The Biden Administration..V3

149,092 Views | 3158 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by TheStorm
Oldsouljer
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Packchem91 said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Here's the problem I have with that comparison. And this is totally based off of my own research and things I've heard.

Clinton had 30-something thousand emails questioned in her investigation. Trump had boxes of documents.

When the investigation was under way, Clinton's lawyers turned over the emails "they deemed" relevant. Trump turned over 15 boxes.

Clinton's emails were on an insecure server and personal email address. Trumps documents were placed in a locked place at his home at the request of the agency. One of those is hackable by anyone in the world with ill intentions and the other is in a place that is secured by the Secret Service and would have to be physically stolen.

Clinton used the excuse of not knowing what a "C" on an email meant. Trump had the power to declare documents not classified.

After turning over the emails they deemed relevant, Clinton destroyed Blackberries, servers and computers. James Comey them deemed that things nightcap been mishandled but there was no intent.

After turning over 14 boxes and placing a lock to further secure the documents, Trumps house is raided and items taken from his home.

Now, you say Clinton is not like Trump because Trump and his people have been "willful" in how they've handled this situation. But, only one destroyed potential evidence. The FBI, it seems, never even got a chance to view the evidence in the Clinton case. It's more like they just took her team's word for it.

From where I sit, one of these things is not like the other. I don't think it's being handled in a similar fashion at all.

I hear you.

I'm not defending Hillary. She was found to have been careless and negligent with her email protocols.

Presidents have the power to declassify documents but Trump didn't declassify these and clearly should not have had them in Florida. It's not a hit job to investigate what he had and retrieve them.
It is crazy that one of the things that clearly propelled Trump to victory over HRC -- her carelessness with classified emails that led Trump, the entire GOP and all of us here to want to "lock her up", is going to bite him now. Its one of those things that was such a big deal, you think you'd be 100% squared away on it.

He might be 100% squared away in every respect. Doesn't matter to the Bidenites whom have had half a century to show everyone how unprincipled they are, from the moment that guy first got sent to DC. This entire affair looks purely political, and the passage of time isn't changing that perception.
Werewolf
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High Travoltage said:

Yall are semi-facists - Joe Biden

-while hiring 90 thousand armed IRS agents
-while mandating a vaccine that didnt stop the spread
-while waiving off student loans by saying we are still in a pandemic
-while ending title 42 in part because we are no longer in a pandemic
-while having the fbi take documents marked client priveldge from his main political opponent
-while using the fbi to keep facebook from spreading the laptop story that details how 'bought he is'

I could keep going of course. We need a new leader ASAP
Braveheart..........there was this guy. What did they do to him? He was willing to stand up and fight.
Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.


So, with the Hunter laptop you're in wait and see mode. With Trump you know he's pretty much guilty based on what you've heard?
hokiewolf
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Here's where I'm at with Trump:

1. I still don't think there's enough information out there to really tell us what the justification for executing a search warrant.

2. I still don't think he'll be prosecuted for anything.

BUT, for the guy who ran an entire campaign on the dubious (and criminal) events surrounding Hillary Clinton's personal server and chants at rallies of "Lock her up!", I would think at the end of his Presidency, Trump would have at least put forth effort to make sure that everything related to any documents was done by the book.

Haphazard planning and execution leads to future problems. If Trump and his team opened that door because of piss poor planning, then that's on them.
Steve Videtich
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What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
hokiewolf
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Steve Videtich said:

What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
Not documents, the process appears to have been completed haphazardly. I honestly don't care about what documents were or were not in Mar-a-Lago.

If you campaign on a failure of your opponent to adhere to the rules and processes of handling classified documents, you damn sure better make sure you follow the rules and processes to the "T" when it's your turn.
Steve Videtich
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hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
Not documents, the process appears to have been completed haphazardly. I honestly don't care about what documents were or were not in Mar-a-Lago.

If you campaign on a failure of your opponent to adhere to the rules and processes of handling classified documents, you damn sure better make sure you follow the rules and processes to the "T" when it's your turn.


