Dave Doeren: "I Know How Big This Game Is To NC State"
When No. 23 NC State faces No. 14 UNC this week, it will be the first ranked matchup between the schools since 1993. The Wolfpack will have its work cut out for it with quarterback Devin Leary likely out for the regular season.
Head coach Dave Doeren spoke to the media via Zoom to kick off the rivalry week, here’s a full breakdown of everything he had to say:
Opening Statement
Starting off with our game with Duke, I’m proud of the team on how we battled back. Obviously, we got off to a bad start momentum wise, giving up a blocked punt. Operation time was good, but we need to do a better job formationally. It was a nice job by Duke in that situation to stem in their front putting us in a situation where we had a short edge. I thought coach Goebbel adjusted as the game went on and did some good things to clean that up.
I’m really impressed with the way we played complementary football. We had to overcome ourselves in this game. Not to take anything away from Duke, but when you have eight penalties for 106 yards in the first half, turn the ball over twice in the first quarter, it’s tough. In the second half we did not have penalties, we just played football. It’s amazing what happens when you don’t beat yourself. Those are immature things by a young football team that we’ve got to learn from and learn from now. I think it’s great for them to be able to see the difference in the product when they are making the decisions that they are coached to make.
They blocked a punt for a touchdown, and we matched them. We blocked a punt for a touchdown. We had three turnovers. We matched them with three takeaways on defense. So, our guys responded to the situations that they were in, and I think that says a lot about the resiliency of this team.
I can’t say enough about the guys that stepped into their roles, not just in this game but throughout the year. We’ve had a lot of that, whether it was a targeting ejection or an injury. In this particular game, Isaac Duffy-Webb performed really well. He graded out at 91 percent, had no mistakes, had two tackles on third down. Devan Boykin came in and had a pass breakup in the end zone. Bryson Speas continues to play multiple positions on the offensive line. Dylan McMahon played the most he’s played this year on the offensive line. Those guys are battling. Are they playing perfect? No, but we talk about next-man-up mentality, and I think what I’m most proud of is that the next man up is performing like the guy was in front of him in most cases.
That along with the team rallying around those guys and guys taking advantage of their opportunity. Sometimes you’ll have a guy as a backup that may not be playing as much as he wants, and he’s not going to prepare the same way. He doesn’t have the same intensity in his preparation or his practice. We’re not doing that. I told the team that I like practice right now because the ones are competing, the twos are competing, our scout team is competing. That’s allowing us to have the situations that we are on game day, where all of a sudden a guy’s name is called and each week it has been a different player that didn’t expect to have the reps he got that was ready to play. That’s been fun as a coach just to see.
Positives on offense, I thought we made some really good contact catches in this game. Devin Leary gave guys a chance, and they made the plays. We were very efficient on third down. When you combine our third and fourth downs together, we were 50 percent. We were 100 percent scoring in the red zone, and I thought we played our most physical football in the fourth quarter. I thought there was a lot of straining, a lot of competing on the O-line, tight end and running back group. We were very physical, and I like seeing that, as you know.
Negatives, turning the ball over three times is going to put you in a very difficult situation. It’s hard to win games doing that. So, we have to do a better job with the fundamentals. Two fumbles. Devin had the ball low on the sack fumble. He’s got to be able to pull the ball up as a quarterback when you’re in traffic and take care of it, and then Bam [Knight]’s got to put two hands on the football when he’s got all those guys hitting him. The three penalties on offense were critical penalties. All three of them were third-down or fourth-down plays that would have been first downs that we then had to redo the third down and then had to punt. All three were drive stoppers.
Obviously the injury to Devin is tough for him and us. I hate that for a young man that’s worked so hard and played so well. The positive news is that he’ll have a normal, healthy recovery. It’s nothing that will haunt him from an injury standpoint, but it will probably keep him out of the regular season. But we’ll see how fast he can heal. I know Bailey [Hockman] and Ben [Finley] and Ty [Evans] are excited about their opportunity. They’ll work hard with coach Beck to help us be ready to win games. That’s what it is all about; maximizing your opportunity and the guys around you helping to the best of their ability.
