I'm a woman, so I belong on the women's team

9,532 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Oldsouljer
PackFansXL
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National Review article link

Quote:

Lia Thomas, who competed on Penn's men's team for three years, has ruffled feathers this season as the swimmer set pool, school, and Ivy League records. Critics have pointed out that Thomas has an unfair biological advantage from years of competing as a man.

One Penn parent told Sports Illustrated that while "Lia is a human being who deserves to be treated with respect and dignity," that it is "not transphobic to say I disagree with where she's swimming."

Thomas told the magazine that argument is disingenuous: "The very simple answer is that I'm not a man."

"I'm a woman, so I belong on the women's team. Trans people deserve that same respect every other athlete gets," Thomas said.

Thomas also denied media reports that Thomas has an attitude, including that the swimmer jokes about how easy it is to win races, that Thomas purposely swam slowly at a meet against Iszac Henig, a trans man who swims on Yale's women's team; and that Thomas is the self-proclaimed "Jackie Robinson of trans sports."

Of 37 swimmers on the team, sources told Sports Illustrated that six to eight of the swimmers are adamant supporters of Thomas while half the team opposes Thomas competing against women and the rest have disengaged from the debate.

"At stake here is the integrity of women's sports," the parents wrote in the letter to Penn and the Ivy League. "The precedent being setone in which women do not have a protected and equitable space to competeis a direct threat to female athletes in every sport. What are the boundaries? How is this in line with the NCAA's commitment to providing a fair environment for student-athletes?"

Now, Thomas is preparing to swim at the NCAA Women's Division I Swimming and Diving Championships, beginning March 16 in Atlanta. Thomas is a favorite to win individual titles in the 200- and 500-yard freestyle events, according to the report. The swimmer could even break collegiate records set by Olympians Katie Ledecky and Missy Franklin.
The NCAA has chosen a path that is exceedingly unfair to biologically female athletes. There is a very real possibility this side show will disrupt the championships next week. Some lady who would have won the title in her event will have to accept the fact that a biological man was allowed to steal her medal.

I know we have parents of State swimmers on this board. I wonder what they think of having to compete in this unfair situation. IMHO, the Penn parent quoted above has it right. Treat this individual with dignity and respect but don't allow them to compete against biological women.

The NCAA has chosen a path that is exceedingly unfair to biologically female athletes. There is a very real possibility this side show will disrupt the championships next week. Some lady who would have won the title in her event will have to accept the fact that a biological man was allowed to steal her medal.

I know we have parents of State swimmers on this board. I wonder what they think of having to compete in this unfair situation. IMHO, the Penn parent quoted above has it right. Treat this individual with dignity and respect but don't allow them to compete against biological women.
packofwolves
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Lia has physical characteristics/abilities that were developed as a male swimmer, regardless of current testosterone levels. I don't think it it is fair to women's swimming to let Lia compete.
statefan91
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No reason those born as biological males that have transitioned should be allowed to compete against women born as biological women. Musculature and hormones are so different.
packgrad
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Women swimmers should threaten to boycott. If their goal is to win, they certainly don't have a chance against the swimmer from Penn, It's unfortunate this swimmer has not chosen to treat the women swimmers in the NCAA with the respect and dignity she thinks she deserves.

Issues like this will continue to open eyes to the disease of wokeness the left has come down with. I'm sad that these women have to suffer their lifelong work and potential championships because of this though.
"I'm 100% an expert on what opinions I have written on this site"
cowboypack02
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packgrad said:

Women swimmers should threaten to boycott. If their goal is to win, they certainly don't have a chance against the swimmer from Penn, It's unfortunate this swimmer has not chosen to treat the women swimmers in the NCAA with the respect and dignity she thinks she deserves.

Issues like this will continue to open eyes to the disease of wokeness the left has come down with. I'm sad that these women have to suffer their lifelong work and potential championships because of this though.
It won't happen because of the perception that society will place on those women swimmers.

They'll be called bigots and transphobic if they say something negative about the confused guy in the pool with them
Mormad
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This angers my daughter to no end, and she is quite vocal about it. It seems most in her sport agree this is extremely unfair and want to see rule changes.
PackFansXL
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Swimming World Link

Quote:

Another issue that was broached in the interview was the locker room situation with Thomas, who although she has transitioned to being female hormonally and identified as a woman, still has male body parts, according to the report.

"It is definitely uncomfortable and has been expressed to our coach and members of the athletic department that people are uncomfortable with it," the teammate said. "We were basically told to, 'suck it up.'"
Mormad
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There's a link of a dude blasting this situation, and it's glorious. I'll ask my daughter if she can find it.

