RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

I think today's testimony will be the most important yet, due to the fact that Sondland is the one who was the middleman during most of these issues. He's already come out and said that it was a quid pro quo / bribery, so today's testimony will be interesting.

It also comes down to if you feel it's appropriate for the President to use military aid and a visit to the White House as a precondition for another country to do his (not the United States) bidding. For the discussion of President Trump's concern of corruption, it's interesting that he / his Justice Department hasn't appeared to focus on corruption in any other country, especially Russia where it's known to be prevalent and run by Oligarchs.

The House has done a lot as mentioned, the majority of which have not been looked at by the Senate. They can't be the only grown-ups in the room and expected to take up things from the Senate without any reciprocation.

cowboypack02 said:

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statefan91 said:

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Sounds good - as long as Voter ID accepts student ID cards, military ID cards, state issued ID cards, and there is a free program for anyone that wants an ID card that doesn't have one. Otherwise it's a poll tax.

Having one day as a Federal Holiday for voting doesn't make sense, unless you would like to disenfranchise our Police, Fire, EMS, Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons, etc. from being able to vote because they don't have that day off. Unless you're suggesting that we suspend all those services for that day?

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Everyone should be able to get a ID as long as they go get one. North Carolina actually offered that as part of the voter ID law, but it seems actually asking someone to get an ID was racist for some reason.

Your argument about having a holday for voting is exactly my point in not needing a holiday for voting. If people actually want to vote then they will take time on any day of the 2 to 2.5 weeks before the actual date to vote. Why do we need a holiday too?

---

I know this will come across as rude and I don't intend it to, but your situation is not the same as others. You may work a normal job, but many others don't. Many others work multiple jobs, odd hours, etc. The normal office worker is not the norm for everyone, and everyone should have an opportunity to vote. I agree with early voting and the 2, 2.5 weeks it's available. I also think it should be a Federal Holiday.

Sondland isn't casting much doubt with his testimony this morning. I wonder how he becomes the next anti-Trump, "I've never met him" character?

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

---

I understand the sentiment to a point since the new House was seated in January, but what about the two years prior when the GOP controlled both Chambers?

Sondland's testimony is interesting. Going heavy on that he was keeping EVERYONE in the loop - State Department, Pompeo, Giuliani, Mulvaney, etc. Said he was given direction from President to work through Giuliani with regards to Ukraine and follow his instructions.

Pretty damning since Giuliani is President's personal attorney, worked to unseat the previous Ambassador, has business contacts in Ukraine, etc.

PackBacker07 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

---

I understand the sentiment to a point since the new House was seated in January, but what about the two years prior when the GOP controlled both Chambers?

---

Agree. Point being, NOBODY does the work of the people. Not the left and not the right. I would be saying the same thing we're the roles reversed at this time. Sadly, this will continue no matter who is president. Hell, if I got paid hundreds of thousands a year to "work" 4 months a year and still so nothing, I would be crazy not to.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

---

I understand the sentiment to a point since the new House was seated in January, but what about the two years prior when the GOP controlled both Chambers?

---

Agree. Point being, NOBODY does the work of the people. Not the left and not the right. I would be saying the same thing we're the roles reversed at this time. Sadly, this will continue no matter who is president. Hell, if I got paid hundreds of thousands a year to "work" 4 months a year and still so nothing, I would be crazy not to.

---

The House, since coming under Democratic control, has passed 250+ bill. That's doing the work of the people. You can only say both sides are the same if you ignore that.

Ground_Chuck said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

---

I understand the sentiment to a point since the new House was seated in January, but what about the two years prior when the GOP controlled both Chambers?

---

Agree. Point being, NOBODY does the work of the people. Not the left and not the right. I would be saying the same thing we're the roles reversed at this time. Sadly, this will continue no matter who is president. Hell, if I got paid hundreds of thousands a year to "work" 4 months a year and still so nothing, I would be crazy not to.

---

The House, since coming under Democratic control, has passed 250+ bill. That's doing the work of the people. You can only say both sides are the same if you ignore that.

---

I agree with your overall point, but the actual number of meaningful, bipartisan legislation is much less than 250. A lot of the bills passed by Democrats are for things that Republicans would never support and will not pass a senate vote anyways.