On defense, we held their running backs to 1.2 yards per carry. That was a goal going into the game. We thought their two backs were the strength of their offense. We were really good on third down. We were 75 percent efficient on third down as a defense. I thought coach Gibson did a nice job of mixing different things up. We played different drop-eight coverages, we rushed four, we rushed five, we rushed six. The goal-line stand, for the third time this season, I think shows the resiliency and toughness, and really the detail. It’s not just being tough. They run a bootleg and both guys are completely covered in the route, and [Levi Jones] does a phenomenal job tackling the quarterback in space on a boot.
The three takeaways and the one in the red zone by [Payton Wilson], our first interception of the game was a big momentum play. We only gave up three explosive plays, none in the pass game, which is really hard to do in college football right now. Two of the explosive runs were quarterback keeps that shouldn’t have been there. It was a poor job discipline wise by two of our players on those two runs. We had a blitz on one and Tanner [Ingle] just chased the ball instead of playing technique. The other one, C.J. Hart didn’t do his job. So, things that are correctable.
Obviously losing a third player on the season for targeting is coaching. We’ve got to do a better job. Our players have got to understand the strike zone. They’ve got to play with their eyes up. They’ve got to understand that they can’t launch, they can’t lead with the crown of their helmet. It has to get fixed, and that is something that we will get fixed. It’s obviously something that they are doing to protect football players. I thought the defensive penalty on Payton was immature on his part on the sideline. That hurt us. These are things that we’ve got to correct.
Our special teams were kind of mixed in this game. There was some really bad and some really good. Obviously, you can’t give up a blocked punt for a touchdown and give up four penalties on special teams. Those things are atrocious. But, we responded. We had some good kickoff returns. We had a blocked punt for a touchdown. I thought our kickoff coverage was outstanding. I thought Chris Dunn made a clutch field goal at the end of the game to make it a two-score game.
So, there’s some good things. There’s good effort, there’s just got to be better execution. I think the guys are buying into preparing. They’re practicing with an edge. They’re seeing the results of their effort.
Now we get to play a really good cross-town team. It’s a game that’s been going on since 1894. I know it’s a game that means a lot to both school’s fan bases, boosters and football clubs and teams and coaching staffs. It’s going to be a hard-fought game. They’re a very well-coached, veteran team with a lot of skill, a lot of team speed. Obviously they’re coming off a tough loss, but one in which I think they played really well in the second half. It really was a tale of two halves for them down there.
They are 3-1, as you guys know. They’re an explosive offense. Their receivers do a nice job. They’ve got a blend of size and speed, and you know [Sam Howell]’s a tremendous quarterback. Their two tailbacks are really good players. They’re different from each other. They’re both explosive, both good in the run and the pass game. They don’t turn the ball over a lot. They’ve got a big offensive line. The tight end, [Garret Walston], is a good player. It’s going to be a good football game. It’s a great opportunity to play against a really good offense.
Defensively, they lost some good defensive linemen last year. They look improved in the secondary, to me. I think their linebackers are the same kids. [Chazz Surratt] and [Jeremiah Gemmel] do a great job. They are active. They blitz a lot. They give you a lot of different presentation on defense. They’re in both odd and even fronts. They’ll play cover-two, cover-three, cover-one, and they’re bringing different pressures from all over the place, similar to what we saw in some of the snaps with Virginia. They press you up on the outside. They’ve got big corners that are physical.
It’s going to be a great challenge, a great opportunity and I look forward to playing them, as we do every year. It’s a chance to play against a top-20 team on the road again. It’s a chance for our team to overcome some things injury wise and really go up there and fight against a veteran team.
How much has cross training and making sure the depth players were ready in camp because of COVID help now?
I think that contributed to it. I think our practices, the way they were set up early on before we had to stop everything, we were getting ones, twos, threes and fours reps because we just didn’t know what could happen at that time. We were kind of early in the process. Then we had the stoppage, and when we restarted practice there were only 45 guys. Some of those were our threes and fours. The ones and twos weren’t even at practice. So, we’ve really repped everybody in a different way, and we’ve cross-trained guys, as you know, at different positions in case things happened.