Okay, I get that and don't disagree. But, what if it turns out to be much ado about nothing? No classified, not state secrets? Then what have we just witnessed?
hokiewolf
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Steve Videtich said:

hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
Not documents, the process appears to have been completed haphazardly. I honestly don't care about what documents were or were not in Mar-a-Lago.

If you campaign on a failure of your opponent to adhere to the rules and processes of handling classified documents, you damn sure better make sure you follow the rules and processes to the "T" when it's your turn.


Okay, I get that and don't disagree. But, what if it turns out to be much ado about nothing? No classified, not state secrets? Then what have we just witnessed?
an extreme overreach of power for political purposes.
caryking
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caryking said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.
Civ, I think you have a delusional view on reality. Trump, the person, will absolutely wave his magical hand and make documents declassified. It's up to people around him to go through the proper channels. In fact, one of the attorneys said exactly this.

If you think anybody gives a damn about these documents, you're kidding yourself. You absolutely know what the objective is!!!
Also, why do you think people like Shapiro, and other Republicans (establishment types) keep up the negative rhetoric? They know Trump is a major problem with the status quo, in Washington. If only people, like the republicans, on this board would see this, then, we wouldn't have such a divide within the party...

Ultimately, Trump will be too old to serve as president and we will need someone else. I'm a fan of most of his policies, therefore, anybody that comes to the table with the same policy set, then I'll get behind them. Right now, too many people support the man and his policies; so, we will be fractured...
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
caryking
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hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
Not documents, the process appears to have been completed haphazardly. I honestly don't care about what documents were or were not in Mar-a-Lago.

If you campaign on a failure of your opponent to adhere to the rules and processes of handling classified documents, you damn sure better make sure you follow the rules and processes to the "T" when it's your turn.


Okay, I get that and don't disagree. But, what if it turns out to be much ado about nothing? No classified, not state secrets? Then what have we just witnessed?
an extreme overreach of power for political purposes.
My prediction: this is what we will have, when all said and done...
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Steve Videtich
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hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

hokiewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

What kind of documents would you consider dangerous and haphazard?
Not documents, the process appears to have been completed haphazardly. I honestly don't care about what documents were or were not in Mar-a-Lago.

If you campaign on a failure of your opponent to adhere to the rules and processes of handling classified documents, you damn sure better make sure you follow the rules and processes to the "T" when it's your turn.


Okay, I get that and don't disagree. But, what if it turns out to be much ado about nothing? No classified, not state secrets? Then what have we just witnessed?
an extreme overreach of power for political purposes.


Thank you! I guess we'll see what happens.
hokiewolf
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caryking said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.
Civ, I think you have a delusional view on reality. Trump, the person, will absolutely wave his magical hand and make documents declassified. It's up to people around him to go through the proper channels. In fact, one of the attorneys said exactly this.

If you think anybody gives a damn about these documents, you're kidding yourself. You absolutely know what the objective is!!!
Also, why do you think people like Shapiro, and other Republicans (establishment types) keep up the negative rhetoric? They know Trump is a major problem with the status quo, in Washington. If only people, like the republicans, on this board would see this, then, we wouldn't have such a divide within the party...

Ultimately, Trump will be too old to serve as president and we will need someone else. I'm a fan of most of his policies, therefore, anybody that comes to the table with the same policy set, then I'll get behind them. Right now, too many people support the man and his policies; so, we will be fractured...
What exactly are Trumps policies now other than playing the victim re the 2020 election? Thats the majority of his speeches, Truths (whatever tweets are called on Truth Social), interviews, etc. have been since he left office. Has he made any policy speeches in the past year?
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.


So, with the Hunter laptop you're in wait and see mode. With Trump you know he's pretty much guilty based on what you've heard?

No.

I don't care about Trump's legal "guilt." I'm not arguing for any specific punishment here; my original statement was simply I disagreed with the characterization of it as a political hit. Based on what we know the FBI seemed fully justified to go investigate and determine what exactly he still had, and to bring whatever that was back.

We know Trump had documents he shouldn't have had at Mar-a-lago. The FBI was justified to go get them. He's not going to get prosecuted so the story will die down assuming nothing new or revealing comes out about his conduct while in possession of the information. That may be the end of that story.