The House majority passing purely symbolic bills, that they know will never pass the senate or presidential veto, is a time honored tradition in both parties.

Ground_Chuck said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

PackBacker07 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GoPack2008 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Well, Ms. Williams and Lt. Col. Vendman have finished up. Nothing new that I heard from either. Still waiting for Schiff to admit he knows who the whistleblower is but he keeps denying he knows when he does know. Onto round 2 for the day which will probably be as interesting as paint drying. Oh well, thanks Congres, right and left, for continuing to do your own stuff instead of the work of the people.

---

A lot of people support these hearings.

Just because you don't think these are important or interesting doesn't mean that Congress isn't doing the work of the people.

---

USMCA, military raises, aid to Ukraine, etc. All things sitting there because they are "doing the work of the people."

---

These hearings shouldn't be necessary but are.

---

Your opinion is they are. My opinion is they aren't. Doesn't change the fact that things that should be getting done aren't because of this 3 year long and counting crap. Again, you age your opinion and I have mine. Fact remains, things that should be getting done aren't and has been reported by multiple sources, ole Nancy is using USMCA against her own members to be them to vote for impeachment when it gets to that point.

---

I understand the sentiment to a point since the new House was seated in January, but what about the two years prior when the GOP controlled both Chambers?

---

Agree. Point being, NOBODY does the work of the people. Not the left and not the right. I would be saying the same thing we're the roles reversed at this time. Sadly, this will continue no matter who is president. Hell, if I got paid hundreds of thousands a year to "work" 4 months a year and still so nothing, I would be crazy not to.

---

The House, since coming under Democratic control, has passed 250+ bill. That's doing the work of the people. You can only say both sides are the same if you ignore that.

---

Republicans did the same under Obama and the Senate didn't take them up. Both sides are the same. It's a matter of if you want to see both sides or just a one sided view. I blame them both, always have and always will. Both sides are one in the same and both sides use the same argument when they aren't in control of the presidency. Nancy uses the "The Senate won't pass anything, we've passed so and so many bills in the house" argument just as Paul Ryan did back under Obama. It doesn't matter. If you want to do the work of the people, you have to be willing to pass bills that the Senate will give a chance to. Paul Ryan and the republicans lacked that ability or want to under Obama and Pelosi and the Democrats lack that ability under Trump.

You could argue they are symbolic, but many of them are things that poll very well across party lines. Whether or not Republicans will sign on to them is their choice, but it's not like everything they're passing is abhorrent to Republicans and their constituents

• Drug Pricing Bill - ...savings resulting from a provision requiring manufacturers of certain drugs to negotiate prices with the federal government based on average prices internationally
• Voting Rights
• SHIELD Act - reporting of international interference
• The For The People Act would make Election Day a federal holiday, expand voter registration, restrict the removal of voters from voter rolls, and create programs to encourage small-dollar political donations.
• The VAWA Reauthorization Act would reauthorize the 1994 Violence Against Women Act, which protects victims on domestic violence, for five years.
• The Equality Act would protect LGBTQ people from discrimination in housing, the workplace and public accommodations.

I don't know what bills are being held up in the House that Senate has already passed. NAFTA stays in effect until USMCA is ratified.

statefan91 said:

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You could argue they are symbolic, but many of them are things that poll very well across party lines. Whether or not Republicans will sign on to them is their choice, but it's not like everything they're passing is abhorrent to Republicans and their constituents

• Drug Pricing Bill - ...savings resulting from a provision requiring manufacturers of certain drugs to negotiate prices with the federal government based on average prices internationally
• Voting Rights
• SHIELD Act - reporting of international interference
• The For The People Act would make Election Day a federal holiday, expand voter registration, restrict the removal of voters from voter rolls, and create programs to encourage small-dollar political donations.
• The VAWA Reauthorization Act would reauthorize the 1994 Violence Against Women Act, which protects victims on domestic violence, for five years.
• The Equality Act would protect LGBTQ people from discrimination in housing, the workplace and public accommodations.