You’re seeing that pay off. [Ikem Ekwonu] played guard, now he is playing tackle. Speas has played guard and tackle. Dylan McMahon has played center and guard. All those things we did in training camp are now paying off. Same thing at safety. Devan Boykin has played both safety spots. Isaac Duffy-Webb has played nickel and strong safety. We’re having to do that. You’re seeing Cecil Powell play corner and dime and nickel.
There’s guys that are going to have to fill those spots and have been able to do that because of, I guess you’d say, the preventative measures that we took. The unfortunate part of it is now it’s not COVID that’s playing us, it’s some of the injuries at the same position group. We’ve just kind of had some piled up injuries on the O-line and in the secondary that are really testing our depth.
How has Bailey Hockman grown since last year and in his starts earlier this year?
I think he knows our offense. I think he’s in a different position as a teammate. I’ve said this earlier, but when you transfer in as a QB, or as anybody really, you’re not a part of a recruiting class. You’re kind of your own lone soldier, and you are trying to win a job at the same time. So, it’s hard to get to know your teammates the same way that you do in year two. I think he’s more comfortable here. I think he’s got a good circle of people. He can just be himself. I think he understands what his role was. He was a very positive teammate. He’s very energetic around his friends and teammates.
Now it’s just taking advantage of an opportunity. I don’t think he’ll tell you that he thought he played well Saturday. He did some good things. He did some things that he could do better. Now it’s just pouring all that energy into it. We’ve got to get Ben and Ty ready too because they’re a play away from being in the game. We’ve got to get some reps into those guys here in our offense and make sure all three of them are ready to play.
What do you like about Ben Finley and what allowed him to jump Ty Evans?
They were pretty much in the same category. Ty had an injury that kept him out for a long time that allowed Ben to get reps and just gain more knowledge and timing with the offense. That’s kind of where that went. Ben’s just got more reps right now. The thing you like about Ben is he’s very smart. He has great spatial awareness. He sees things very well, gets the ball out quick. He can run. I think that’s the one thing that separates him from any of those guys is that he can really run. He’s a good athlete.
I was hoping we wouldn’t end up in that scenario where he has to play because you want to get the year in the weight room, I guess you would say, for a freshman quarterback. But at this point, like I said, him and Ty have got to be ready to go out there and help us. I know they’ll put their time in.
Do you think it will help Hockman to be the guy and not have to worry about Leary coming in if he makes mistakes?
He’s just got to play confident football. He’s got to run the system. He’s got to quit worrying about things that could happen if he doesn’t play the way he’s supposed to play. He’s just got to go play football and let it all go. I think for him, it’s just one play at a time. I thought he played really good against Wake Forest. We just need him to get back to that. I know he’ll prepare the right way. It’s his time. It’s a matter of him taking advantage of the opportunity. Like I tell the players all the time, ‘you’re going to have an opportunity at some point in time. It’s up to you to be ready.’ Now it’s his opportunity to go show himself and everybody out there what kind of player he can be. He doesn’t have to go be Superman. He just needs to run the offense. That’s it.
Has Hockman shown more confidence the last few days knowing he’s the guy?
No, I mean he’s not gonna all of a sudden change who he is. I think he’s excited, but he’s got to put the work in. I think that’s what you see. He’s just sitting down learning what we see, what are the things that we’re gonna do. This point of the week is pretty cerebral at that position. We don’t practice until tomorrow. Yesterday was a lot of film, a lot of talk. We went out and walked through some things. But tomorrow will be the first day we really get in there and start cranking up the game plan with them.
Can the defense playing well help Bailey and the other quarterbacks by putting them in better situations?
I think it’s a team game and when you’re playing complimentary football, offensively, there’s less pressure. You don’t have to go out there and score a touchdown every possession to feel like you’re going to win. As long as every offensive possession ends with a kick, we should be in the game if we play good defense and good special teams, and we’re doing that now.
The defensive front is playing a lot better. Our linebackers are making a ton of plays, and the secondary has kept things in front of them. If we play like that and keep getting the dog bone out on the sideline every now and then, good things are going to happen for whoever that quarterback is, because they’re going to have field position and momentum.
A couple of the last times you were at Kenan Memorial Stadium, you were very excited leaving the field. What did those three victories mean to you at the time?