What do we actually know about Hunter Biden's laptop? That's an honest question, the story is so convoluted that I honestly can't keep it straight.

A water-damaged computer was left at a computer shop by someone. Tthe legally blind computer store owner couldn't see them so doesn't know who dropped it, and once the damage was repaired it was never picked up. It was there for three years and then he started transferring files from it for some reason and found info he thought was compromising.

What else? Hunter Biden took some nudes, did some drugs. A Ukrainian legislator with strong ties to Russian intelligence and that had worked with Giuliani in Ukraine said he had a copy and that it contained compromising information.

Didn't the FBI take the laptop and go through it two years ago? Are we saying the FBI buried what they found? Or is the problem with the media, that they torpedoed the story?
caryking
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hokiewolf said:

caryking said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.
Civ, I think you have a delusional view on reality. Trump, the person, will absolutely wave his magical hand and make documents declassified. It's up to people around him to go through the proper channels. In fact, one of the attorneys said exactly this.

If you think anybody gives a damn about these documents, you're kidding yourself. You absolutely know what the objective is!!!
Also, why do you think people like Shapiro, and other Republicans (establishment types) keep up the negative rhetoric? They know Trump is a major problem with the status quo, in Washington. If only people, like the republicans, on this board would see this, then, we wouldn't have such a divide within the party...

Ultimately, Trump will be too old to serve as president and we will need someone else. I'm a fan of most of his policies, therefore, anybody that comes to the table with the same policy set, then I'll get behind them. Right now, too many people support the man and his policies; so, we will be fractured...
What exactly are Trumps policies now other than playing the victim re the 2020 election? Thats the majority of his speeches, Truths (whatever tweets are called on Truth Social), interviews, etc. have been since he left office. Has he made any policy speeches in the past year?
Hokie, the election fraud, from 2020, is rhetoric that people want to keep on forefront of all of Trumps speeches. Yes, he believes, wholeheartedly, that election fraud happened. So does a lot of people.

That said, his policies are the same. Domestic manufacturing, simple tax plan, reduced regulation (BTW, Trump reduced regulation more than anybody), All Country's paying there fair share to support NATO, and the likes... Then, allow the people to do their "own" life, within the laws of their "own" State. It's really that simple!
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/news/top-fbi-agent-resigns-after-allegedly-thwarting-hunter-biden-investigation-report/

Quote:

A top FBI agent based in Washington, D.C., reportedly resigned from his position last week after being accused of attempting to thwart a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden.

Timothy Thibault, an FBI assistant special agent in charge, was escorted out of the Washington field office by at least two "headquarters-looking types" last Friday, sources told the Washington Times on Monday.

Republican senator Chuck Grassley wrote to Wray in July that he believed the pair had orchestrated a "scheme" to "undermine derogatory information connected to Hunter Biden by falsely suggesting it was disinformation." The senator also alleged that Thibault had tried to shut down criminal probe pathways into the president's son until at least one month before the November 2020 election.

"Thibault allegedly ordered the matter closed without providing a valid reason as required by FBI guidelines … [and] subsequently attempted to improperly mark the matter in FBI systems so that it could not be opened in the future," Grassley said.

"In October 2020, an avenue of additional derogatory Hunter Biden reporting was ordered closed at the direction of ASAC Thibault… [when] all of the reporting was either verified or verifiable via criminal search warrants," the senator added.

Some Republicans have insisted that Thibault may have been motivated by malicious political bias, pointing to his social-media history, including a retweet of a Lincoln Project message that called former president Trump a "psychologically broken, embittered and deeply unhappy man."

Last week, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg admitted on Joe Rogan's podcast that Facebook suppressed stories about Hunter Biden's laptop before the 2020 election after the FBI told the company they should look out for Russian "misinformation."
It is disturbing to know that a handful of well placed, unelected individuals have so much power over political positions taken by a major government entity like the FBI. This maneuver clearly benefitted the often dishonest Democratic party to the detriment of our nation.

