying migrants to Florida and other red states for well over a year now...

But of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot.

---

Democrats are the biggest hypocrites and they have no shame about it.

---

It's patently ignorant to act like both parties don't very obviously engage in hypocrisy, political opportunism, and theater to the absolute hilt.

Neither party can stand on some mythical moral high ground of respectable political conduct.

We should all be angry about that because Americans of all political persuasions lose.

---

But, you only get angry when the right does it.

---

Wrong, I just call you out when you act like the right doesn't do it in lock-step with the left.

---

Show me where I've said the right doesn't do it. Please!

---

Steve, the way I see it is…. Who gives a crap what they think?

Personally, I think these actions, by the Governor's, as pure political actions. I'm really not a big fan of it. That said, I certainly understand why they are doing it.

---

Of course they are. It's the flip side of the theater/virtue signaling coin.

And I also understand why they're doing it. They're doing it for the same reason the left does it; the only thing that's different is the point they're trying to make is one that the right agrees with politically, so they don't recognize it as theater/virtue signaling.

I think it's ridiculous when either side does it. It's not rational discourse. It's not good faith. It's not productive.

Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

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hence my disdain for populism

Steve Videtich said:

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I don't remember you voicing your outrage when the Dems did it before there was a reaction from the Republicans. Did I miss it?

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Where did I voice my outrage about the Republican "reaction?" I don't rage at either Pubs or Dems for this, I just roll my eyes at this point. It's dumb.

What you heard me do on here was question this notion that Pubs were innocent bystanders being provoked into their theatrics.

I also disagreed with you that the people in Martha's Vineyard were engaging in hypocritical behavior when they were shipped 50 immigrants as a political stunt, without prior warning or communication, and understandably didn't have the resources at the ready to handle that influx.

Now what would have been hypocritical behavior would have been something like a declaration by DeSantis or Abbot that, in 6 month's or one year's time, they would begin flying immigrants to sanctuaries around the country. The relocations would be in proportion to the size of the sanctuary municipality. Adequate notice was being given, so lack of preparation would not be a reasonable excuse. THEN if the sanctuary cities balked, you'd have hypocrisy.

As it stood, this was obviously an attempt to score points with DeSantis' base with a bad-faith stunt meant to grab headlines and provoke reactions.

There's no recognition by some on here that there's no moral high ground to be claimed in national politics. We all need to be looking to elect politicians on both sides of the aisle that engage in substantive, policy-based behaviors and that dial the theatrics way back.

hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

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hence my disdain for populism

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Hokie, what is your definition of populism?

Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't remember you voicing your outrage when the Dems did it before there was a reaction from the Republicans. Did I miss it?

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Where did I voice my outrage about the Republican "reaction?" I don't rage at either Pubs or Dems for this, I just roll my eyes at this point. It's dumb.

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So, posting that sign but doing the opposite of what it says is not hypocritical? MV, an island full of multi millionaires, doesn't have the resources? Rural border towns are better equipped? It's okay for the administration to fly and bus people around the country, but not the governors of the border states?

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Correct, it's not hypocritical. It's simple recognition of the complexities and planning involved.

We're talking about providing food, permanent shelter, jobs, and other resources for humans. That takes prior planning and accommodation. This isn't some abstract political concept that requires singular action. It's a human issue that requires prior planning and permanent accommodations for people for years/decades thereafter.

Here's an analogy near and dear to the right's heart.

Say you're pro-life and see adoption as a highly viable alternative to abortion.

An activist head of Planned Parenthood down the street knows this, and when one of her patients decides to give their eventual child up for adoption rather than abort, she tells her to have the baby and then she'll take the baby and leave it on your front porch without discussing it with you beforehand.

Hey man, you said you support adoption. And you've clearly got the resources. So take care of the baby that suddenly landed on your front porch. If not? HYPOCRITE!!

Amirite?

Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't remember you voicing your outrage when the Dems did it before there was a reaction from the Republicans. Did I miss it?

---

Where did I voice my outrage about the Republican "reaction?" I don't rage at either Pubs or Dems for this, I just roll my eyes at this point. It's dumb.

---

So, posting that sign but doing the opposite of what it says is not hypocritical? MV, an island full of multi millionaires, doesn't have the resources? Rural border towns are better equipped? It's okay for the administration to fly and bus people around the country, but not the governors of the border states?

---

Correct, it's not hypocritical. It's simple recognition of the complexities and planning involved.