I know how big this game is to NC State, former players, boosters, alums, all those things. So I take a lot of pride in being able to deliver that to our fan base. I lost to them in year one, so the first win over there was when Jacoby Brissett had a heck of a game. So it was great to get my first win over them over there. I probably can’t do this in the proper order, but one of the wins over there probably saved my job. That was the year we missed a field goal against Clemson, went on a skid, then all of the sudden we finished strong and that one got us in a bowl game. So that was an emotional win.
But any time you play a rivalry that’s been going back since 1894, any time you play a game like this and you win it, whether it’s home or away, it’s emotional. Unfortunately, one of them was kind of ruined, because we had a fight afterwards and felt like we were dealing with all that crap after the game instead of the win. But I think with this football team, their football team, this coaching staff, their coaching staff, it’s about the kids. These guys work so hard. When you go in the locker room after an emotional win on either side, you’re going to feel that, and you can’t just play it off. It means a lot to you.
Mack Brown mentioned something about it being 27 years since these two teams have met with both being ranked. He said it was a testament to how much high school football has developed in the entire state of North Carolina. How have you seen the talent pool and level of play on the high school level grow?
I would agree with Mack on that. Some of this goes to the high school coach’s association. They’ve allowed them to develop players better in my opinion. They’re doing more on-field things, obviously not now with COVID, but the last three or four years, they’ve been able to do more football. They used to have this rule where they could only have 21 players at a practice in the spring. Now they’ve changed that so they can have a true spring practice where they’re getting their teams out on the field and developing them. The weight room programs are obviously better.
Some of these kids are obviously investing more in the sport. You see them going to trainers and doing extra things from a strength and conditioning standpoint. We all know that Raleigh and Charlotte are fast-growing cities as well so your population increase means there’s more talent from that standpoint. But I do think it’s not only helped us but all the teams in the state. There’s a lot of good football teams in our state, not just in the ACC. You’re seeing that, I think, state-wide.
Obviously the takeaway bone brings more energy, but what else is there to it that guys are getting more takeaways?
Two games ago, it was the line of scrimmage tipping the football twice. Tips, we say tips are picks. I think C.J. Clark got his hands on a ball. I can’t remember who the other one was. We had two tips. In this game, one of the picks, Drake Thomas got to the quarterback and forced a bad throw, and Payton Wilson got under it. The other one, Payton just broke on it. The quarterback didn’t see him. I think there’s just a mixture. When you’re talking about interceptions, there’s a lot of things that go into them. It’s not just the DB or linebacker making a play. Sometimes you have pass rush, sometimes you confuse the quarterback with coverage. So they all kind of tie together. Sometimes it’s just a big-time play that’s made.
All those things are happening right now, so I think defensively we are playing faster than we did last year, if you just watch the speed that’s being played with. Guys are running around. We’re blitzing with a blitz mentality; I didn’t think we were doing that earlier in the year. I felt like we were kind of oozing off the ball on some of our pressures. I feel like guys are hitting it more sudden, which from a quarterback standpoint, gives you less time to throw. [Tony Gibson]’s done a nice job of changing things up. There’s not just one coverage you’re looking at; there’s quite a few different pictures for that quarterback to have to look at and figure out.
You mentioned guys playing faster, is that a matter of them just thinking less and knowing what to do being a year older and being able to make plays?
I think there’s several things in there. I think Tony should get some of the credit; I think he’s simplified things for them. We’re not checking and doing a bunch of things at the line of scrimmage. We used to check a lot. There’s a few things we have to say here and there. But we’re playing ball. We’re talking more about what the offense is doing and less about what we’re doing. ‘Here’s how you line up, now let’s look at their stances, let’s look at the back set, let’s look at the tight end location, let’s look at the receiver splits. What’s the down and distance.’ We’re playing football as opposed to having to memorize a million things. I think that’s really freed them up.
The second thing is just our front. I feel like the guys up front, our rotation that we have in there, there’s not as much drop off between our ones and twos on the D-Line. And so as we rotate, C.J. Clark and Alim McNeill are both playing at a high level at nose tackle right now. At the defensive end position, I think Ibrahim Kante and Savion Jackson have gotten a lot better as the season’s gone on. And then Daniel Joseph comes in and gives us something. That helps when you can rotate guys like that. As long as we can continue to keep them fresh.