Perhaps the FBI needs to create a larger team of people from all political perspectives to act as an internal committee responsible for reviewing bureau decisions and crafting public responses relevant to major political campaigns prior to releasing statements that are bound to influence politics.
Civilized
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caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

caryking said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.
Civ, I think you have a delusional view on reality. Trump, the person, will absolutely wave his magical hand and make documents declassified. It's up to people around him to go through the proper channels. In fact, one of the attorneys said exactly this.

If you think anybody gives a damn about these documents, you're kidding yourself. You absolutely know what the objective is!!!
Also, why do you think people like Shapiro, and other Republicans (establishment types) keep up the negative rhetoric? They know Trump is a major problem with the status quo, in Washington. If only people, like the republicans, on this board would see this, then, we wouldn't have such a divide within the party...

Ultimately, Trump will be too old to serve as president and we will need someone else. I'm a fan of most of his policies, therefore, anybody that comes to the table with the same policy set, then I'll get behind them. Right now, too many people support the man and his policies; so, we will be fractured...
What exactly are Trumps policies now other than playing the victim re the 2020 election? Thats the majority of his speeches, Truths (whatever tweets are called on Truth Social), interviews, etc. have been since he left office. Has he made any policy speeches in the past year?
Hokie, the election fraud, from 2020, is rhetoric that people want to keep on forefront of all of Trumps speeches. Yes, he believes, wholeheartedly, that election fraud happened. So does a lot of people.

That said, his policies are the same. Domestic manufacturing, simple tax plan, reduced regulation (BTW, Trump reduced regulation more than anybody), All Country's paying there fair share to support NATO, and the likes... Then, allow the people to do their "own" life, within the laws of their "own" State. It's really that simple!

Trump is pandering to his audience by continuing the tired electoral fraud act. He's throwing red meat into the lion's cage.

Trump continuing to talk about electoral fraud 2.5 years later, to the clear detriment of the Republican Party, is on Trump.
caryking
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.


So, with the Hunter laptop you're in wait and see mode. With Trump you know he's pretty much guilty based on what you've heard?

No.

I don't care about Trump's legal "guilt." I'm not arguing for any specific punishment here; my original statement was simply I disagreed with the characterization of it as a political hit. Based on what we know the FBI seemed fully justified to go investigate and determine what exactly he still had, and to bring whatever that was back.

We know Trump had documents he shouldn't have had at Mar-a-lago. The FBI was justified to go get them. He's not going to get prosecuted so the story will die down assuming nothing new or revealing comes out about his conduct while in possession of the information. That may be the end of that story.

What do we actually know about Hunter Biden's laptop? That's an honest question, the story is so convoluted that I honestly can't keep it straight.

A water-damaged computer was left at a computer shop by someone. Tthe legally blind computer store owner couldn't see them so doesn't know who dropped it, and once the damage was repaired it was never picked up. It was there for three years and then he started transferring files from it for some reason and found info he thought was compromising.

What else? Hunter Biden took some nudes, did some drugs. A Ukrainian legislator with strong ties to Russian intelligence and that had worked with Giuliani in Ukraine said he had a copy and that it contained compromising information.

Didn't the FBI take the laptop and go through it two years ago? Are we saying the FBI buried what they found? Or is the problem with the media, that they torpedoed the story?
That statement is an opinion!. Nothing has been finalized about what he should have had and shouldn't have had. I'm sorry Civ, you can't make this stuff up...

You really need to think about what they really want... That will help in getting to realize what's truly happening. Now, I don't know what they really want; however, it's "NOT" (my opinion) these documents that are marked Top Secret and have been declassified, whether, you like the procedure of the declassification, or not...
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
caryking
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Civilized said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

caryking said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Wait... how do you know he didn't declassify them?

Because there are established procedures to declassify documents that even the President must follow and there's no evidence he followed them. This has been upheld by courts as recently as 2020.

He can't just wave his hand and declassify stuff. He's got to notify departments that also possess that information so they can act accordingly, etc.

Regardless in Mar-a-lago the FBI warrant didn't cite laws relating to classified documents. It cited the Espionage Act that protects info pertaining to national defense (classified or unclassified, doesn't matter).