The nutless ncaa won't do anything here. Nobody will stand up for what is right for ciswomen because of fear of being labeled, and if they do it is always in anonymity. His own teammates are being told by coaches and admin to stfu. This dude said screw that noise.
Oldsouljer
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Mormad said:

This angers my daughter to no end, and she is quite vocal about it. It seems most in her sport agree this is extremely unfair and want to see rule changes.
And why not? It is a clever and diabolical backdoor attack on women. Conveniently for the likes of Thomas, this doesn't seem to be interpreted as a Title IX violation.
Gopack80
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We continue to let this madness progress. Even many common sense/conservative minded LGBTQ folks will dance around this one too much.

I agree with the parent quoted. Everyone deserves respect and dignity. That doesn't mean we should allow biologically male athletes to compete in female sports (and visa versa). That's not transphobic, homophobic, or disrespectful. It's just common sense. Which this country is severely lacking in these days.
Bell Tower Grey
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cowboypack02 said:

packgrad said:

Women swimmers should threaten to boycott. If their goal is to win, they certainly don't have a chance against the swimmer from Penn, It's unfortunate this swimmer has not chosen to treat the women swimmers in the NCAA with the respect and dignity she thinks she deserves.

Issues like this will continue to open eyes to the disease of wokeness the left has come down with. I'm sad that these women have to suffer their lifelong work and potential championships because of this though.
It won't happen because of the perception that society will place on those women swimmers.

They'll be called bigots and transphobic if they say something negative about the confused guy in the pool with them
Let'em get called whatever. It's past time for the majority of folks to stand up to the minority. If the trans crowd wants their own leagues, then go about things in the proper way to get them established and stop forcing your wants on everyone else.
cowboypack02
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Bell Tower Grey said:

cowboypack02 said:

packgrad said:

Women swimmers should threaten to boycott. If their goal is to win, they certainly don't have a chance against the swimmer from Penn, It's unfortunate this swimmer has not chosen to treat the women swimmers in the NCAA with the respect and dignity she thinks she deserves.

Issues like this will continue to open eyes to the disease of wokeness the left has come down with. I'm sad that these women have to suffer their lifelong work and potential championships because of this though.
It won't happen because of the perception that society will place on those women swimmers.

They'll be called bigots and transphobic if they say something negative about the confused guy in the pool with them
Let'em get called whatever. It's past time for the majority of folks to stand up to the minority. If the trans crowd wants their own leagues, then go about things in the proper way to get them established and stop forcing your wants on everyone else.


Believe it or not I support the guy pretending he's a girl and everyone on his team and he is competing against having to deal with it. Welcome to the real world where your beliefs have consequences...
Glasswolf
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I agree to recognize someone that wants to identify as the opposite of their birth gender. Males that identify as a female should not be able to complete in a females sport.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.


bigeric
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cowboypack02 said:

packgrad said:

...
It won't happen because of the perception that society will place on those women swimmers.

They'll be called bigots and transphobic if they say something negative about the confused guy in the pool with them
Please, don't impugn society by by attributing the demands of a a small, vocal, and vitriolic segment of it as societal norms.

Also, please direct me to the portion of the Constitution that grants the right to not have one's feelings hurt.
Like I said, if you can't get hyped for the Carolina game, why are you here?
-Earl Wolff-
cowboypack02
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bigeric said:

cowboypack02 said:

packgrad said:

...
It won't happen because of the perception that society will place on those women swimmers.

They'll be called bigots and transphobic if they say something negative about the confused guy in the pool with them
Please, don't impugn society by by attributing the demands of a a small, vocal, and vitriolic segment of it as societal norms.

Also, please direct me to the portion of the Constitution that grants the right to not have one's feelings hurt.

Society seems to give to those small, vocal, and vitriolic unfortunately
GuerrillaPack
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As we can see in the responses in this thread, the vast majority of people are opposed to this radical transgender agenda. It's not "society" that is pushing the transgender agenda. It's a very small minority of powerful far Left Marxists - who run universities, Big Tech, 99% of Establishment Lamestream media, and the communist Democrat party.

And why? Because Marxism is a Satanic agenda at its core. They oppose everything that God instituted, and want to invert reality.

As said previously, we as the vast majority who oppose this transgender insanity have to stand up and speak out and oppose this strongly.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Mormad
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PackFansXL
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Thanks for posting that, Mormad. I agree that this is a terrible decision by the uNCAA. This is wrong and terrible for Women's sports of all types.

