America is not free; The perfect form of government is a theocracy

5,830 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by GuerrillaPack
GuerrillaPack
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And by theocracy, I specifically mean the form of government that was originally given to the Israelites by God after they came into the promised Land. What could be more perfect than the form of government God initially gave them?

Initially, the Israelites had no king. The only law they had was the Law of God (eg, Ten Commandments, etc). The only system of government was a system of judges who merely implemented the Law of God. So they only had a judiciary branch of government, and no executive or legislative branch. There also was no police force. The citizens acted as the police force.

After a few hundred years of living under the system of the judges, the Israelites then rebelled against God and demanded a king. Before giving them king Saul, God warned the Israelites to not go down that path, warning that they would go under tyranny and oppression, including the King taking "a tenth" of their property/income, as recorded in 1 Samuel 8:10-12.

You are not free when you are forced to pay ~40% of your labor or income to the government as we are in America -- after Federal, state, and local taxes, property tax, sales taxes, gas tax, etc. Even most of the serfs of feudalistic Europe did not have to pay that high of a percentage of their income to their lords. In the Old Testament, it records that when the Egyptians were enslaved, they "only" had to pay Pharoah 20% of their crops/income.

And we cannot truly own property in America. That ended with the "property tax", which is the 2nd plank of Marx's Communist Manifesto, calling for RENT on land. Remember that Marx advocated for the abolition of private ownership of property. That has been implemented as America has gone under a socialist/communist system.

America was founded as a free nation. We are holding onto some of those freedoms (1st and 2nd amendment), but rapidly losing even those and have already lost many, including the 4th amendment, the right to own property and the right to our labor.

Here is an excellent sermon I watched on this subject recently. If you haven't heard of this preacher, Steven Anderson, he's made waves over the past several years as one of the most hardcore independent fundamentalist Baptist preachers:



Glasswolf
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I've shared you post with over a dozen ministers of all faiths, including the Pentecostal Preacher from my 20's and my now retired baptist preacher of 47 years father in law. They all suggest you seek professional help somewhere soon.

Next you're going to tell me Paul wasn't a disciple. or apostle
Payton Wilson on what he thought of Carter Finley: Drunk Crazy Crowded

barnburner
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I look forward to going back to that form of government when the 'elders' were in their 30s' and died by their early 40s' and there was famine type sickness from time to time and no healthcare to boot. Waste handling was so easy back then!! Our problems were small when most towns had few residents. Even the huge population centers of those times were tiny by today's standards. Everybody was the same and looked the same because there were not as many potential mates. You were probably cousins with a 1/3 of the town. At least we only had to pay 10% to God back then,

I know you want TV and internet and clean water and transportation and roads and food variety and information and electricity and cars and gas and clean air to breathe and probably national defense (and national offense so we can go get what someone won't give us). But the 10% that's going to God ain't getting much of that done.

I'm so happy this particular forum is not engaging in this inane banter but sad it's not getting much run as a result. It's interesting the most commented thread is about Bourbon and then there was a little bit of pre-election talk. Maybe there would be more discussions if there wasn't always stuff like this and over-reactions to any little thing someone of note does or says in every thread. I'm sad that it rolls that way and I hope we all will try to come back away from the fringes just a bit. Peace




GuerrillaPack
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What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
NCSUWarrior
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GuerrillaPack said:

What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
Your theories seem to assume all people in the United States (or the world for that matter) are Christian. Of course the reality is quite the opposite.

How do reconcile these differences of religion in the United States with a central christian theocratic government?

Also, the theocratic model does somewhat exist, albeit under Islam, in Iran. Do you believe their form of government is superior to the United States?

I'll hang up and listen.
GuerrillaPack
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NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
Your theories seem to assume all people in the United States (or the world for that matter) are Christian. Of course the reality is quite the opposite.

How do reconcile these differences of religion in the United States with a central christian theocratic government?

Also, the theocratic model does somewhat exist, albeit under Islam, in Iran. Do you believe their form of government is superior to the United States?

I'll hang up and listen.
Of course I recognize that all people in the United States and the world are not Christian. But I am specifically talking about the United States of America, which was founded by men (predominantly) who believed in the God of the Bible and based the founding of the nation upon the principle of protecting their God-given rights.