I think we had a problem at linebacker a couple weeks ago when we couldn’t rotate. Coach Gibson didn’t feel as good about the rotation, and now those kids have earned playing time. You see Jaylon Scott come in, he maybe only takes 15 snaps off Isaiah Moore but that helps Isaiah play faster. Levi Jones comes in and takes a few snaps off of Drake, so now all of the sudden Drake can play faster, C.J. Hart. That depth is important when you’re playing these tempo offenses that run 80-100 plays on you. You’ve got to be able to get some fresh legs in there.
Mack Brown said he felt that his team was overrated and the Wolfpack was underrated. How do you feel about that?
That’s nice of him to say that. I don’t really look at it like that. Every week, we’ve got to prove ourselves, whether they pick us to win. Whether it’s no spread or we’re underdogs, we’ve got to show up. None of these rankings matter until the end of the season. It doesn’t matter where we’re rated right now. It didn’t matter last week. It didn’t matter the week before. It won’t matter until we play our last game. I think his team played really bad in the first half and played really, really good in the second half. I’m sure he’s saying he wants that team to be the team that plays every game. That team is a really good team for UNC, that second-half team. So he’s got a very good football team; he’s got a veteran football team. He’s got a lot of speed on his football team. I think he’s poor-mouthing that group a little bit right there. I think he’s got a really good football team.
Do you worry about Bailey Hockman getting outside the pocket and running now that he’s the guy?
I think he needs to play the offense. I think he needs to stay in the pocket when he has good protection. He took a sack the other night that he had no business running out of the pocket. He had great protection. He could have stood there for 10 minutes, and he runs out and gets himself sacked. So he needs to trust the protection when it’s there and give his receivers time to get open. If things break down, he needs to use his feet, because he can run. Running to run and running when you need to run are two different things. Understanding you have time in certain rushes, knowing your protection and trusting that the guys are going to take care of you.
Payton Wilson had a great game Saturday, did you see other things on film that made that a special performance outside the numbers?
He plays so hard. He’s finally back in shape. I think when he had to take that two weeks off with quarantining, that set him back conditioning wise. But it’s more just all around. He’s starting to play with his hands better. He was just running into things when the season started. He’s separating from blocks and staying playable, as we call it. He’s blitzing better. He’s not just running into things, he’s trying to slither through some things then run through some things. His run fits were really good.
His tackling was really good other than the one screen. He missed a tackle on their one touchdown down there. I think as he continues to get in game shape, which he’s probably in really good game shape now, he’s going to continue to make more and more plays. One things about Payton, he plays as hard as he can play. That is visible. I really respect that about him, just the effort that he plays with. Now it’s just about, similar to how Bradley Chubb was here, sometimes his aggression gets the best of him. He’s got to really learn how to channel that and use it the right way every play.
Payton Wilson was once committed to Carolina but said the culture at NC State was more for him. How do you define this rivalry, is it the culture of the two schools?
I don’t exactly what their culture is, so I don’t want to speak on something I don’t understand. I know what our culture is. It’s blue-collar. I’ve said it many times, I came to NC State because I felt like I fit in. It’s a bunch of people that work hard and like to have a good time together. Very intelligent people, but very hard-working people. The blue collar, hands in the dirt program, that’s what we’re all about here. If you look at our fan base, they support every sport. They don’t just support football. I love them. You go to a wrestling match, it’s sold out. You can go to women’s basketball and it’s sold out. You come to football, it’s sold out. You go to men’s basketball, it’s sold out. So they don’t just support football, they support student athletes. I think that makes our fans very special. That’s what we’re all about here. I think their school probably has their definitions of what they’re all about.
What kind of a relationship do you have with Mack Brown and how much interaction did you have with him when he was at ESPN?
I’ve known Mack a long time. When I was at Kansas, he was the head coach at Texas. I recruited Texas and would run into him from time to time. I competed against him. He was always a great mentor in the business to a lot of young coaches. He’s a first-class guy. When I came here, he congratulated me when he was with ESPN. Now that we’re on the other side of things competing against each other, we’re not talking the same way as we used to, but I know that there’s respect from both sides. He’s done a great job since he’s come back, and obviously the last time he was there he did a great job as well.