Watching this happen helps me understand how the moral citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah must have felt as traditional standards for decency were replaced by the absence of any standards at all. Evil seems to move through a culture like a virus infecting once clear thinking people with aberrant behavior.

I pray that Will Thomas returns to his senses and the NCAA corrects their position before Women's athletics is ruined for all biological females.
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/news/conservative-group-files-title-ix-complaint-over-upenn-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas/

Quote:

Concerned Women for America on Thursday filed a federal civil rights complaint against the University of Pennsylvania for allowing transgender swimmer Lia Thomas to compete on the school's women's swim team.
The conservative, evangelical Christian group accuses the university of "refusing to protect the rights of college female athletes" under Title IX in a complaint filed with the Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights.
"Thomas is anatomically and biologically a male with physical capacities that are different from anatomically and biologically female athletes, which extends an unfair advantage and strips female student-athletes of opportunities afforded to them by law," CWA said in a press release.
CWA alleges that allowing Thomas to compete in the Ivy League and NCAA is a "direct violation" of Title IX, a measure that prohibits sex-based discrimination in education.
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/transgender-and-womens-rights-activists-clash-as-lia-thomas-dominates-opening-of-ncaa-championships/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=third

Bell Tower Grey
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Daviewolf83
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Thomas is a cheat. It is biological doping and it should not be allowed. Today, Thomas beat three Olympic medalists to win the 500 yd freestyle championship. To me, Emma Weyant is the real winner of the race and the only one I will recognize. Thomas is considered the favorite to win tomorrow's 200 yd freestyle championship and will likely win the 100 yd championship as well.

One of Thomas' teammates had this to say (anonymously of course):

"The teammate, who refused to give her name for fear of repercussions, told Fox News Digital that Thomas's participation in D1-sanctioned women's events has 'completely ruined the integrity of the sport.'"

I was happy to see a VaTech swimmer speak publicly today and call out this absurdity. I am worried the trans-rights mob will now come for her for speaking out publicly on the situation.

I invite people to watch the following video with a lengthy statement from the mother of a female Ivy League swimmer. She goes into great detail about the situation, how the other swimmers have been bullied into silence, and the effects on the female swimmers.

Daviewolf83
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I think this picture says it all. I am sure the three women on the right will be attacked by the woke mob and activists, but what they did with this action tells you how they feel about this situation.

Mormad
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I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
Werewolf
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Now that's just about as American as baseball and Mom's apple pie!
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Daviewolf83
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Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
It is also possible her public support for Thomas was coerced and this is her opportunity to show her true feelings. Just like you, I have no way of knowing what is in someone's heart, but every picture tells a story and those stories are relative to someone's point of view.

My point of view is this - the physical separation of the three female swimmers on the right conveys a message to me. It is symbolic. Just like it did when the Ivy League swimmers walked out holding hands before one of the last events at their conference championships (mentioned in the video I posted above). It conveys a message and communicates something silently - a message the Ivy League swimmers were banned from speaking about publicly.
Bas2020
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Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
Brooke Forde is likely forced by her far left loon father to express those beliefs.
packofwolves
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Daviewolf83 said:

Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
It is also possible her public support for Thomas was coerced and this is her opportunity to show her true feelings. Just like you, I have no way of knowing what is in someone's heart, but every picture tells a story and those stories are relative to someone's point of view.

My point of view is this - the physical separation of the three female swimmers on the right conveys a message to me. It is symbolic. Just like it did when the Ivy League swimmers walked out holding hands before one of the last events at their conference championships (mentioned in the video I posted above). It conveys a message and communicates something silently - a message the Ivy League swimmers were banned from speaking about publicly.


I think many have been directed to be silent and/or are afraid to speak out. Unfortunately I think it will take drastic measures to prevent this from happening again. Boycott the races transgenders swim in or boycott the entire meet. And it's the women swimmers that will suffer again by taking this extreme action.
Daviewolf83
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packofwolves said:

Daviewolf83 said:

Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
It is also possible her public support for Thomas was coerced and this is her opportunity to show her true feelings. Just like you, I have no way of knowing what is in someone's heart, but every picture tells a story and those stories are relative to someone's point of view.

My point of view is this - the physical separation of the three female swimmers on the right conveys a message to me. It is symbolic. Just like it did when the Ivy League swimmers walked out holding hands before one of the last events at their conference championships (mentioned in the video I posted above). It conveys a message and communicates something silently - a message the Ivy League swimmers were banned from speaking about publicly.