An islamic theocracy is not superior to the current government of the United States, because the god of Islam is actually Satan. And I mean that literally. "Allah" is another name for Satan. Mohammed received his revelation from demons, and those who follow him are unknowingly following Satan. Living in an islamic theocracy/society is living under Satanic tyranny.

Given that the United States is populated by peoples of vastly different and irreconcilable religious and cultural beliefs, I think the best course of action is to split the nation into several different nations. One of those nations would be the theocracy I'm talking about with the Bible as the basis for its law.

One of the other nations could be the multicultural, socialist country that the United States currently is. That nation can then devolve into a Cuba/Venezuela-style communist hellhole. Then you could have an islamic caliphate for the islamic peoples currently living inside the United States. And potentially other nations for different ethnic and religious groups. And no one would be forced to join any of these nations, under this scenario. They could freely choose which one they wanted to join.

And before anyone says it's "crazy" to talk about secession or splitting up the nation....that very thing is how the United States was founded as a nation. The essence of America is people rejecting tyrannical government and, if necessary, throwing off an existing government and declaring their independence and founding a new nation.
NCSUWarrior
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GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
Your theories seem to assume all people in the United States (or the world for that matter) are Christian. Of course the reality is quite the opposite.

How do reconcile these differences of religion in the United States with a central christian theocratic government?

Also, the theocratic model does somewhat exist, albeit under Islam, in Iran. Do you believe their form of government is superior to the United States?

I'll hang up and listen.
Of course I recognize that all people in the United States and the world are not Christian. But I am specifically talking about the United States of America, which was founded by men (predominantly) who believed in the God of the Bible and based the founding of the nation upon the principle of protecting their God-given rights.

An islamic theocracy is not superior to the current government of the United States, because the god of Islam is actually Satan. And I mean that literally. "Allah" is another name for Satan. Mohammed received his revelation from demons, and those who follow him are unknowingly following Satan. Living in an islamic theocracy/society is living under Satanic tyranny.

Given that the United States is populated by peoples of vastly different and irreconcilable religious and cultural beliefs, I think the best course of action is to split the nation into several different nations. One of those nations would be the theocracy I'm talking about with the Bible as the basis for its law.

One of the other nations could be the multicultural, socialist state that the United States currently is. That nation can then devolve into a Cuba/Venezuela-style communist hellhole. Then you could have an islamic caliphate for the islamic peoples currently living inside the United States. And potentially other nations for different ethnic and religious groups.
Hypothetical here. I want to know your thoughts on how this new theocratic nation will be formed and governed.

Let's say I'm a Hindu who previously purchased land and a home in the geographic footprint of the "new" theocratic nation, let's call it the United States of Christians (USC). The land and home was under the law of the United States of America when I purchased, but now power has transferred, peacefully I'm assuming. Due to this upheaval in government, I no longer want to live in the USC. Will the USC government purchase my land at market value? Pay for my relocation? Purchase of my business? Stocks? Mining rights? The list goes on. Where does that money come from?

What is the most likely way the USC is formed? Peacefully? War? What geographic region of the country?

Another question

Would the USC conduct commerce with U.S.? Any other non-Christian non-theocratic governments? Sign treaties with any other non-theocratic nations? Would the USC's beliefs allow for economic transactions around the globe?

Another question

How does USC handle commerce laws....like net neutrality. How does the USC deal with the regulation of energy? Environment? Health Care? Transportation?

Another question

Let's say I'm a Catholic. Am I accepted in the USC?







GuerrillaPack
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NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
Your theories seem to assume all people in the United States (or the world for that matter) are Christian. Of course the reality is quite the opposite.

How do reconcile these differences of religion in the United States with a central christian theocratic government?

Also, the theocratic model does somewhat exist, albeit under Islam, in Iran. Do you believe their form of government is superior to the United States?

I'll hang up and listen.
Of course I recognize that all people in the United States and the world are not Christian. But I am specifically talking about the United States of America, which was founded by men (predominantly) who believed in the God of the Bible and based the founding of the nation upon the principle of protecting their God-given rights.