We're talking about providing food, permanent shelter, jobs, and other resources for humans. That takes prior planning and accommodation. This isn't some abstract political concept that requires singular action. It's a human issue that requires prior planning and permanent accommodations for people for years/decades thereafter.

Here's an analogy near and dear to the right's heart.

Say you're pro-life and see adoption as a highly viable alternative to abortion.

An activist head of Planned Parenthood down the street knows this, and when one of her patients decides to give their eventual child up for adoption rather than abort, she tells her to have the baby and then she'll take the baby and leave it on your front porch without discussing it with you beforehand.

Hey man, you said you support adoption. And you've clearly got the resources. So take care of the baby that suddenly landed on your front porch. If not? HYPOCRITE!!

Amirite?

---

So is all of this pre planning in place for the thousands of people coming across the border each day already in place for border cities and other places that the administration is sending them to? Or, are their claims of a humanitarian crisis not equal to the claims that the purple of MV claimed?

As far as your example, I bet that lady would actually take that child into her home and provide some help and care for that child instead of going on the news and declaring that it was inhumane that the child was left on the porch and calling for officials to take the baby away. Try again!

Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Civilized said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't remember you voicing your outrage when the Dems did it before there was a reaction from the Republicans. Did I miss it?

---

Where did I voice my outrage about the Republican "reaction?" I don't rage at either Pubs or Dems for this, I just roll my eyes at this point. It's dumb.

---

So, posting that sign but doing the opposite of what it says is not hypocritical? MV, an island full of multi millionaires, doesn't have the resources? Rural border towns are better equipped? It's okay for the administration to fly and bus people around the country, but not the governors of the border states?

---

Correct, it's not hypocritical. It's simple recognition of the complexities and planning involved.

We're talking about providing food, permanent shelter, jobs, and other resources for humans. That takes prior planning and accommodation. This isn't some abstract political concept that requires singular action. It's a human issue that requires prior planning and permanent accommodations for people for years/decades thereafter.

Here's an analogy near and dear to the right's heart.

Say you're pro-life and see adoption as a highly viable alternative to abortion.

An activist head of Planned Parenthood down the street knows this, and when one of her patients decides to give their eventual child up for adoption rather than abort, she tells her to have the baby and then she'll take the baby and leave it on your front porch without discussing it with you beforehand.

Hey man, you said you support adoption. And you've clearly got the resources. So take care of the baby that suddenly landed on your front porch. If not? HYPOCRITE!!

Amirite?

---

So is all of this pre planning in place for the thousands of people coming across the border each day already in place for border cities and other places that the administration is sending them to? Or, are their claims of a humanitarian crisis not equal to the claims that the purple of MV claimed?

As far as your example, I bet that lady would actually take that child into her home and provide some help and care for that child instead of going on the news and declaring that it was inhumane that the child was left on the porch and calling for officials to take the baby away. Try again!

---

There were all sorts of news stories about the MV community's welcoming response to the immigrants. Volunteers and churches scrambled to provide food, clothing, shelter, and medical/COVID care to the immigrants. Are you ignoring that response? There's an obvious difference between making someone feel cared for and providing for their short-term needs though and being set up to immediately become their permanent caregiver.

Was Abbot sending buses of immigrants to Kamala Harris' house good-faith?

These are political stunts.

The irony is that they're effective at making a point. But let's not deny what they are and act like politicians on the right don't routinely engage in the exact same behavior as those on the left.

Civ, you keep bringing up the action of the immigrants being sent there in the first place. I've never once talked about that. I've discussed the reaction of the citizens on an island that have the recently posted sign saying these immigrants are welcome.

If what you say is true about some care being provided, then I retract everything I've said. But, it was reported that they were shipped off to a military base. So, haven't many of these immigrants just been put up in hotels around the country? Why couldn't they put them up in the many hotels on MV.

hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

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hence my disdain for populism

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So, are you saying DiSantis is a populist? Are you one of those that think he would be a great candidate?

Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

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hence my disdain for populism

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Hokie, what is your definition of populism?

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Where are the people going I must follow them because I am their leader.

I prefer popularism - advocating for popular policies that are consistent with your principles and values.

hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

---

hence my disdain for populism

---

Hokie, what is your definition of populism?

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Where are the people going I must follow them because I am their leader.

I prefer popularism - advocating for popular policies that are consistent with your principles and values.

---

If that's your definition, then I'm against that as well. That's why I've said you could get rid of everyone in DC and start over. Heading into midterms, you're starting to see the PR rhetoric changing across the board.

