TraCha4 said:

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With everything that we have gone through in 2020, it's amazing how some people can't see how quickly your freedom can be taken away with a country run by Democrats.

Not to mention the fundamental difference in beliefs of being a Christian vs what the Democratic Party says is acceptable in this world.

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Absolutely. I don't understand how anyone who claims to be a Christian could ever vote for the Democrats/Left -- just based on the issue of abortion alone, as well as the homosexual/transgender issue.

The Leftist hostility to Christian values can be fully understood once you recognize the Marxist ideological roots of the Left. Karl Marx (and his cohorts who established communism) were fundamentally enemies of Christianity. Marx called religion "the opiate of the masses". They wanted "secular" or atheist societies. And this is what happens wherever communists/Left take over power. The Soviet Union and communist China are officially atheist societies, where religion is either outright banned or severely repressed. And in most European nations which are now socialist-controlled, while religion is not outright banned, it has been severely attacked (via the public education system and Leftist run media), such that most of the society now rejects Christianity.

Marx and his allies, and the modern leaders of the Marxist movement, publicly advocate atheism. But in reality they are Satanists. A very good book that exposes this is "Marx and Satan" by Richard Wurmbrand -- which exposes from the private letters, poems, and other writings of Karl Marx that he was actually a practicing Satanist.

When you really dig down deep, the truth is that communism is fundamentally a Satanic agenda. The true end goals of communism is to overthrow the once existing Christian values of Western society, and establish an atheistic society where this Satanic elite exercise total power and control -- and can confiscate the wealth of the masses, economically exploit the masses, and even "legitimately" murder and "exterminate" those people who resist their tyrannical takeover.

Civilized said:

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TraCha4 said:

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With everything that we have gone through in 2020, it's amazing how some people can't see how quickly your freedom can be taken away with a country run by Democrats.

Not to mention the fundamental difference in beliefs of being a Christian vs what the Democratic Party says is acceptable in this world.

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You people act like our country has never been run by Democrats before.

By my count, we're still pretty darn free. When I woke up and walked outside on this beautiful Saturday morning, this didn't feel much like communist China.

What are all these mythical ways the Democrats have stolen our freedoms in the Carter, Clinton, and Obama presidencies?

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Have you been to China? Chinese people are able to walk outside and go to equivalent places (stores, restaurants, etc. ) that you can. I have quite a few close friends that are Chinese and live in China. They all have "side" businesses. I often say the Chinese (Individual) are more capitalistic than most other countries. However their government controls way too much.

DrummerboyWolf said:

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Unfortunately this election is a choice between Good and Evil. Either you are on the side of Freedom and the Constitution or you want tyranny. Pretty simple.

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Which one is which?

Mormad said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Unfortunately this election is a choice between Good and Evil. Either you are on the side of Freedom and the Constitution or you want tyranny. Pretty simple.

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Lord have mercy.

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That's the first time I've seen that argument from the right. I've read that from the left a gazillionbillion times per day.

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This is maybe the 5th time he's posted this exact sentiment.
While more common on the left, I'm seeing this on the right now pretty frequently. I saw a video yesterday of a Proud boy claiming the "war" is going to start of Trump loses.
Honestly, regardless of who wins I'm worried about violence. The rhetoric on both sides is intense, and deranged. Multiple armed groups, right, left, and other seem to be "prepping".

GuerrillaPack said:

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Civilized said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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How has Trump "threatened" the Leftist Establishment Lamestream media? Calling them out as the LIARS that they are is not a "threat". Trump is not trying to silence them or stop their right to speak. That is what the Left does. The Left (e.g., Big Tech) are the ones banning and censoring and silencing conservatives and right-wing press. As usual, the Left projects the crimes that THEY are committing, and accuses others of what THEY are doing.

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Big Tech is private, GP. They can conduct their businesses as they see fit.

Freedom of the press is the responsibility of the government, not private industry.

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Of course I understand, in general, that a private website can censor whoever they want and not be in violation of any laws. But this is NOT the case with the Big Tech social media companies. Per Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, in order to maintain immunity they are not able to censor users for their views and "edit content" (in which they act as a publisher). Per this law, Big Tech is supposed to act as a public commons and allow all views, and not censor and edit content and act as publishers.

But even putting the issue of the legality or illegality of this censorship aside...my main point is that the communist Left does not support freedom of speech. Wherever they get power, they will enact policies and laws to censor the right-wing.