An islamic theocracy is not superior to the current government of the United States, because the god of Islam is actually Satan. And I mean that literally. "Allah" is another name for Satan. Mohammed received his revelation from demons, and those who follow him are unknowingly following Satan. Living in an islamic theocracy/society is living under Satanic tyranny.

Given that the United States is populated by peoples of vastly different and irreconcilable religious and cultural beliefs, I think the best course of action is to split the nation into several different nations. One of those nations would be the theocracy I'm talking about with the Bible as the basis for its law.

One of the other nations could be the multicultural, socialist state that the United States currently is. That nation can then devolve into a Cuba/Venezuela-style communist hellhole. Then you could have an islamic caliphate for the islamic peoples currently living inside the United States. And potentially other nations for different ethnic and religious groups.
Hypothetical here. I want to know your thoughts on how this new theocratic nation will be formed and governed.

Let's say I'm a Hindu who previously purchased land and a home in the geographic footprint of the "new" theocratic nation, let's call it the United States of Christians (USC). The land and home was under the law of the United States of America when I purchased, but now power has transferred, peacefully I'm assuming. Due to this upheaval in government, I no longer want to live in the USC. Will the USC government purchase my land at market value? Pay for my relocation? Purchase of my business? Stocks? Mining rights? The list goes on. Where does that money come from?

What is the most likely way the USC is formed? Peacefully? War? What geographic region of the country?

Another question

Would the USC conduct commerce with U.S.? Any other non-Christian non-theocratic governments? Sign treaties with any other non-theocratic nations? Would the USC's beliefs allow for economic transactions around the globe?

Another question

How does USC handle commerce laws....like net neutrality. How does the USC deal with the regulation of energy? Environment? Health Care? Transportation?

Another question

Let's say I'm a Catholic. Am I accepted in the USC?

These are "logistical" questions, going into great detail. I haven't sat down and planned this all out on a logistical level to that level of detail. And we don't have to. I'm just talking about the core concepts.

Are you suggesting that these logistical questions would prevent such a secession from being possible? If so, that's not the case at all. These same sort of logistical questions could have been asked before the Declaration of Independence in 1776. Such as, "would someone loyal to Great Britain be forced to move from the USA, and will they be compensated for their land?".

These sort of logistics could be very easily worked out, if any secession or splitting up of the nation were to occur.

I would greatly prefer that these new nations could be formed peacefully. If I were Donald Trump right now, I would facilitate this taking place. As a start, I would encourage the ongoing movement in California to secede. If socialists and leftists want to leave the U.S. to form their their little communist "utopia", I say great. I wish it could be done immediately. I would not fight them, and there would be no need for war. I would help them to secede as quickly as possible.
NCSUWarrior
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GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:

What I'm saying is not "crazy". Any person who considers themselves a Christian or believes the Bible should agree that the perfect form of government would be being ruled by the perfect Law of God. What kind of government will people live under when the Messiah returns to earth? A theocracy.

As discussed in the sermon I posted, this is relevant to the condition of our current government in America (as well as worldwide). We are living under tyranny because we have rejected God (as the Israelites did), and thought that it would be "better" to be ruled by men and all the rules that mankind can come up with.

The Founding Fathers of the United States founded the nation, in part, upon the principles of God. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, the basis for founding the nation was that our "Creator" had endowed us with rights, and those rights were being violated. But the Constitution is not a perfect system -- because it is not completely based in the law/principles of God. Its flaw is allowing man to make "law", which supersedes the perfect laws of God. Then, as has taken place all over the world throughout history, what eventually occurs is that evil men with ambition eventually seize control of government and use it to exploit and oppress the people.

The Bill of Rights is an attempt to restrain the government and prevent it from violating our God-given rights. But that has clearly failed. In addition, other key aspects of the U.S. government were not founded, from the beginning, upon laws of God -- such as not establishing a prohibition against usury.

The entire system of democracy and rule of a majority is what is truly crazy. There is no security or stability, because you are constantly worried that a government will be voted into power which will take away our rights, and further oppress the people. What is needed are ABSOLUTE standards of morality and law, which no man can change. That can only come from a "Higher Power" than man.
Your theories seem to assume all people in the United States (or the world for that matter) are Christian. Of course the reality is quite the opposite.

How do reconcile these differences of religion in the United States with a central christian theocratic government?