That being said, you don't know that things weren't declassified. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. You just seem to be 100% sure on that. Do you have inside info we don't, or is that what the media is saying. Also you realize that things don't stay classified forever, right?

Another thing I wanted to ask, was regarding your statement, "What is the FBI or Justice Department supposed to do after they receive word from a confidential informant or whistle-blower that there are still more confidential documents just sitting at Mar-a-lago that weren't previously turned over?"

What are your thoughts regarding the whistle blowers saying that federal agencies have been squashing the Hunter Biden laptop? If all whistle blowers are equal, what are Americans to do when things like this happen?

Obv I don't have inside info.

But if Trump had declassified the docs through appropriate channels he and his team would have been quick to say so. Instead his statement talked about the legally dubious "standing order" he said he had to declassify all documents that left the building. That's a made-up way to declassify documents.

I think we're losing the forest for the trees to some extent with the Trump documents. Broadly, is it in America's best interests for him to handle classified or sensitive docs the way he did? Regardless of the legality, that answer is definitively 'no'. We should just say that - that the standing order declassification black voodoo magic is BS, he ****ed up and shouldn't have had the documents after he left office, and that's it.

Re: Hunter Biden, pull on the sweater string and see where the information goes. If it leads somewhere real, deal with the parties appropriately.

Nobody wins when we excuse bad actors no matter which side of the fence they're on.
Civ, I think you have a delusional view on reality. Trump, the person, will absolutely wave his magical hand and make documents declassified. It's up to people around him to go through the proper channels. In fact, one of the attorneys said exactly this.

If you think anybody gives a damn about these documents, you're kidding yourself. You absolutely know what the objective is!!!
Also, why do you think people like Shapiro, and other Republicans (establishment types) keep up the negative rhetoric? They know Trump is a major problem with the status quo, in Washington. If only people, like the republicans, on this board would see this, then, we wouldn't have such a divide within the party...

Ultimately, Trump will be too old to serve as president and we will need someone else. I'm a fan of most of his policies, therefore, anybody that comes to the table with the same policy set, then I'll get behind them. Right now, too many people support the man and his policies; so, we will be fractured...
What exactly are Trumps policies now other than playing the victim re the 2020 election? Thats the majority of his speeches, Truths (whatever tweets are called on Truth Social), interviews, etc. have been since he left office. Has he made any policy speeches in the past year?
Hokie, the election fraud, from 2020, is rhetoric that people want to keep on forefront of all of Trumps speeches. Yes, he believes, wholeheartedly, that election fraud happened. So does a lot of people.

That said, his policies are the same. Domestic manufacturing, simple tax plan, reduced regulation (BTW, Trump reduced regulation more than anybody), All Country's paying there fair share to support NATO, and the likes... Then, allow the people to do their "own" life, within the laws of their "own" State. It's really that simple!

Trump is pandering to his audience by continuing the tired electoral fraud act. He's throwing red meat into the lion's cage.

Trump continuing to talk about electoral fraud 2.5 years later, to the clear detriment of the Republican Party, is on Trump.
Opinion heard!!
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Steve Videtich
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So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?
Civilized
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caryking said:

That statement is an opinion!. Nothing has been finalized about what he should have had and shouldn't have had. I'm sorry Civ, you can't make this stuff up...

You really need to think about what they really want... That will help in getting to realize what's truly happening. Now, I don't know what they really want; however, it's "NOT" (my opinion) these documents that are marked Top Secret and have been declassified, whether, you like the procedure of the declassification, or not...

It's not an opinion and it's not based on whether the docs were classified or whether he used his Voodoo Magic to allegedly declassify docs through his made-up process.

The Presidential Records Act mandates that all documents created by presidents be turned over to NARA when their term ends. He was supposed to do this in January 2021.


In January 2022 he turned over 15 boxes to NARA containing documents he should have turned over in January 2021. 14 of the 15 boxes had classified or top secret info mixed in with newspapers, notes, and other unclassified communication.

More recently a judge found that there was sufficient probable cause to believe he or his team were potentially obstructing by not turning over additional privileged documents that they claimed they returned months ago.