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You don't understand section 230. There is no nuetrality requirement. Repeal of section 230 brings us into a world with significantly more censorship, not less. Without section 230, James would have to shut down the water cooler, because he's be liable for everything we post.
You can and should criticize big tech for moderation bias. Boycott them and use alternative platforms. They will respond to their bottom line over anything. But section 230 has done more for open communication, particularly of fringe ideas (like flat earthism), than anything.

https://llgmke.com/why-almost-everything-you-read-criticizing-section-230-is-wrong/
"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

That's it. Nothing that requires neutrality or forbids bias. Nothing about sites being "public forums." No "platform/publisher" distinction."

Mormad said:

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Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Unfortunately this election is a choice between Good and Evil. Either you are on the side of Freedom and the Constitution or you want tyranny. Pretty simple.

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Lord have mercy.

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That's the first time I've seen that argument from the right. I've read that from the left a gazillionbillion times per day.

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You haven't seen it from me.

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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It's pretty clear Section 230 needs reform. Monopolies like Twitter and Facebook should not be able to silence political campaigns. I think the Water Cooler will be safe.

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Should foreign adversaries or political campaigns have carte blanche to use private company's platforms to conduct malicious disinformation campaigns?

Purely theoretically of course.

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That's not what's happening here. But I know. Russia!!!

Edit to add.... and what you want is for one political party to have carte Blanche to use social media monopolies to conduct malicious disinformation campaigns. Purely obvious, of course.

packgrad said:

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It's pretty clear Section 230 needs reform. Monopolies like Twitter and Facebook should not be able to silence political campaigns. I think the Water Cooler will be safe.

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They aren't monopolies though. Twitter and Facebook are themselves competitors as is every other social media platform. There are conservative alternatives and those who have absolutely zero moderation. You can work to make those more popular. I see conservatives advocating for Parler all the time and it's growing.
You are asking private entities to be forced to host political content. That in of itself is regulation of speech. Keep the government out of this.

IseWolf22 said:

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packgrad said:

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It's pretty clear Section 230 needs reform. Monopolies like Twitter and Facebook should not be able to silence political campaigns. I think the Water Cooler will be safe.

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They aren't monopolies though. Twitter and Facebook are themselves competitors as is every other social media platform. There are conservative alternatives and those who have absolutely zero moderation. You can work to make those more popular. I see conservatives advocating for Parler all the time and it's growing.
You are asking private entities to be forced to host political content. That in of itself is regulation of speech. Keep the government out of this.

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I don't disagree with your premise. Less government in private business is always good. But having said that, when they are banning and throttling views that the company does not want people to see or here because of their own political views, then that is not freedom of speech. These companies were built on that they were a platform and not a publisher for the free exchange of speech and ideas, but now that is not the case. The big tech companies have become big by buying out all their competition.

Jonathan Turley had a good view of this the other day and he is liberal. He said it's like the phone company listening in on your call then stopping it because they don't like what you are saying.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hunter-biden-computer-facebook-trump-censorship-scandal-jonathan-turley

DrummerboyWolf said:

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Jonathan Turley had a good view of this the other day and he is liberal. He said it's like the phone company listening in on your call then stopping it because they don't like what you are saying.

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Highly imperfect analogy.

On a phone call there is the presumption of privacy. Listening in on a phone conversation implies covert monitoring and deception that does not apply to social media.

Also the phone company does not make you sign a user agreement indicating that out of consideration for the company allowing you to use their platform, you agree that speech over the phone on their network may be regulated and that certain types of speech will not be allowed. Social media does do this, and users agree to terms prior to beginning to use the platform.

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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It's pretty clear Section 230 needs reform. Monopolies like Twitter and Facebook should not be able to silence political campaigns. I think the Water Cooler will be safe.

---

Should foreign adversaries or political campaigns have carte blanche to use private company's platforms to conduct malicious disinformation campaigns?

Purely theoretically of course.

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That's not what's happening here. But I know. Russia!!!

Edit to add.... and what you want is for one political party to have carte Blanche to use social media monopolies to conduct malicious disinformation campaigns. Purely obvious, of course.

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Social media is not monopolistic.

Thanks for telling me what I want though, I was having trouble working through that till you stepped in to help.

Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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TraCha4 said:

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With everything that we have gone through in 2020, it's amazing how some people can't see how quickly your freedom can be taken away with a country run by Democrats.

Not to mention the fundamental difference in beliefs of being a Christian vs what the Democratic Party says is acceptable in this world.

---

You people act like our country has never been run by Democrats before.

By my count, we're still pretty darn free. When I woke up and walked outside on this beautiful Saturday morning, this didn't feel much like communist China.

What are all these mythical ways the Democrats have stolen our freedoms in the Carter, Clinton, and Obama presidencies?

---

Have you been to China? Chinese people are able to walk outside and go to equivalent places (stores, restaurants, etc. ) that you can. I have quite a few close friends that are Chinese and live in China. They all have "side" businesses. I often say the Chinese (Individual) are more capitalistic than most other countries. However their government controls way too much.