Also, the theocratic model does somewhat exist, albeit under Islam, in Iran. Do you believe their form of government is superior to the United States?

I'll hang up and listen.
Of course I recognize that all people in the United States and the world are not Christian. But I am specifically talking about the United States of America, which was founded by men (predominantly) who believed in the God of the Bible and based the founding of the nation upon the principle of protecting their God-given rights.

An islamic theocracy is not superior to the current government of the United States, because the god of Islam is actually Satan. And I mean that literally. "Allah" is another name for Satan. Mohammed received his revelation from demons, and those who follow him are unknowingly following Satan. Living in an islamic theocracy/society is living under Satanic tyranny.

Given that the United States is populated by peoples of vastly different and irreconcilable religious and cultural beliefs, I think the best course of action is to split the nation into several different nations. One of those nations would be the theocracy I'm talking about with the Bible as the basis for its law.

One of the other nations could be the multicultural, socialist state that the United States currently is. That nation can then devolve into a Cuba/Venezuela-style communist hellhole. Then you could have an islamic caliphate for the islamic peoples currently living inside the United States. And potentially other nations for different ethnic and religious groups.
Hypothetical here. I want to know your thoughts on how this new theocratic nation will be formed and governed.

Let's say I'm a Hindu who previously purchased land and a home in the geographic footprint of the "new" theocratic nation, let's call it the United States of Christians (USC). The land and home was under the law of the United States of America when I purchased, but now power has transferred, peacefully I'm assuming. Due to this upheaval in government, I no longer want to live in the USC. Will the USC government purchase my land at market value? Pay for my relocation? Purchase of my business? Stocks? Mining rights? The list goes on. Where does that money come from?

What is the most likely way the USC is formed? Peacefully? War? What geographic region of the country?

Another question

Would the USC conduct commerce with U.S.? Any other non-Christian non-theocratic governments? Sign treaties with any other non-theocratic nations? Would the USC's beliefs allow for economic transactions around the globe?

Another question

How does USC handle commerce laws....like net neutrality. How does the USC deal with the regulation of energy? Environment? Health Care? Transportation?

Another question

Let's say I'm a Catholic. Am I accepted in the USC?

These are "logistical" questions, going into great detail. I haven't sat down and planned this all out on a logistical level to that level of detail. And we don't have to. I'm just talking about the core concepts.

Are you suggesting that these logistical questions would prevent such a secession from being possible? If so, that's not the case at all. These same sort of logistical questions could have been asked before the Declaration of Independence in 1776. Such as, "would someone loyal to Great Britain be forced to move from the USA, and will they be compensated for their land?".

These sort of logistics could be very easily worked out, if any secession or splitting up of the nation were to occur.

I would greatly prefer that these new nations could be formed peacefully. If I were Donald Trump right now, I would facilitate this taking place. As a start, I would encourage the ongoing movement in California to secede. If socialists and leftists want to leave the U.S. to form their their little communist "utopia", I say great. I wish it could be done immediately. I would not fight them, and there would be no need for war. I would help them to secede as quickly as possible.
I'm pretty bored today and this "Brickyard 2.0" needs some entertainment.

First and foremost, you are proposing treasonous behavior to the United States. It's no different than South Carolina succeeding from the U.S. in 1860. The reasons are different (taxation issues in the cloak of religion), but the outcome would be the same.

There is some history, I believe, you may be misinterpreting in regards to the American colonists. A significant portion of them left to escape religious persecution from the English Church, a theocracy similar to which you propose (before you go there......it was probably already infiltrated by Satan and taxation). Their worship of Jesus did not align with the English Church, so they left. When those same people had a chance to develop their own government, their forefather's persecution was still fresh in their minds. Hence, they made the 1st amendment to read as follows:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Pure genius. It took thousands of years for somebody to put that on paper and actually mean it.

The "logistic" questions? Well, I wanted to see just how much thought you really put into this. It doesn't appear too much. I was hoping you would make the leap of judgement on how the 10 commandments can somehow provide guidance on something like energy or environmental regulation. You didn't take the bait, so we move on.