The FBI seached and found 11 more sets of classified docs in their search earlier this month.

Are any of these facts in dispute?

Again, like I said yesterday, what should the FBI/Justice Department have done when they came into information that Trump likely still had confidential or privileged information at Mar-a-lago that he was supposed to have turned over in January 2021?

Said pretty-please?

At that point, your attorney has said you returned all the privileged information. If you didn't, you're either unwilling or incapable of turning all of it over. Either way, the FBI isn't going to ask you again, they're going to step in and investigate.
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.
GuerrillaPack
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Decent segment from FoxNews discussing the reason for Biden and the Left ratcheting up the rhetoric, and calling MAGA Republicans "fascists", "danger to democracy", etc. It is part of the larger communist agenda to criminalize their opposition (as happens in all nations where communists get power such as USSR, China, etc), and use the power of the state to increase censorship, spying on their opposition, and classify them as "domestic terrorists". This is already being done, with the travesty against the January 6th protesters languishing in jails, the FBI calling moms and dads at school board meetings who protest CRT "domestic terrorists", etc.


https://instagr.am/p/Ch3gKDKD7-Y
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.


But, they never got to do a full investigation because she destroyed the evidence before it could be reviewed by the FBI. And then it was determined that she may have mishandled classified documents but there was no willfull intent. What would your thought be right now had Trump burnt everything he had?

And stop saying he had this and that like you know. Nobody knows what he had. And if the Democrat reporting is true, then we have a bigger problem with leaks coming from the investigation. Talk about mishandling of sensitive materials!
packgrad
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"Facts" to civ are just leftist talking points he wants to believe. I remember when he used to speak about "facts" as it pertained to "RUSSIA!!!!", "good people on both sides", masks, transgenderism, etc.
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.


But, they never got to do a full investigation because she destroyed the evidence before it could be reviewed by the FBI. And then it was determined that she may have mishandled classified documents but there was no willfull intent. What would your thought be right now had Trump burnt enduring he had?

And stop saying he had this and that like you know. Nobody knows what he had. And if the Democrat reporting is true, then we have a bigger problem with leaks coming from the investigation. Talk about mishandling of sensitive materials!

Do you think the judge was unjustified in finding probable cause to execute the warrant at Mar-a-lago?
Marco
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"Tonight,I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone,but your dishonor will remain"Lez Cheney-6/2/2022!!
caryking
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.


But, they never got to do a full investigation because she destroyed the evidence before it could be reviewed by the FBI. And then it was determined that she may have mishandled classified documents but there was no willfull intent. What would your thought be right now had Trump burnt enduring he had?

And stop saying he had this and that like you know. Nobody knows what he had. And if the Democrat reporting is true, then we have a bigger problem with leaks coming from the investigation. Talk about mishandling of sensitive materials!

Do you think the judge was unjustified in finding probable cause to execute the warrant at Mar-a-lago?
Actually, a better question is... Do you think the affidavit should have been less redacted than it was? Otherwise, we have no idea what was the probable cause. And, just as important..., should our secrets be kept away from the people, in which, each of those idiots, in Washington, work for?
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Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.


But, they never got to do a full investigation because she destroyed the evidence before it could be reviewed by the FBI. And then it was determined that she may have mishandled classified documents but there was no willfull intent. What would your thought be right now had Trump burnt enduring he had?

And stop saying he had this and that like you know. Nobody knows what he had. And if the Democrat reporting is true, then we have a bigger problem with leaks coming from the investigation. Talk about mishandling of sensitive materials!

Do you think the judge was unjustified in finding probable cause to execute the warrant at Mar-a-lago?


Honestly speaking, I don't know. I don't claim to know 100% what they have. We certainly don't know what the affidavit actually says. With our all of the evidence in not sure I can make a declaration of justification. But, you mentioned obstruction of Justice. Both of our examples turned over what they thought was relevant but only one destroyed evidence.

Also, there is much debate on Trump's ability to declassified documents. So who knows.
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

So do you think trump's rhetoric around Hilary's emails at the time was a political hit job or justified?