I don't know what bills are being held up in the House that Senate has already passed. NAFTA stays in effect until USMCA is ratified.

---

I'm not familiar with the minutia of most of these and the devil is always in the details. For example, I'm in favor of a Federal holiday for elections, but I know a dozen other provisions are embedded.

The equality act, as it's currently written, opens up a massive can of worms. People will be litigating it for over a decade. Now that "sex" has expanded to gender identity, the act will lead to all types of applications that the average voter hasn't thought through. Canada has had a number of weird cases already from a law similar to this.

In general I agree that McConnell and the Senate have obstructed and sat on their hands. But I also would say that the house has certainly not handed them 250+ bills that are good policy and shouldn't be opposed.

Fair enough, agree that the devil is in the details.

House judiciary committee also just passed a Cannabis decriminalization bill.

The bill would remove marijuana from the list of federally controlled substances, allow states to set their own marijuana policy and require federal courts to expunge prior convictions for marijuana offenses. A 5% tax on marijuana products would also establish a trust fund for programs designed to help people disproportionately impacted by the "war on drugs," including job training and treatment for substance abuse.

Unless some type of bombshell is yet to be released, I don't see this impeachment stuff going anywhere. The house will vote to impeach trump, that is not in question. The Senate will vote against it and that is not in question. What may be and I believe is in question, is how will it affect the election in 2020? From some recent polls, the Democrats may want to pay attention because in some battleground states, the needle is actually moving in favor of Trump. I've said from the beginning this would re-elect Trump and it just may.

My hope is that this is never done again in such a partisan way after this time. Maybe both sides will wake up and see that it's a ****y way to act when you don't get your way. Trump isn't a bright guy, he gets on my last nerve but so far, there is no smoking gun to impeach him. Look at it partisan if you like but nothing has been said yet that is impeachment worthy.

Yes, I know some on here will scream but so and so felt this or thought that but those are opinions not facts. If the Democrats want a chance to win in 2020, maybe they should stop what isn't working and try to find what will.

statefan91 said:

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Fair enough, agree that the devil is in the details.

House judiciary committee also just passed a Cannabis decriminalization bill.

The bill would remove marijuana from the list of federally controlled substances, allow states to set their own marijuana policy and require federal courts to expunge prior convictions for marijuana offenses. A 5% tax on marijuana products would also establish a trust fund for programs designed to help people disproportionately impacted by the "war on drugs," including job training and treatment for substance abuse.

---

I would support that. Although the earmarking of the tax will turn off some Libertarian/Conservatives. There should be some national tax, but states will need to make sure that Federal + State level taxes don't just drive it right back to the black market. Over taxation and regulation is already a problem in California.

I don't think it's been a problem so far in Colorado, as an example:

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

Back on the topic of impeachment, it feels like Republicans are basically saying "unless you have a recording of Trump saying it's a quid pro quo we don't care" and then if there was a recording they'd say it's fake news.

statefan91 said:

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I don't think it's been a problem so far in Colorado, as an example:

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

Back on the topic of impeachment, it feels like Republicans are basically saying "unless you have a recording of Trump saying it's a quid pro quo we don't care" and then if there was a recording they'd say it's fake news.

---

I like this topic more haha.

And yes Colorado is a model. They are better governed than California. Even beyond taxes the regulatory burdens imposed in California just drive a lot of legitimate business to the black market.

Fiona Hill has been a very impressive witness. I think she would make a good National Security Advisor for a future President.

I assume this is the end of the hearings. As someone who watched these hearings with an open mind, I've seen nothing that has pushed me over to the impeachment side of things. Has there been things that weren't "normal" or "status quo"? Certainly there has been. Have there been things I would have done differently? No doubt about it!

When these hearings started it was quid pro quo, then it was bribery, then it was abuse of power and on and on and on. The Democrats have grasped at every single thing they could and have yet, at least for my mind, given me anything to hang my hat on and say yes, I believe he should be impeached. I've heard a lot of hearsay and I felt this or that but I just haven't heard or seen, clear fact evidence that leads me to impeachment.