So in summary, I completely disagree with your proposal. A theocracy is not the best form of government. History has taught us again and again and again. Contrary to what I suspect you believe, there is not a ground swell of people in this country who want a government you propose. People rights to freedom in this country are stronger than they ever have been, including yours. The fear mongering that you and your ilk spread are dangerous and self serving. Muslims and minorities are not going to take away your freedoms. The United States government is not going to take away your bible, or your gun, or your right to make a living, or your property.

Your theocracy may have lower taxes, but you'll still pay the hidden "Tithe" tax. The man always gets his, be it in the form of a god, a president, or a king. Something tells me, you are not going to be the man. So any form of government will affect you negatively. If history is correct (and it usually is) there will be significant bloodshed to achieve this new country. Tons of cost there....but hey cheap taxes....lost my son and brother.

My advice, would be to take the energy you expended to compose and echo-chamber this idea and place that energy in a manner which provides productive activity for your family, your community, your church, and your country, the United States of America.

Also, you never answered my question...logistics I guess. Do Catholics get in? What about Jews? Do the Jews need to forcibly moved to Jerusalem instead, to be reformed into Christians around rapture time? Dispensational pre-millennialism I believe it is called.

Anyways, I would love to hear your thoughts.
PackBacker07
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"America was founded as a free nation."

Yes, if you were a white, wealthy, land-owning, Protestant male, then I guess you are correct.
Y'all means ALL.
GuerrillaPack
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PackBacker07 said:

"America was founded as a free nation."

Yes, if you were a white, wealthy, land-owning, Protestant male, then I guess you are correct.
Well, that is essentially true. The Founding Fathers were effectively "white nationalists".

Per the Naturalization Act of 1790, only "free white persons of good character" could become citizens of the United States. With the exception of free blacks allowed citizenship on the state level in a few states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

Quote:

The original United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103) provided the first rules to be followed by the United States in the granting of national citizenship. This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were free White persons of good character. It thus excluded American Indians, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians, although free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in certain states. It also provided for citizenship for the children of U.S. citizens born abroad, stating that such children "shall be considered as natural born citizens," the only US statute ever to use the term. It specified that the right of citizenship did "not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."

GuerrillaPack
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NCSUWarrior said:



I'm pretty bored today and this "Brickyard 2.0" needs some entertainment.

First and foremost, you are proposing treasonous behavior to the United States. It's no different than South Carolina succeeding from the U.S. in 1860. The reasons are different (taxation issues in the cloak of religion), but the outcome would be the same.



Are the leftists in California who are organizing the secession of the state of California also "traitors", by your standard? Were the American Founding Fathers "traitors" to Great Britain?

The states and people in those states freely joined the Union. As a general matter, people and states should also be free to leave the Union any time they please. That is true freedom, and self-determination. The southern states were perfectly within their rights to leave the Union in 1860. The Northern states acted as tyrants to force them to stay.

Being a "traitor" to a tyrannical government is not wrong. The Declaration of Independence states that it is our right and duty to "throw off" a tyrannical government.

So, when you boil it all down, what really matters is your stance as it pertains to liberty and tyranny. It matters if you support freedom, or if you support tyranny. And what ultimately matters, in the grand scheme of life, is whether you love God, or whether you are a rebel and traitor to God. And your position with God correlates with your position on freedom. That is the true measure of where a person stands.

If you want to talk about treason, the real traitors inside the United States are those who support the destruction of the Bill of Rights. A major goal of Leftists/Democrats is effectively destroying the 2nd Amendment. And both Democrats and Republicans have supported the erosion and near destruction of the 4th Amendment.

NCSUWarrior
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GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:



I'm pretty bored today and this "Brickyard 2.0" needs some entertainment.

First and foremost, you are proposing treasonous behavior to the United States. It's no different than South Carolina succeeding from the U.S. in 1860. The reasons are different (taxation issues in the cloak of religion), but the outcome would be the same.



Are the leftists in California who are organizing the secession of the state of California also "traitors", by your standard? Were the American Founding Fathers "traitors" to Great Britain?

Yes to California. No to founding fathers. Taxation without representation.

The states and people in those states freely joined the Union. As a general matter, people and states should also be free to leave the Union any time they please. That is true freedom, and self-determination. The southern states were perfectly within their rights to want to leave the Union in 1860. The Northern states acted as tyrants to force them to stay.