I think many have been directed to be silent and/or are afraid to speak out. Unfortunately I think it will take drastic measures to prevent this from happening again. Boycott the races transgenders swim in or boycott the entire meet. And it's the women swimmers that will suffer again by taking this extreme action.
As it was mentioned in the video I posted, specific directions were given to Ivy League swimmers to not say anything negative about the situation. I would be shocked if other collegiate swim teams have not done the same thing.

As you are probably aware, teams can require athletes to communicate things publicly that they may not agree with communicating. As it was pointed out to us very early in the recruiting process, playing a college sport is a privilege and not a right and as a result, athletes can be required to communicate things they may not agree with personally to maintain this privilege. Some athletes may not have had to face this situation and if they have not, they are fortunate. I, on the other hand, am personally aware of some athletes who have not been so fortunate.

I am in a position to fully understand why the athletes will go along with this in order to have the ability to participate. It comes down to having the ability to do something you love versus having this ability taken from you. Given those choices, you will go along with it. You have heard the term "throwing the baby out with the wash water." You can chose to publicly voice your opinion, but you may end up throwing out the baby at the same time. It is a very difficult and complicated decision and the people who are making these demands of the athletes know what they are doing. They know they can control the athlete and they can use coercion to do so - they are not above doing it. The same goes with the swim coaches for these teams. They may not agree with it, but they have to chose between saying what they believe publicly and being unemployed.
Mormad
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Bas2020 said:

Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
Brooke Forde is likely forced by her far left loon father to express those beliefs.



Idk. She's leaving Stanford and swimming to do 2 yrs in the Peace Corp in Peru and seems really excited about it. I'm sure Daddy and Stanford shaped her, but her liberalism doesn't seem forced. Look, i hate what this is doing to women's swimming but the fact that Brooke is in that picture and there are 4 other girls in the top 8 not in the pic suggests to me that interpreting this pic as a message may be misrepresenting what these girls were doing. These girls all know each other and take these little side pics together all the time. Maybe they ARE sending a message, and I'd think that was awesome. I just doubt they're actually doing that, and now they will be judged one way or another for taking an innocent picture together that some guy throws on Twitter to support his agenda. I like the guy's feelings on this matter, but I'm not sure he should be using these girls as his pawns. I'll leave it at that and walk away. This will just start arguments here.
Daviewolf83
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Mormad said:

Bas2020 said:

Mormad said:

I'm not sure what to think of that picture. Brooke Forde, the Stanford girl, had been really open in her support of Thomas. Maybe she changed her mind, or this picture doesn't represent her feelings. I have no clue.
Brooke Forde is likely forced by her far left loon father to express those beliefs.



Idk. She's leaving Stanford and swimming to do 2 yrs in the Peace Corp in Peru and seems really excited about it. I'm sure Daddy and Stanford shaped her, but her liberalism doesn't seem forced. Look, i hate what this is doing to women's swimming but the fact that Brooke is in that picture and there are 4 other girls in the top 8 not in the pic suggests to me that interpreting this pic as a message may be misrepresenting what these girls were doing. These girls all know each other and take these little side pics together all the time. Maybe they ARE sending a message, and I'd think that was awesome. I just doubt they're actually doing that, and now they will be judged one way or another for taking an innocent picture together that some guy throws on Twitter to support his agenda. I like the guy's feelings on this matter, but I'm not sure he should be using these girls as his pawns. I'll leave it at that and walk away. This will just start arguments here.
As always, I am very appreciative of your posts and perspectives. In this case, you are uniquely qualified to comment on what is happening with women's sports. I have been concerned for several years about the impact of these new policies (equating biological sex and gender) on women's opportunities in sports. I really thought rational people would prevail, but this no longer seems to be the case and it makes me very sad.
Mormad
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Me too
Bas2020
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What would your reaction be if Thomas Allen put on a wig next year and dropped 50 per game competing against women in the ACC?


I actually hope some "dude" does this just to make a mockery out of the entire situation.
Mormad
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In an Instagram story, a recruit reposted a picture of silver medallist emma weyant and replaced second place with "national champ" lol. Now that's a message.
Steve Videtich
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Bas2020 said:

What would your reaction be if Thomas Allen put on a wig next year and dropped 50 per game competing against women in the ACC?


I actually hope some "dude" does this just to make a mockery out of the entire situation.


That was the question I asked my wife. What happens if a volleyball player decides they will identify as female. In volleyball the net height is different for men and women.
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