Not sure what Trump rhetoric has to do with anything.

We're talking about the FBI's investigation of Trump being justified.

The FBI's investigation of Hillary's emails was certainly justified.


But, they never got to do a full investigation because she destroyed the evidence before it could be reviewed by the FBI. And then it was determined that she may have mishandled classified documents but there was no willfull intent. What would your thought be right now had Trump burnt enduring he had?

And stop saying he had this and that like you know. Nobody knows what he had. And if the Democrat reporting is true, then we have a bigger problem with leaks coming from the investigation. Talk about mishandling of sensitive materials!

Do you think the judge was unjustified in finding probable cause to execute the warrant at Mar-a-lago?


Honestly speaking, I don't know. I don't claim to know 100% what they have. We certainly don't know what the affidavit actually says. With our all of the evidence in not sure I can make a declaration of justification. But, you mentioned obstruction of Justice. Both of our examples turned over what they thought was relevant but only one destroyed evidence.

Also, there is much debate on Trump's ability to declassified documents. So who knows.

I hear you.

This still seems to be apples and oranges though. Nobody, myself included, is quibbling with Hillary being investigated by the FBI.

What I'm not clear on is why there's pushback regarding the FBI investigating what documents were at Mar-a-Lago, and why all the requested documents were not returned in January like Trump's legal team said they were.

The feds met the bar for probable cause in court. They're investigating.

I could understand the blowback of Trump was being charged with something, when Hillary was not in a roughly analogous circumstance. But we don't even know what the outcome of the investigation is yet.



Steve Videtich
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It's completely apples and oranges, just not in the way you're trying to explain it. They basically took Hillary's and her teams word for what they handed over and she and her team destroyed the rest. FBI said there is nothing else to see.

Trump and his team handed over what they thought was relevant and even locked up the rest at the FBI's request, but then raided his home. All because a "confidential wristle blower" said so. If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

You have to also understand where my argument is coming from. These last several years have seen mind boggling hypocrisy from the left. I'm not defending Trump because of who he is or what he stands for. I defend Trump because of the hypocritical arguments that are thrown at him constantly.

If he indeed broke a law, then he should be punished for it. But, you can't say that he did and in the previous argument say that Hillary did everything she should've and there was nothing to see there. That thought process is utterly mind blowing to me. If they found out that he destroyed any evidence, he would've been brought up on charges already.
caryking
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Steve, you know we have an affliction on this board…
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

It's completely apples and oranges, just not in the way you're trying to explain it. They basically took Hillary's and her teams word for what they handed over and she and her team destroyed the rest. FBI said there is nothing else to see.

Trump and his team handed over what they thought was relevant and even locked up the rest at the FBI's request, but then raided his home. All because a "confidential wristle blower" said so. If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

You have to also understand where my argument is coming from. These last several years have seen mind boggling hypocrisy from the left. I'm not defending Trump because of who he is or what he stands for. I defend Trump because of the hypocritical arguments that are thrown at him constantly.

If he indeed broke a law, then he should be punished for it. But, you can't say that he did and in the previous argument say that Hillary did everything she should've and there was nothing to see there. That thought process is utterly mind blowing to me. If they found out that he destroyed any evidence, he would've been brought up on charges already.

Both of them were extremely careless.

If Trump gets charged with a crime when Hillary didn't, I'll understand more where you're coming from.
GuerrillaPack
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The kid sniffin creeper is at it again... before getting into his speech foaming at the mouth to take your guns.





Quote:


Upon finding out that she's over his preferred age Brandon slowly turns to walk away with the awkward sound of his adult diaper rubbing presidentially against his pants resonating through the air.



"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
hokiewolf
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This is a good Twitter thread that explains the mechanics of the situation. I do t think O come to the same conclusion as this guy, but he is presenting good info

caryking
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hokiewolf said:

This is a good Twitter thread that explains the mechanics of the situation. I do t think O come to the same conclusion as this guy, but he is presenting good info


I didn't read the post, Hokie; however, his first sentence (unless I'm missing something), can't be true, right?
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
 
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