Joining....yes. Leaving no, not without significant justification. In the context of 1860, slavery and the southern economy was significant justification. Comparing today's federal government to a communist/socialist regime is incorrect. I don't believe your justification holds the same muster as 1860. To leave a union, there has to be a darn good reason. Yours is not good enough....therefore treasonous.

Being a "traitor" to a tyrannical government is not wrong. The Declaration of Independence states that it is our right and duty to "throw off" a tyrannical government.

Well....the U.S. government is not tyrannical. Just because you have to pay taxes, doesn't mean the government is tyrannical. You vote for your representation.

So, when you boil it all down, what really matters is your stance as it pertains to liberty and tyranny. It matters if you support freedom, or if you support tyranny. That is the true measure of where a person stands.

Complete gibberish.

If you want to talk about treason, the real traitors inside the United States are those who support the destruction of the Bill of Rights. A major goal of Leftists/Democrats is effectively destroying the 2nd Amendment. And both Democrats and Republicans have supported the erosion and near destruction of the 4th Amendment.

Some dems want to change the 2nd amendment and ban guns. To actually change the constitution...there is no appetite for that in the U.S. It's political posturing to the mouth breathers. Just like abortion is political posturing to the mouth breathers on the right.

You have a point on the 4th and it has eroded due to surveillance and technology. I concede. However, I don't think succeeding from the U.S. is the answer.


See answers and rebuttals above. Also, can you answer my question below.

Do Catholics get in? What about Jews.

I would really like an answer.
GuerrillaPack
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NCSUWarrior said:




The "logistic" questions? Well, I wanted to see just how much thought you really put into this. It doesn't appear too much. I was hoping you would make the leap of judgement on how the 10 commandments can somehow provide guidance on something like energy or environmental regulation. You didn't take the bait, so we move on.

So in summary, I completely disagree with your proposal. A theocracy is not the best form of government. History has taught us again and again and again. Contrary to what I suspect you believe, there is not a ground swell of people in this country who want a government you propose. People rights to freedom in this country are stronger than they ever have been, including yours. The fear mongering that you and your ilk spread are dangerous and self serving. Muslims and minorities are not going to take away your freedoms. The United States government is not going to take away your bible, or your gun, or your right to make a living, or your property.

Your theocracy may have lower taxes, but you'll still pay the hidden "Tithe" tax. The man always gets his, be it in the form of a god, a president, or a king. Something tells me, you are not going to be the man. So any form of government will affect you negatively. If history is correct (and it usually is) there will be significant bloodshed to achieve this new country. Tons of cost there....but hey cheap taxes....lost my son and brother.

My advice, would be to take the energy you expended to compose and echo-chamber this idea and place that energy in a manner which provides productive activity for your family, your community, your church, and your country, the United States of America.

Also, you never answered my question...logistics I guess. Do Catholics get in? What about Jews? Do the Jews need to forcibly moved to Jerusalem instead, to be reformed into Christians around rapture time? Dispensational pre-millennialism I believe it is called.

Anyways, I would love to hear your thoughts.
You really are a condescending one, aren't you? You fancy that you are so intellectually superior, that you are just "baiting" and "playing" with people of my "ilk", as you post here?

Muslims aren't going to take away our freedoms? Are you serious? Just how stupid do you think people are? Do you think we also believe that "Islam is a religion of peace", as the ivory tower Leftists tell us? In most muslim countries, women can't own property or have jobs and are forced to cover their entire bodies, no freedom of speech and death penalty for "insulting islam", etc.

I'm not "fear mongering". I'm facing reality. The reality is that our liberties are under attack in America. We have been going under a socialist/communist system over the past half century, which is why we now pay ~40% of our income to the government. The government now spies on all of our activity with impunity, and the 4th Amendment is effectively nullified. We can't truly own property (property tax), nor pass on wealth to our offpsring (estate tax). Etc.