Now I know some on here and many in the country will scream from the mountain tops but what about this or that. My question will remain the same. Is the what about this or that really how you are thinking or have you entered the debate with an already assumed and made up mind? I don't like Donald Trump. I never have. I think he has done good things for the country and bad things as well. I didn't vote for him and won't vote for him next year. Not because he should be impeached, but because I don't agree with many of his policies and personally, just don't like the guy. That doesn't mean he should be impeached. I hope this mess ends soon but I see it getting drug out for a while in the Senate and probably becoming more of a ****show then it already has been.

Sorry to reply to myself but this is a good example of her responses:

Also thought this was interesting. At the end of the day, incentivizing a foreign country to investigate your leading political rival for your position with US Military Aid / Trade Negotiations is impeachable, in my opinion. Anyone pretending it's not would like really silly had the roles been reversed and Obama was doing the same.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-marine-one-departure-67/

Quote:

---

Q Mr. President, what exactly did you hope Zelensky would do about the Bidens after your phone call? Exactly.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I would think that, if they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer.
They should investigate the Bidens, because how does a company that's newly formed and all these companies, if you look at
And, by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with with Ukraine.
So, I would say that President Zelensky if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens. Because nobody has any doubt that they weren't crooked. That was a crooked deal 100 percent. He had no knowledge of energy; didn't know the first thing about it. All of a sudden, he is getting $50,000 a month, plus a lot of other things. Nobody has any doubt.
And they got rid of a prosecutor who was a very tough prosecutor. They got rid of him. Now they're trying to make it the opposite way. But they got rid
So, if I were the President, I would certainly recommend that of Ukraine.

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I think people are looking for a specific law that was broken by Trump. But the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" never meant that specific, proven violations of the law occurred. It was added into the constitution to grant congress leeway to impeach for undefined offenses that went against the nation's conscious.

Technically the constitution says - "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

It's clearly bribery, except for lack of President Trump explicitly saying "I'm going to bribe you with the $400 military aid"

statefan91 said:

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Technically the constitution says - "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

It's clearly bribery, except for lack of President Trump explicitly saying "I'm going to bribe you with the $400 military aid"

---

Exactly; and if that were the standard (to say it), then nobody would have ever committed bribery ever.

The word bribery being used today is not the same meaning as originally used it was changed some 50 years later. Rush Limbaugh addressed this yesterday. The aid was never held up but what Biden did was absolutely bribery to cover up criminals (Soros ) etc !

The aid was held up until early September when the White House found out about the whistleblower report...if not for the whistleblower who knows how long it would have been held.

PackProwl63 said:

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The word bribery being used today is not the same meaning as originally used it was changed some 50 years later. Rush Limbaugh addressed this yesterday. The aid was never held up but what Biden did was absolutely bribery to cover up criminals (Soros ) etc !

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If you are talking about Ukraine getting rid of the corrupt prosecutor that was backed up by the EU. It wasn't just Biden. And if you are getting your news from Rush you might as well get it from Hannity.


Also interesting that now Nunes has been brought into the Rudy/Pompeo angle of the query.

The aid was held up until around Sept 9th when, guess what? The WH found out about the whistleblowers report. That's when the aid was released.

PackProwl63 said:

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The word bribery being used today is not the same meaning as originally used it was changed some 50 years later. Rush Limbaugh addressed this yesterday. The aid was never held up but what Biden did was absolutely bribery to cover up criminals (Soros ) etc !

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That crackhead (limbaugh) on the rock again?

PackProwl63 said:

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The word bribery being used today is not the same meaning as originally used it was changed some 50 years later. Rush Limbaugh addressed this yesterday. The aid was never held up but what Biden did was absolutely bribery to cover up criminals (Soros ) etc !

---

Boogeyman George Soros! Come on people...

I have to say it's really a testament to Trump's abilities that he has turned the Republican party and Conservative media into Russia supporters in 3 short years.

So several Dems are now saying they want to go the sensure route and not the impeachment route. This has become an even bigger ****show then I ever thought it would. The Dems re-elect Trump campaign is in full swing.

I honestly don't think he's all there mentally and don't want to see what he's tweeting 4 years from now...

And now he's talking about not being able to say Happy Thanksgiving. There is a was on Thanksgiving that no one knew about.