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I have never been to China; however, I have worked closely with Chinese companies in supply chain. Everyone has an opinion of their dealings with China or the people. I know we are working everyday to ELIMINATE our reliance on Chinese supply chain. Take that how you would like. I know the reason for our goal. It has nothing to do with them being more capitalistic than us, because they are not! At least, that is true with who we deal with.

caryking said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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TraCha4 said:

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With everything that we have gone through in 2020, it's amazing how some people can't see how quickly your freedom can be taken away with a country run by Democrats.

Not to mention the fundamental difference in beliefs of being a Christian vs what the Democratic Party says is acceptable in this world.

---

You people act like our country has never been run by Democrats before.

By my count, we're still pretty darn free. When I woke up and walked outside on this beautiful Saturday morning, this didn't feel much like communist China.

What are all these mythical ways the Democrats have stolen our freedoms in the Carter, Clinton, and Obama presidencies?

---

Have you been to China? Chinese people are able to walk outside and go to equivalent places (stores, restaurants, etc. ) that you can. I have quite a few close friends that are Chinese and live in China. They all have "side" businesses. I often say the Chinese (Individual) are more capitalistic than most other countries. However their government controls way too much.

---

I have never been to China; however, I have worked closely with Chinese companies in supply chain. Everyone has an opinion of their dealings with China or the people. I know we are working everyday to ELIMINATE our reliance on Chinese supply chain. Take that how you would like. I know the reason for our goal. It has nothing to do with them being more capitalistic than us, because they are not! At least, that is true with who we deal with.

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China of course is not. My comment was in reference to the poster saying he walked outside today and did not feel like communist China. I have walked outside many times in China and felt no different than I do when I walk outside in the US. The difference is the government control which is what people are against. The dems seem to be leading the country down the path of more government control.

Nothing going on in China at all. Only about 3 million Uighur Muslims being held in "vocational education and training centers." Nothing to see here. Everything is good with the CCP in charge.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/if-not-a-genocide-something-close-to-it-going-on-in-china-us-national-security-adviser-warns-taiwan-of-chinese-invasion

"There could be as many as 3 million Uighur Muslims detained in the secret re-education camps, according to Randall Schriver, former U.S. assistant secretary of defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs."

"O'Brien said, "The Chinese are literally shaving the heads of Uighur women and making hair products and sending them to the United States."

That's okay.

China's corrupt politicians have lots and lots of money to buy off corrupt American politicians, so we don't really care about things like this.

Big tech controlling the narrative.

Early voting results that are coming in show the polls are fake. For example, Republicans are currently leading in the early voting results in Michigan -- which goes against the traditional view that Democrats are favored in the early voting, and then Republicans are favored in voting on Election day.

https://www.toptradeguru.com/news/dems-in-absolute-panic-as-early-data-shatters-narrative-in-key-states/

Quote:

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Dems in Absolute Panic As Early Data Shatters Narrative in Key States

[...]

Michigan is chief among the Democrats' worries. With 25% of the total vote in, compared to 2016, Republicans have a slim advantage heading into Election Day. It's expected a rush of ballots from Republicans, leerier of mail voting, will be cast in-person on Nov. 3.

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Via GateWay Pundit

Compare the enormous crowds of tens of thousand at Trump's rallies to the absolutely pathetic crowds of a few dozen in cars at Biden's. The communist Lamestream media polls are a joke.

Early voting results also looking good for Trump in NC and Florida.



Found this on the main/biggest Donald Trump forum on the internet, which replaced the "The Donald" forum that was on Reddit before they were banned:

https://thedonald.win/

This site is an outstanding source for the latest news on the election.

Latest prediction. We will see how close I get. Could be slightly less for Trump but I'm bullish. I see a Trump victory regardless.


<div align="center"><a href="https://www.270towin.com/maps/yNAen"><img src="" width="800"></a><br><small><img style="vertical-align:middle;" src="" alt="" /> Click the map to create your own at <a href="https://www.270towin.com/maps/yNAen">270toWin.com</a></small></div>

How are you making these maps?

Do you just click in the states you think the Trump and Biden will take?

Civilized said:

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How are you making these maps?

Do you just click in the states you think the Trump and Biden will take?

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Go to 270towin.com. Fill the map out how you like. Then click share the map and copy the url. When you paste it into the post the map pops up.

I'm sticking my neck out here but I feel pretty good about the prediction. Also.... battleground margins roughly...

AZ- Trump +3
FL- Trump +3
NC- Trump +4
PA- Trump +1
NH- Trump +0.5
MI- Trump +1.5
WI- Trump +1.5
MN- Trump +0.5
NV- Biden +2

Honestly I'm getting very specific here and could be way off but the overall map is the point.