Did people in Soviet Russia have freedom? Do people in communist China have freedom? If things keep going as they are in the United States, and something approaching full-blown communism is brought to America, we will also have our freedoms destroyed. That is not "fear mongering". This is what is occurring. This is what the Democrats/Left are openly pushing for. It is clear that they want to confiscate firearms and full disarmament of the population, as well as censorship of conservatives and dissidents to the Communist agenda (eg, under "hate speech" laws). The socialists/Marxists have already accomplished this tyrannical agenda in most of Europe (banning guns, mass censorship and hate speech laws, etc).
NCSUWarrior
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GuerrillaPack said:

NCSUWarrior said:




The "logistic" questions? Well, I wanted to see just how much thought you really put into this. It doesn't appear too much. I was hoping you would make the leap of judgement on how the 10 commandments can somehow provide guidance on something like energy or environmental regulation. You didn't take the bait, so we move on.

So in summary, I completely disagree with your proposal. A theocracy is not the best form of government. History has taught us again and again and again. Contrary to what I suspect you believe, there is not a ground swell of people in this country who want a government you propose. People rights to freedom in this country are stronger than they ever have been, including yours. The fear mongering that you and your ilk spread are dangerous and self serving. Muslims and minorities are not going to take away your freedoms. The United States government is not going to take away your bible, or your gun, or your right to make a living, or your property.

Your theocracy may have lower taxes, but you'll still pay the hidden "Tithe" tax. The man always gets his, be it in the form of a god, a president, or a king. Something tells me, you are not going to be the man. So any form of government will affect you negatively. If history is correct (and it usually is) there will be significant bloodshed to achieve this new country. Tons of cost there....but hey cheap taxes....lost my son and brother.

My advice, would be to take the energy you expended to compose and echo-chamber this idea and place that energy in a manner which provides productive activity for your family, your community, your church, and your country, the United States of America.

Also, you never answered my question...logistics I guess. Do Catholics get in? What about Jews? Do the Jews need to forcibly moved to Jerusalem instead, to be reformed into Christians around rapture time? Dispensational pre-millennialism I believe it is called.

Anyways, I would love to hear your thoughts.
You really are a condescending one, aren't you? You fancy that you are so intellectually superior, that you are just "baiting" and "playing" with people of my "ilk", as you post here?

You are proposing treason. I want to know where you stand. No one else called you out. I will.

Muslims aren't going to take away our freedoms? Are you serious? Just how stupid do you think people are? Do you think we also believe that "Islam is a religion of peace", as the ivory tower Leftists tell us? In most muslim countries, women can't own property or have jobs and are forced to cover their entire bodies, no freedom of speech and death penalty for "insulting islam".

Where has shariah law been instituted in the US?


I'm not "fear mongering". I'm facing reality. The reality is that our liberties are under attack in America. We have been going under a socialist/communist model over the past half century, which is why we now pay ~40% of our income to the government. The government now spies on all of our activity with impunity, and the 4th Amendment is effectively nullified.

I think you should go take a look at what the federal tax rates were in 1968. Eye opening. We are not under a socialist or communist model. Not even close.
Answers and rebuttals above. My questions still stand.

Do Catholics get to join in the country? I'm asking for a friend. What about the Jews? If this goes down I would like to know.

GuerrillaPack
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NCSUWarrior said:

GuerrillaPack said:




You are proposing treason. I want to know where you stand. No one else called you out. I will.


Sure, you are "calling me out". But you have not provided a valid argument to support your positions and accusations -- especially on the question of what constitutes treason and whether we are living under tyranny in the United States.

The crux of your argument seems to be that we just do not live under enough tyranny to justify secession. When will it be enough? When we are forced to pay 60% of our income to the government in taxes? When not only has the government destroyed the 4th Amendment and is illegally spying on everything we do, but when they also abolish the right to trial by jury? When they effectively ban all firearm ownership except for small caliber single shot rifles and shotguns, as the socialists/Left has already done in most European nations?

I'm a "traitor" as much as the Founding Fathers were "traitors" to the tyrannical government they lived under.

As I mentioned earlier, what really matters in the grand scheme is where a person stands on the issues of liberty and God. We should not (and do not) owe our ultimate loyalty to the government that we just so happen to live under. I don't worship the government. If a government is tyrannical, it should be opposed. We owe our ultimate loyalty to God.

The real traitors in our society are those who are traitors to God and traitors to human liberty and freedom -- ie, by supporting the tyrannical socialist/communist system that we live under.
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