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

---

hence my disdain for populism

---

So, are you saying DiSantis is a populist? Are you one of those that think he would be a great candidate?

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No, but the act of shipping sending people against their will to a place they don't know they are going to in order to stick it to your political opponents is a very populist idea. So is also sticking it to Disney to prove a political point with indifference to how the law you enacted actually hurts the counties that Disney is located in.

But otherwise, DeSantis has been relatively calculated and has sound, principled judgement. And I believe he believes what his policy stances are. And if he runs for President he has my vote.

Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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I don't totally disagree with you. But, it may get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

---

hence my disdain for populism

---

Hokie, what is your definition of populism?

---

Where are the people going I must follow them because I am their leader.

I prefer popularism - advocating for popular policies that are consistent with your principles and values.

---

If that's your definition, then I'm against that as well. That's why I've said you could get rid of everyone in DC and start over. Heading into midterms, you're starting to see the PR rhetoric changing across the board.

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but here's the thing, that's what your getting right now in candidate to vote for house and senate, the so called MAGA candidates. The ones that I like are labeled Rhinos and traders and I get ridiculed here as a Trump hater because I want more principled conservative candidates.

Fair enough

You know… I really don't like the term(s) populist or populism. I like the term constitutional conservative. Unfortunately, the country has moved so far left that it's going to take, and has taken, people to step up and say no more!

I understand why it's called populism as the populist is standing up and saying no more!

For the life of me, Hokie, I don't understand what is so wrong with those actions. For the longest time, the far left, has been standing up and society has changed. My opinion is that it hasn't been for the good. So, when people are standing up and saying, no more, then I support it.

The Republican Party has been complicit in the change in our society. The controlled opposition stance, they have taken, hasn't worked. I see the majority of the Republican Party as being feckless, at best! I continue to vote for the party, because the opposition is an abysmal group!

One other thing that disappoints me is the Country Club Republican. They speak all the right things, while we watch our country become decimated by China influence. I'm a fan of a true free-market, at the same time, we should have protectionism to our core economy. I know that word protectionism is going to scare off some; however, if some of you saw the "real" manufacturing process and the complete reliance our country has on China, I would hope you would see a massive security risk we have.

I'm not sure, I know, the right level of policy to protect the country's interest vs a free-market, but I do think we all should know the reality.

https://rumble.com/v1kktu5-del-rio-2021-15k-migrants-marthas-vineyard-2022-50.html

I've read through 3 pages of comments but have not seen a single post on why were these people sent to Florida to begin with? Is that by request?

High Travoltage said:

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Having a sign in your yard saying you welcome immigrants, when you dont, is not hypocritical. Damn, I guess I have been using the word wrong my whole life.

We have adults on here saying with a straight face Martha's Vineyard cant handle 50 people. Open your own backyard and guest room then if yall are so loving.

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If there is a will, there is a way…

Those people are elitist and want to virtue signal every time they can. These same people will probably vote for policy makers that think the country should accept any and all immigrants…

By default, voting for policy makers that will not do something, says you are willing to do something, on your own. So, for all these MV people, open up a bedroom and accept them into your life. The people on the border and the people throughout the country certainly have been asked to at least accept these immigrant in their communities…

It's time for them to accept their "Fair Share"!!

RaleighChan said:

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I've read through 3 pages of comments but have not seen a single post on why were these people sent to Florida to begin with? Is that by request?

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Does that really matter? At the end of the day, we have an invasion on our border. Governors are helping out fellow governors deal with the issue, at the border.

As I've said above, I'm not a fan of using these people for political purposes; however, I certainly see why they are doing it.

If I were a (true) Republican Governor, I would help each border state by sending my National Guard to the border, and step in front of the Border Patrol. Dare the President to stop me! Even if he got a court ordered restraint, I would say "screw you", I'm not changing my position. If you feel the need to lock me up, then so be it…

If you think that would be Banana Republic type actions, well, what the heck do we have now? These Far Left radicals need to be pushed back on, big time!!! The time for controlled opposition Republicans is OVER!!

Hokie, this so-called RINO, highly decorum'd Republican days are over! Those people have won more State and National elections than Democrats while we've lost the country! It's time to get on a new ship!

High Travoltage said:

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Having a sign in your yard saying you welcome immigrants, when you dont, is not hypocritical. Damn, I guess I have been using the word wrong my whole life.

We have adults on here saying with a straight face Martha's Vineyard cant handle 50 people. Open your own backyard and guest room then if yall are so loving.

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Thank you!